Opining all things Gus (Merged)

[Tigercj 242]

7 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

He actually hit about 50% of his long passes, which did the job. I agree that his durability is a big issue, though most of the time he did slide when he ran. A bigger issue is that, on 3rd down, he throws caution to the wind to get a first. Anyway you look at it, as soon as they started calling the game to play more to his ability, as long as he stayed healthy, the offense moved and we won.

Auburn can be very successful with a healthy game manager at QB... it's just not as fun to watch.

Shaun averaged 8.1 yards per pass hardly a deep threat. You still have to have the deep threat to keep a defense honest. Over past many years everyone kept calling Alabaman QB's game mangers but they still had the deep threat ability to keep defensive from stacking nine in the box. I like Shaun grit and determination but until he develops a deep ball and that is strictly player development then it will be difficult when we play upper level teams. His durability is another issue all together and play call that allows him to run always puts him at risk for injury. I have never said I don't like Shaun but he will not lead us to a championship mainly because of the offense he is in. I hope I am wrong but as long as Gus continues the offense he has had the last two years I cannot see that happening. 

[Tigercj 242]

48 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Gus has shown lately to only pass when he has to.  That's my biggest problem with his play calling.  He doesn't allow his QB to get into the game throwing the ball until he absolutely has to.  I'm all for smash mouth football but sometimes the defense is going to take the run game away just from a numbers games.

I agree and that what makes us to predictable. 

[imaolgatiger 523]

5 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

I'd also add Dyer to that list. What a shame he struggled so mightily off the field. 

 

8 hours ago, Charhair said:

Not knocking Tre because he and Marshall were one of my favorite combos, personally but I do believe Kam entered the Iron Bowl only having been tackled for a loss two times the entire season (pre injury). 

I would take Rudi, Ronnie and Kenny over Tre though in terms of a skill set for a RB.

If Eagle-1 is going back to the 60's...Fullwood is probably the 2nd best back in Auburn history. I'm not sure that Cribbs and Brooks weren't better than Tre. I loved watching Tre but there are several that I liked better. Bo, Fullwood, Caddy....Tre, Rudi, Ronnie, Irons, Cribbs, Brooks, Tate...that's not mentioning Davis, Dyer...we have had some good ones.  

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

It's less a matter of "lack of plays" and more a matter of predictable playcalling. We run the ball 80% of the time on 1st down. We run the same dive play after every first down when we're trying to run tempo. We try to throw the same deep out, go route, or wheel route when put in third and long. These tendencies have to change if Auburn is to have success. 

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

Two reasons:

A. As some have noted, Gus is apparently only interested in passing when he is left with no other options. Auburn runs the ball on first down and throws on third down about 80% of the time, if not more. Not hard to defend if you can be that certain of what's coming. 

B. Lack of complexity in the passing game. When's the last time you saw Auburn run a RB screen? or slant? or target a TE outside the red zone? Gus' passing offense would be considered simplistic at a junior high these days. He seems to rely utterly on the running game's effectiveness to generate space in the passing game. Scheming guys open through route concepts seems utterly alien to him. 

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

Fast thoughts: 

-SW is a good, hard-working kid with MAJOR durability issues. He's also a kid with (for this level) limited physical tools who, quite frankly, will never be genuinely successful in this offense as it is currently constructed. I think SW could be an excellent quarterback in a more pro-style or West Coast system but right now he's a square peg trying to fit into a round, hopelessly simplistic hole. 

-On that note, Gus needs a passing game coordinator. BADLY. There are 13-year olds playing Madden that call more balanced games than Gus right now. It's way easier to list the things Gus doesn't do AT ALL in the passing game than it is to list the things it does well. He doesn't use TEs or RBs to catch passes (barring the RB wheel route that gets trotted out once a game). He doesn't run slants. He doesn't attack the middle of the field. He apparently forgot that bubble screens aren't the only kind of screen. Multi-level route concepts? Using scheme to create physical mismatches in the passing game? Gus doesn't do any of that. It doesn't matter how talented Jarett Stidham might be, he WILL NOT be successful here if Gus' passing philosophy doesn't change. 

[Eagle-1 3,821]

3 hours ago, imaolgatiger said:

 

If Eagle-1 is going back to the 60's...Fullwood is probably the 2nd best back in Auburn history. I'm not sure that Cribbs and Brooks weren't better than Tre. I loved watching Tre but there are several that I liked better. Bo, Fullwood, Caddy....Tre, Rudi, Ronnie, Irons, Cribbs, Brooks, Tate...that's not mentioning Davis, Dyer...we have had some good ones.  

I'm telling you guys on third and three the best three backs we have had in 50 years were Bo, Caddy, and Tre Mason. Go back and watch the drive in the Bama game in 2013 right before halftime for just an example. Then check out his performance in our last drive in that same game. 

