Opining all things Gus (Merged)

[Strychnine 1,803]

15 hours ago, alexava said:

I believe it is the case. Some players don't have enough strengths to fit any strategy. 

 

I want that to be the case, but I see no evidence of it.  That was the 4th season under a head coach that is supposed to be an offensive genius, with at least 4 years of solid top-10 recruiting.  The offense was effective against teams that they were superior to, and it struggled to put up 20 points against every good defense it faced.  If Plan A was unsuccessful, Plan A was continued until it either was successful or the game was over.  If Gus were tailoring the offense to the players on the roster, the offense would have been passing more aggressively.  Does that not seem like the best way to utilize a QB that is accurate in short-intermediate routes, with decent WR's (and a crop of freshmen that were making an impact)?

[I_M4_AU 7,961]

3 hours ago, Strychnine said:

 

I want that to be the case, but I see no evidence of it.  That was the 4th season under a head coach that is supposed to be an offensive genius, with at least 4 years of solid top-10 recruiting.  The offense was effective against teams that they were superior to, and it struggled to put up 20 points against every good defense it faced.  If Plan A was unsuccessful, Plan A was continued until it either was successful or the game was over.  If Gus were tailoring the offense to the players on the roster, the offense would have been passing more aggressively.  Does that not seem like the best way to utilize a QB that is accurate in short-intermediate routes, with decent WR's (and a crop of freshmen that were making an impact)?

The bolded statement is the area of Gus' coaching philosophy that (I hope) will change with the new OC.  It is difficult to recognize something is wrong with the game plan when the people around you think exactly like you do, it seems that there was no real in game analysis when things were not going well.  A good coach can recognize when to adjust the game plan when needed. The essence of the good coach is to recognize when that point is and that is a difficult thing to pin point.

One of my favorite sayings about being a realist:

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.

Gus' in game philosophy needs to be more realistic.

[Strychnine 1,803]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

The bolded statement is the area of Gus' coaching philosophy that (I hope) will change with the new OC.  It is difficult to recognize something is wrong with the game plan when the people around you think exactly at you do, it seems that there was no real in game analysis when things were not going well.  A good coach can recognize when to adjust the game plan when needed. The essence of the good coach is to recognize when that point is and that is a difficult thing to pin point.

One of my favorite sayings about being a realist:

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.

Gus' in game philosophy needs to be more realistic.

 

I think that is the ultimate flaw in the Gus\Lashlee partnership.  Lashlee made sense to me when Gus brought him, as I expected Gus wanted someone that understood exactly what he wanted done and would do it.  However, that promotes a stagnant echo chamber of thought when the two top voices have a master/apprentice relationship, especially when they have been intertwined as long as those two.

[alexava 6,973]

53 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

 

I want that to be the case, but I see no evidence of it.  That was the 4th season under a head coach that is supposed to be an offensive genius, with at least 4 years of solid top-10 recruiting.  The offense was effective against teams that they were superior to, and it struggled to put up 20 points against every good defense it faced.  If Plan A was unsuccessful, Plan A was continued until it either was successful or the game was over.  If Gus were tailoring the offense to the players on the roster, the offense would have been passing more aggressively.  Does that not seem like the best way to utilize a QB that is accurate in short-intermediate routes, with decent WR's (and a crop of freshmen that were making an impact)?

Which game did this happen with the qb you mentioned available and uninjured. 

[alexava 6,973]

My disappointment in Gus is not determining in preseason what he determines in game #3~5 every year. I do blame a qb thin roster on him but not injuries. 

[Strychnine 1,803]

11 minutes ago, alexava said:

Which game did this happen with the qb you mentioned available and uninjured. 

 

Which game did what happen?  The continuous repetition of Plan A?

[aujeff11 6,243]

5 hours ago, bigbird said:

And @lionheartkc 's point is proven...

I didn't use rumor or "half baked stats."

[lionheartkc 6,150]

26 minutes ago, alexava said:

1 hour ago, Strychnine said:

If Plan A was unsuccessful, Plan A was continued until it either was successful or the game was over. 

Which game did this happen with the qb you mentioned available and uninjured. 

This. 

Unfortunately there was no Plan B, because once the key to Plan A was unavailable the cupboard was bare. Not to say the fact that there was no possibility for Plan B wasn't a failure in and of itself, but I'm not ready to call it a failure in game planning/play calling ability. You can only do so much without the necessary parts.

