Why are we so divided?

[McLoofus 35,182]

10 minutes ago, BigWhiskey91 said:

My bad I should’ve clarified but the comment I quoted was regarding the offensive coaching staff.

I should have interpreted accordingly. 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I should have interpreted accordingly. 

All good man! If you’re like me, probably reading this stuff hours after the fact so I don’t blame you 😂😂😂

[leglessdan 1,934]

See, I don't buy into the whole "finding our identity " idea because we end up continuing to run the same basic stuff with exceptions of a tweak or two to the same basic plays. The times we do get creative and mix it up, we usually win or at least seem competitive. Why go away from it? 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I stand corrected. Sorta. Hah. 

He let Chip do some stuff in the opener last year but most of it went away immediately.

We're throwing to Sal this year. That is probably the main/only positive for me. Other than Bo looking like he will have a chance to be amazing in the right offense. 

Yeah the biggest key for Bo is going to be putting him in the best position to win. I feel like we did a decent job of that against Tulane. Atleast looking at it based on passes by down. In the first half he had 10 passes on first, 10 on second and 9 on third down. He was abysmal on first down (3/10) which isn’t good but I don’t track the plays by down only run vs pass so it is likely they could’ve been deep shots. Typically under Malzahn though, our QBs have the best efficiency on first down. That held true against Oregon where Bo was 8/11 for 116yds and 2TDs I’m first down. 

[bigbird 60,522]

Our identity should be the same year in and year out and it should've been established by year 4

[BigWhiskey91 632]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

Our identity should be the same year in and year out and it should've been established by year 4

You mean you don’t like the QB room circus? 😂

[Barnacle 9,064]

6 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Our identity should be the same year in and year out and it should've been established by year 4

Would help if our coach could figure out his identity as well. Every year it's either giving up the play calling, or taking over the play calling. He's gone back and forth so many times now. Tough for your team to have an identity when your coach can't figure out what kind of coach he want to be. 

[AUApostle 7,651]

4 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Little context here with Dabo. He wasn't given "full support" from the fans. He earned it. It's wasn't something that was a birth right that was owed to him.  His teams developed and got better over the years. He pulled the fan base together being a charismatic leader. He raised the money for his football complex by having a plan in place. He earned it all.

You just laid out why we need to move on from Gus because he is nothing like you said in Dabo.  

...been missing your POV lately.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

None of these guys will challenge Gus or threaten to find a better way of doing things than whatever he wrote in his book 16 years ago. Except maybe Caddy, who is almost certainly being ignored and who will hopefully find a better gig and be the next TWill or TRob. Even so, like you said, he's a first year guy who probably didn't have a lot of other P5 offers yet. So even he probably isn't rocking the boat. 

Dilly might be the next Dabo but he's not here to bite the hand that feeds. 

But yeah. What we have now is the culmination of a steady process of removing any outside ideas or new ways of thinking from the staff. As you, I and other objective observers have been saying for years.

Oh, you forgot Porter, who is a stud with tons of experience. Which is why he coaches the position we don't use. 

Caddy has and like you said is being ignored. Who knows what we have with Dilly? So far all he looks like he has been asked to do is be a rah rah recruiter.

 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

46 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

See, I don't buy into the whole "finding our identity " idea because we end up continuing to run the same basic stuff with exceptions of a tweak or two to the same basic plays. The times we do get creative and mix it up, we usually win or at least seem competitive. Why go away from it? 

You can have a identity and still mix things up.

[keesler 5,924]

3 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Would help if our coach could figure out his identity as well. Every year it's either giving up the play calling, or taking over the play calling. He's gone back and forth so many times now. Tough for your team to have an identity when your coach can't figure out what kind of coach he want to be. 

Flip flops like a politician.  I think that goes back to hiring a HC with only one yr experience at ArkyState.  The training wheels should've been shed 3 yrs ago, but when you continue to stock your staff will green coaches I guess the flip flopping should be expected? 

[I_M4_AU 7,811]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

By year 7, a program should have processes in place that allow a team to maintain some perpetual momentum moving forward.  We don't seem to have this systems in place that allow for this. By now we should understand what type of backs work best in the O, what type of OL are needed for success in the O, and the types of QBs needed to be most successful and recruit accordingly. From my perspective we tend to try and get the best available player irregardless of fit. Doing so makes each year is a mystery of what we will have and see. However, we call and run the same plays no matter personnel. That's foolish. If your recruiting and personnel are going to be flexible, then the plays and calls MUST be as flexible. Otherwise you get the discombobulated, out of sync mess on O we've had the last 5 years. It's a systematic issue that, IMO, isn't fixable with the current HC...no matter how much I support him and want him to have success here.