[Eagle-1 3,821]

2 hours ago, WarEagleSteve said:

Fast thoughts: 

-SW is a good, hard-working kid with MAJOR durability issues. He's also a kid with (for this level) limited physical tools who, quite frankly, will never be genuinely successful in this offense as it is currently constructed. I think SW could be an excellent quarterback in a more pro-style or West Coast system but right now he's a square peg trying to fit into a round, hopelessly simplistic hole. 

-On that note, Gus needs a passing game coordinator. BADLY. There are 13-year olds playing Madden that call more balanced games than Gus right now. It's way easier to list the things Gus doesn't do AT ALL in the passing game than it is to list the things it does well. He doesn't use TEs or RBs to catch passes (barring the RB wheel route that gets trotted out once a game). He doesn't run slants. He doesn't attack the middle of the field. He apparently forgot that bubble screens aren't the only kind of screen. Multi-level route concepts? Using scheme to create physical mismatches in the passing game? Gus doesn't do any of that. It doesn't matter how talented Jarett Stidham might be, he WILL NOT be successful here if Gus' passing philosophy doesn't change. 

Wish I could like this a hundred times. 

[Eagle-1 3,821]

4 minutes ago, Eagle-1 said:

I'm telling you guys on third and three the best three backs we have had in 50 years were Bo, Caddy, and Tre Mason. Go back and watch the drive in the Bama game in 2013 right before halftime for just an example. Then check out his performance in our last drive in that same game. 

How about also checking out his runs on our last touchdown drive in the championship game against FSU. The guys body of work speaks for itself. My 80 year old Father, who saw them all dating back to Travis Tidwell, swears Tre was second only to Bo. 

 

[Tiger 8,830]

8 hours ago, Eagle-1 said:

How about also checking out his runs on our last touchdown drive in the championship game against FSU. The guys body of work speaks for itself. My 80 year old Father, who saw them all dating back to Travis Tidwell, swears Tre was second only to Bo. 

 

Tre fell forward every time ensuring an additional 1-2 extra yards per carry. A very underrated luxury that only some RBs have. That final TD run he had against FSU was incredible. If there was just a little less time left on the clock we wouldn't have a shadow of disappointment hanging over that memory

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Tre fell forward every time ensuring an additional 1-2 extra yards per carry. A very underrated luxury that only some RBs have. That final TD run he had against FSU was incredible. If there was just a little less time left on the clock we wouldn't have a shadow of disappointment hanging over that memory

That final TD run brings so much pain.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

After settling down from the Sugar Bowl beat down I still feel that we are a QB away from being an upper tier team (top 10).

I was impressed by the improvement of our defense this season. Our offense left our defense out to dry way too often. This is solely my opinion but the 130 something colleges, There may be 20 something with QBs that live up to the hype. Since CGM arrived we've had 2 that met or exceeded expectations.

The fact of the matter is that not all 3,4 or 5*qbs pan out, can't make the transition from high school to college. Shoot, I and most everybody in the nation thought  JJ was a can't miss but he couldn't handle it mentally, cant put that on coaching.

After reflecting on this season, the injury bug really put a bugaboo on this season, SW is a very gritty QB but very fragile, JJ really set us back from last season and JFIII is not a good qb option. We shall see this next season what CGM can do with a Quality QB. I am optimistically believing that QB play will make a huge difference between 10-2  and 8-5.

One more thing, who saw Bubba being Jerome Bettis 2.0? Again this is my observation from Charlotte NC.

War Eagle! And as always IGTBAAT!

[Tiger 8,830]

5 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

That final TD run brings so much pain.

The play in its moment though was one hell of a run - nothing short of awesome IMO. Crunch time, national title game, go ahead TD....if the defense could just have gotten one more stop..........

[aujeff11 6,243]

Just now, Tiger said:

The play in its moment though was one hell of a run - nothing short of awesome IMO. Crunch time, national title game, go ahead TD....if the defense could just have gotten one more stop..........

The whole drive was awesome lol. We started off sluggish and got to fourth and 12 I believe. Ice-in- veins Nick Marshall found Sammie Coates for a 13 yard gain on a slant. Then we did that HUNH crap and started getting rushing yards easily. I believe their mammoth DT was winded and out of the game at this point. And then the 31 yard TD run. If only Gus thought to slow the pace some...

 

 

[Tiger 8,830]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

The whole drive was awesome lol. We started off sluggish and got to fourth and 12 I believe. Ice-in- veins Nick Marshall found Sammie Coates for a 13 yard gain on a slant. Then we did that HUNH crap and started getting rushing yards easily. I believe their mammoth DT was winded and out of the game at this point. And then the 31 yard TD run. If only Gus thought to slow the pace some...