While we are currently looking at what will likely be a winning scenario for the team and the fans, it is a little sad to me, because Gus will never be able to regain the faith of some fans, because whatever gains we make in Offense, going forward, will be credited to the new OC.

[bigbird 60,580]

7 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

I didn't use rumor or "half baked stats."

Okay

[AUnMS 120]

1 hour ago, alexava said:

My disappointment in Gus is not determining in preseason what he determines in game #3~5 every year. I do blame a qb thin roster on him but not injuries. 

This is what frustrates me with CGM's coaching.  I don't understand how he can spend so much time with skill players in practices in the spring and early fall and not know how to use their skill sets best in his system in the first few games.

[Strychnine 1,803]

19 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

This. 

Unfortunately there was no Plan B, because once the key to Plan A was unavailable the cupboard was bare. Not to say the fact that there was no possibility for Plan B wasn't a failure in and of itself, but I'm not ready to call it a failure in game planning/play calling ability. You can only do so much without the necessary parts.

While we are currently looking at what will likely be a winning scenario for the team and the fans, it is a little sad to me, because Gus will never be able to regain the faith of some fans, because whatever gains we make in Offense, going forward, will be credited to the new OC.

 

The key to Plan A was available against both Clemson and Texas A&M, assuming you are referring to Sean White as the key.  However, that was not my point.  Plan A against Clemson was what?  Was Plan A abandoned in favor of any one of the QB's when they had some success in the game?  That kind of thing is my point, and it was only a part of an overall point about stubbornness.  Plan A was clearly ineffective, and it was obvious before halftime.  What did we see in the 2nd half?  More Plan A.  Gus even gave Plan A a double-down after the game, until someone apparently staged an intervention of common sense.

Gus can easily regain the faith of the fans, and he can do so by winning consistently.  He can do so by being the offensive genius he is supposed to be.  If Gus hires the right OC, and the offense becomes consistently effective again, that will be to Gus' credit for hiring the right OC.  I am not naive enough to believe that any OC is going to be autonomous under Gus, or that Gus will not be heavily involved in the offense.  I want him to be heavily involved in the offense; that is what he was hired for.  What I want to see is an OC that brings some different ideas and experience to the table, and a collectively better offense.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

Gus can easily regain the faith of the fans, and he can do so by winning consistently.  He can do so by being the offensive genius he is supposed to be.  If Gus hires the right OC, and the offense becomes consistently effective again, that will be to Gus' credit for hiring the right OC.  I am not naive enough to believe that any OC is going to be autonomous under Gus, or that Gus will not be heavily involved in the offense.  I want him to be heavily involved in the offense; that is what he was hired for.  What I want to see is an OC that brings some different ideas and experience to the table, and a collectively better offense.

Gave it a like mainly for this part. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

7 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

The key to Plan A was available against both Clemson and Texas A&M, assuming you are referring to Sean White as the key.  However, that was not my point.  Plan A against Clemson was what?  Was Plan A abandoned in favor of any one of the QB's when they had some success in the game?  That kind of thing is my point, and it was only a part of an overall point about stubbornness.  Plan A was clearly ineffective, and it was obvious before halftime.  What did we see in the 2nd half?  More Plan A.  Gus even gave Plan A a double-down after the game, until someone apparently staged an intervention of common sense.

There was no plan A for Clemson... There was no plan at all for Clemson. I blame that on Gus wasting too much time trying to make John something that he is not.

8 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

Gus can easily regain the faith of the fans, and he can do so by winning consistently.  He can do so by being the offensive genius he is supposed to be.  If Gus hires the right OC, and the offense becomes consistently effective again, that will be to Gus' credit for hiring the right OC.  I am not naive enough to believe that any OC is going to be autonomous under Gus, or that Gus will not be heavily involved in the offense.  I want him to be heavily involved in the offense; that is what he was hired for.  What I want to see is an OC that brings some different ideas and experience to the table, and a collectively better offense.

While I follow your logic, and agree with your points, there is a decent sized faction of the fan base who has decided Gus sucks and they are never going to give him credit for improvement... for them it will always be the new OC that fixed everything, and if the new OC ever fails, it will be Gus's fault once again. 

[Strychnine 1,803]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

There was no plan A for Clemson... There was no plan at all for Clemson. I blame that on Gus wasting too much time trying to make John something that he is not.