What I quoted from Bird is what most of us see as the problems that have accumulated over a 7 year stretch as Gus being the HC.This thinking is the way a coach would think and question the performance of a HC if that HC was following the *normal* thought processes of the coaching profession laid down through decades of what works and what doesn’t.  There maybe different techniques involved, but basically the process in tried and true.  This is also the underlying reason for most of the frustration on the board.

26 minutes ago, keesler said:

The only point I was trying to make is that AU's staff has a different mind set.

What Kessler points out is (IMO) what’s going on.  When Gus was hired, I assumed Gus was a normal coach in the way he was going to run the program that specialized in the offensive side of the ball.  Coaching with his recruits in 2013 (on offense) and hitting a home run with Nick Marshall gave everybody hope.  It turns out this may not have been the case.  As a lot of insiders have pointed out, Gus is very stubborn. I just thought he wants to have a say in how his offense was run and still believing he would a have *normal* methodology to maintaining and growing the program.  

What if Gus wants to reinvent the wheel in how he runs the program at Auburn?  What if he relishes in doing things that are not standard to the point of being non-standard?  What if he is the smartest guy in the room?

Some of the coaching axioms do not apply to his coaching style.  The one in particular I am thinking of is “the most improvement in a team is seen between the first and second game”.  I’m not sure we have ever seen that out of a Gus Malzahn coached team.  The man is unorthodox when it comes to running the program at Auburn.  The way he has hired and fired coaches it seems he is coaching in a vacuum of his knowledge on the offensive side of the ball.  No new ideas are allowed in.

This will be my mind set going forward:  He has set himself up to be the smartest guy in the room or looking for a job, but he will do it on his terms.  It will be interesting to see the results.

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

4 minutes ago, AUDevil said:

...been missing your POV lately.

Just waiting till A&M and UF. We will find out where we really are then. Really not much to say.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

4 minutes ago, keesler said:

Flip flops like a politician.  I think that goes back to hiring a HC with only one yr experience at ArkyState.  The training wheels should've been shed 3 yrs ago, but when you continue to stock your staff will green coaches I guess the flip flopping should be expected? 

This is a good point. He has made some good hires on the Defensive side of the ball, but the offensive hires seem to be lacking. Do you think this is due to his arrogance and thinking he is an Offensive Guru? If he hired experienced coaches around him he could have learned a lot to help extradite his growing process. 

[abw0004 10,112]

2 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Just waiting till A&M and UF. We will find out where we really are then. Really not much to say.

Do you have any idea of how Seth Williams is doing?

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

7 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Do you have any idea of how Seth Williams is doing?

According to Gus....He will be out this game....and day to day after that. What he said in last presser I saw.

[bigbird 60,522]

5 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

According to Gus....He will be out this game....and day to day after that. What he said in last presser I saw.

Which means Seth had his arm amputated on Tuesday.

[oracle79 3,569]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

By now we should understand what type of backs work best in the O, what type of OL are needed for success in the O, and the types of QBs needed to be most successful and recruit accordingly. From my perspective we tend to try and get the best available player irregardless of fit. Doing so makes each year is a mystery of what we will have and see. However, we call and run the same plays no matter personnel. That's foolish.

[Gowebb11 9,320]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Which means Seth had his arm amputated on Tuesday.

A lot of people defend Gus and his secrecy about injuries. I’m still waiting for the big game we win because of that. 

[oracle79 3,569]

15 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Nebraska can't recruit use anabolic steroids like they used to. Or, should I say, they can't recruit like the top teams do now.

FIFY. Nebraska was never great at recruiting.  They recruited California and Florida for skill players and local boys for the trenches. Generally they had 5th year seniors on the offensive line who had lived in the weight room for 4 years with Boyd Epley

Frost will get them good again, but not the way they were at their height. And, the bandwagon was premature, it'll take him some time.

[leglessdan 1,934]

36 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

You can have a identity and still mix things up.

Yeah , I mean using it as an excuse to slow starts in lulls throughout the season.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

On 9/10/2019 at 10:33 AM, AU-24 said:

Some of the “distasteful posters” do not like Gus for reasons that have nothing to do with football, so they are very distasteful about his coaching.

What would these be? Because I think you are throwing crap against the wall and hoping something sticks. 

EACH AND EVERY negative thing I've ever seen on this forum about Gus is about his on the field decisions. 

In fact, most who criticize Gus even point out how he runs a tight ship, that players aren't getting into trouble, and that he seems to genuinely love Auburn. 

I have NEVER seen a direct attack on Gus that wasn't about his decisions AS A FOOTBALL COACH. So do tell. Because I don't believe this for ONE INSTANT. 

On 9/10/2019 at 12:26 PM, WeagleTheBeagle said:

Criticism is fine, we are all here because we love talking football.  Personal attacks get old

I'll ask you the same thing. What do you consider a "personal attack?" Because I've certainly never seen anyone directly attacking Gus Malzahn the man and not Gus Malzahn the coach. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two.

