Shocking Video----PP Employees Sorting Baby Body Parts

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Are you under the impression the PP is a profit driven corporation?

They are non-profit in name only.

All of your links seem to go back to the word of one individual, Abby Johnson. I can appreciate her story, particularly considering her own personal experiences with abortions. However, her credibility is in question.

They weren't all her, but she is one of the main spokespeople for those who have been on the inside and left PP.

I've seen the sites questioning her credibility. I do not find them particularly credible. That you cannot see the vested interest they would have in trying to discredit or destroy her is odd.

But here's another:

http://liveactionnew...s-out-for-life/

[WarTim 3,456]

Yes indeed. There is a "Pro abortion movement". ....The DNC....

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Are you under the impression the PP is a profit driven corporation?

They are non-profit in name only.

All of your links seem to go back to the word of one individual, Abby Johnson. I can appreciate her story, particularly considering her own personal experiences with abortions. However, her credibility is in question.

They weren't all her, but she is one of the main spokespeople for those who have been on the inside and left PP.

I've seen the sites questioning her credibility. I do not find them particularly credible. That you cannot see the vested interest they would have in trying to discredit or destroy her is odd.

But here's another:

http://liveactionnew...s-out-for-life/

No, it it not that I "cannot see it". I am simply questioning whether or not it really exists. Are you proposing that the various foundations that support PP are in on this? Please, convince me. Who is profiting?

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Planned Parenthood is over $240 million in the black over the last 4 years and have over $900 million in assets. I'd say they are profiting. The clinic directors that are given bonuses and other perks for hitting abortion quotas are profiting as well.

Hospitals and other abortion providers who are not non-profit necessarily profit from it.

The doctors who perform abortions profit from it.

StemExpress and companies like them that get aborted babies or their parts from PP and other clinics certainly profit. Handsomely.

Politicians that toe the NARAL line on abortion get a whole lot of campaign donations at the very least from abortion providers. I'd say they are profiting in some form.

This really isn't a hard list to come up with and it's far from exhaustive.

[AURaptor 1,123]

The WH's comments , via spokes weasel, are about as abysmal as Hillary's or those from PP themselves.

It's extremists on the Right who are causing the problem here, not PP.

There are no words.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

The WH's comments , via spokes weasel, are about as abysmal as Hillary's or those from PP themselves.

It's extremists on the Right who are causing the problem here, not PP.

There are no words.

The spokesweasel basically held up Planned Parenthood's voicemail message to the mic and delivered it verbatim.

[homersapien 11,373]

Your prayers have been answered:

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/31/wingnuts_are_gearing_up_for_another_government_shutdown_this_time_over_planned_parenthood/

[AURaptor 1,123]

Your prayers have been answered:

http://www.salon.com...ned_parenthood/

" Wingnuts " ???

Really? Those who feel this is beyond the pale for federal funding for this clearly illegal activitgy is how your radicals on the Left refer to responsible citizens responding to this issue ?

I take it then that you fully side w/ PP and the WH on this matter ?

Of course you do. I don't need to bother asking .

[Weegle777 78]

[AURaptor 1,123]

It's called #Juxtaprogressive

Like...

[AURaptor 1,123]

I really need to stay off Twitter..

[japantiger 4,051]

"For the past two hundred years, atheists have been loudly asserting that the dismissal of God will lead to human liberation. I would strenuously argue precisely the contrary. Once the human being is untethered from God, he becomes, in very short order, an object among objects, and hence susceptible to the grossest manipulation by the powerful and self-interested. In the measure that people still speak of the irreducible dignity of the individual, they are, whether they know it or not, standing upon Biblical foundations. When those foundations are shaken—as they increasingly are today—a culture of death will follow just as surely as night follows day. If there is no God, then human beings are dispensable—so why not trade the organs of infants for a nice Lamborghini?" - Fr. Robert Barron

Robert Barron is of course entitled to think what he wants.

