2 NYPD cops shot and killed

[homersapien 11,440]

cole256....not disagreeing so much because I think we are in agreement on the big stage of things but

1. I don't think there was intent to kill Garner.

2 The evidence shows the cop killed Brown in self defense as Brown lunged for his gun.

Neither was outright executed in cold blood.

But then, no one has suggested that.

That is factually inaccurate. Many in the media intimated as much.

Link please.

(Actually I was referring to this forum. But I would like to know who in the media has proposed that.)

http://www.mediaite....n-was-murdered/

I tried to find interviews on MSNBC that have apparently been pulled or at least not archived. In those interviews the same conclusion was reached. I also saw some on MSM outlets as I was home sick that day and basically watched hours of broadcast. It caused me to cite on this very forum that all facts were not out in the case and people should withhold judgement until discovery.

With regard to the forum, I did think there were some who stated Brown was murdered. I could be wrong.

Arguably he could have been found guilty of murder other than 1st degree. That's not what I think happened but it certainly wasn't off the table at the time.

But not to be picky, the phrase in question here is "outright(sic) executed in cold blood"

So, is that all you've got? Donna Brazille calling it murder? Anyone say he was "executed in cold blood".

Not to put words in PT's mouth but, I think his distinction is murder/execution vs. killed in the line of duty. And yes, that's all I have with regards to a link at present. You can't fault networks for pulling this unfortunate commentary. Try to find the Donna Brazile commentary on CNN. Good luck!

But modifying the statement at issue is putting words into PT's mouth. If he meant something else, he should have used different words.

[homersapien 11,440]

I don't know what he's smiling about but he certainly smiled and waved. You're part of a crew and for whatever reason a man you wanted to take in is dead what good explanation do you have for smiling and waving at a camera at a time when everybody is screaming oh my God I think he's dead?

Your argument certainly sounds as if you do. I'm sorry cole but, you are echoing an MSNBC talking point. Garner was not pronounced dead until later in the ambulance.

So the fact he was merely being loaded into an ambulance - instead of already being dead - makes all the difference in the cop's jovial behavior? :-\

And I think the point here is not to imply the cop meant to kill Garner, but was simply exhibiting a cavalier, careless attitude about it. A more appropriate reaction would have been concern about Garner and perhaps contemplating his possible responsibility for it.

The fact he can smile and joke is revealing about his attitude if not the entire force.

I thought the point was he had no idea Garner was dead?

You apparently missed the point. The point is the mind set of the officer at the time.

You are trying to fabricate a distinction between knowing he was dead and knowing he was been loaded into an ambulance because he was in severe respiratory stress. That's moot as far as the point is concerned.

Did I? If I am a cop that killed a man I surely feel remorse. But if that man is taken for medical attention and I have no idea he is in grave danger I might feel differently. That is my point. BTW, I did not ask cole but I will ask you. Do you have a link to the officer laughing, smiling, waving to the cameras, etc.?

Really? So if you choke this guy to the point where he needs emergency medical attention you shouldn't feel any remorse?

That's exactly the problem we are talking about.

And no, I don't have any links. I don't know for sure if it actually happened or not. I am arguing a hypothetical just like you are.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

cole256....not disagreeing so much because I think we are in agreement on the big stage of things but

1. I don't think there was intent to kill Garner.

2 The evidence shows the cop killed Brown in self defense as Brown lunged for his gun.

Neither was outright executed in cold blood.

But then, no one has suggested that.

That is factually inaccurate. Many in the media intimated as much.

Link please.

(Actually I was referring to this forum. But I would like to know who in the media has proposed that.)

http://www.mediaite....n-was-murdered/

I tried to find interviews on MSNBC that have apparently been pulled or at least not archived. In those interviews the same conclusion was reached. I also saw some on MSM outlets as I was home sick that day and basically watched hours of broadcast. It caused me to cite on this very forum that all facts were not out in the case and people should withhold judgement until discovery.

With regard to the forum, I did think there were some who stated Brown was murdered. I could be wrong.

Arguably he could have been found guilty of murder other than 1st degree. That's not what I think happened but it certainly wasn't off the table at the time.

