DKW 86 7,437 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 We can definitely afford it, its just $38 billion. We're made out of money, right? :-\ Well, it costs a lot less than all the wars we have been involved in. Water under the bridge. It's cyclical (60's, 70's, 2000's, 2010's). There's simply no comparison. I personally do not subscribe to the idea that we engaged in war simply for the sake of warmongering. After talking with a US Govt Project Engineer friend of mine, i would tend to disagree with you. He essentially said that there is so much money involved and the politics sssooo bad that he would not be shocked anymore. He is a retired marine btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Six Things Obama Didn't Tell You About His "Free" College Tuition Plan Conn Carroll | Jan 09, 2015 Previewing yet another item on his 2015 State of the Union Friday, President Obama announced a new plan to make community college tuition "free." "Today I'm announcing an ambitious new plan to bring down the cost of community college tuition in America," Obama said. "I wanna bring it down to zero. I wanna make it free." Obama may have spoken for over half-an-hour in Knoxville, Tennessee, where he was joined by both Sens. Bob Corker (R-TN) and Lamar Alexander (R-TN), but he left out a few details about his new program: 1) It Isn't Free Obama may have sold his plan as "free" college tuition, but it isn't free to students and it definitely isn't free to taxpayers. First, Obama's plan will only cover "three-qarters of the average cost of community college." States are expected to pick up the tab for the remaining 25 percent. But even then, the program will only cover the "average cost" of tuition. Many students who go to schools with higher tuitions will still be on the hook for money. Second, nothing is ever free for taxpayers. On Air Force One today, Deputy Press Secretary Eric Schultz confirmed that the program will cost at least $60 billion over ten years. 2) It Will Drown Community Colleges In Red Tape "There are no free rides in America," Obama insisted today. And he's right. Nothing is ever really free. "Colleges would to do their part by offering high quality academics and helping students actually graduate," Obama continued. "States would have to do their part to. This isn't a blank check. It is not a free lunch." All this accountability may sound great in a political speech, but in real life what it all translates to is tons of paperwork and red tape for states and schools. If you loved the federalization of elementary education through No Child Left Behind, and all the millions of hours of paperwork that came with it, then you'll love Obama's plan to federalize community colleges. 3) Too Many High School Students Aren't Prepared For Community College Too many high schools are already failing to prepare their graduates for college and making community college as universal as high school, which is what Obama said the goal of his new plan was, would only make the situation worse. A 2004 study found that not only did 68 percent of community college students take at least one remedial course, but of those that did take remedial courses, they had to take 2.9 of them. All Obama's plan would really do is create nationally funded 6-year high schools. 4) Community College's Have A Poor Track Record If community colleges had a strong track record of taking unprepared or financially strained students through graduation and onto four-year institutions, then maybe Obama's plan might begin to make some sense. But the simple fact is that they don't. Less than 20 percent of first-time, full-time community college students complete their two-year degrees in three years. And of the only 20 percent of community college students who do transfer to four-year institutions, only 72 percent of them will finish or still be in school after another four years . 5) "Free" Tuition Will Drive Up Costs No government spending program exists in a vacuum. If the government subsidizes the price of a service, then the price of that service will go up. Which is exactly what has happened to the price of four-year college tuition since the federal government has been ramping up their grant and loan-guarantee spending. 6) Government Spending Crowds Out Private Sector Solutions Not only will government subsidized tuition at public community colleges drive up the price of tuition at those colleges, but it will also crowd out private sector solutions. The Manhattan Institute's Judah Bellin explains: Furthermore, the for-profit industry has proven to be successful for many students who enroll in short-term programs. Students at for-profits are more likely to obtain certificates and associate's degrees, which typically take one or two years to complete, than students who begin these programs at community colleges. And after their first year, they are more likely to stay in such programs and less likely to need to take remedial courses than their community-college peers. Recent data from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center provides even more promising news. In 2007, among students attending two-year colleges, those who attended private, for-profit schools had a six-year completion rate of 62%, whereas their peers at community colleges and private non-profits had completion rates of 40% and 53%, respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 In general, if the government is going to get involved in giving something to a segment of citizens, I always prefer that it be something that's more of a "boost" to help someone take care of themselves going forward rather than just giving them something and that be it. This would seem to fit that bill...giving people who might not otherwise afford it a chance to get post HS education and improve their job prospects and thus make it less likely that their future would involved government assistance. As homer said, the devil is in the details