While I follow your logic, and agree with your points, there is a decent sized faction of the fan base who has decided Gus sucks and they are never going to give him credit for improvement... for them it will always be the new OC that fixed everything, and if the new OC ever fails, it will be Gus's fault once again. 

 

There was indeed a Plan A for Clemson, and it was adhered to throughout the game.  That it was an idiotic plan that consisted of absolute madness at its core, was obviously the result of habitual abuse of hallucinogenic substances, or is insulting to the intelligence of most to even be called a plan does not change the fact that it was a plan.  Your point about Franklin is probably valid, but it also reinforces the crux of mine:  that Gus frequently suffers from stubbornness and tunnel vision.  That is what I see as his biggest flaw, and I am hoping that a fresh voice from outside his umbrella can help him with that.

As for the fanbase, an accurate generalization is that fans are obviously fickle.  That is no less true for Auburn than it is any other team.  If Gus (and the OC) is successful, then their voices will be irrelevant (and likely silent).  If Gus (and the OC) fails, their voices will still be irrelevant as I think Gus has already reached the point where he either succeeds or is invited to seek accommodations elsewhere.  Personally, I want Gus to succeed because he is currently the head coach, and his success means Auburn's success.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

There was indeed a Plan A for Clemson, and it was adhered to throughout the game.  That it was an idiotic plan that consisted of absolute madness at its core, was obviously the result of habitual abuse of hallucinogenic substances, or is insulting to the intelligence of most to even be called a plan does not change the fact that it was a plan.

I think the plan was to run the 2013 offense against them, but they couldn't figure out when to cut bait on Franklin, so game time rolled around and they had nothing ready, thus my belief that there really was no plan. If what we saw actually was a plan, then maybe I'm the one who needs to take up hallucinogenic substances, because I can't get a grip on a world where that is a plan.

12 minutes ago, Strychnine said:

Your point about Franklin is probably valid, but it also reinforces the crux of mine:  that Gus frequently suffers from stubbornness and tunnel vision.  That is what I see as his biggest flaw, and I am hoping that a fresh voice from outside his umbrella can help him with that.

Me too, brother... me too.

[Tiger 8,830]

2 hours ago, Strychnine said:

 

I think that is the ultimate flaw in the Gus\Lashlee partnership.  Lashlee made sense to me when Gus brought him, as I expected Gus wanted someone that understood exactly what he wanted done and would do it.  However, that promotes a stagnant echo chamber of thought when the two top voices have a master/apprentice relationship, especially when they have been intertwined as long as those two.

I actually disagree with this bolded part. At no point ever is it acceptable for Auburn to have an OC that was so under-qualified as RL. It worked for a little while but it's just not sustainable to have success in SEC with someone that is trying to figure out how to get it done at a P5 school for the first time in their careers. I'll take ability over familiarity. If you have to sacrifice one for the other IMO you can gain familiarity quicker than you can sharpen your skills to be SEC caliber. JMO though.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, Tiger said:

I actually disagree with this bolded part. At no point ever is it acceptable for Auburn to have an OC that was so under-qualified as RL. It worked for a little while but it's just not sustainable to have success in SEC with someone that is trying to figure out how to get it done at a P5 school for the first time in their careers. I'll take ability over familiarity. If you have to sacrifice one for the other IMO you can gain familiarity quicker than you can sharpen your skills to be SEC caliber. JMO though.

I get what @Strychnine is saying. When we hired Gus, EVERYONE wanted Gus running the offense, so it made perfect sense to have an OC who was basically a conduit... someone who could do whatever Gus needed without having to be taught himself. It worked great until defensive coordinators figured out Gus's scheme.  Now we need someone who can collaborate. 

[alexava 6,973]

Lionhart hit on my point. Clemson game plan sucked rear. But I think we gained 225-250 yards in the 2nd half. Texas AnM we could not protect the qb. The rush was getting to Sean with, sometimes before the  snap touched his hands. From that point until SW and bubba got hurt the offense was rolling. There was no plan b when jf3 and JJ are your QBs. So Clemson is all on Gus.  The game plan sucked but actually improved as the game progressed. AnM our o line did not protect. After that the lineup was tweeted and the light came on for the right takle senior. Those two early loses are my complaints. I expected improvement and got it. SW was pretty good till the injuries. Hell, we were in good shape to beat Uga and go to UAT with a chance to shake it all up. We had a good( potential very good)qb that is made of glass. Lost three RBs prior to the season. I can't blame a lack of plan b when you are forced to use plan b and c players anyway. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

I still say that it ain't necessarily that Defenses figured out Gus' scheme.  His scheme wasn't any more "sophisticated" in 2013 than it is now.  I still think that Gus' scheme needs a Cam or Nick type QB to continuously run it effectively.