But not to be picky, the phrase in question here is "outright(sic) executed in cold blood"

So, is that all you've got? Donna Brazille calling it murder? Anyone say he was "executed in cold blood".

Not to put words in PT's mouth but, I think his distinction is murder/execution vs. killed in the line of duty. And yes, that's all I have with regards to a link at present. You can't fault networks for pulling this unfortunate commentary. Try to find the Donna Brazile commentary on CNN. Good luck!

But modifying the statement at issue is putting words into PT's mouth. If he meant something else, he should have used different words.

Maybe I misinterpreted? Maybe PT can chime in? Regardless, in this context, I don't see much difference in saying Officer Wilson executed vs. Officer Wilson murdered. Looks like word play to me.

[homersapien 11,440]

cole256....agreed but if you are at war time doesn't always allow for people to stop and think about what the BEST thing to do is. But peace brother my wife is calling me to lunch and I think I know what the best decision is :big:/>

So the cops are at "war" with us? Maybe that's part of the problem.

no, he was saying in combat well thought out decisions cannot be made. Whether a cop is being attacked by a knife, or in a firefight, split second decisions have to be made. I will go on record as saying every cop has the right to defend themselves proportionally to the threat.

More people explaining what PT really meant. :-\ You guys should be directing your comments to him rather than me. I am simply reading his posts.

But I am with you. If we can make people consider their words more carefully - and accept ownership of them - we could probably avoid a lot of misunderstanding.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

I don't know what he's smiling about but he certainly smiled and waved. You're part of a crew and for whatever reason a man you wanted to take in is dead what good explanation do you have for smiling and waving at a camera at a time when everybody is screaming oh my God I think he's dead?

Your argument certainly sounds as if you do. I'm sorry cole but, you are echoing an MSNBC talking point. Garner was not pronounced dead until later in the ambulance.

So the fact he was merely being loaded into an ambulance - instead of already being dead - makes all the difference in the cop's jovial behavior? :-\

And I think the point here is not to imply the cop meant to kill Garner, but was simply exhibiting a cavalier, careless attitude about it. A more appropriate reaction would have been concern about Garner and perhaps contemplating his possible responsibility for it.

The fact he can smile and joke is revealing about his attitude if not the entire force.

I thought the point was he had no idea Garner was dead?

You apparently missed the point. The point is the mind set of the officer at the time.

You are trying to fabricate a distinction between knowing he was dead and knowing he was been loaded into an ambulance because he was in severe respiratory stress. That's moot as far as the point is concerned.

Did I? If I am a cop that killed a man I surely feel remorse. But if that man is taken for medical attention and I have no idea he is in grave danger I might feel differently. That is my point. BTW, I did not ask cole but I will ask you. Do you have a link to the officer laughing, smiling, waving to the cameras, etc.?

Really? So if you choke this guy to the point where he needs emergency medical attention you shouldn't feel any remorse?

That's exactly the problem we are talking about.

And no, I don't have any links. I don't know for sure if it actually happened or not. I am arguing a hypothetical just like you are.

Would I feel remorse? Yes, of course. I also understand levels of remorse and given the two totally different hypothetical scenarios, I hope you would as well.

[homersapien 11,440]

cole256....not disagreeing so much because I think we are in agreement on the big stage of things but

1. I don't think there was intent to kill Garner.

2 The evidence shows the cop killed Brown in self defense as Brown lunged for his gun.

Neither was outright executed in cold blood.

But then, no one has suggested that.

That is factually inaccurate. Many in the media intimated as much.

Link please.

(Actually I was referring to this forum. But I would like to know who in the media has proposed that.)

http://www.mediaite....n-was-murdered/

I tried to find interviews on MSNBC that have apparently been pulled or at least not archived. In those interviews the same conclusion was reached. I also saw some on MSM outlets as I was home sick that day and basically watched hours of broadcast. It caused me to cite on this very forum that all facts were not out in the case and people should withhold judgement until discovery.

With regard to the forum, I did think there were some who stated Brown was murdered. I could be wrong.

Arguably he could have been found guilty of murder other than 1st degree. That's not what I think happened but it certainly wasn't off the table at the time.