though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,409 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Six Things Obama Didn't Tell You About His "Free" College Tuition Plan Conn Carroll | Jan 09, 2015 Previewing yet another item on his 2015 State of the Union Friday, President Obama announced a new plan to make community college tuition "free." "Today I'm announcing an ambitious new plan to bring down the cost of community college tuition in America," Obama said. "I wanna bring it down to zero. I wanna make it free." Obama may have spoken for over half-an-hour in Knoxville, Tennessee, where he was joined by both Sens. Bob Corker (R-TN) and Lamar Alexander (R-TN), but he left out a few details about his new program: Blah Blah Blah.... Wow!! Some hack from Townhall.com pans Obama's college education initiative?? Amazing! :-\ How about linking us to their proposal for increasing the educational level of our young people. After all, by 2018, 60% of all new jobs will require college education. http://www.reviewjou...llege-education Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Six Things Obama Didn't Tell You About His "Free" College Tuition Plan Conn Carroll | Jan 09, 2015 Previewing yet another item on his 2015 State of the Union Friday, President Obama announced a new plan to make community college tuition "free." "Today I'm announcing an ambitious new plan to bring down the cost of community college tuition in America," Obama said. "I wanna bring it down to zero. I wanna make it free." Obama may have spoken for over half-an-hour in Knoxville, Tennessee, where he was joined by both Sens. Bob Corker (R-TN) and Lamar Alexander (R-TN), but he left out a few details about his new program: Blah Blah Blah.... Wow!! Some hack from Townhall.com pans Obama's college education initiative?? Amazing! :-\ How about linking us to their proposal for increasing the educational level of our young people. After all, by 2018, 60% of all new jobs will require college education. http://www.reviewjou...llege-education Well he makes more sense than the hack in the White House or the hacks on this board. What the hack at Townhall points out is correct. Reformation of education in this country will not be solved by free community college, The standard reaction of throwing borrowed money at a problem has only makes the problem worse. The current state of education is a great example of your solutions. Here is one site with many potential solutions http://www.heritage....ssues/education. But your history of disregarding practical and proven solutions will not result in educating you, You are a prime example of the poor state of education. Obama's approach to higher education has burdened students with tremendous debt and few employment prospects. The free CC approach with raise the cost of education and improve nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Six Things Obama Didn't Tell You About His "Free" College Tuition Plan Conn Carroll | Jan 09, 2015 Previewing yet another item on his 2015 State of the Union Friday, President Obama announced a new plan to make community college tuition "free." "Today I'm announcing an ambitious new plan to bring down the cost of community college tuition in America," Obama said. "I wanna bring it down to zero. I wanna make it free." Obama may have spoken for over half-an-hour in Knoxville, Tennessee, where he was joined by both Sens. Bob Corker (R-TN) and Lamar Alexander (R-TN), but he left out a few details about his new program: Blah Blah Blah.... Wow!! Some hack from Townhall.com pans Obama's college education initiative?? Amazing! :-\ How about linking us to their proposal for increasing the educational level of our young people. After all, by 2018, 60% of all new jobs will require college education. http://www.reviewjou...llege-education Well he makes more sense than the hack in the White House or the hacks on this board. What the hack at Townhall points out is correct. Reformation of education in this country will not be solved by free community college, The standard reaction of throwing borrowed money at a problem has only makes the problem worse. The current state of education is a great example of your solutions. Here is one site with many potential solutions http://www.heritage....ssues/education. But your history of disregarding practical and proven solutions will not result in educating you, You are a prime example of the poor state of education. Obama's approach to higher education has burdened students with tremendous debt and few employment prospects. The free CC approach with raise the cost of education and improve nothing. LOL. Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,409 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Six Things Obama Didn't Tell You About His "Free" College Tuition Plan Conn Carroll | Jan 09, 2015 Previewing yet another item on his 2015 State of the Union Friday, President Obama announced a new plan to make community college tuition "free." "Today I'm announcing an ambitious new plan to bring down the cost of community college tuition in America," Obama said. "I wanna bring it down to zero. I wanna make it free." Obama may have spoken for over half-an-hour in Knoxville, Tennessee, where he was joined by both Sens. Bob Corker (R-TN) and Lamar Alexander (R-TN), but he left out a few details about his new program: Blah Blah Blah.... Wow!! Some hack from Townhall.com pans Obama's college education initiative?? Amazing! :-\ How about linking us to their proposal for increasing the educational level of our young people. After all, by 2018, 60% of all new jobs will require college education. http://www.reviewjou...llege-education ...... Here is one site with many potential solutions http://www.heritage....ssues/education. .....You are a prime example of the poor state of education. Well first, congratulations on dropping Townhall as your source. But how about picking out the specific plan or plans on the