The first debate

[wdefromtx 3,159]

8 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

You are a clown and you are a racist and you are Putin's Puppy didn't help lower the bar????  What planet are you on????

Well, the White House has become somewhat of a circus. lol 

 

And his response to denouncing white supremacy was, well.....”unique.” 

[SocialCircle 570]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Yeah, it's everyone's fault but the one person who is actually responsible for our national response.  (And it's not over yet.)

You are a cultist.

I have repeatedly said Trump could have handled this better.  However, there is plenty of blame to go around.  I am fully aware of Trump's faults in this regard, but you hide your head in the sand, for example, when it comes to those governors who put the elderly who had tested positive back into those facilities. 

[SocialCircle 570]

3 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Well, the White House has become somewhat of a circus. lol 

 

And his response to denouncing white supremacy was, well.....”unique.” 

I agree.....as was Biden's denouncing Antifa. 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

6 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Great point. Let's just put the University of Alabama in WV so they can't recruit as well.  

The context that both the NY and NJ governors put elderly who were positive with the virus back into facilities with elderly people who didn't have the virus seems to escape your "context" for some reason.  I wonder why??? This is one reason what you are doing is spinning.  

Let's look at those stats then.  Do you have some reliable stats that show how many people contracted COVID via the method you mention above?  Do they also give us some context as to how early in the pandemic it was happening, since states that started getting cases later would have had the benefit of seeing what happened in earlier situations to make adjustments?  Just wondering why you're hanging your hat on this notion.

[homersapien 11,440]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You're offering "facts" as if just raw numbers speak for themselves.  They don't.  Context matters.  Put Connecticut next to Illinois or Virginia for instance and their numbers plummet.  Same for NJ.  It wouldn't matter who was governor, proximity to the largest city in the US that has the most international flights coming and going from it makes a huge difference.  It's also why almost 30,000 out of the 32,000 cases NY state has are all concentrated in the NYC Metro Area.  Other metro areas (Syracuse, Buffalo, Rochester, Albany) in NY State pale by comparison.

This whole Democratic vs. Republican governor is beyond absurd.  Governors on both sides made critical mistakes (see Florida for example).  

Social is trying desperately to fit a political explanation to our pandemic response state by state.  And we all know why - our overall response as a nation was abysmal.

As you point out, each state had it's on set of timing and circumstances.  What party controlled the governorship of a given state vs. another state is totally irrelevant to how we bungled the response as a country.

And again, it ain't over.

[SocialCircle 570]

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

This whole Democratic vs. Republican governor is beyond absurd.  Governors on both sides made critical mistakes (see Florida for example).  

Social is trying desperately to fit a political explanation to our pandemic response state by state.  And we all know why - our overall response as a nation was abysmal.

As you point out, each state had it's on set of timing and circumstances.  What party controlled the governorship of a given state vs. another state is totally irrelevant to how we bungled the response as a country.

And again, it ain't over.

Completely disagree.  The example about putting people back into facilities after they tested positive is but one example.  Another example is how each governor is handling reopening.  We've also  all seen what the Dem leadership of Nashville did with some selected businesses....keeping them shut down despite the data.  

 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

This whole Democratic vs. Republican governor is beyond absurd.  Governors on both sides made critical mistakes (see Florida for example).  

Social is trying desperately to fit a political explanation to our pandemic response state by state.  And we all know why - our overall response as a nation was abysmal.

As you point out, each state had it's on set of timing and circumstances.  What party controlled the governorship of a given state vs. another state is totally irrelevant to how we bungled the response as a country.

And again, it ain't over.

Yeah.  I mean, Oregon and Washington state both have far lower rates than Texas and Florida.  Do we use SC's method here and conclude that Democratic governors fare better than Republican ones?  Or what about Texas and Florida having 1.5 to 2X higher death rates than liberal California?  

Or is there something going on in all of these situations that has little to nothing to do with political parties?

[homersapien 11,440]

22 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

I have repeatedly said Trump could have handled this better.  However, there is plenty of blame to go around.  I am fully aware of Trump's faults in this regard, but you hide your head in the sand, for example, when it comes to those governors who put the elderly who had tested positive back into those facilities. 

Of course there is "plenty of blame to go around".  It is a very complex problem technically and many - if not most - states struggled with unavailable or inadequate resources, and in many cases obtaining reliable information.

But there is only one person who is accountable for the federal effort, which failed to allocate and provide the required resources to the states.  (We have yet to develop sufficient testing capability/programs.)

And I am not saying that a different POTUS would have necessarily been able to successfully address every instance of inadequate supplies and/or good information,  but Trump made things far worse by 1) his failure to address the problems directly and 2) constantly lying about his failure to do so.