However, although a Christian myself, I completely reject reasoning that argues human beings have dignity, rights, or value only on the condition that there is a God, and in particular, exclusively the Biblical God. Atheists are just as capable of moral or ethical behavior and respect for their fellow humans as non-atheists are. And many of the psychotic monsters of history (including contemporary Islamo-fascist terrorists, the witch hunters of Salem, and the Spanish Inquisitors) claimed religious reasons for their inhumane actions.

Sorry Quite...absent God, there is no objective morality. Atheism is by definition the absence of God and objective morality. In atheism, there is only survival of their sperm vs someone else's...their is only natural selection...so drop the atheist pretense of morality. An atheist claiming the high ground of morality is merely a half-assed atheist.

How do you explain an atheist who exhibits higher moral and ethical standards than someone who claims faith? How do you account for religious wars? Are intolerant, self-righteous religious zealots good neighbors?

Do you think that people always live in ways that follow the logical ends of their stated beliefs?

No. Quite often, neither in a manner that reflects their beliefs nor, the expectations or prejudices of others. That is the point.

Ok, so take that, and go back and reread what I posted. Because right now, you are arguing a completely different issue than Fr. Barron is.

I disagree. I believe that you are not being genuine in your "defense" of Barron's statement. His statement does reflect a contrast between those of faith and those without faith. Furthermore, I believe you are misrepresenting the word "God" in his statement as organized religion.

Folks, I quote Richard Dawkins here describing the atheist world view...his is not exclusive...but representative:

"In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. . . . DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music."

To go from this to statements of; or pretense toward; moral behavior is completely illogical and hypocritical. There can be no moral judgments or actions; because, there is no morality; no good, no evil; there is just life. There are no Gods, no purpose, no goal-direct forces....no life after death; when we die we are dead and gone...we are at an end...embrace the horror guys...there is no foundation for ethics, no meaning of life and no free will....Now, you can imagine or pretend that there are these sort of things; concepts like morality; but they have no objective foundation or validity....it's just an illusion...or really a delusion to follow such a myth in a naturalistic world.

Now, have any of you guys seen that fourth video? This group is a bunch of ghouls; soul-less, pitiless, without mercy; lacking any form of human empathy. I cannot believe any of you on here can support spending one dime on this organization...they are the latter day version of the grave robbers in a Mary Shelly novel.

[cooltigger21 0]

"For the past two hundred years, atheists have been loudly asserting that the dismissal of God will lead to human liberation. I would strenuously argue precisely the contrary. Once the human being is untethered from God, he becomes, in very short order, an object among objects, and hence susceptible to the grossest manipulation by the powerful and self-interested. In the measure that people still speak of the irreducible dignity of the individual, they are, whether they know it or not, standing upon Biblical foundations. When those foundations are shaken—as they increasingly are today—a culture of death will follow just as surely as night follows day. If there is no God, then human beings are dispensable—so why not trade the organs of infants for a nice Lamborghini?" - Fr. Robert Barron

Robert Barron is of course entitled to think what he wants.

However, although a Christian myself, I completely reject reasoning that argues human beings have dignity, rights, or value only on the condition that there is a God, and in particular, exclusively the Biblical God. Atheists are just as capable of moral or ethical behavior and respect for their fellow humans as non-atheists are. And many of the psychotic monsters of history (including contemporary Islamo-fascist terrorists, the witch hunters of Salem, and the Spanish Inquisitors) claimed religious reasons for their inhumane actions.

Sorry Quite...absent God, there is no objective morality. Atheism is by definition the absence of God and objective morality. In atheism, there is only survival of their sperm vs someone else's...their is only natural selection...so drop the atheist pretense of morality. An atheist claiming the high ground of morality is merely a half-assed atheist.

How do you explain an atheist who exhibits higher moral and ethical standards than someone who claims faith? How do you account for religious wars? Are intolerant, self-righteous religious zealots good neighbors?

Do you think that people always live in ways that follow the logical ends of their stated beliefs?

No. Quite often, neither in a manner that reflects their beliefs nor, the expectations or prejudices of others. That is the point.

