A Question for those "in the know"

[DivisionN 102]

On the opening touchdown drive for Auburn, Jeremy completed an inside slant pass to Duke to the one-yard-line. Immediately Gus turned to Lashlee and, very animatedly starts letting him have it, complete with arm gestures as if someone ran the wrong route or the wrong play was called. Rhett gives Johnson an earful when he comes in after scoring the TD. Does anyone know what that was about?

[thaitopher 807]

Just guessing, but I think Johnson changed the play at the line of scrimmage. Weren't we still in the scripted play mode at that point in the game?

[fasttimes 356]

i had the same question. i wondered if gus didn't want Duke getting the ball that early since he had been in the dog house a bit, but that idea seem pretty childish. Thaitopher's explanation seems much more probable.

[alabamabrown14 9]

Looked like Johnson(appears RL may have signaled a different play) changed the play and Duke was supposed to run a corner route. I re-watched the game and Duke was one on one with the corner and would have been wide open for the touchdown. after the play was changed the DB who manned up on Ricardo dropped back in coverage to help.

[ALTiger 16]

interesting...

[Barnacle 9,064]

Looked like Johnson(appears RL may have signaled a different play) changed the play and Duke was supposed to run a corner route. I re-watched the game and Duke was one on one with the corner and would have been wide open for the touchdown. after the play was changed the DB who manned up on Ricardo dropped back in coverage to help.

This appears to be right from the body language used between Lashlee and Malzahn, and then Lashlee and Johnson. Although there was still man-to-man coverage on Louis, even after the play changed. I think Malzahn/Lashlee wanted the corner, and I think Johnson called it in wrong.

[tigerman1186 537]

I don't think the 'scripted' plays were in use....usually those are set up with a specific situation...starting on the 25 yard line, or 30, I'm not so sure they wanted to use them after the interception...but I could very easily be wrong....just a thought...

[mustache eagle 2,406]

My guess is the scripted plays are out the window when your on their doorstep in that particular situation. Pick up the scripted plays on the next series?

[jared52 4,354]

So what we've learned here is... no one here is really "in the know", just "in the guess".

[AUbritt 611]

So what we've learned here is... no one here is really "in the know", just "in the guess".

Nah, we learned that everyone is "in the know," but no one is in the know.

[AUEngineer2016 407]

Here is the play in question. Notice that Louisville is in man coverage with a single safety over the top (i.e. Cover 1) out of a 3-3-5 defensive front. At the beginning of the play, the middle and weak side linebackers both come on a blitz, while the strong side drops back into a flat zone (likely spying Johnson in case he tried to scramble). This defense leaves corners on an island, requiring them to cover a reciever with little to no help over the top, and is vulnerable to deep passes on the outside as well as quick hitches. Throwing over the middle is dangerous because there are 3 defenders who can make the play: the corner covering the reciever, the safety coming in to help over the top, and the strong side linebacker jumping the pass underneath. In this case, the throw works out, as none of the 3 are able to make the play, but something like a corner or an out route would have been a much less risky pass.

I will post a diagram later of the play.

After the play, here is Gus talking to Rhett. Unfortunately, we can't see Gus's mouth, so we don't know what he said, but Rhett appears to say something to the effect of "I don't know, I didn't call that":

Before Johnson gets to the sidelines, Rhett appears to be talking to Gus about what he is going to talk to Johnson about:

And we see that when Lashlee does talk to Johnson, he uses the same motions he was when talking to Gus. Looking at Rhett's motions while talking to JJ after the TD, it's pretty clear that Rhett is informing him why Duke was supposed to be running a corner route on the play.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,368]

Nice work.

[VicTree 143]

It looked like if he had hit Duke on a quick out he would have walked into the endzone, since the corner had his back turned.

Very nice gifs, by the way!

