USA now seen as threat to Europe

[TexasTiger 12,982]

Well, this is interesting company to be seen in-- US, Russia, China and Isis/Al qaeda. Will nationalism in the U.K. and USA lead to greater nationalism in Europe, or encourage Europeans to pull together to strengthen the EU? Thoughts?

"European Council President Donald Tusk has called Donald Trump an existential threat to Europe, in an extraordinary attack on the new US President.

In an open letter delivered to leaders of the 27 member states, Mr Tusk included the new American President as part of a group of “dangerous” challenges facing the bloc, citing Russia, China and radical Islam as other threats."

https://www.google.com/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/donald-tusk-donald-trump-existential-threat-europe-brexit-eu-theresa-may-a7555061.html%3Famp?client=safari

From the WSJ:

"In the letter, Mr. Tusk did not seem to be giving up on the U.S. as a partner for Europe, but made clear the EU would push for Washington to maintain the current international order."

http://blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2017/01/31/eu-council-chief-shifting-u-s-policies-a-threat-to-europes-future/

[AURaptor 1,126]

 Well, it's no longer  business as usual, so at least he's got that much right. 

[japantiger 4,051]

I would say Mr Tusk still hasn't internalized either the Brexit or the recent US election.  I'll take the high road and not call him what he is....looking forward to seeing the EU's plan on how to dig itself out of the hole it's created for itself...

[metafour 4,969]

43 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Well, this is interesting company to be seen in-- US, Russia, China and Isis/Al qaeda. Will nationalism in the U.K. and USA lead to greater nationalism in Europe, or encourage Europeans to pull together to strengthen the EU? Thoughts?

Nationalism in Europe is already rising significantly, with Hungary, Italy, and even the Netherlands seeing a shift towards right-wing politics.  Poland is seeing a massive increase in youth returning to the church and the Balkan states have never had a shortage of nationalism.

[TexasTiger 12,982]

9 minutes ago, metafour said:

Nationalism in Europe is already rising significantly, with Hungary, Italy, and even the Netherlands seeing a shift towards right-wing politics.  Poland is seeing a massive increase in youth returning to the church and the Balkan states have never had a shortage of nationalism.

True. I wonder if there might be a greater sense of a need to be unified to guard against threats they previously relied on the US to take a lead role in? I suspect Germany may choose to grow their military along with France.

[autigeremt 6,660]

It was bound to happen sooner or later. The idea of a global or continental governing body was always difficult when those nations are so diversely different and historically sovereign. All it took was economic disparity or ideological differences to begin the split. 

[homersapien 11,416]

Very disturbing trend. It will result in more nuclear proliferation and destabilization.

The 'doomsday' clock is advancing.

[autigeremt 6,660]

The clock has been ticking for a long time and the reason for it is complicated. Trump being elected president is just a blip in the problems that are going on in the world.

[homersapien 11,416]

3 hours ago, autigeremt said:

The clock has been ticking for a long time and the reason for it is complicated. Trump being elected president is just a blip in the problems that are going on in the world.

I disagree.  

Trump is pushing events in a direction that will make it more difficult to address global problems as well as increase the future likelyhood of war.

He's not a "blip", he is trying to change the fundemental basis of our foreign policy.  Not to say any basic policy is in constant need of improvement or tweeking, but he's not refining or improving upon our traditional strategy, he's trying to execute a U turn.

And it reminds me of his healthcare strategy - big on dismanteling, indifferent to what we replace it with.

[autigeremt 6,660]

I disagree. Imagine that.......

Europe has been dealing with an identity crisis for a decade. The last 5 years of massive immigration and terror attacks have changed the landscape of the EU. Add in the economic collapse of several EU partners and it all leads to their citizens wanting to reign it all in. 

You can blame Trump all you want but it's been simmering for years.

[homersapien 11,416]

8 hours ago, autigeremt said:

I disagree. Imagine that.......

Europe has been dealing with an identity crisis for a decade. The last 5 years of massive immigration and terror attacks have changed the landscape of the EU. Add in the economic collapse of several EU partners and it all leads to their citizens wanting to reign it all in. 

You can blame Trump all you want but it's been simmering for years.

That may be so, but what I am saying is this is not good, for Europe or the US.  It's not like we don't have centuries of history to refer to.

It's analogous to the political division in the US.  Not good.  

Trump didn't create that either, but our president should be trying to reverse these trends, not encourage them.

 

[autigeremt 6,660]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

That may be so, but what I am saying is this is not good, for Europe or the US.  It's not like we don't have centuries of history to refer to.

It's analogous to the political division in the US.  Not good.  

Trump didn't create that either, but our president should be trying to reverse these trends, not encourage them.

 

Trump is playing off the will of the people for which he agrees. Globalism isn't working as well as some had hoped and the reaction to it is nationalism and a reclaiming of sovereign integrity. Leaders try to form and mold a nation to suit their ideals and when it backfires a "revolution" of sorts ensues. That's where we are right now. Good, bad or indifferent.

[homersapien 11,416]

On 2/2/2017 at 0:33 PM, autigeremt said:

Trump is playing off the will of the people for which he agrees. Globalism isn't working as well as some had hoped and the reaction to it is nationalism and a reclaiming of sovereign integrity. Leaders try to form and mold a nation to suit their ideals and when it backfires a "revolution" of sorts ensues. That's where we are right now. Good, bad or indifferent.

I agree with the above.

Except I don't see Trump as a leader.  He is using populism to enhance himself.  Fortunately, that populism is based on a minority of Americans and will ultimately die out as he inevitably fails to deliver what they want. 

Trump has no long term vision or "ideals" to steer the country toward.  Certainly nothing based on an understanding of geopolitical history and philosophy.  All he cares about is his personal ratings.