Ok, so take that, and go back and reread what I posted. Because right now, you are arguing a completely different issue than Fr. Barron is.

I disagree. I believe that you are not being genuine in your "defense" of Barron's statement. His statement does reflect a contrast between those of faith and those without faith. Furthermore, I believe you are misrepresenting the word "God" in his statement as organized religion.

Folks, I quote Richard Dawkins here describing the atheist world view...his is not exclusive...but representative:

"In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. . . . DNA neither knows nor cares. DNA just is. And we dance to its music."

To go from this to statements of; or pretense toward; moral behavior is completely illogical and hypocritical. There can be no moral judgments or actions; because, there is no morality; no good, no evil; there is just life. There are no Gods, no purpose, no goal-direct forces....no life after death; when we die we are dead and gone...we are at an end...embrace the horror guys...there is no foundation for ethics, no meaning of life and no free will....Now, you can imagine or pretend that there are these sort of things; concepts like morality; but they have no objective foundation or validity....it's just an illusion...or really a delusion to follow such a myth in a naturalistic world.

Now, have any of you guys seen that fourth video? This group is a bunch of ghouls; soul-less, pitiless, without mercy; lacking any form of human empathy. I cannot believe any of you on here can support spending one dime on this organization...they are the latter day version of the grave robbers in a Mary Shelly novel.

If you believe there is nothing above man no God or other higher power then really and truly there is no reason for anything other than what you want. My morality is no better than anyone elses and I have no right to criticize any one for anything. It's all relative. This kind of thing is what happens.

[Weegle777 78]

Honestly, if science came out and said that until a baby reaches about 4-5 years old, (when a child actually becomes aware and memory function starts accumulation of past events), the child isn't fully human, would those that believe in abortion have an issue with euthanasia on these 4-5 year olds?

Because wasn't it science that deemed the fetus a non-human until a certain growth stage?

Serious question.

[alexava 6,973]

To those who have no problem with this practice I have two questions:

1. If you had a baby that died shortly after birth would you be OK with selling it's body parts for medical use/research?

2. Are you donating your own body or possible organ reuse or medical research?

1. I would absolutely want their body parts used for medical use and/or research. My dead baby's body parts are serving no purpose in a coffin or cremation furnace.

2. I am indeed an organ donor.

1. Me too. 2. Me too.

[Mims44 1,869]

Honestly, if science came out and said that until a baby reaches about 4-5 years old, (when a child actually becomes aware and memory function starts accumulation of past events), the child isn't fully human, would those that believe in abortion have an issue with euthanasia on these 4-5 year olds?

Because wasn't it science that deemed the fetus a non-human until a certain growth stage?

Serious question.

I'd be cool with it, hell you all can kill your children when they are 10 if ya want

Gonna make it that much easier for my kids to rise to the top if more of the competition is dead.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

I'm curious how issues will be handled if abortions are made illegal. You never hear anyone speak about that.

Welfare. You see a ton of complaints about welfare as far as food benefits and medical benefits. You will also have to think about things such as daycare. If there is no abortion then that is going to rise. Like some love to point out, lot of things work when you don't work. Do we pay for children's medical bills up till a certain age? Plenty of good families that worked hard that went into medical bankruptcy trying to provide a child with healthcare. If abortion were to be outlawed I would expect to never see a child suffer from malnutrition nor ever have problems with medical access or funding. I think it would be just as cruel to allow a child to suffer from hunger and disease. So what do you do about nutrition and medical treatment of the child?

Adoption. There are people that want to adopt. Yet it is a very very difficult process. Many American families are going outside of the United States to adopt children. I have linked stories on here where people purposefully blocking financially successful people (stable mentally also) from adopting based on the fact they were either single, homosexual couples, or even just their age. What will be done about these roadblocks. There will be more children. Where do they go till adopted? Who pays for them until they are adopted? Are the birth mothers completely wiped out of the adoption process and who decides where the children go? What are the standards that will be expected to be met to be adopted. So how will this be handled?

