Shocking Video----PP Employees Sorting Baby Body Parts

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Back to the initial video (And I'll start with the link from everyone's 'favorite' source, Fox News):

http://www.foxnews.c...ercover-videos/

http://rhrealitychec...progress-video/

http://www.factcheck...renthood-video/

http://thinkprogress...od-sting-group/

Bottom Line:

1. No baby parts for sell here, and

2. The group that released the video, The Center for Medical Progress, has a very questionable record for honesty and objectivity and a very clear agenda.

The latest video (the 4th one) calls #1 into serious question. The loopholes for compensation are big enough to drive a truck through anyway.

As for #2, Planned Parenthood has a questionable record for honesty and objectivity and a very clear agenda as well.

You'll notice that after initially claiming selective editing, PP and their allies have changed tactics on dealing with the videos. Sort of had to once the CMP started releasing the full, unedited videos with a printed transcript to accompany the highlight videos. Now they attempt to apologize for "tone" and simply attack the group for an "anti-choice agenda", but there's no longer a claim that the full videos are tampered with or selectively edited. And StemExpress, the company that does a ton of business in these baby parts with PP, is going for a injunction to prevent their videos from being aired.

Bottom line: Planned Parenthood has a lot to still answer for. And they've got 9 more videos forthcoming that will give them plenty of questions.

[WarTim 3,456]

Titan, WHAT do you think will be the stance for PP going forward? The complete videos have been / will be released. The "tone" crap will not fly any more.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests that is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

[homersapien 11,373]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests taht is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

Of course the videos aren't discussing the percent of late term abortions. And from the videos, one would get the impression that abortions are all the PP does.

[homersapien 11,373]

I can't comprehend because it didn't make any sense. Maybe you or Mims can explain.

My original point was that you feel you have the right to exercise your own freedom of choice while denying the freedom of choice of a pregnant woman.

...who denies the freedom of choice to the child.

Does the unborn have the same rights that we do?

That's what I figured WarTimmys point was, and I was trying to convey that to homer.

If he believes a fetus holds the same rights as he does then he is not being hypocritical in saying he doesn't believe a human life should be murdered because it has became an inconvenience to its carrier.

Correct. (and that's Mr. WarTim to you. :-)

That's not the question that was posed. Keep up.

Again, I was pretty sure the name calling you threw out so quickly "hypocrite" was directed at his stance on abortion, while simultaneously claiming his rights over his own body.

Thus bringing the abortion topic into the discussion of his answer and defense of his answer.

Not quite. I didn't call him a hypocrite, I said his position was hypocritical.

Claiming your right over your body while refusing a woman's right over her's is a hypocritical position.

But considering the number of thoughtless posts made on here, I am hesitate to assume someone is a hypocrite simply for posting something that is hypocritical.

And like I said much much earlier, you are failing to see the argument from his side. With his way of thinking he is not being hypocritical.

That's his problem.

But it is what it is. He would deny to women what he claims for himself.

That's all I was getting at... was a looong round about way of posting ad hominem But I might as well milk it, right?

I am interested to know Homer:

1: Are you for abortion up till the baby exits the woman and is still alive?

2: Charging women with murder (or various other charges) for self aborting with pills/clothes hanger etc.

3: Women and men aborting their kids who have been born already?

.... I know #3 sounds stupid to a lot of people probably, but I was approached by a woman trying to get signatures to legalize the right to euthanize babies up to 6 months old.

Figured I'd ask, I didn't think anyone believed the 6,000 year theory before I started asking people, so might be the same results here.

No, subject to medical conditions; no; and no.

[WarTim 3,456]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests taht is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

Of course the videos aren't discussing the percent of late term abortions. And from the videos, one would get the impression that abortions are all the PP does.

It is the majority "of what they do". They even have quotas and reward those that surpass their goals...

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

More evidence they are dealing with parts.

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/heres-a-stomach-kidney-heart/

[homersapien 11,373]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests taht is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

Of course the videos aren't discussing the percent of late term abortions. And from the videos, one would get the impression that abortions are all the PP does.

It is the majority "of what they do". They even have quotas and reward those that surpass their goals...

Wrong, as usual.