The same plays were run in 2013 & 2014 that were run the last 2 years.  The difference is that, whether he could pass great - or merely good enough -, the QB was as dangerous, if not more so, than the RB's.  Defenses having to stay spread out for fear of the QB busting a long one outside opens up the tackles areas for the RB's.  Then add to it, the ability of Cam or the creativity of Nick and Gus' offense (in my opinion) would STILL be unstoppable.

Gus just needed to stockpile those type QB's and he didn't.

Sorry, it's my same argument as preseason and the way this season panned out only made me feel that way stronger.  I would LOVE to see Gus' true offense run by Woody Barrett (if he gets his head right) but I guess that'll never happen now.

[Tiger 8,830]

8 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I get what @Strychnine is saying. When we hired Gus, EVERYONE wanted Gus running the offense, so it made perfect sense to have an OC who was basically a conduit... someone who could do whatever Gus needed without having to be taught himself. It worked great until defensive coordinators figured out Gus's scheme.  Now we need someone who can collaborate. 

I personally would have preferred that conduit not be in his 20s without being a prodigy when we hired him to be OC. I'd rather someone grow into knowing what Gus wants that had already shown to be an asset to a program as OC. AU deserves better at such a critical position on staff than what CGM brought with him IMO. 

[I_M4_AU 7,961]

2 hours ago, alexava said:

Which game did this happen with the qb you mentioned available and uninjured. 

Not Strychnine, but for me the red flag was raised during the Miss St game in 2015.  I know it was SW's first start, but Gus rode that game plan A until the end.  With a little in-game adjustments, we win that game.  At that time, Auburn was still in the hunt for the West if things turned around.  Gus gave up on the season after the LSU game, to me that should never happen that early in the season.

Gus didn't have anyone he would listen to give him any critical input.  I say that because nothing changed the rest of the year, not because I have any inside information.  The next week it was SJSU and Gus, again, rode plan A (albeit a win) to a lack luster performance when considering the competition.  SJSU had a 6-7 record that year and lost to the Lobos of New Mexico, are you kidding me.  With apologies to Golf.

Gus needs to make the right hire for OC so he can learn as much from him as the OC learns from Gus.  It is the only Gus will evolve as head coach.  JMO.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Not Strychnine, but for me the red flag was raised during the Miss St game in 2015.  I know it was SW's first start, but Gus rode that game plan A until the end.  With a little in-game adjustments, we win that game.

I think, if we could get the inside scoop, you would find that they hadn't installed much of a game plan for Sean, at that point, which is why it was so vanilla. I also wouldn't be surprised if Gus was coaching scared re: the pass. That seems to be a trend after a few INTs.

 

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Gus needs to make the right hire for OC so he can learn as much from him as the OC learns from Gus.  It is the only Gus will evolve as head coach.  JMO.

Not just your opinion.  Reality.  This is the case for anyone in any position. You only learn if you surround yourself with new ideas and people who can do some things better than you.

[I_M4_AU 7,961]

5 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I think, if we could get the inside scoop, you would find that they hadn't installed much of a game plan for Sean, at that point, which is why it was so vanilla. I also wouldn't be surprised if Gus was coaching scared re: the pass. That seems to be a trend after a few INTs.

I have no doubt that the game plan was simplistic and that Gus was in shock when he actually pulled the trigger on JJ.  That had to be difficult, but the competitor in the man left for that game.  Just coaching not to lose.  However, I'm more optimistic then ever about the possibilities this new hire brings. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I have no doubt that the game plan was simplistic and that Gus was in shock when he actually pulled the trigger on JJ.  That had to be difficult, but the competitor in the man left for that game.  Just coaching not to lose.  

And don't forget that Sean threw an INT early in the game... That seemed to really rattle Gus.

[I_M4_AU 7,961]

8 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

And don't forget that Sean threw an INT early in the game... That seemed to really rattle Gus.

Oh, I remember.  It was on a broken play and SW stared down his target, not seeing the defender.  They got a big return off of that.  Sadly, it was during the scripted plays Gus likes to do at the first of the game and the rest of the game Gus had nothing.  Another one of his adjustment failures, but I digress.  Things are looking up.