Heritage site that would substitute for - or contraindicate - Obama's proposal? And fyi, my education - of which the BS and MS degrees are from Auburn University - has served me pretty well. You shouldn't be bad-mouthing Auburn on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTim 3,456 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 With so many out of work kids, there's nothing else left for them to do except go to school. All by design, too. <_</> Winner winner chicken dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 And fyi, my education - of which the BS and MS degrees are from Auburn University - has served me pretty well. You shouldn't be bad-mouthing Auburn on this forum. There is formal education and life education. You missed something somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Does anyone other than me miss the old days on this forum when Auburn men and women actually discussed political issues? That's just more code speak. Not sure for what exactly, but I am offended ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan4Auburn 1,626 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 A couple quick thoughts I have on this: -Our education system factually exacerbates social and income inequality in America--this would help reduce those inequalities -If enacted, this may have the effect of forcing public and private universities to increase tuition since many students would presumably attend CC for free before transferring to a four-year school -The quality of community colleges needs to be improved drastically for this measure to have a significant impact on the nation's long-run productivity -We may see slight reductions in low-level faculty numbers for disciplines like English, History, Mathematics, etc. that are reliant on adjunct professors (there would be net increases in adjunct positions between universities and community colleges, though) Good points. I think one thing you might not have thought about is the viable careers that are available and in demand off of two year degrees though in the day. Like in the medical field. A RN with an associates average salary is $65k. A medical coder is making 48k. A physical therapist assistant is making 52k. A EMT is making 35. Those are just rough quick found averages off the net. Then you have the radiology techs, surgical techs, dental hygienist etc also. I know that CC's are already having their enrollments go up, as many students are doing core work there now prior to transferring due to costs. Would be curious if this would raise the value of a 4 year degree back up. Far as 4 years. I suspect you are right, as tuition at Auburn appears to raise every year, so it would continue to go up. Is it time to start asking question like does millions of money from tuition need to be funneled into the athletic program. I fully expect that in Fall of 2015 the "student fee" particulars of tuition will raise again. I believe they made up 850 dollars of Fall 2014's bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,409 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 And fyi, my education - of which the BS and MS degrees are from Auburn University - has served me pretty well. You shouldn't be bad-mouthing Auburn on this forum. There is formal education and life education. You missed something somewhere. Yeah, the part that requires me to latch on to right wing talking points as if they were gospel. I call it the lemming effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Lemming effect, hmmmmm. I am afraid you are already there with your left wing dogma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,409 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Lemming effect, hmmmmm. I am afraid you are already there with your left wing dogma. If you are referring to a program to enable more kids who are capable of earning a college degree to do so, then I plead guilty. It's good for our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Lemming effect, hmmmmm. I am afraid you are already there with your left wing dogma. If you are referring to a program to enable more kids who are capable of earning a college degree to do so, then I plead guilty. It's good for our country. I would suggest that improving the quality of public education would be a better solution rather than the continued destruction of of our education system. Anybody that wants to go to a community college can go now if they finish high school with the ability to read, write and do arithmetic. Sadly that is the failure of education. This is good for our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 My thoughts on this subject are that this is a good idea. I admit that this administration has dropped the ball a good many times, as have administrations in the past, but educating the populace and assisting in job placement is a smart move. Will this cost money? Of course it will, but in the long run, a more educated citizenry will be able to invest more in this country and will help to get more people off of government assistance. This should be made to include trade schools as well, as there are many that do not do well in a books oriented classroom setting. There are many who would ridicule this administration if they were to come out and give every American $5000 free. And I will admit that I have been one to do that many times, but on this subject, I have to say well done. We want to complain about people that are living off of the government, but then ridicule a plan to educate them and give them skills to get jobs. I say let it play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,409 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 My thoughts on this subject are that this is a good idea. I admit that this administration has dropped the ball a good many times, as have administrations in the past, but educating the populace and assisting in job placement is a smart move. Will this cost money? Of