aubearcat 2,137 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 If you care, you sound more "libertarian" than liberal. Just curious, your thoughts on the legalization of: Cocaine, heroin, crack, steroids, hash, amphetamines, I am sure there is more... I'll take a stab at this one. I do not think any rational person condones the usage of such drugs, or the resultant addiction. However, it is hard to argue for their continued criminalization when the results of it are obvious. Criminalized drugs have led to the rise of street gangs, massive law enforcement growth and spending, and a prison population that shows no signs of decreasing substantially anytime soon. For international effects, look at Mexico and the rest of Central America. I do not like those drugs, but I dislike the effects of their criminalization even more. These effects might be acceptable if drug prohibition were actually accomplishing something. Instead, I see lives continuing to be ruined by drug addiction, incarceration, or both. We are long overdue for nationwide drug policy reform, and Colorado is more of a step in the right direction than it is the wrong one. You make some good points. What all drugs do you feel we should decriminalize? Should the govt lower the strength of pot to the common 1960's level. Should we limit some of the products pot is put in; chocolate bars for example? Well, my thoughts on the decriminalization/legalization of all drugs, irrespective of their inherent dangers, is a Pandora's box that can't be opened. My tattoo artist and I had this discussion because she knows I'm a police officer and she's a devout libertarian if not a near anarchist. We like to exchange ideas and opinions and have friendly discussions and debates about different topics and this topic came up recently. My thoughts were that those who use those drugs would not be able to hold a job and make money to purchase legalized hard drugs. Her reply would be that the legalization would lower the price and ease of obtaining those drugs thus lowering crime and violence associated with them being illegal. Spend the money used to fight illegal drugs on rehab centers and such. My reply was, the drugs would have to be free because even if they're cheap, if you don't have a job to buy them, you're going to have to find a way to get the money to buy the drugs. Would those people be given an ebt type card so that they can basically be given their free drugs to prevent residual crimes of theft and the like. Black market dealers would remain and advertise their drugs as "better" than legalized drugs. Also, for rehab to work, one has to want to be rehabilitated. Many times, the punitive side of using drugs drives desire for rehabilitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,153 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Well, my thoughts on the decriminalization/legalization of all drugs, irrespective of their inherent dangers, is a Pandora's box that can't be opened. My tattoo artist and I had this discussion because she knows I'm a police officer and she's a devout libertarian if not a near anarchist. We like to exchange ideas and opinions and have friendly discussions and debates about different topics and this topic came up recently. My thoughts were that those who use those drugs would not be able to hold a job and make money to purchase legalized hard drugs. Her reply would be that the legalization would lower the price and ease of obtaining those drugs thus lowering crime and violence associated with them being illegal. Spend the money used to fight illegal drugs on rehab centers and such. My reply was, the drugs would have to be free because even if they're cheap, if you don't have a job to buy them, you're going to have to find a way to get the money to buy the drugs. Would those people be given an ebt type card so that they can basically be given their free drugs to prevent residual crimes of theft and the like. Black market dealers would remain and advertise their drugs as "better" than legalized drugs. Also, for rehab to work, one has to want to be rehabilitated. Many times, the punitive side of using drugs drives desire for rehabilitation. Here's a comedy article with some good info for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 If you care, you sound more "libertarian" than liberal. Just curious, your thoughts on the legalization of: Cocaine, heroin, crack, steroids, hash, amphetamines, I am sure there is more... I'll take a stab at this one. I do not think any rational person condones the usage of such drugs, or the resultant addiction. However, it is hard to argue for their continued criminalization when the results of it are obvious. Criminalized drugs have led to the rise of street gangs, massive law enforcement growth and spending, and a prison population that shows no signs of decreasing substantially anytime soon. For international effects, look at Mexico and the rest of Central America. I do not like those drugs, but I dislike the effects of their criminalization even more. These effects might be acceptable if drug prohibition were actually accomplishing something. Instead, I see lives continuing to be ruined by drug addiction, incarceration, or both. We are long overdue for nationwide drug policy reform, and Colorado is more of a step in the right direction than it is the wrong one. You make some good points. What all drugs do you feel we should decriminalize? Should the govt lower the strength of pot to the common 1960's level. Should we limit some of the products pot is put in; chocolate bars for example? Well, my thoughts on the decriminalization/legalization of all drugs, irrespective of their inherent dangers, is a Pandora's box that can't be opened. My tattoo artist and I had this discussion because she knows I'm a police officer and she's a devout libertarian if not a near anarchist. We like to exchange ideas and opinions and have friendly discussions and debates about different topics and this topic came up recently. My thoughts were that those who use those drugs would not be able to hold a job and make money to purchase legalized hard drugs. Her reply would be that the legalization would lower the price and ease of obtaining those drugs thus lowering crime and violence associated with them being illegal. Spend the money used to fight illegal drugs on rehab