[thaitopher 807]

Here is the play in question. Notice that Louisville is in man coverage with a single safety over the top (i.e. Cover 1) out of a 3-3-5 defensive front. At the beginning of the play, the middle and weak side linebackers both come on a blitz, while the strong side drops back into a flat zone (likely spying Johnson in case he tried to scramble). This defense leaves corners on an island, requiring them to cover a reciever with little to no help over the top, and is vulnerable to deep passes on the outside as well as quick hitches. Throwing over the middle is dangerous because there are 3 defenders who can make the play: the corner covering the reciever, the safety coming in to help over the top, and the strong side linebacker jumping the pass underneath. In this case, the throw works out, as none of the 3 are able to make the play, but something like a corner or an out route would have been a much less risky pass.

I will post a diagram later of the play.

After the play, here is Gus talking to Rhett. Unfortunately, we can't see Gus's mouth, so we don't know what he said, but Rhett appears to say something to the effect of "I don't know, I didn't call that":

Before Johnson gets to the sidelines, Rhett appears to be talking to Gus about what he is going to talk to Johnson about:

And we see that when Lashlee does talk to Johnson, he uses the same motions he was when talking to Gus. Looking at Rhett's motions while talking to JJ after the TD, it's pretty clear that Rhett is informing him why Duke was supposed to be running a corner route on the play.

I think Malzqhn is giving Rhett the location of the closest Waffle House and he is angry because they are out of waffles. Rhett responds by saying he doesn't know why Waffle House is out of waffles, ask Garner why Waffle House is out of waffles and Rhett is asking Johnson why is Waffle House out of waffles, and Johnson is thinking wtf, I need to order some waffles to go at half time. Rhett tells Johnson to go straight then take a right to get to the nearest Waffle House.

[T cell 5]

Maybe since Duke drew double (nearly triple) coverage they would have preferred JJ hit the back shoulder fade to the receiver up top (can't tell who on my phone). Prob a little safer. The gesticulations by Coach RL suggest this IMHO.

[1auburn1 1,120]

Here is the play in question. Notice that Louisville is in man coverage with a single safety over the top (i.e. Cover 1) out of a 3-3-5 defensive front. At the beginning of the play, the middle and weak side linebackers both come on a blitz, while the strong side drops back into a flat zone (likely spying Johnson in case he tried to scramble). This defense leaves corners on an island, requiring them to cover a reciever with little to no help over the top, and is vulnerable to deep passes on the outside as well as quick hitches. Throwing over the middle is dangerous because there are 3 defenders who can make the play: the corner covering the reciever, the safety coming in to help over the top, and the strong side linebacker jumping the pass underneath. In this case, the throw works out, as none of the 3 are able to make the play, but something like a corner or an out route would have been a much less risky pass.

I will post a diagram later of the play.

After the play, here is Gus talking to Rhett. Unfortunately, we can't see Gus's mouth, so we don't know what he said, but Rhett appears to say something to the effect of "I don't know, I didn't call that":

Before Johnson gets to the sidelines, Rhett appears to be talking to Gus about what he is going to talk to Johnson about:

And we see that when Lashlee does talk to Johnson, he uses the same motions he was when talking to Gus. Looking at Rhett's motions while talking to JJ after the TD, it's pretty clear that Rhett is informing him why Duke was supposed to be running a corner route on the play.

I think Malzqhn is giving Rhett the location of the closest Waffle House and he is angry because they are out of waffles. Rhett responds by saying he doesn't know why Waffle House is out of waffles, ask Garner why Waffle House is out of waffles and Rhett is asking Johnson why is Waffle House out of waffles, and Johnson is thinking wtf, I need to order some waffles to go at half time. Rhett tells Johnson to go straight then take a right to get to the nearest Waffle House.

This is the most plausible explanation I've seen so far.