Planned Parenthood is the largest U.S. provider of reproductive health services, including cancer screening, HIV screening and counseling, contraception, and abortion. Contraception accounts for 34% of PPFA's total services and abortions account for 3%. PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves.

https://en.wikipedia...nned_Parenthood

[icanthearyou 4,462]

"For the past two hundred years, atheists have been loudly asserting that the dismissal of God will lead to human liberation. I would strenuously argue precisely the contrary. Once the human being is untethered from God, he becomes, in very short order, an object among objects, and hence susceptible to the grossest manipulation by the powerful and self-interested. In the measure that people still speak of the irreducible dignity of the individual, they are, whether they know it or not, standing upon Biblical foundations. When those foundations are shaken—as they increasingly are today—a culture of death will follow just as surely as night follows day. If there is no God, then human beings are dispensable—so why not trade the organs of infants for a nice Lamborghini?" - Fr. Robert Barron

Robert Barron is of course entitled to think what he wants.

However, although a Christian myself, I completely reject reasoning that argues human beings have dignity, rights, or value only on the condition that there is a God, and in particular, exclusively the Biblical God. Atheists are just as capable of moral or ethical behavior and respect for their fellow humans as non-atheists are. And many of the psychotic monsters of history (including contemporary Islamo-fascist terrorists, the witch hunters of Salem, and the Spanish Inquisitors) claimed religious reasons for their inhumane actions.

Sorry Quite...absent God, there is no objective morality. Atheism is by definition the absence of God and objective morality. In atheism, there is only survival of their sperm vs someone else's...their is only natural selection...so drop the atheist pretense of morality. An atheist claiming the high ground of morality is merely a half-assed atheist.

How do you explain an atheist who exhibits higher moral and ethical standards than someone who claims faith? How do you account for religious wars? Are intolerant, self-righteous religious zealots good neighbors?

Do you think that people always live in ways that follow the logical ends of their stated beliefs?

No. Quite often, neither in a manner that reflects their beliefs nor, the expectations or prejudices of others. That is the point.

Ok, so take that, and go back and reread what I posted. Because right now, you are arguing a completely different issue than Fr. Barron is.

I disagree. I believe that you are not being genuine in your "defense" of Barron's statement. His statement does reflect a contrast between those of faith and those without faith. Furthermore, I believe you are misrepresenting the word "God" in his statement as organized religion.

Yes, I get that your default switch is to read virtually any comment or statement of orthodox faith as politically as possible, with a splash of your anti-organized religion sauce. But that isn't what he's saying. The argument he's making is simply one of following the logical ends of a belief in pure materialism. Neither his statement, nor my defense of it, is speaking of organized religion.

Naturally your interpretation is the only correct one. Dogmatic people tend to be dogmatic.

I guess my faith aint as good as your faith is.

I know that. If you notice, I credited that to you.

I believe you are intentionally misrepresenting me as "anti-organized religion". I am not. However, I am troubled by the politicizing of the church. You are correct that I do not particularly care for "orthodox" messages. At least at the point where, condemnation begins to overwhelm grace, love, and forgiveness.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests taht is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

Of course the videos aren't discussing the percent of late term abortions. And from the videos, one would get the impression that abortions are all the PP does.

It is the majority "of what they do". They even have quotas and reward those that surpass their goals...

Wrong, as usual.

Planned Parenthood is the largest U.S. provider of reproductive health services, including cancer screening, HIV screening and counseling, contraception, and abortion. Contraception accounts for 34% of PPFA's total services and abortions account for 3%. PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves.

https://en.wikipedia...nned_Parenthood

Lying is acceptable in this particular case and, 3% is close to 51%. Do you just want to go to hell?

[aujeff11 6,243]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

More evidence they are dealing with parts.

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/heres-a-stomach-kidney-heart/

I still don't see how it's possible when many parts are not even fully developed yet. Unless the business is restricted to the 8 to 10% aborted after the first trimester, or only sells the baby as whole, there are not many options for parts. Like I said, at 13 weeks, the baby only weighs an ounce. My wife is 14 weeks pregnant and she isn't even showing yet. She wasn't showing by then for our first one as well.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests taht is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

Of course the videos aren't discussing the percent of late term abortions. And from the videos, one would get the impression that abortions are all the PP does.

It is the majority "of what they do". They even have quotas and reward those that surpass their goals...

Wrong, as usual.