centers and such. My reply was, the drugs would have to be free because even if they're cheap, if you don't have a job to buy them, you're going to have to find a way to get the money to buy the drugs. Would those people be given an ebt type card so that they can basically be given their free drugs to prevent residual crimes of theft and the like. Black market dealers would remain and advertise their drugs as "better" than legalized drugs. Also, for rehab to work, one has to want to be rehabilitated. Many times, the punitive side of using drugs drives desire for rehabilitation. Do you truly believe that ALL people who use drugs are incapable of functioning in society? You do not understand that drug users are doctors, lawyers, Wall St. bankers, politicians, accountants, police officers, dental assistants, computer programmers, engineers, etc., etc., etc? Are you really suggesting that every dollar spent on drugs was obtained through criminal activity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUtiger98 24 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 There is a Pot Pavilion at the Denver County Fair, Check out the competitions. link So, if someone spends time at the Pot Pavilion before the the pie eating contest, are they disqualified for using PEDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,039 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 There is a Pot Pavilion at the Denver County Fair, Check out the competitions. :)/> link So, if someone spends time at the Pot Pavilion before the the pie eating contest, are they disqualified for using PEDs? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 There is a Pot Pavilion at the Denver County Fair, Check out the competitions. link So, if someone spends time at the Pot Pavilion before the the pie eating contest, are they disqualified for using PEDs? So that's how someone eats 51 hotdogs in five minutes. The whole competitive eating thing makes sense now. Thanks 98! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubearcat 2,137 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 If you care, you sound more "libertarian" than liberal. Just curious, your thoughts on the legalization of: Cocaine, heroin, crack, steroids, hash, amphetamines, I am sure there is more... I'll take a stab at this one. I do not think any rational person condones the usage of such drugs, or the resultant addiction. However, it is hard to argue for their continued criminalization when the results of it are obvious. Criminalized drugs have led to the rise of street gangs, massive law enforcement growth and spending, and a prison population that shows no signs of decreasing substantially anytime soon. For international effects, look at Mexico and the rest of Central America. I do not like those drugs, but I dislike the effects of their criminalization even more. These effects might be acceptable if drug prohibition were actually accomplishing something. Instead, I see lives continuing to be ruined by drug addiction, incarceration, or both. We are long overdue for nationwide drug policy reform, and Colorado is more of a step in the right direction than it is the wrong one. You make some good points. What all drugs do you feel we should decriminalize? Should the govt lower the strength of pot to the common 1960's level. Should we limit some of the products pot is put in; chocolate bars for example? Well, my thoughts on the decriminalization/legalization of all drugs, irrespective of their inherent dangers, is a Pandora's box that can't be opened. My tattoo artist and I had this discussion because she knows I'm a police officer and she's a devout libertarian if not a near anarchist. We like to exchange ideas and opinions and have friendly discussions and debates about different topics and this topic came up recently. My thoughts were that those who use those drugs would not be able to hold a job and make money to purchase legalized hard drugs. Her reply would be that the legalization would lower the price and ease of obtaining those drugs thus lowering crime and violence associated with them being illegal. Spend the money used to fight illegal drugs on rehab centers and such. My reply was, the drugs would have to be free because even if they're cheap, if you don't have a job to buy them, you're going to have to find a way to get the money to buy the drugs. Would those people be given an ebt type card so that they can basically be given their free drugs to prevent residual crimes of theft and the like. Black market dealers would remain and advertise their drugs as "better" than legalized drugs. Also, for rehab to work, one has to want to be rehabilitated. Many times, the punitive side of using drugs drives desire for rehabilitation. Do you truly believe that ALL people who use drugs are incapable of functioning in society? You do not understand that drug users are doctors, lawyers, Wall St. bankers, politicians, accountants, police officers, dental assistants, computer programmers, engineers, etc., etc., etc? Are you really suggesting that every dollar spent on drugs was obtained through criminal activity? I will say, from my experience, that about 90-95% of heroin addicts are not able to hold a job because of the need (and there is a physiological NEED)to dose/get high. Meth users because of the side effects (paranoia/hallucinations/violence)are probably equally as high. There can be "functioning" crack users (and I've had, unfortunately, a family member addicted to crack who was semi-functioning), but not on a very consistent basis. For them you're looking at a 60-40 or 50-50 rate depending on the user. That same number with pills. Are there professionals that use hard drugs and are able to function within societal norms, yes, but they are the minority. The question I have for you is, have you had any in depth interaction with heroin addicts or meth, cocaine, pill, etc. addicts? I have. Most if not all will tell you that illegal drugs outside of marihuana should NOT be legalized. They speak of how they began by smoking weed for fun and "friends" they made while smoking suggested they try this drug or that drug to fit in. They did so and are now in.a downward spiral of addiction and suffering. I am by most opinions, probably, considering a liberal or bleeding heart in my profession because I feel for these people more than a