But not to be picky, the phrase in question here is "outright(sic) executed in cold blood"

So, is that all you've got? Donna Brazille calling it murder? Anyone say he was "executed in cold blood".

Not to put words in PT's mouth but, I think his distinction is murder/execution vs. killed in the line of duty. And yes, that's all I have with regards to a link at present. You can't fault networks for pulling this unfortunate commentary. Try to find the Donna Brazile commentary on CNN. Good luck!

But modifying the statement at issue is putting words into PT's mouth. If he meant something else, he should have used different words.

Maybe I misinterpreted? Maybe PT can chime in? Regardless, in this context, I don't see much difference in saying Officer Wilson executed vs. Officer Wilson murdered. Looks like word play to me.

Really? Execution implies pre-meditated intent. Murder does not. That's not "word play", there's a big difference.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

cole256....not disagreeing so much because I think we are in agreement on the big stage of things but

1. I don't think there was intent to kill Garner.

2 The evidence shows the cop killed Brown in self defense as Brown lunged for his gun.

Neither was outright executed in cold blood.

But then, no one has suggested that.

That is factually inaccurate. Many in the media intimated as much.

Link please.

(Actually I was referring to this forum. But I would like to know who in the media has proposed that.)

http://www.mediaite....n-was-murdered/

I tried to find interviews on MSNBC that have apparently been pulled or at least not archived. In those interviews the same conclusion was reached. I also saw some on MSM outlets as I was home sick that day and basically watched hours of broadcast. It caused me to cite on this very forum that all facts were not out in the case and people should withhold judgement until discovery.

With regard to the forum, I did think there were some who stated Brown was murdered. I could be wrong.

Arguably he could have been found guilty of murder other than 1st degree. That's not what I think happened but it certainly wasn't off the table at the time.

But not to be picky, the phrase in question here is "outright(sic) executed in cold blood"

So, is that all you've got? Donna Brazille calling it murder? Anyone say he was "executed in cold blood".

Not to put words in PT's mouth but, I think his distinction is murder/execution vs. killed in the line of duty. And yes, that's all I have with regards to a link at present. You can't fault networks for pulling this unfortunate commentary. Try to find the Donna Brazile commentary on CNN. Good luck!

But modifying the statement at issue is putting words into PT's mouth. If he meant something else, he should have used different words.

Maybe I misinterpreted? Maybe PT can chime in? Regardless, in this context, I don't see much difference in saying Officer Wilson executed vs. Officer Wilson murdered. Looks like word play to me.

Really? Execution implies pre-meditated intent. Murder does not. That's not "word play", there's a big difference.

Not trying to be argumentative but, there are execution-style murders. And again, it was merely my interpretation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution-style_murder

[homersapien 11,440]

Not trying to be argumentative but, there are execution-style murders. And again, it was merely my interpretation.

http://en.wikipedia....on-style_murder

Yes, all executions are murders, but not all murders are executions. The first, doesn't make the words equivalent.

And I think you are trying to be argumentative.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

cole256....not disagreeing so much because I think we are in agreement on the big stage of things but

1. I don't think there was intent to kill Garner.

2 The evidence shows the cop killed Brown in self defense as Brown lunged for his gun.

Neither was outright executed in cold blood.

But then, no one has suggested that.

That is factually inaccurate. Many in the media intimated as much.

Link please.

(Actually I was referring to this forum. But I would like to know who in the media has proposed that.)

http://www.mediaite....n-was-murdered/

I tried to find interviews on MSNBC that have apparently been pulled or at least not archived. In those interviews the same conclusion was reached. I also saw some on MSM outlets as I was home sick that day and basically watched hours of broadcast. It caused me to cite on this very forum that all facts were not out in the case and people should withhold judgement until discovery.

With regard to the forum, I did think there were some who stated Brown was murdered. I could be wrong.

Arguably he could have been found guilty of murder other than 1st degree. That's not what I think happened but it certainly wasn't off the table at the time.

But not to be picky, the phrase in question here is "outright(sic) executed in cold blood"

So, is that all you've got? Donna Brazille calling it murder? Anyone say he was "executed in cold blood".