Planned Parenthood is the largest U.S. provider of reproductive health services, including cancer screening, HIV screening and counseling, contraception, and abortion. Contraception accounts for 34% of PPFA's total services and abortions account for 3%. PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves.

https://en.wikipedia...nned_Parenthood

That is because they pad the stats. Woman comes in for an abortion. They perform various other tests and consultations to check the box, so in the end, if they can add in a handful of other things like a pap smear, an HIV screening, talk to you about contraception and give away some condoms, etc, the abortion (which is the whole point of the visit) can be chalked up to just 10% or less of the a "services provided."

The majority of the women who come into PP are there about an abortion or whether they are pregnant and need one. The rest is fluff.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests taht is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

Of course the videos aren't discussing the percent of late term abortions. And from the videos, one would get the impression that abortions are all the PP does.

It is the majority "of what they do". They even have quotas and reward those that surpass their goals...

Wrong, as usual.

Planned Parenthood is the largest U.S. provider of reproductive health services, including cancer screening, HIV screening and counseling, contraception, and abortion. Contraception accounts for 34% of PPFA's total services and abortions account for 3%. PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves.

https://en.wikipedia...nned_Parenthood

That is because they pad the stats. Woman comes in for an abortion. They perform various other tests and consultations to check the box, so in the end, if they can add in a handful of other things like a pap smear, an HIV screening, talk to you about contraception and give away some condoms, etc, the abortion (which is the whole point of the visit) can be chalked up to just 10% or less of the a "services provided."

The majority of the women who come into PP are there about an abortion or whether they are pregnant and need one. The rest is fluff.

PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves

Can you explain?

[WarTim 3,456]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests taht is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

Of course the videos aren't discussing the percent of late term abortions. And from the videos, one would get the impression that abortions are all the PP does.

It is the majority "of what they do". They even have quotas and reward those that surpass their goals...

Wrong, as usual.

Planned Parenthood is the largest U.S. provider of reproductive health services, including cancer screening, HIV screening and counseling, contraception, and abortion. Contraception accounts for 34% of PPFA's total services and abortions account for 3%. PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves.

https://en.wikipedia...nned_Parenthood

False info , lies, As Usual...

[WarTim 3,456]

Considering 89%to 92% of all abortions are done in the first trimester, at the point of development where the baby only weighs roughly one ounce, I have to think that the PP isn't selling parts. It would seem much easier just to throw one ounce away.

The preponderance of evidence so far suggests taht is not the case. The videos released aren't discussing a one once mass.

Of course the videos aren't discussing the percent of late term abortions. And from the videos, one would get the impression that abortions are all the PP does.

It is the majority "of what they do". They even have quotas and reward those that surpass their goals...

Wrong, as usual.

Planned Parenthood is the largest U.S. provider of reproductive health services, including cancer screening, HIV screening and counseling, contraception, and abortion. Contraception accounts for 34% of PPFA's total services and abortions account for 3%. PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves.

https://en.wikipedia...nned_Parenthood

That is because they pad the stats. Woman comes in for an abortion. They perform various other tests and consultations to check the box, so in the end, if they can add in a handful of other things like a pap smear, an HIV screening, talk to you about contraception and give away some condoms, etc, the abortion (which is the whole point of the visit) can be chalked up to just 10% or less of the a "services provided."

The majority of the women who come into PP are there about an abortion or whether they are pregnant and need one. The rest is fluff.

PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves

Can you explain?

Easy... He/they Lied...

[TitanTiger 20,482]

PPFA conducts roughly 300,000 abortions annually, among the 3 million people the organization serves

Can you explain?

The basic explanation is that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. PPFA uses all three to full effect.

Let's look at some figures derived from their own reports:

Though 98 percent of Planned Parenthood’s services to pregnant women are abortion, Planned Parenthood and its political allies have sworn up and down that taxpayer dollars do not to pay for abortion. But of course they do. Planned Parenthood gets one-third of its entire budget from taxpayer funding and performed more than 650,000 abortions between 2008 and 2009. An abortion is expensive. Its cost includes pay for the doctor, supporting medical staff, their health benefits packages and malpractice insurance. As clinic director, I saw how money affiliate clinics receive from several sources is combined into one pot, not set aside for specific services.