Miscarriages. Now this one will be interesting, and will have to be of a concern. If abortion is illegal then a miscarriage will be considered murder. This means that when your wife, daughter etc etc has a miscarriage they will now be subject to an investigation and potentially murder charges. No more sorry for your loss from the doctors. While grieving your family will have to answer questions after question after question about your lifestyle and if it played a role in the miscarriage. Many unfortunate mothers will not only feel the natural depression and self doubt they would with a miscarriage. They will now be put on trial for them also. No miscarriage can ever be treated as anything but a potential crime from that day onward. Guess here is also where the lifestyle habits of the mother will play in also (smoking, drinking, drugs, nutrition etc). How do we handle that? Charge the mother with battery and then attempted murder if birth defect occurs followed by murder if a miscarriage happens? What about those occupations that are believed to have an association with higher rates of miscarriage? If a woman is pregnant do we force them to give up their career and financial stability? What will the rules for companies be... not going to be able to just fire women for getting pregnant, and if the occupation could lead to a miscarriage then they can't be there.

Mothers themselves. How will we deal with those during the 9 months. Some will try and miscarriage the child themselves. Some will try and obtain abortions through illegal methods. If you do some research in countries that have bans you will see that in teens that pregnancy is correlated with a high suicide rate. Believe in El Salvador 57% of teen suicides are from pregnancy. So what do we do with those mothers. Try and convict the first two of attempted murder and put them in jail under the tightest guard till the baby is born? Then they server out the rest of their sentence. How about the mothers that would commit suicide? Do they go to jail? Access and funding to mental health is poor as it is, and getting poorer in many states. Many states, such as Alabama have done away with all of its facilities. Then there is cost of doctors. Cause pretty much all anti-depressants are a no no for pregnant women and will endanger the development of the fetus. So its gonna have to be a facility with constant monitoring and CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) until that child is born.

Medical personnel. How are we going to handle the ones that will break the law. Because you know there will be physicians/nurses that have the skill to perform abortions and will do so. In the United States there will be a huge black-market for abortions. Not just the performance of them, but also for the drugs. The United States can't regulate illicit drugs as it is. So now how are you going to keep Plan B off the streets or any of the drugs of that are used for common ailments (like Cytotec...stomach ulcers) which can be used to induce an abortion?

Then what are you going to do about birth control? Are you going to make sex education a mandatory class in the school system so all children have at least some form of sex education that is based on anatomy and physiology with absolutely no getting out of it, no religion in it, and no abstinence vs contraception bias? Are we going to pay for the birth control of those that can't afford them be it with condoms or the pill? Like it or not sex provides physical and mental health benefits and is shown to be important in a healthy relationship. So given its medical benefits I doubt you are going to be able to outlaw sex in unmarried couples. What about if you are like my sister and your that .01% that even if used properly the pill can fail on? or if the condom breaks even though used properly? Do we make those companies financially responsible? What about those guys that hate condoms. Guy slips it off during intercourse and gets a woman pregnant? Are we going to become stricter about fathers taking responsibility for their offspring? What kind of penalties will he face? Lots of things will have to be addressed and changed in regards to birth control if you make abortion illegal. How are you going to address that?

And I will get you guys have the fun of doing your own research, which is easy to do. You will find that most studies show that in instances of banned versus legal abortion that the laws have almost no effect on rates, in fact the rate actually goes up in countries with banned abortion. These countries also suffer more death of women (believe the last study showed about 47,000 I read) and 8.5 million more women with medical complications. Like the abortion rates in the United States have dropped a average of 12.5% in all bout two states since 2010, regardless of the regulations on abortions of those states (article is on this board somewhere). This is a quote from an older one involving the WHO (organization not the band)

“We now have a global picture of induced abortion in the world, covering both countries where it is legal and countries where laws are very restrictive,” Dr. Paul Van Look, director of the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, said in a telephone interview. “What we see is that the law does not influence a woman’s decision to have an abortion. If there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html?_r=0

So I am curious how people think all these issues (and no telling how many more) are going to be addressed? Who is going to regulate and investigate? Where is the funding going to come from? How are you going to enforce many of these things?