[abw0004 10,112]

5 hours ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

I'll ask you the same thing. What do you consider a "personal attack?" Because I've certainly never seen anyone directly attacking Gus Malzahn the man and not Gus Malzahn the coach. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two.

The first part of your post I agree with.  It is just this last part there have been a few instances.  I know one time someone suggested he had Asperger Syndrome.  It was a shock because it came from the most valued poster on here and it floored me.  So much so I reached out to him privately and asked why.  I cant post a link to the comment because he deleted it at my request.  One I will mention is L I G E R said something similar in I believe in the George Pickens recruiting thread.  I may be able to find it but it would take some digging.  For the most part though you are right.  Just a few outliers and those in particular hit home when you have family with special needs and you see what other people say to them when they have no idea of their situation.

Edit:  Found it!  I can't quote it directly because he has been banned.  Page 41 of the Pickens thread though (mods edited the original post, not recently below):

"Sorry, but I’m in professional sales for a living and I understand how to read verbal and nonverbal cues, and not be blindsided on big deals.

But I’m also not paid $7MM/yr not at all appropriate here and will not be tolerated"

[oracle79 3,569]

7 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I know one time someone suggested he had Asperger Syndrome.

Just curious. How is that negative or disparaging? It's a real thing, but of course it's on a scale and a range. Think Sheldon of Big Bang Theory. Definitely Asperger's, and that's not an insult. You seem to have a lot of triggers or trigger words, but I'm not in your shoes either.

[AUFriction 1,179]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

@abw0004 and @AUFriction you guys make some good points but my point is those guys could very well be fantastic coaches in time -- but they were fast tracked to AU. Our HC is already still, apparently, learning on the job and now you throw 3 other main position coaches also learning on the job at this level. The fact that we don't know much about them is exactly my point. AU should nevverrr be in the spot to hire such green guys, as @keesler mentioned above.

Also I'm fairly certain Grimes did recruit Kim/Brahms/etc. I don't think when you're his age you can be considered an unknown. Those are his guys. No argument from me regarding Hand being a bad coach though.

The thing is Gus hired Dilly/Caddy/Burns and their best coaching days are far ahead of them. They have a total of what? 8 years d-1 coaching experience combined, if that? We should not be hiring guys who haven't shown to be studs. Not at a place like Auburn. Not at a place that pays a top 5 salary.

I actually very fundamentally disagree with you here. I'm going to take an industry perspective here. I get that football can sometimes be a little bit of a different animal, but it is, quite frankly, not that different when it comes to understanding personnel decision making. One of the biggest mistakes organizations make is focusing too much on experience. The sports world is especially bad about this. Will Muschamp failed as a coach at Florida, but was hired less than 5 years later to coach another major D1 program. Guys like Lane Kiffin have been discussed for major head coaching jobs despite failing at USC (and to some extent at UT). To some extent, coaches can learn from where they failed and become better as coaches. But, for the most part, many of these guys that are fired from D1 programs lack the necessary personality, mental ability, and/or creativity to succeed as head coaches. So many coaches fail, and, despite the fact that they show no sign that they are going to do anything different at the next school, they get rehired. 

Where am I going with this? Experience is not a good indicator of success. You can have a ton of experience in jobs that you weren't very good at. Maybe your experience started at a time when the sport was different, and you lack the capacity to adapt (hello Les Miles). I kind of see your point on the fact that Gus is still learning. So, since he's still learning, it would potentially help to have some experience around him. Here's the problem... Many of the experienced coaches that are looking for jobs as position coaches or coordinators are those that either failed at or were never able to get hired to head coaching positions. Some coaches do fail for head coach specific problems. But, despite what people think, all coaching requires relatively similar skill sets. Coordinators, position coaches, and head coaches all need to be at least somewhat smart. They need to be adaptable and open to changing their philosophy/approach as better methods, systems, and schemes are developed. If they aren't a natural leader, they need to be devoted to learning key leadership behaviors. They need to understand program culture differences. If they are unable to do those things to the point that it gets them fired, most of them will never be able to. So sure, we could hire a bunch of failed head coaches and long term position coaches to be on our staff. But will Gus really learn anything useful from them? Instead, it makes more sense for him to have mentors that were successful coaches. Instead, part of what will make earlier career head coaches like Gus successful is for them to learn as they go.

Instead, Gus is taking what I think to maybe be the smarter approach. Find the really bright young guys that will one day be successful outside of Auburn's program. Pass on your knowledge as a former coordinator and position coach, and take advantage of having fresh, innovative, and smart minds around you. I think guys has failed at times with the implementation of this however. Lashlee was not particularly smart or innovative. Lindsey was a poor fit with what Gus wanted to do. Still, if executed correctly, I think this approach is actually a really smart one.