Not to put words in PT's mouth but, I think his distinction is murder/execution vs. killed in the line of duty. And yes, that's all I have with regards to a link at present. You can't fault networks for pulling this unfortunate commentary. Try to find the Donna Brazile commentary on CNN. Good luck!

But modifying the statement at issue is putting words into PT's mouth. If he meant something else, he should have used different words.

Maybe I misinterpreted? Maybe PT can chime in? Regardless, in this context, I don't see much difference in saying Officer Wilson executed vs. Officer Wilson murdered. Looks like word play to me.

Really? Execution implies pre-meditated intent. Murder does not. That's not "word play", there's a big difference.

Not trying to be argumentative but, there are execution-style murders. And again, it was merely my interpretation.

http://en.wikipedia....on-style_murder

Yes, all executions are murders, but not all murders are executions. That doesn't make the words equivalent.

And I think you are trying to be argumentative.

Shocking!

[WarTim 3,457]

Brown was killed because he attacked an officer. The officer was defending his life. That's all folks...

[cooltigger21 0]

Brown was killed because he attacked an officer. The officer was defending his life. That's all folks...

Race never entered into that except for the likes of Barry. Holder, Sharpton and his rent-a-mob buddies. Got everyone all wound up and the turned them loose on the citizens of Ferguson before moving on after they nearly destroyed the community.

Those three have caused more harm to black Americans than the kkk ever did.

[cole256 17,084]

cole256....agreed but if you are at war time doesn't always allow for people to stop and think about what the BEST thing to do is. But peace brother my wife is calling me to lunch and I think I know what the best decision is :big:/>

So the cops are at "war" with us? Maybe that's part of the problem.

no, he was saying in combat well thought out decisions cannot be made. Whether a cop is being attacked by a knife, or in a firefight, split second decisions have to be made. I will go on record as saying every cop has the right to defend themselves proportionally to the threat.

And I get that part, but as far as Garner he didn't ever oppose a threat. I can't say for sure because we can't predict things but I really think a more experienced policeman may have handled it differently and gotten different results

[cole256 17,084]

Brown was killed because he attacked an officer. The officer was defending his life. That's all folks...

Race never entered into that except for the likes of Barry. Holder, Sharpton and his rent-a-mob buddies. Got everyone all wound up and the turned them loose on the citizens of Ferguson before moving on after they nearly destroyed the community.

Those three have caused more harm to black Americans than the kkk ever did.

Now you're trying to make a point but I don't think you are thinking....KKK have hung men, dragged them behind cars, bombed churches, houses, killed children......I mean you hate Sharpton but you should really think here

[cooltigger21 0]

cole256....agreed but if you are at war time doesn't always allow for people to stop and think about what the BEST thing to do is. But peace brother my wife is calling me to lunch and I think I know what the best decision is :big:/>

So the cops are at "war" with us? Maybe that's part of the problem.

no, he was saying in combat well thought out decisions cannot be made. Whether a cop is being attacked by a knife, or in a firefight, split second decisions have to be made. I will go on record as saying every cop has the right to defend themselves proportionally to the threat.

And I get that part, but as far as Garner he didn't ever oppose a threat. I can't say for sure because we can't predict things but I really think a more experienced policeman may have handled it differently and gotten different results

Maybe it could have. If the city of New York hadn't been so worried about this guy avoiding their taxes it wouldn't have happened. It had nothing to do with race though in any event. You never heard that from the news media or the race baiters.

[cole256 17,084]

They didn't go to arrest him for cigarettes they were called for a disturbance that he actually broke up so the tax stuff I don't get. But like I said the officer already had a couple of infractions on his record and it happen to involve black people. And you actually can't say you know that without a shadow of a doubt because most racist are cowards they're not going to let you know....most kkk wore hoods for a reason

[WarTim 3,457]

So...can we all at LEAST agree that race was NOT a factor? If not, explain.......

[homersapien 11,440]

Brown was killed because he attacked an officer. The officer was defending his life. That's all folks...

Race never entered into that except for the likes of Barry. Holder, Sharpton and his rent-a-mob buddies. Got everyone all wound up and the turned them loose on the citizens of Ferguson before moving on after they nearly destroyed the community.

Those three have caused more harm to black Americans than the kkk ever did.