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Honestly, if science came out and said that until a baby reaches about 4-5 years old, (when a child actually becomes aware and memory function starts accumulation of past events), the child isn't fully human, would those that believe in abortion have an issue with euthanasia on these 4-5 year olds?

Because wasn't it science that deemed the fetus a non-human until a certain growth stage?

Serious question.

I would not support that. I have already stated elsewhere my full thoughts on abortion and why I can't be pro-life without being a hypocrite. Also highly doubt your scenario will ever occur.

How about this one, since we are tossing out scenarios.

A new disease appears, apparently genetically engineered by someone as a weapon but we don't know who. It is estimated that 40% of the United States population is immune, but they are still carriers with a potential to spread the disease through fluid exchange. It is passed down through genetics. Works alot like HIV. So 60% of the population is at risk. It takes about 4 months to run its course and it results in death and is painful. There is no cure and there is no vaccination yet.

Unfortunately whoever developed the disease was a genius and we discover that in a human fetus it mutates. The child will be 100% likely to have it and in these children the disease now becomes airborne. Besides that the children are perfectly healthy and will live out normal lives. Only problem is they will kill off about 60% of the United States alone.

So do we abort these children and do we use parts of them for research to try and find a cure and a vaccination?

Oh, and noone's entire family is immune. So everyone will lose a wife, daughter, son, parent, or husband.. perhaps multiples. The introduction of the disease was to whites in middle, upper middle, and rich families. Most likely occurred in certain occupations and clubs. Patient zero is believed to have contracted it through the drinking water at an upscale country club in the suburbs of Atlanta while there on business.

[japantiger 4,051]

I'm curious how issues will be handled if abortions are made illegal. You never hear anyone speak about that.

Welfare. You see a ton of complaints about welfare as far as food benefits and medical benefits. You will also have to think about things such as daycare. If there is no abortion then that is going to rise. Like some love to point out, lot of things work when you don't work. Do we pay for children's medical bills up till a certain age? Plenty of good families that worked hard that went into medical bankruptcy trying to provide a child with healthcare. If abortion were to be outlawed I would expect to never see a child suffer from malnutrition nor ever have problems with medical access or funding. I think it would be just as cruel to allow a child to suffer from hunger and disease. So what do you do about nutrition and medical treatment of the child?

Adoption. There are people that want to adopt. Yet it is a very very difficult process. Many American families are going outside of the United States to adopt children. I have linked stories on here where people purposefully blocking financially successful people (stable mentally also) from adopting based on the fact they were either single, homosexual couples, or even just their age. What will be done about these roadblocks. There will be more children. Where do they go till adopted? Who pays for them until they are adopted? Are the birth mothers completely wiped out of the adoption process and who decides where the children go? What are the standards that will be expected to be met to be adopted. So how will this be handled?

Miscarriages. Now this one will be interesting, and will have to be of a concern. If abortion is illegal then a miscarriage will be considered murder. This means that when your wife, daughter etc etc has a miscarriage they will now be subject to an investigation and potentially murder charges. No more sorry for your loss from the doctors. While grieving your family will have to answer questions after question after question about your lifestyle and if it played a role in the miscarriage. Many unfortunate mothers will not only feel the natural depression and self doubt they would with a miscarriage. They will now be put on trial for them also. No miscarriage can ever be treated as anything but a potential crime from that day onward. Guess here is also where the lifestyle habits of the mother will play in also (smoking, drinking, drugs, nutrition etc). How do we handle that? Charge the mother with battery and then attempted murder if birth defect occurs followed by murder if a miscarriage happens? What about those occupations that are believed to have an association with higher rates of miscarriage? If a woman is pregnant do we force them to give up their career and financial stability? What will the rules for companies be... not going to be able to just fire women for getting pregnant, and if the occupation could lead to a miscarriage then they can't be there.

