Sarah Palin was right, Obama was wrong - Natural Gas

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Not sure how this contributes to an argument that fracking is a good long term solution to our energy problems.

again, I would argue that the collateral outweighs the solution - to a problem, the actual presence of, that is debated. 

[homersapien 11,452]

Just now, NolaAuTiger said:

I don't think we will. There's plenty of untapped hydrocarbon areas to last in excess of what we can predict. As of now, offshore drilling in America accounts for an area of only 4%. In other words, 96% of offshore drilling tracts are untouched. 

Yes, like when the discovery and successful well used by Colonel Drake switched us from Whale Oil to Petroleum. Thanks to us drilling proponents, the whales were saved

Apparently I failed to adequately make my point.  I readily concede that a lack of sequestered hydrocarbons is not the issue.  I said that we cannot afford to use all of what we know is there.

The reason is that amount of additional carbon utilization would guarantee catastophic global warming.

 

https://phys.org/news/2016-09-fossil-fuel-reserves-climate-goals.html

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/07/much-worlds-fossil-fuel-reserve-must-stay-buried-prevent-climate-change-study-says

https://www.carbonbrief.org/meeting-two-degree-climate-target-means-80-per-cent-of-worlds-coal-is-unburnable-study-says

etc.......

[homersapien 11,452]

6 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

again, I would argue that the collateral outweighs the solution - to a problem, the actual presence of, that is debated. 

You'll need to rephrase that.  I don't understand what you are saying.

[homersapien 11,452]

I've got to run into town for provisions (as they used to say in the old west).

Back later.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

You'll need to rephrase that.  I don't understand what you are saying.

Sorry. Basically, there is a balancing test at play also (if that makes sense). On one hand, we "could" cut fossil fuel extraction - the collateral being the economic contributions it has, which are immense. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

I've got to run into town for provisions (as they used to say in the old west).

Back later.

I've enjoyed the thread! makes for an interesting topic. Lots of considerations at play. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,174]

This argument could go on for days.  I don't think anybody is against renewable energy sources like solar, wind, hydroelectric but the issue is economic. Natural gas is cheaper and environmentally cleaner than coal, coal is dying because of that. The cost per Kilowatt production of solar and wind in the right areas is approaching the cost of natural gas and it is a matter of time before it will be cheaper. The problem is solar and wind have a hidden cost in that sometimes the wind does not blow or the sun does not shine so you need some way of cheaply storing the energy at peak production times or you need to get the energy from another source when renewable is not producing enough energy in your area.  To overcome this weakness in renewable cleaner energy (not clean just cleaner) we either need a National Grid where one part of the country can supply energy when another can't produce enough or we need a cheap way to store energy.

This is a similar issue that we have with electric cars. Electric motor are more efficient then internal combustion, they accelerate faster but they rely on batteries that don't have enough range and that take to long to re-charge. We need a couple more technological breakthroughs or a constant year after year incremental improvement in batteries and other means of energy storage.  Once we have those improvements you will see a huge change in how we produce energy and the vehicles on the road.  Most of the big energy companies realize this and will be the ones shifting first when it becomes economically viable.

It will happen but till then it is important from a defense perspective that we are not reliant on fuel from countries that are not always our friends.

[homersapien 11,452]

18 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Sorry. Basically, there is a balancing test at play also (if that makes sense). On one hand, we "could" cut fossil fuel extraction - the collateral being the economic contributions it has, which are immense. 

Of course.  There's often a natural tension between what's good for us in the short term vs. what's good for us in the longer term.

But avoiding the inevitable will only make that pain a lot more worse.  Gradual change is always a lot less disruptive than sudden change.

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

On 2/2/2018 at 12:34 PM, homersapien said:

I've got to run into town for provisions (as they used to say in the old west).

Back later.

Don't forget to fill your truck up with cheap gas Brother Homer......just looking out for you. know you are aging. Good stuff you and NOLA. 

[homersapien 11,452]

10 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Don't forget to fill your truck up with cheap gas Brother Homer......just looking out for you. know you are aging. Good stuff you and NOLA. 

To be more precise, 7 gallons of alchol-free gas for my chain saw and 15 gallons of diesel for my tractor.

But it wasn't cheap. (Especially since the diesel wasn't even  "off-road". I was being lazy.)  Then, I forgot to fill my truck on the way home!     I hope there's enough left to get me back to town.

Trust me, the irony was not missed.     

[homersapien 11,452]

Meanwhile,

The Breakneck Rise of China’s Colossus of Electric-Car Batteries

The key to overtaking Tesla by 2020? Lots of government help for EVs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-01/the-breakneck-rise-of-china-s-colossus-of-electric-car-batteries

 

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

To be more precise, 7 gallons of alchol-free gas for my chain saw and 15 gallons of diesel for my tractor.

But it wasn't cheap. (Especially since the diesel wasn't even  "off-road". I was being lazy.)  Then, I forgot to fill my truck on the way home!     I hope there's enough left to get me back to town.

Trust me, the irony was not missed.     

7 gallons for a chain saw?? you are a damn hypocrite tree hater. rapin our forest

[homersapien 11,452]

8 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

7 gallons for a chain saw?? you are a damn hypocrite tree hater. rapin our forest

I prefer to think of it as a sustainable (recycled) carbon harvest from a forest (with a conservation easement on it).  

 

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Meanwhile,

The Breakneck Rise of China’s Colossus of Electric-Car Batteries

The key to overtaking Tesla by 2020? Lots of government help for EVs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-01/the-breakneck-rise-of-china-s-colossus-of-electric-car-batteries

 

Do we need a dust mask on prior to reading an article about China industry. one of my sons recently returned from a business trip there.....lot of nasty industry.  

[homersapien 11,452]

5 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Do we need a dust mask on prior to reading an article about China industry. one of my sons recently returned from a business trip there.....lot of nasty industry.  

True. 

They would undoubtedly tell you that such a short term compromise was necessary to get them to a developed-world status.  It replicates the exact same phase we went through. (Back when we were "Great"?)

But there's little doubt they have a long term perspective.  Its part of their nature.

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I prefer to think of it as a sustainable (recycled) carbon harvest from a forest with a conservation easement on it.  

 

Bet you remember J B. one time head of our beloved Journalism department..........biggest redneck libural i ever met

[homersapien 11,452]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

Bet you remember J B. one time head of our beloved Journalism department..........biggest redneck libural i ever met

Nah, unfortunately, I had more than I could handle in the sciences.  Perhaps I missed my calling.

There's lots of redneck liberals. You just have to look for them.

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

True. 

They would undoubtedly tell you that such a short term compromise was necessary to get them to a developed-world status.  It replicates the exact same phase we went through. 

But there's little doubt they have a long term perspective.  Its part of their nature.

I can see that. be careful with chainsaw. mistakes are not good.

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Nah, unfortunately, I had more than I could handle in the sciences.  Perhaps I missed my calling.

There's lots of redneck liberals. You just have to look for them.

Nope, didn't miss your calling. you where called to be a a**hole whatever and we enjoy it

[homersapien 11,452]

6 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I can see that. be careful with chainsaw. mistakes are not good.

And I've got the scars to prove it.

At least I finally got a smaller saw which (almost) replaces my Husky 61. 

[homersapien 11,452]

Just now, SaltyTiger said:

Nope, didn't miss your calling. you where called to be a a**hole whatever and we enjoy it

I resemble that remark.