Planned Parenthood’s claim that abortions make up just 3 percent of its services is also a gimmick. That number is actually closer to 12 percent, but strategically skewed by unbundling family planning services so that each patient shows anywhere from five to 20 “visits” per appointment (i.e., 12 packs of birth control equals 12 visits) and doing the opposite with abortion visits, bundling them together so that each appointment equals one visit. The resulting difference between family planning and abortion “visits” is striking.

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/05/abby-johnson-planned-parenthood-business-model-all-about-abortion/

However, the new numbers make it more clear that women who are pregnant who come to Planned Parenthood receive only abortion services rather than help and support.

The new document the abortion organization posted shows Planned Parenthood provided prenatal services to merely 7,021 women and referred only 977 women for adoption services. These numbers were a 25 percent drop in prenatal care clients and a whopping 59 percent decline in adoption referrals from the 2,405 adoption referrals in 2008. The abortion business helped only 9,433 prenatal clients in 2008, down substantially from the 11,000 women it provided prenatal care to in 2007 — showing health care given to pregnant woman has fallen substantially over the years.

As a result, 97.6 percent of pregnant women going to Planned Parenthood are sold abortions while less than 2.4 percent of pregnant women received non-abortion services including adoption and prenatal care. That’s up from 96.5 percent of pregnant women going to Planned Parenthood getting abortions in 2008.

“Despite its protestations that abortion is only a small part of its services,” said Jim Sedlak, vice president of the pro-life group American Life League, “Planned Parenthood has increased its number of abortions for 15 straight years. During that time, it has gone from committing 9.3 percent of all abortions in the United States to committing 27.5 percent.”

Sedlak also noted that the new Planned Parenthood report shows it now does 340 abortions for every one adoption referral and 47 abortions for every one prenatal care client. He said Planned Parenthood’s own records now show 5,320,095 surgical and medical abortions done at Planned Parenthood centers from 1970 through the end of 2009.

“We estimate that the income from abortion accounts for 40 percent of its annual clinic income,” he said, adding that former Planned Parenthood clinics director Abby Johnson has testified repeatedly to the pressure local affiliates receive to do more abortions because Planned Parenthood makes more money from abortions than non-abortion services.

http://www.lifenews.com/2011/02/23/new-planned-parenthood-report-record-abortions-done-in-2009/

In an interview published March 17 in the Texas Tribune, Ms. Richards spoke at length about all the healthcare PPFA provides: "We see 3 million patients each year across the country. For 97 percent of them, we provide preventive care. Three percent are abortions."

Yet according to PPFA's own March 2011 Planned Parenthood Services fact sheet, 332,278 abortions were performed on some of PPFA's three million clients in the year ending June 30, 2009. This suggests that eleven percent of their clients had abortions in that year, not three percent. But the best measure of how important abortions are to PPFA's bottom line is the fact that abortions produce at least 37 percent of PPFA revenues "by very conservative estimates."Anchor[1]

PPFA has also expanded these lucrative abortion services, adding surgical or "medical" (RU-486) abortion to the services offered at an additional 75 clinics between 2005 and 2009. In that period, PPFA's total annual abortions grew 25 percent,Anchor[2] while other services declined. For example, prenatal care clients numbered 7,021 in the most recent year (down 60 percent in the last five years),Anchor[3] and adoption referrals to other agencies numbered only 977, compared to 4,912 in 2007, (see page 7) a remarkable 80% drop in adoption referrals in only two years.

Due to this increase in abortions and decrease in prenatal care and adoption services, 97.6 percent of PPFA "services" for pregnant women in 2009 involved killing their children, and only 2.4 percent involved prenatal care or adoption referral.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/04/things_planned_parenthoods_tru.html

They fudge the numbers. And abortions are a very lucrative business and very significant portion of their overall revenues.

Now we also know they can be creative with the numbers of "reasonable costs" for providing baby shrapnel from their grisly procedures and make a little more coin.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

"Planned Parenthood’s claim that abortions make up just 3 percent of its services is also a gimmick. That number is actually closer to 12 percent,"

Still, a far cry from "the majority".

Perhaps both sides are guilty of "lying"? Perhaps, it would be a better use of resources to develop an alternative, competing organization?

[TitanTiger 20,482]

"Planned Parenthood’s claim that abortions make up just 3 percent of its services is also a gimmick. That number is actually closer to 12 percent,"

Still, a far cry from "the majority".