Mothers themselves. How will we deal with those during the 9 months. Some will try and miscarriage the child themselves. Some will try and obtain abortions through illegal methods. If you do some research in countries that have bans you will see that in teens that pregnancy is correlated with a high suicide rate. Believe in El Salvador 57% of teen suicides are from pregnancy. So what do we do with those mothers. Try and convict the first two of attempted murder and put them in jail under the tightest guard till the baby is born? Then they server out the rest of their sentence. How about the mothers that would commit suicide? Do they go to jail? Access and funding to mental health is poor as it is, and getting poorer in many states. Many states, such as Alabama have done away with all of its facilities. Then there is cost of doctors. Cause pretty much all anti-depressants are a no no for pregnant women and will endanger the development of the fetus. So its gonna have to be a facility with constant monitoring and CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) until that child is born.

Medical personnel. How are we going to handle the ones that will break the law. Because you know there will be physicians/nurses that have the skill to perform abortions and will do so. In the United States there will be a huge black-market for abortions. Not just the performance of them, but also for the drugs. The United States can't regulate illicit drugs as it is. So now how are you going to keep Plan B off the streets or any of the drugs of that are used for common ailments (like Cytotec...stomach ulcers) which can be used to induce an abortion?

Then what are you going to do about birth control? Are you going to make sex education a mandatory class in the school system so all children have at least some form of sex education that is based on anatomy and physiology with absolutely no getting out of it, no religion in it, and no abstinence vs contraception bias? Are we going to pay for the birth control of those that can't afford them be it with condoms or the pill? Like it or not sex provides physical and mental health benefits and is shown to be important in a healthy relationship. So given its medical benefits I doubt you are going to be able to outlaw sex in unmarried couples. What about if you are like my sister and your that .01% that even if used properly the pill can fail on? or if the condom breaks even though used properly? Do we make those companies financially responsible? What about those guys that hate condoms. Guy slips it off during intercourse and gets a woman pregnant? Are we going to become stricter about fathers taking responsibility for their offspring? What kind of penalties will he face? Lots of things will have to be addressed and changed in regards to birth control if you make abortion illegal. How are you going to address that?

And I will get you guys have the fun of doing your own research, which is easy to do. You will find that most studies show that in instances of banned versus legal abortion that the laws have almost no effect on rates, in fact the rate actually goes up in countries with banned abortion. These countries also suffer more death of women (believe the last study showed about 47,000 I read) and 8.5 million more women with medical complications. Like the abortion rates in the United States have dropped a average of 12.5% in all bout two states since 2010, regardless of the regulations on abortions of those states (article is on this board somewhere). This is a quote from an older one involving the WHO (organization not the band)

“We now have a global picture of induced abortion in the world, covering both countries where it is legal and countries where laws are very restrictive,” Dr. Paul Van Look, director of the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, said in a telephone interview. “What we see is that the law does not influence a woman’s decision to have an abortion. If there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.”

http://www.nytimes.c...rtion.html?_r=0

So I am curious how people think all these issues (and no telling how many more) are going to be addressed? Who is going to regulate and investigate? Where is the funding going to come from? How are you going to enforce many of these things?

No intention to try to refute each point you make...your basic premise seems to be "if we can't save every one of the 1.2m aborted each year; then we can't save any of them; so let's continue to kill them all". So any rational person would outright reject that premise on its face. We have a moral obligation to try to address every one...we will likely fail...however, that is no premise or excuse to murder them all.

[alexava 6,973]

http://wnep.com/2015/07/30/ohio-dad-admits-to-throwing-trash-into-dead-babys-room-to-cover-up-smell/

this is a subject i usually stay away from. I am no moral expert. no scientist or lawyer. i do support limits on term length but not sure where to draw the line. but no one against abortion has any input on what to do with over a million unwanted babies every year. i have to go with prevention on this one. the sooner the better.

[Mims44 1,869]

http://wnep.com/2015...cover-up-smell/

this is a subject i usually stay away from. I am no moral expert. no scientist or lawyer. i do support limits on term length but not sure where to draw the line. but no one against abortion has any input on what to do with over a million unwanted babies every year. i have to go with prevention on this one. the sooner the better.

