Who Owns Healthcare?

[TexasTiger 13,006]

Whatever happens from this point on, the GOP owns it in the minds of the public.

http://files.kff.org/attachment/Topline-Kaiser-Health-Tracking-Poll-April-2017

[AURaptor 1,126]

And you saying it makes it so ? 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

27 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

And you saying it makes it so ? 

Didn't read it did you?

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Whatever happens from this point on, the GOP owns it in the minds of the public.

http://files.kff.org/attachment/Topline-Kaiser-Health-Tracking-Poll-April-2017

 

Meh, it also says that more people than not want Trump and the GOP in Congress to stop working on healthcare and move on to other priorities. 

It shows the public's contradictory responses. They don't want them to work on healthcare but at the same time say they own any problems with it going forward.

 

[augolf1716 21,301]

Good lord what a survey

[TexasTiger 13,006]

53 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

 

Meh, it also says that more people than not want Trump and the GOP in Congress to stop working on healthcare and move on to other priorities. 

It shows the public's contradictory responses. They don't want them to work on healthcare but at the same time say they own any problems with it going forward.

 

They don't trust them to fix it.

[autigeremt 6,680]

Trust in D.C. is like hot soup in the Arctic. 

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

3 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Whatever happens from this point on, the GOP owns inherited it in the minds of the public.

http://files.kff.org/attachment/Topline-Kaiser-Health-Tracking-Poll-April-2017

there

[TitanTiger 20,510]

8 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

there

Except that's not what the survey says.

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Except that's not what the survey says.

My thoughts. i don't trust surveys. Do you?

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

46 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

They don't trust them to fix it.

Tell us what you think then. You posted this is the "serious" political forum.

You pretty much agree with the survey?

[TitanTiger 20,510]

36 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

My thoughts. i don't trust surveys. Do you?

Start your own thread then.  This one was about what the general consensus of the American public is on the matter.

And yes, generally speaking, I do trust surveys/polls.  They may not show results that align with my own opinions, but I think when done by reputable polling firms they are reasonably accurate within the margin of error cited.

[TexasTiger 13,006]

1 hour ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Tell us what you think then. You posted this is the "serious" political forum.

You pretty much agree with the survey?

I think the public correctly understands who's in control and has the capacity to pass legislation. The Dems can't stop the Republicans from improving healthcare. Trump promised things their plan clearly didn't do. Paul Ryan has no interest in providing what Trump promised and we are finding Trump could not care less. The public that is willing to see the truth recognizes this.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Who owns healthcare?

I would say a combination of:

Pharmaceutical Industry

Health Insurers

HMOs

AMA

Maybe we should forget about the partisan political implications, the ideological nonsense and, simply balance the interests of society with the limited interests of the industry?

[homersapien 11,439]

13 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

I think the public correctly understands who's in control and has the capacity to pass legislation. The Dems can't stop the Republicans from improving healthcare. Trump promised things their plan clearly didn't do. Paul Ryan has no interest in providing what Trump promised and we are finding Trump could not care less. The public that is willing to see the truth recognizes this.

Thing is, Trump was never speaking on behalf of the Republican Party.  

But they own him now.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

16 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

My thoughts. i don't trust surveys. Do you?

I trust science.  This was done with a scientifically significant sample size.  So yes, I trust it.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

20 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

I think the public correctly understands who's in control and has the capacity to pass legislation. The Dems can't stop the Republicans from improving healthcare. Trump promised things their plan clearly didn't do. Paul Ryan has no interest in providing what Trump promised and we are finding Trump could not care less. The public that is willing to see the truth recognizes this.

It seems there is too much division within the Republican Party on healthcare. And as Ryan stated, they've been the opposition party for so long that they now have to figure out how to govern. The spotlight having been put on how many people would lose healthcare under their plan, they are now forced to improve the existing ACA or drop the issue all together. 

[TexasTiger 13,006]

8 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

It seems there is too much division within the Republican Party on healthcare. And as Ryan stated, they've been the opposition party for so long that they now have to figure out how to govern. The spotlight having been put on how many people would lose healthcare under their plan, they are now forced to improve the existing ACA or drop the issue all together. 

They haven't recruited or elected folks who can govern. They've gotten target locked on an election strategy not a governing strategy.

[AU64 10,122]

6 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I trust science.  This was done with a scientifically significant sample size.  So yes, I trust it.