Now you're trying to make a point but I don't think you are thinking....KKK have hung men, dragged them behind cars, bombed churches, houses, killed children......I mean you hate Sharpton but you should really think here

No offense, but it's obvious you are a newbie on this forum.

Thinking before posting is just simply not done by a certain contingent.

You just have to overlook the resulting insults to your intelligence. Believe me, it's not just you whose intelligence they disrespect. It's everyone's.

[homersapien 11,440]

cole256....agreed but if you are at war time doesn't always allow for people to stop and think about what the BEST thing to do is. But peace brother my wife is calling me to lunch and I think I know what the best decision is :big:/>

So the cops are at "war" with us? Maybe that's part of the problem.

no, he was saying in combat well thought out decisions cannot be made. Whether a cop is being attacked by a knife, or in a firefight, split second decisions have to be made. I will go on record as saying every cop has the right to defend themselves proportionally to the threat.

And I get that part, but as far as Garner he didn't ever oppose a threat. I can't say for sure because we can't predict things but I really think a more experienced policeman may have handled it differently and gotten different results

Maybe it could have. If the city of New York hadn't been so worried about this guy avoiding their taxes it wouldn't have happened. It had nothing to do with race though in any event. You never heard that from the news media or the race baiters.

Right. He was killed by the cigarette tax.

[cole256 17,084]

So...can we all at LEAST agree that race was NOT a factor? If not, explain.......

What if I said these cops wasn't killed because they were cops.....how would you explain against it?

[alexava 6,973]

So...can we all at LEAST agree that race was NOT a factor? If not, explain.......

What if I said these cops wasn't killed because they were cops.....how would you explain against it?

the killer admitted it on social media.

[homersapien 11,440]

So...can we all at LEAST agree that race was NOT a factor? If not, explain.......

What if I said these cops wasn't killed because they were cops.....how would you explain against it?

the killer admitted it on social media.

I think that was meant as a hypothetical.

[cole256 17,084]

So...can we all at LEAST agree that race was NOT a factor? If not, explain.......

What if I said these cops wasn't killed because they were cops.....how would you explain against it?

the killer admitted it on social media.

Right. So let's say he didn't say it on social media would that make it less true what was in his heart? I guess what I'm saying is you can't definitely say race has nothing to do with it.It seems like people go out of their way on this board to say racism doesn't exist. That nothing is racism and if you mention race you're a race biter, and I think that's not right. Especially if you haven't ever have to experience it in a degrading manner.

[AUtiger98 24]

So...can we all at LEAST agree that race was NOT a factor? If not, explain.......

What if I said these cops wasn't killed because they were cops.....how would you explain against it?

the killer admitted it on social media.

Right. So let's say he didn't say it on social media would that make it less true what was in his heart? I guess what I'm saying is you can't definitely say race has nothing to do with it.It seems like people go out of their way on this board to say racism doesn't exist. That nothing is racism and if you mention race you're a race biter, and I think that's not right. Especially if you haven't ever have to experience it in a degrading manner.

Okay if he didn't say it on social media, he did tell a bystander something to the affect of watch this. Your point about shooting the cops is way off.

[alexava 6,973]

So...can we all at LEAST agree that race was NOT a factor? If not, explain.......

What if I said these cops wasn't killed because they were cops.....how would you explain against it?

the killer admitted it on social media.

Right. So let's say he didn't say it on social media would that make it less true what was in his heart? I guess what I'm saying is you can't definitely say race has nothing to do with it.It seems like people go out of their way on this board to say racism doesn't exist. That nothing is racism and if you mention race you're a race biter, and I think that's not right. Especially if you haven't ever have to experience it in a degrading manner.

ok. I think i see what you are saying, it's just hard to hypothesize something that is known. I know racism exists it always will. I have seen it improve tremendously in the last 25 years.until lately it has continued to improve. It has fallen back based on two dead criminals who forced cops to take actions neither wanted to take.

[cole256 17,084]

Maybe. Nothing about that guy putting that choke hold on Garner seemed like he didn't want to. Not how quick he did it, not how he didn't stop, not how he smiled, waved, and mocked the man's death. And since we can call Garner a criminal so easy we can call that cop one too since he broke the law and abused his power twice.