Is there any factual evidence for the real number? I've seen anywhere from 250k a year to multiple millions a year.

Is there any sort of record keeping as far as just numbers of legal abortions performed each year? (I know we can't count the illegal self abortions unless they are caught.)

[alexava 6,973]

http://wnep.com/2015...cover-up-smell/

this is a subject i usually stay away from. I am no moral expert. no scientist or lawyer. i do support limits on term length but not sure where to draw the line. but no one against abortion has any input on what to do with over a million unwanted babies every year. i have to go with prevention on this one. the sooner the better.

Is there any factual evidence for the real number? I've seen anywhere from 250k a year to multiple millions a year.

Is there any sort of record keeping as far as just numbers of legal abortions performed each year? (I know we can't count the illegal self abortions unless they are caught.)

i have no idea. i was going off an earlier post in this thread. good question though.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

I'm curious how issues will be handled if abortions are made illegal. You never hear anyone speak about that.

Welfare. You see a ton of complaints about welfare as far as food benefits and medical benefits. You will also have to think about things such as daycare. If there is no abortion then that is going to rise. Like some love to point out, lot of things work when you don't work. Do we pay for children's medical bills up till a certain age? Plenty of good families that worked hard that went into medical bankruptcy trying to provide a child with healthcare. If abortion were to be outlawed I would expect to never see a child suffer from malnutrition nor ever have problems with medical access or funding. I think it would be just as cruel to allow a child to suffer from hunger and disease. So what do you do about nutrition and medical treatment of the child?

Adoption. There are people that want to adopt. Yet it is a very very difficult process. Many American families are going outside of the United States to adopt children. I have linked stories on here where people purposefully blocking financially successful people (stable mentally also) from adopting based on the fact they were either single, homosexual couples, or even just their age. What will be done about these roadblocks. There will be more children. Where do they go till adopted? Who pays for them until they are adopted? Are the birth mothers completely wiped out of the adoption process and who decides where the children go? What are the standards that will be expected to be met to be adopted. So how will this be handled?

Miscarriages. Now this one will be interesting, and will have to be of a concern. If abortion is illegal then a miscarriage will be considered murder. This means that when your wife, daughter etc etc has a miscarriage they will now be subject to an investigation and potentially murder charges. No more sorry for your loss from the doctors. While grieving your family will have to answer questions after question after question about your lifestyle and if it played a role in the miscarriage. Many unfortunate mothers will not only feel the natural depression and self doubt they would with a miscarriage. They will now be put on trial for them also. No miscarriage can ever be treated as anything but a potential crime from that day onward. Guess here is also where the lifestyle habits of the mother will play in also (smoking, drinking, drugs, nutrition etc). How do we handle that? Charge the mother with battery and then attempted murder if birth defect occurs followed by murder if a miscarriage happens? What about those occupations that are believed to have an association with higher rates of miscarriage? If a woman is pregnant do we force them to give up their career and financial stability? What will the rules for companies be... not going to be able to just fire women for getting pregnant, and if the occupation could lead to a miscarriage then they can't be there.

Mothers themselves. How will we deal with those during the 9 months. Some will try and miscarriage the child themselves. Some will try and obtain abortions through illegal methods. If you do some research in countries that have bans you will see that in teens that pregnancy is correlated with a high suicide rate. Believe in El Salvador 57% of teen suicides are from pregnancy. So what do we do with those mothers. Try and convict the first two of attempted murder and put them in jail under the tightest guard till the baby is born? Then they server out the rest of their sentence. How about the mothers that would commit suicide? Do they go to jail? Access and funding to mental health is poor as it is, and getting poorer in many states. Many states, such as Alabama have done away with all of its facilities. Then there is cost of doctors. Cause pretty much all anti-depressants are a no no for pregnant women and will endanger the development of the fetus. So its gonna have to be a facility with constant monitoring and CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) until that child is born.