[SocialCircle 570]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Of course there is "plenty of blame to go around".  It is a very complex problem technically and many - if not most - states struggled with unavailable or inadequate resources, and in many cases reliable information.

But there is only one person who is accountable for the federal effort - which failed to allocate and provide the required resources to the states.  We have yet to develop sufficient testing capability.

And I am not saying that a different POTUS would have necessarily been able to successfully address every instance of inadequate supplies and/or good information,  but Trump made things far worse by 1) his failure to addressing the problems directly and 2) constantly lying about his failure to do so.

I hear what you are saying, but it is not what Fauci indicated under oath. 

[DAG 34,016]

21 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Well, the White House has become somewhat of a circus. lol 

 

And his response to denouncing white supremacy was, well.....”unique.” 

Look like you have gotten placed in the crossfire lol. I will say a good bit of Wisconsinites (which also is a battleground state) feels exactly the same way you do. I actually got my absentee ballot today and completed it. I don’t think the debate yesterday swayed many of the middle ground folks one way or another just yet. However, I will say it seems like a slight lean to Biden from my perspective . 

[homersapien 11,440]

3 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Completely disagree.  1) The example about putting people back into facilities after they tested positive is but one example.  2)Another example is how each governor is handling reopening.  

 

1) What was the alternative?   Where the hospitals full at the time?  Was there reason to think nursing homes were much less capable of isolating patients than other facilities?  Was that capability related to Trump's policy of deregulating nursing homes?  https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/disability/news/2020/04/21/483545/trump-administrations-deregulation-nursing-homes-leaves-seniors-disabled-higher-risk-covid-19/

2) Example of what - bad decisions being made by governors?  What was Trump's contribution to this issue?

[homersapien 11,440]

3 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I hear what you are saying, but it is not what Fauci indicated under oath. 

Fauci was trying to maintain a working relationship with Trump by focusing on the positive instead of the negative.  In other words, he was pandering.  It was a mistake on his part.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

29 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Except Biden did not participate in lowering the bar. That's all on one guy. Yet you still implicate Biden. That's trump's entire strategy and I'll give it to him, it's working. He's clowning so many of y'all so badly. 

And hell no Biden didn't just win 3-2. That's the entire logical fallacy that you're falling into. Biden looked about as graceful as a normal adult can while beating down a ******* s*** flinging toddler having a tantrum, but he did indeed beat that toddler down. It's not his fault that he's stuck debating this ******* clown.

You've got to be smarter than this. 

I haven’t implicated Biden, we all know Trump knocked the bar onto the ground. He did hold his s**t together better than I probably could have. Last nights debate was the first one I had to turn off in the middle of it. At one point it was dizzying to listen to both almost yelling at each other at the same time. If many people did the same, then really neither wins. Which is less on Biden than the overall shitshow trump created. If that makes sense. 
 

I guess the measuring stick will be if Biden was able to convince an undecided voter his way or flip a third party voter to vote for him. I’m not sure he really did that. And that isn’t his fault considering it was probably trumps strategy to scream like a banshee so no one could listen to Biden’s points. 
 

There were a few times when Trump set up a perfect opportunity for Biden to hit a homerun. But he didn’t capitalize....But when you are dodging poo, you will miss those chances. 
 

That’s what I mean that there were no winners. Biden clearly is the better person of the two, but everyone was watching the clown during last nights circus. 

[homersapien 11,440]

23 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Let's look at those stats then.  Do you have some reliable stats that show how many people contracted COVID via the method you mention above?  Do they also give us some context as to how early in the pandemic it was happening, since states that started getting cases later would have had the benefit of seeing what happened in earlier situations to make adjustments?  Just wondering why you're hanging your hat on this notion.

It's just like Trump keeps repeating the "China ban" which didn't really have much impact due to the circumstances.  It's a desperate attempt to find something positive their "political tribe" accomplished while finding something negative to criticize the other political tribe.

What they want to overlook was the overall chaos and lack of a coordinated plan to deal with it.

Of course that is a direct result of Trump's refusal to take responsibility as POTUS for creating and executing one.  He even said it:  "I don't take responsibility at all"

He spent more time blaming Obama instead of addressing the problems.

 

[SocialCircle 570]

11 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Fauci was trying to maintain a working relationship with Trump by focusing on the positive instead of the negative.  In other words, he was pandering.  It was a mistake on his part.

More spin

[SocialCircle 570]

10 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I haven’t implicated Biden, we all know Trump knocked the bar onto the ground. He did hold his s**t together better than I probably could have. Last nights debate was the first one I had to turn off in the middle of it. At one point it was dizzying to listen to both almost yelling at each other at the same time. If many people did the same, then really neither wins. Which is less on Biden than the overall shitshow trump created. If that makes sense. 
 