A survey of people who really don't understand the issues and problems is worthless and is not science.   I'm willing to bet that most of the respondents don't really understand that the current law is headed down the tubes due to insurers pulling out in most states....and rates going through the roof.   Or if they actually follow this stuff closely as they indicate, they are not representative of  the majority of US voters....just walk through any Walmart of Piggly Wiggly and tell me that those shoppers really understand the economics of the ACA. 

This kind of survey in my view is like surveying a good cross section of the US population on whether Pluto is really a planet or not....the survey may be scientific and valid but the responses have no value.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

9 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

They haven't recruited or elected folks who can govern. They've gotten target locked on an election strategy not a governing strategy.

And I'm not certain they will ever learn to govern, at least not in the interest of the majority of Americans. 

[homersapien 11,439]

35 minutes ago, AU64 said:

A survey of people who really don't understand the issues and problems is worthless and is not science.   I'm willing to bet that most of the respondents don't really understand that the current law is headed down the tubes due to insurers pulling out in most states....and rates going through the roof.   Or if they actually follow this stuff closely as they indicate, they are not representative of  the majority of US voters....just walk through any Walmart of Piggly Wiggly and tell me that those shoppers really understand the economics of the ACA. 

This kind of survey in my view is like surveying a good cross section of the US population on whether Pluto is really a planet or not....the survey may be scientific and valid but the responses have no value.

You misunderstand the purpose of these polls.

It has nothing to do with a search for "truth" - at least beyond the truth of what is currently popular opinion.

[AU64 10,122]

8 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You misunderstand the purpose of these polls.

It has nothing to do with a search for "truth" - at least beyond the truth of what is currently popular opinion.

Sure I understand the purpose of them....they are done to provide ammunition for one side or the other in an effort to "prove" that they represent the will of the people.

I am a retiree and got polled pretty regularly last year on a variety of subjects.  Most of the time it took about 3 questions to see what the poll taker is driving at.  As often as not, polls are constructed and conducted in such a way as to substantiate pre-held beliefs of the poll takers.  I trust you understand that.

[homersapien 11,439]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Sure I understand the purpose of them....they are done to provide ammunition for one side or the other in an effort to "prove" that they represent the will of the people.

I am a retiree and got polled pretty regularly last year on a variety of subjects.  Most of the time it took about 3 questions to see what the poll taker is driving at.  As often as not, polls are constructed and conducted in such a way as to substantiate pre-held beliefs of the poll takers.  I trust you understand that.

I don't agree.  I agree with Brad.

Poorly constructed polls may do that, but that doesn't mean all polls are biased.

Valid Polling produces valid results.  And there is a science that determines that validity.

To your point, that same science can be manipulated or abused to do what you describe, which is why reputation is so important for pollsters and why it's important for them to publish their methodology which can be reviewed by independent experts in the science. 

[AU64 10,122]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't agree.  I agree with Brad.

Poorly constructed polls may do that, but that doesn't mean all polls are biased.

Valid Polling produces valid results.  And there is a science that determines that validity.

To your point, that same science can be manipulated or abused to do what you describe, which is why reputation is so important for pollsters and why it's important for them to publish their methodology which can be reviewed by independent experts in the science. 

In an ideal world that is true....this is not an ideal world and dozens, maybe a dozen dozen media companies, political parties and special interest groups conduct polls for the purpose of influencing the general public and Washington politicians.   

Those polls (which are probably the vast majority of polls ) are NOT conducted to gain information.  Their purpose is provide background to help shape public opinion or test focus group questions and thus convince the people ...the general public or politicians....that some point of view is widely held and that they should get on board and support it.   Pardon the cynicism but I've seen enough of it to know what I'm talking about.

[homersapien 11,439]

2 minutes ago, AU64 said:

In an ideal world that is true....this is not an ideal world and dozens, maybe a dozen dozen media companies, political parties and special interest groups conduct polls for the purpose of influencing the general public and Washington politicians.   

Those polls (which are probably the vast majority of polls ) are NOT conducted to gain information.  Their purpose is provide background to help shape public opinion or test focus group questions and thus convince the people ...the general public or politicians....that some point of view is widely held and that they should get on board and support it.   Pardon the cynicism but I've seen enough of it to know what I'm talking about.

No, this is not an "ideal" world which is why I acknowledged many polls are designed to do they things you refer to.

But I think it's important to acknowledge that's not universally true and their are many polls which provide useful, objective and valid information. 

Polls that are designed to influence instead of collecting aren't really polls to start with.  They are frauds.

It's fine to be cynical of polls, but trust me, there are plenty of people willing to invest in polling simply for the information a valid poll can provide.