Medical personnel. How are we going to handle the ones that will break the law. Because you know there will be physicians/nurses that have the skill to perform abortions and will do so. In the United States there will be a huge black-market for abortions. Not just the performance of them, but also for the drugs. The United States can't regulate illicit drugs as it is. So now how are you going to keep Plan B off the streets or any of the drugs of that are used for common ailments (like Cytotec...stomach ulcers) which can be used to induce an abortion?

Then what are you going to do about birth control? Are you going to make sex education a mandatory class in the school system so all children have at least some form of sex education that is based on anatomy and physiology with absolutely no getting out of it, no religion in it, and no abstinence vs contraception bias? Are we going to pay for the birth control of those that can't afford them be it with condoms or the pill? Like it or not sex provides physical and mental health benefits and is shown to be important in a healthy relationship. So given its medical benefits I doubt you are going to be able to outlaw sex in unmarried couples. What about if you are like my sister and your that .01% that even if used properly the pill can fail on? or if the condom breaks even though used properly? Do we make those companies financially responsible? What about those guys that hate condoms. Guy slips it off during intercourse and gets a woman pregnant? Are we going to become stricter about fathers taking responsibility for their offspring? What kind of penalties will he face? Lots of things will have to be addressed and changed in regards to birth control if you make abortion illegal. How are you going to address that?

And I will get you guys have the fun of doing your own research, which is easy to do. You will find that most studies show that in instances of banned versus legal abortion that the laws have almost no effect on rates, in fact the rate actually goes up in countries with banned abortion. These countries also suffer more death of women (believe the last study showed about 47,000 I read) and 8.5 million more women with medical complications. Like the abortion rates in the United States have dropped a average of 12.5% in all bout two states since 2010, regardless of the regulations on abortions of those states (article is on this board somewhere). This is a quote from an older one involving the WHO (organization not the band)

“We now have a global picture of induced abortion in the world, covering both countries where it is legal and countries where laws are very restrictive,” Dr. Paul Van Look, director of the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, said in a telephone interview. “What we see is that the law does not influence a woman’s decision to have an abortion. If there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.”

http://www.nytimes.c...rtion.html?_r=0

So I am curious how people think all these issues (and no telling how many more) are going to be addressed? Who is going to regulate and investigate? Where is the funding going to come from? How are you going to enforce many of these things?

No intention to try to refute each point you make...your basic premise seems to be "if we can't save every one of the 1.2m aborted each year; then we can't save any of them; so let's continue to kill them all". So any rational person would outright reject that premise on its face. We have a moral obligation to try to address every one...we will likely fail...however, that is no premise or excuse to murder them all.

My basic premise is who and when will someone address these type of issues if we are going to make abortions illegal. Pretty much give the same response you did... avoid the issue and claim the questions are asked to maintain a kill em all mentality.

Fix those issues and others and I'm all on board for banning abortions with the exceptions of rape, incest, or medical needs of the mother.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

http://wnep.com/2015...cover-up-smell/

this is a subject i usually stay away from. I am no moral expert. no scientist or lawyer. i do support limits on term length but not sure where to draw the line. but no one against abortion has any input on what to do with over a million unwanted babies every year. i have to go with prevention on this one. the sooner the better.

Exactly, and noone wants you asking the questions that will need to be solved.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

http://wnep.com/2015...cover-up-smell/

this is a subject i usually stay away from. I am no moral expert. no scientist or lawyer. i do support limits on term length but not sure where to draw the line. but no one against abortion has any input on what to do with over a million unwanted babies every year. i have to go with prevention on this one. the sooner the better.

Is there any factual evidence for the real number? I've seen anywhere from 250k a year to multiple millions a year.

Is there any sort of record keeping as far as just numbers of legal abortions performed each year? (I know we can't count the illegal self abortions unless they are caught.)

i have no idea. i was going off an earlier post in this thread. good question though.

The CDC reports over 730,000 in a year. That number certainly north of that as reporting is not mandatory.