Perhaps both sides are guilty of "lying"? Perhaps, it would be a better use of resources to develop an alternative, competing organization?

The fact remains that 97.6% of pregnant women that go into a Planned Parenthood facility end up killing their child with PPFA's help. Their "help" to pregnant women consists almost entirely of performing abortions.

There are competing organizations all over the country that offer services to pregnant women from prenatal care and ultrasounds, to parenting instruction and adoption referrals. And organizations like PPFA try to get onerous laws passed to restrict their ability to advertise and promote their non-lethal alternatives.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

"Planned Parenthood’s claim that abortions make up just 3 percent of its services is also a gimmick. That number is actually closer to 12 percent,"

Still, a far cry from "the majority".

Perhaps both sides are guilty of "lying"? Perhaps, it would be a better use of resources to develop an alternative, competing organization?

The fact remains that 97.6% of pregnant women that go into a Planned Parenthood facility end up killing their child with PPFA's help. Their "help" to pregnant women consists almost entirely of performing abortions.

There are competing organizations all over the country that offer services to pregnant women from prenatal care and ultrasounds, to parenting instruction and adoption referrals. And organizations like PPFA try to get onerous laws passed to restrict their ability to advertise and promote their non-lethal alternatives.

Examples? Is there a Pro-Abortion movement?

Perhaps the "competing organizations" would be better served by promoting their message and services rather than opposing PP?

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I'll also add, according to former PP clinic director Abby Johnson, PP clinics have phased out most of the claimed services. They stopped actually providing most of the non pregnancy-related services in most areas in the late 2000s. They refer people to various doctors and clinics in the area for the majority of stuff like prenatal "care", mammograms, pap smears, prostate exams (yes, they claim to offer services to men too). What they mostly perform themselves in terms of services now are pregnancy tests, STD tests, contraception and abortions. Even with ultrasounds, the clinics won't do one unless the woman is interested in getting an abortion. If you say you're not, they tell you to find a doctor or refer you to one is you don't have one.

PPFA is about obfuscation of their main purpose. Just like now they are about obfuscating what these videos actually show them doing by attacking the messenger.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

"Planned Parenthood’s claim that abortions make up just 3 percent of its services is also a gimmick. That number is actually closer to 12 percent,"

Still, a far cry from "the majority".

Perhaps both sides are guilty of "lying"? Perhaps, it would be a better use of resources to develop an alternative, competing organization?

The fact remains that 97.6% of pregnant women that go into a Planned Parenthood facility end up killing their child with PPFA's help. Their "help" to pregnant women consists almost entirely of performing abortions.

There are competing organizations all over the country that offer services to pregnant women from prenatal care and ultrasounds, to parenting instruction and adoption referrals. And organizations like PPFA try to get onerous laws passed to restrict their ability to advertise and promote their non-lethal alternatives.

Examples? Is there a Pro-Abortion movement?

Call it what you want:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/publiccatholic/2015/05/crisis-pregnancy-centers-are-under-attack-for-saving-lives/

http://townhall.com/columnists/cortneyobrien/2012/11/04/the_unconstitutional_attack_on_crisis_pregnancy_centers/page/full

http://www.sba-list.org/suzy-b-blog/pregnancy-centers-under-attack

http://aclj.org/pro-life/the-abortion-industrys-latest-attempt-to-shut-down-pro-life-pregnancy-centers

[icanthearyou 4,462]

"Planned Parenthood’s claim that abortions make up just 3 percent of its services is also a gimmick. That number is actually closer to 12 percent,"

Still, a far cry from "the majority".

Perhaps both sides are guilty of "lying"? Perhaps, it would be a better use of resources to develop an alternative, competing organization?

The fact remains that 97.6% of pregnant women that go into a Planned Parenthood facility end up killing their child with PPFA's help. Their "help" to pregnant women consists almost entirely of performing abortions.

There are competing organizations all over the country that offer services to pregnant women from prenatal care and ultrasounds, to parenting instruction and adoption referrals. And organizations like PPFA try to get onerous laws passed to restrict their ability to advertise and promote their non-lethal alternatives.

Examples? Is there a Pro-Abortion movement?