I guess the measuring stick will be if Biden was able to convince an undecided voter his way or flip a third party voter to vote for him. I’m not sure he really did that. And that isn’t his fault considering it was probably trumps strategy to scream like a banshee so no one could listen to Biden’s points. 
 

There were a few times when Trump set up a perfect opportunity for Biden to hit a homerun. But he didn’t capitalize....But when you are dodging poo, you will miss those chances. 
 

That’s what I mean that there were no winners. Biden clearly is the better person of the two, but everyone was watching the clown during last nights circus. 

“Better person” 

By what measure.....number of interruptions or based on name calling or what??

[homersapien 11,440]

12 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I haven’t implicated Biden, we all know Trump knocked the bar onto the ground. He did hold his s**t together better than I probably could have. Last nights debate was the first one I had to turn off in the middle of it. At one point it was dizzying to listen to both almost yelling at each other at the same time. If many people did the same, then really neither wins. Which is less on Biden than the overall shitshow trump created. If that makes sense. 
 

I guess the measuring stick will be if Biden was able to convince an undecided voter his way or flip a third party voter to vote for him. I’m not sure he really did that. And that isn’t his fault considering it was probably trumps strategy to scream like a banshee so no one could listen to Biden’s points. 
 

There were a few times when Trump set up a perfect opportunity for Biden to hit a homerun. But he didn’t capitalize....But when you are dodging poo, you will miss those chances. 
 

That’s what I mean that there were no winners. Biden clearly is the better person of the two, but everyone was watching the clown during last nights circus. 

Biden didn't need to "win", he just needed to avoid losing.

Mission accomplished.

[SocialCircle 570]

15 minutes ago, homersapien said:

1) What was the alternative?   Where the hospitals full at the time?  Was there reason to think nursing homes were much less capable of isolating patients than other facilities?  Was that capability related to Trump's policy of deregulating nursing homes?  https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/disability/news/2020/04/21/483545/trump-administrations-deregulation-nursing-homes-leaves-seniors-disabled-higher-risk-covid-19/

2) Example of what - bad decisions being made by governors?  What was Trump's contribution to this issue?

You know what the first thing the mayor of our small town did after the first reported of this virus in the US? He banned visitors to our assisted living facility. 

[homersapien 11,440]

3 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

More spin

Quote him and I will demonstrate.  Let's compare what he said with what he avoided saying

[homersapien 11,440]

37 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

You know what the first thing the mayor of our small town did after the first reported of this virus in the US? He banned visitors to our assisted living facility. 

Seriously?

And how far down the learning curve did that happen?   Can I assume your small town was not one of the first places in the country to report an infection? 

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

42 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

“Better person” 

By what measure.....number of interruptions or based on name calling or what??

I don't like Biden politically, but he's done nothing to make me think he's a bad person. At least in the realm of the politicians we have. But, have you not seen the way trump acts? It is one thing to be assertive and even bully......but he does everything in such a childish way. He's the leader of the free world, not a Rugrat. 

[homersapien 11,440]

49 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I have repeatedly said Trump could have handled this better.  However, there is plenty of blame to go around.  I am fully aware of Trump's faults in this regard, but you hide your head in the sand, for example, when it comes to those governors who put the elderly who had tested positive back into those facilities. 

How many of our 206,000 deaths to those nursing home residents account for?

I am not putting my head in the sand, you are.

 

 

[TexasTiger 13,006]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

The Commission on Presidential Debates issues statement :

“The Commission on Presidential Debates sponsors televised debates for the benefit of the American electorate. Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues.  The CPD will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.  The Commission is grateful to Chris Wallace for the professionalism and skill he brought to last night’s debate and intends to ensure that additional tools to maintain order are in place for the remaining debates.”

https://www.alabamanews.net/2020/09/30/commission-on-presidential-debates-issues-statement-after-last-nights-trump-biden-debate/

My guess is there will be come mic muting available to future moderators.

Can’t take him anywhere.

[SocialCircle 570]

19 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I don't like Biden politically, but he's done nothing to make me think he's a bad person. At least in the realm of the politicians we have. But, have you not seen the way trump acts? It is one thing to be assertive and even bully......but he does everything in such a childish way. He's the leader of the free world, not a Rugrat. 

I'm not sure the "better person" is involved in weaponizing the FBI against his political foe.  I am also not sure the "better person" makes sure his son enriches his family in Ukraine while being VP, etc. 

I see nothing Trump has done since he has been president that is on that level as it relates to corruption involving his elected position.  

[SocialCircle 570]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Can’t take him anywhere.

If they do this, then they do also need to check to see if either candidate is wired in any way.