course it will, but in the long run, a more educated citizenry will be able to invest more in this country and will help to get more people off of government assistance. This should be made to include trade schools as well, as there are many that do not do well in a books oriented classroom setting. There are many who would ridicule this administration if they were to come out and give every American $5000 free. And I will admit that I have been one to do that many times, but on this subject, I have to say well done. We want to complain about people that are living off of the government, but then ridicule a plan to educate them and give them skills to get jobs. I say let it play out. Good point about trade schools. And the eligibility of all of these schools to be able to participate should be judged by the accomplishments of their graduates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,437 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 My thoughts on this subject are that this is a good idea. I admit that this administration has dropped the ball a good many times, as have administrations in the past, but educating the populace and assisting in job placement is a smart move. Will this cost money? Of course it will, but in the long run, a more educated citizenry will be able to invest more in this country and will help to get more people off of government assistance. This should be made to include trade schools as well, as there are many that do not do well in a books oriented classroom setting. There are many who would ridicule this administration if they were to come out and give every American $5000 free. And I will admit that I have been one to do that many times, but on this subject, I have to say well done. We want to complain about people that are living off of the government, but then ridicule a plan to educate them and give them skills to get jobs. I say let it play out. Good point about trade schools. And the eligibility of all of these schools to be able to participate should be judged by the accomplishments of their graduates. This puts us toward a more competitive model with Europe's educational standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,409 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Lemming effect, hmmmmm. I am afraid you are already there with your left wing dogma. If you are referring to a program to enable more kids who are capable of earning a college degree to do so, then I plead guilty. It's good for our country. I would suggest that improving the quality of public education would be a better solution rather than the continued destruction of of our education system. Anybody that wants to go to a community college can go now if they finish high school with the ability to read, write and do arithmetic. Sadly that is the failure of education. This is good for our country. Yeah, yeah. Improving the quality of public education system would be good for the country. :-\ I don't see the conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Lemming effect, hmmmmm. I am afraid you are already there with your left wing dogma. If you are referring to a program to enable more kids who are capable of earning a college degree to do so, then I plead guilty. It's good for our country. I would suggest that improving the quality of public education would be a better solution rather than the continued destruction of of our education system. Anybody that wants to go to a community college can go now if they finish high school with the ability to read, write and do arithmetic. Sadly that is the failure of education. This is good for our country. Yeah, yeah. Improving the quality of public education system would be good for the country. :-\ I don't see the conflict. ‘Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.’ George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonc 466 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 My thoughts on this subject are that this is a good idea. I admit that this administration has dropped the ball a good many times, as have administrations in the past, but educating the populace and assisting in job placement is a smart move. Will this cost money? Of course it will, but in the long run, a more educated citizenry will be able to invest more in this country and will help to get more people off of government assistance. This should be made to include trade schools as well, as there are many that do not do well in a books oriented classroom setting. There are many who would ridicule this administration if they were to come out and give every American $5000 free. And I will admit that I have been one to do that many times, but on this subject, I have to say well done. We want to complain about people that are living off of the government, but then ridicule a plan to educate them and give them skills to get jobs. I say let it play out. Well said. I completely agree with you about trade schools. There will always be a need for good electricians, plumbers, contractors,etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 So, many already get welfare checks, food stamps, free cell phones, etc., and now I have to help send them to college for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 So, many already get welfare checks, food stamps, free cell phones, etc., and now I have to help send them to college for free? no. Those are already going for free. It's hopefully my kids we will be sending for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 With due respect....Why should I have to pay anything for your kids? My three went to college with help from me, working summers, loans, co-oping, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexava 6,973 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Mine will too if this doesn't pass. If it does pass i get help that i will gladly accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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