Call it what you want:

http://www.patheos.c...r-saving-lives/

http://townhall.com/...nters/page/full

http://www.sba-list....rs-under-attack

http://aclj.org/pro-...egnancy-centers

Sorry but, I do not find these to be very compelling. I see references to the "big abortion machine" but, no clear identification of who and what are behind the "machine".

[TitanTiger 20,482]

"Planned Parenthood’s claim that abortions make up just 3 percent of its services is also a gimmick. That number is actually closer to 12 percent,"

Still, a far cry from "the majority".

Perhaps both sides are guilty of "lying"? Perhaps, it would be a better use of resources to develop an alternative, competing organization?

The fact remains that 97.6% of pregnant women that go into a Planned Parenthood facility end up killing their child with PPFA's help. Their "help" to pregnant women consists almost entirely of performing abortions.

There are competing organizations all over the country that offer services to pregnant women from prenatal care and ultrasounds, to parenting instruction and adoption referrals. And organizations like PPFA try to get onerous laws passed to restrict their ability to advertise and promote their non-lethal alternatives.

Examples? Is there a Pro-Abortion movement?

Call it what you want:

http://www.patheos.c...r-saving-lives/

http://townhall.com/...nters/page/full

http://www.sba-list....rs-under-attack

http://aclj.org/pro-...egnancy-centers

Sorry but, I do not find these to be very compelling. I see references to the "big abortion machine" but, no clear identification of who and what are behind the "machine".

What do you not find compelling? You think these pushes are coming from the ether? It is organizations like NARAL, Emily's List, Guttmacher, PPFA and the like that wholeheartedly support these laws and lobby for more of them. Many of them include updates on various legal efforts, which include these laws.

Are you under some misapprehension that PPFA is some altruistic organization providing services to women out of the goodness of their hearts or something? Planned Parenthood is a business. Abortions and the various "opportunities" it presents afterward is a lucrative for them. And they get huge grants from the government.

You know who IS mostly doing it for right reasons? Crisis Pregnancy Centers. There are substandard ones to be sure, but CPCs are not a money making operation. They don't get to charge hundreds of dollars for abortions and suck in billions in federal grants for other stuff. They have an agenda, yes, but at least it is one that seeks to avoid killing and the fallout it produces emotionally and spiritually.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

"Planned Parenthood’s claim that abortions make up just 3 percent of its services is also a gimmick. That number is actually closer to 12 percent,"

Still, a far cry from "the majority".

Perhaps both sides are guilty of "lying"? Perhaps, it would be a better use of resources to develop an alternative, competing organization?

The fact remains that 97.6% of pregnant women that go into a Planned Parenthood facility end up killing their child with PPFA's help. Their "help" to pregnant women consists almost entirely of performing abortions.

There are competing organizations all over the country that offer services to pregnant women from prenatal care and ultrasounds, to parenting instruction and adoption referrals. And organizations like PPFA try to get onerous laws passed to restrict their ability to advertise and promote their non-lethal alternatives.

Examples? Is there a Pro-Abortion movement?

Call it what you want:

http://www.patheos.c...r-saving-lives/

http://townhall.com/...nters/page/full

http://www.sba-list....rs-under-attack

http://aclj.org/pro-...egnancy-centers

Sorry but, I do not find these to be very compelling. I see references to the "big abortion machine" but, no clear identification of who and what are behind the "machine".

What do you not find compelling? You think these pushes are coming from the ether? It is organizations like NARAL, Emily's List, Guttmacher, PPFA and the like that wholeheartedly support these laws and lobby for more of them. Many of them include updates on various legal efforts, which include these laws.

Are you under some misapprehension that PPFA is some altruistic organization providing services to women out of the goodness of their hearts or something? Planned Parenthood is a business. Abortions and the various "opportunities" it presents afterward is a lucrative for them. And they get huge grants from the government.

You know who IS mostly doing it for right reasons? Crisis Pregnancy Centers. There are substandard ones to be sure, but CPCs are not a money making operation. They don't get to charge hundreds of dollars for abortions and suck in billions in federal grants for other stuff. They have an agenda, yes, but at least it is one that seeks to avoid killing and the fallout it produces emotionally and spiritually.

Are you under the impression the PP is a profit driven corporation?

All of your links seem to go back to the word of one individual, Abby Johnson. I can appreciate her story, particularly considering her own personal experiences with abortions. However, her credibility is in question.