[cole256 17,084]

There's no way a corner route is a less risky pass on this particular play

[alexava 6,973]

Nice work.

absolutely

[AUEngineer2016 407]

There's no way a corner route is a less risky pass on this particular play

Maybe not a corner, but an out route definitely would be. Duke has the corner backpeddling, and the outside corner on the play would've been preoccupied with the WR on the outside. The safety would be too far inside to make a play, as would the strong side linebacker.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Nice work.

absolutely

^These

[AUEngineer2016 407]

Okay, found some time and got my diagram done. Here's the first picture, i.e. what actually happened.

KEY: Blue/Orange = Auburn Player, Gray/Red = Louisville Player, Red/Red = Defensive zone, Black line between players = man coverage, orange lines = pass pattern

Notice where the slot reciever on the right's route takes him - not only will he be covered by the strong safety in man coverage, but (assuming that the LB and Safety both get to their zones) the throw will have to be made between two zones. Most likely what JJ saw pre-snap on this play was that Duke had a mismatch by being covered man-to-man with either a SS or a OLB, depending on which one came on a blitz. Watch JJ's head as the play progresses:

Notice how he immediately looks at Duke and stares him down until he makes his throw? He probably never even saw the strong side backer drop back into a zone. What most likely happened is that JJ saw a mismatch pre-snap, audibled Duke into a slant, and decided before the play even began that he was going to throw it to Duke.

Now, here's where I stop going off of evidence and start going off of my NCAA14 experience. If you don't like conjecture, stop reading now.

Essentially, the offense is running a play known in NCAA and Madden as "Deep Attack", the only differnece being the pattern run by Roc (quick hitch instead of a flare out pattern). What's confusing to me is that the play is generally thought of as a long pass pattern, something most suitable for a 15-20 yard play. We're running it at the 11. The problem that creates is that with so many recievers attacking deep, we essentiall have nobody available for a check down pass should Jeremy start to feel the pressure. Chandler Cox and Roc's patterns are designed to attack a zone, which you can see towards the end of the play as Roc has nobody around him, and the 2 fade routes are meant to be thrown aganst man when the QB feels his reciever can go up and get the ball, but Duke's post pattern here doesn't make a lot of sense. By the time he gets open on it, he will be back near the safeties, and it will take a damn good throw and catch to just keep it from being picked off, much less caught, and that's assuming you can throw it before the LB can come underneath the route.

Here's what I think was drawn up pre snap:

Given the situation, the deep out pattern for Duke seems much more appropriate. It will still try to take advantage of man coverage, but this time it makes sure that he will be one on one with his defender, in this case a SS (read: mismatch). The fade route to the weak side of the field in this situation is not so much meant to be a viable option, but rather a decoy that will draw the man defender away from the primary target, Duke. Should the defense have lined up in a zone, it still allowed for a dump-off pass to Cox or Roc, and should the deep out not be open or should Ray beat his man off the line, it allows for an attempt to hit him on the fade for a TD. Gus was most likely frustrated at Lashlee because he knew that the best place to attack a Cover 1 is on the outside of the field, not the center, and he knew that they had a play called to attack the outside.

In the future, JJ needs to be more careful about when he audibles and what he audibles to. For example, if he wanted to have an option for a slant pattern on this play, I would have suggested having Ray run the slant while Cox ran a flare/wheel pattern, and not touching the deep out/fade combination on the right side of the field. That would have given him an option to attack the center of the field in the case of cover 2, 2 options on the outside in case of cover 1, and 2 dump off options in case of cover 3/4.

[doc4aday 1,887]

I am now in the know and do not have any idea of what it is I am supposed to know! I just do not have a clue, but know sooner or later I will know what it is I am supposed to know. Do you know what it is?

[ShocksMyBrain 9,368]

AUEngineer and Stat need to team up. Impressive work.

[3rdgeneration 6,469]

AUEngineer is going to fail his classes if he keeps playing so much Madden! Lol

[cole256 17,084]

I'm just not sure about an out route there either. It's a VERY dangerous without having a sideline to protect you. And if the safety is super instinctive he's a big threat as well. But who knows, we really don't know how the defender would react to an out route.