number or criminal element. I am neutral on the legalization of marihuana but that is the very furthest the legalization of illegal drugs should go. Also, ask the family member of an addict if they believe all drugs should be legal. If all drugs were made legal here, the burden put on non-users would be so catastrophic, America would essentially become a third world nation. You may believe marihuana is harmless, but surely, you can't rationally believe that legalization of all drugs would reduce crime and make things more peaceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 aubearcat......good posts, but remember what Forrest Gump said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubearcat 2,137 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 aubearcat......good posts, but remember what Forrest Gump said. Indeed. However, I try to be as open minded I can and listen to opposing opinions, but this one area I feel pretty firm that I'll never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU-24 3,103 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 aubearcat......good posts, but remember what Forrest Gump said. Indeed. However, I try to be as open minded I can and listen to opposing opinions, but this one area I feel pretty firm that I'll never change. You mean you don't want the guy working on your car break system legally smoking dope on his smoke breaks? What's the matter with you anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,153 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Bump. Relevant article Cracked has been doing some very good personal experience articles lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,392 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 aubearcat......good posts, but remember what Forrest Gump said. Paragraphs are good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan4Auburn 1,626 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 aubearcat......good posts, but remember what Forrest Gump said. Indeed. However, I try to be as open minded I can and listen to opposing opinions, but this one area I feel pretty firm that I'll never change. You mean you don't want the guy working on your car break system legally smoking dope on his smoke breaks? What's the matter with you anyway? Well, I don't want them them knocking back beers or taking shots either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 "Do you truly believe that ALL people who use drugs are incapable of functioning in society? You do not understand that drug users are doctors, lawyers, Wall St. bankers, politicians, accountants, police officers, dental assistants, computer programmers, engineers, etc., etc., etc? Are you really suggesting that every dollar spent on drugs was obtained through criminal activity?" Sadly, this is true. The mega winner in today's world is big pharma. Prescription drug use is so prevalent traces of valium and zanex and other physcotropic drugs are showing up in water samples in the major estuaries around the country. The thing I find troubling about legalization in Colorado is that instead of curtailing black market activities it has enhanced them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,153 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The thing I find troubling about legalization in Colorado is that instead of curtailing black market activities it has enhanced them. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The thing I find troubling about legalization in Colorado is that instead of curtailing black market activities it has enhanced them. Link? Are you being argumentative or simply lazy? This stuff is available for everyone to google http://www.thecannab...-growing/17245/ “I don’t know who is buying for recreational use at dispensaries unless it’s white, middle-class people and out-of-towners,” Rudy Reddog Balles, a longtime community activist and mediator. “Everyone I know still has the guy on the street that they hook up with.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,153 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The thing I find troubling about legalization in Colorado is that instead of curtailing black market activities it has enhanced them. Link? Are you being argumentative or simply lazy? This stuff is available for everyone to google http://www.thecannabist.co/2014/07/30/colorado-marijuana-black-market-pot-illegal-marijuana-growing/17245/ I am at work. Why the hostility, Blu? Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The thing I find troubling about legalization in Colorado is that instead of curtailing black market activities it has enhanced them. Link? Are you being argumentative or simply lazy? This stuff is available for everyone to google http://www.thecannab...-growing/17245/ I am at work. Why the hostility, Blu? Thanks for the link. Sorry, I didn't realize you were restricted on the user of your computer. No hostility here, bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,153 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 All good. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,392 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The thing I find troubling about legalization in Colorado is that instead of curtailing black market activities it has enhanced them. Link? Are you being argumentative or simply lazy? This stuff is available for everyone to google http://www.thecannab...-growing/17245/ I am at work. Why the hostility, Blu? Thanks for the link. Sorry, I didn't realize you were restricted on the user of your computer. No hostility here, bud. Of course not. Respectful is your default reaction. :-\ :-\ :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The thing I find troubling about legalization in Colorado is that instead of curtailing black market activities it has enhanced them. Link? Are you being argumentative or simply lazy? This stuff is available for everyone to google http://www.thecannab...-growing/17245/ I am at work. Why the hostility, Blu? Thanks for the link. Sorry, I didn't realize you were restricted on the user of your computer. No hostility here, bud. Of course not. Respectful is your default reaction. :-\ :-\ :-\ Well, in your case not even that and no apologies forthcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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