 

 

Maybe this is why Gus seems allergic to up tempo pace now. BCS game PTSD

[lionheartkc 6,150]

On 1/7/2017 at 8:13 PM, Tigercj said:

Shaun averaged 8.1 yards per pass hardly a deep threat. You still have to have the deep threat to keep a defense honest. Over past many years everyone kept calling Alabaman QB's game mangers but they still had the deep threat ability to keep defensive from stacking nine in the box. I like Shaun grit and determination but until he develops a deep ball and that is strictly player development then it will be difficult when we play upper level teams. His durability is another issue all together and play call that allows him to run always puts him at risk for injury. I have never said I don't like Shaun but he will not lead us to a championship mainly because of the offense he is in. I hope I am wrong but as long as Gus continues the offense he has had the last two years I cannot see that happening. 

That 8.1 yards counts his play while injured. He was besting the SEC prior to that and was hitting nearly 50% of his long balls, which was enough to keep defenses honest, but certainly not game breaking by any stretch of the imagination. No one stacked 9 in the box while Sean was healthy. That's why we won when he was.

I agree that our current offense is not optimum for Sean... or Stidham for that matter. Hopefully now that the Franklin experiment is over, we can develop our passing game more thoroughly.

[Bathel 50]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 5:38 PM, johnnyAU said:

I really enjoyed watching Tre follow Prosch into the hole and his interaction with Marshall, but Tre was no game changer at RB. He was pretty good, and had great balance, but not elite.

The trio of Prosch, Tre and Marshall was fun to watch when they had it going. It was nice to have Sammie Coates and Uzomah in the passing game too. 

I would argue that anytime you have an NFL caliber RB with as much heart and effort as Tre had, they are a game changer.  He willed his way to a many 1st downs in the crunch that helped save that season. Granted he wasn't a solo act like Cam was... but I don't think we come near the NC game without him in the lineup that year.

Honestly... I'm even more impressed going back and re-watching Tre his college games.  He had the perfect attitude and gave more than his all.  I think he enjoyed plowing over people like a bulldozer (not that it served him well if is recent issues are brain damage issues caused from all the head blows).

[lionheartkc 6,150]

12 minutes ago, Bathel said:

I would argue that anytime you have an NFL caliber RB with as much heart and effort as Tre had, they are a game changer.  He willed his way to a many 1st downs in the crunch that helped save that season. Granted he wasn't a solo act like Cam was... but I don't think we come near the NC game without him in the lineup that year.

Can you imaging Tre in the same backfield as Cam? I would venture to say that we wouldn't have had so many heart attack games in 2010 if he had been in the backfield instead of Dyer.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

Can you imaging Tre in the same backfield as Cam? I would venture to say that we wouldn't have had so many heart attack games in 2010 if he had been in the backfield instead of Dyer.

Worthy of thought.

However, I (Johnny one-note, again) think that Mssrs. Mason and Marshall truly made each other great. That pair made the running game, alone, anything but one-dimensional.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, AUinTLoosa said:

Worthy of thought.

However, I (Johnny one-note, again) think that Mssrs. Mason and Marshall truly made each other great. That pair made the running game, alone, anything but one-dimensional.

No argument, but Marshall is no Cam and I believe, overall, Tre is better than Dyer. Tre also had that will to win that Cam had.  Doubling up on that could have been very special.

[Tiger 8,830]

Swap Tre with CAP in 2013 and we don't win the SEC IMO

[lionheartkc 6,150]

36 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Swap Tre with CAP in 2013 and we don't win the SEC IMO

Agree.

[Dixie1860 27]

On 1/8/2017 at 9:53 AM, Tiger said:

Maybe this is why Gus seems allergic to up tempo pace now. BCS game PTSD

Has crossed my mind more than once. 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

6 minutes ago, Dixie1860 said:

Has crossed my mind more than once. 

Potentially drifting OT (for a change),

I've already heard Alabama sportscasters blaming UA's loss last night on their scoring too fast.

[Strychnine 1,803]

20 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

No argument, but Marshall is no Cam and I believe, overall, Tre is better than Dyer. Tre also had that will to win that Cam had.  Doubling up on that could have been very special.

 

Marshall and Mason had a chemistry with selling the keeper/handoff that I think often gets overlooked.  One guy hesitates because he is not sure who even has the ball, and one of those two is in the secondary.  Even the camera operators were confused in 2013, a lot.  As you say, Marshall is definitely no Cam, but he was as good or better than Cam at one thing:  he had an extraordinary knack for making something out of nothing.  He did, after all, complete a pass to himself for a nearly 40 yard gain.  I do also believe Mason was better than Dyer.