The Bible and Abortion

[TexasTiger 12,969]

Are there any other abortion references in the Bible? Does anyone read this as anti-abortion?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biblegateway.com/passage/%3fsearch=Numbers%2b5:11-31&version=NIV&interface=amp

[Grumps 3,704]

I don't know of any references in the Bible to abortion. I don't see this scripture as referencing abortion.

[SaturdayGT 719]

I think "thou shall not kill"  covers any questions regarding abortion...

[autigeremt 6,657]

I’m not sure abortion existed during those times but for a lot of Christians it’s the destruction of life that causes the most resistance. Thou shalt not kill is Old Testament but carries a lot of weight. 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

Jeremiah 1:5 says: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you.

Luke 1:41 says: When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leapt in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Mary was pregnant with Jesus and Elizabeth was pregnant with John the Baptist.  The implication is that what is in the womb is alive and not just a clump of cells. John recognized Jesus each from His mother's womb.  To me this is a clear directive to preserve a baby in the womb.

God knew Jeremiah in the womb. 

While abortion did not exist as we know it back then, it appears to me that God is strongly pro life.

 

Pro choice is a misnomer. The child has no choice.  Pretty sure the baby would choose to live if given the opportunity. 

 

[AU9377 5,000]

25 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Jeremiah 1:5 says: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you.

Luke 1:41 says: When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leapt in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Mary was pregnant with Jesus and Elizabeth was pregnant with John the Baptist.  The implication is that what is in the womb is alive and not just a clump of cells. John recognized Jesus each from His mother's womb.  To me this is a clear directive to preserve a baby in the womb.

God knew Jeremiah in the womb. 

While abortion did not exist as we know it back then, it appears to me that God is strongly pro life.

 

Pro choice is a misnomer. The child has no choice.  Pretty sure the baby would choose to live if given the opportunity. 

 

Is the pill not the same thing?

[bigbird 60,576]

7 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Is the pill not the same thing?

No, not necessarily. There are different types, some block ovulation and some block implantation.

[CoffeeTiger 5,145]

 

11 hours ago, SaturdayGT said:

I think "thou shall not kill"  covers any questions regarding abortion...

But yet many Protestant denominations believe that the death penalty is biblically justified, so it goes beyond just 'thou thall not kill' .

 

I believe the argument to this is that they believe the Bible allows for the government to kill people as punishments for crimes, but as a fetus is innocent it would be sinful to kill it. That leads to the problematic situation of what if the Government is wrong and or abusing it's power? If a government official puts an innocent man to death did he commit murder in God's eyes? 

Is abortion to save the life of the mother murder? The innocent baby did nothing to deserve death, and it's not the baby's fault the mothers health/doby is failing. 

 

[TexasTiger 12,969]

12 hours ago, Grumps said:

I don't know of any references in the Bible to abortion. I don't see this scripture as referencing abortion.

Did you read it?

[AU9377 5,000]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

No, not necessarily. There are different types, some block ovulation and some block implantation.

I agree, but wanted to see how some would separate the two.  My opinion on Abortion is really simple, yet is based on more than one foundation.  I am not in favor of abortion on a personal level.  However, I am not a woman and, within reason, I do not believe that the government has the right to tell a woman what to do in regards to her body. At the point of viability, the discussion becomes about more than her body, but not until that point in time.  Before abortion was legalized, we wasted too much time chasing women and their doctors that performed the procedure.  Young women were often placed in dangerous situations and their health at grave risk attempting to have the procedure.  Trying to find reasons to legislate something based on biblical interpretations is dangerous and I would argue flies in the face of the principles this country was founded upon by many fleeing prosecution by the Church of England.

Overall, I see the arguments concerning abortion to be a waste of time.  Abortion will never be outlawed in this country.  At most, the efforts will result in making it more difficult for those without money and education to make the choice that those with those resources will be free to make. A young woman in Alabama will always be able to drive to Florida for an abortion, provided that she has the resources to get there.

[bigbird 60,576]

17 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I agree, but wanted to see how some would separate the two.  My opinion on Abortion is really simple, yet is based on more than one foundation.  I am not in favor of abortion on a personal level.  However, I am not a woman and, within reason, I do not believe that the government has the right to tell a woman what to do in regards to her body. At the point of viability, the discussion becomes about more than her body, but not until that point in time.  Before abortion was legalized, we wasted too much time chasing women and their doctors that performed the procedure.  Young women were often placed in dangerous situations and their health at grave risk attempting to have the procedure.  Trying to find reasons to legislate something based on biblical interpretations is dangerous and I would argue flies in the face of the principles this country was founded upon by many fleeing prosecution by the Church of England.

Overall, I see the arguments concerning abortion to be a waste of time.  Abortion will never be outlawed in this country.  At most, the efforts will result in making it more difficult for those without money and education to make the choice that those with those resources will be free to make. A young woman in Alabama will always be able to drive to Florida for an abortion, provided that she has the resources to get there.

It's schrodinger's cat.  I choose to believe it is alive as opposed to dead

[bigbird 60,576]

It's okay, @icanthearyou, it's a tough concept and can be confusing. I hope your headache gets better.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

12 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Is the pill not the same thing?

Apparently the Catholics think so. It prevents ovulation for the most part. I saw the post below regarding implantation but I'm not familiar with that one. Short answer is no, not the same thing. I am Southern Baptist from childhood;  attend Destiny Worship Center in Miramar Beach, non denominational but closer to SBC than most.

[AUDub 11,160]

1 minute ago, jj3jordan said:

Apparently the Catholics think so. It prevents ovulation for the most part. I saw the post below regarding implantation but I'm not familiar with that one. Short answer is no, not the same thing. I am Southern Baptist from childhood;  attend Destiny Worship Center in Miramar Beach, non denominational but closer to SBC than most.

Catholic here.

It has to do with the fact that a lot of the drugs utilitized can have the effect of altering the lining of the uterus, preventing implantation. These drugs are not "abortifacients" by design but that's good enough for the traditionalist wing that would like to see people utilizing the pill out of communion with the Church.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

Catholic here.

It has to do with the fact that a lot of the drugs utilitized can have the effect of altering the lining of the uterus, preventing implantation. These drugs are not "abortifacients" by design but that's good enough for the traditionalist wing that would like to see people utilizing the pill out of communion with the Church.

Thanks for the explanation. I think we are all on the same team.

[AU9377 5,000]

20 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Catholic here.

It has to do with the fact that a lot of the drugs utilitized can have the effect of altering the lining of the uterus, preventing implantation. These drugs are not "abortifacients" by design but that's good enough for the traditionalist wing that would like to see people utilizing the pill out of communion with the Church.

Thank you for explaining that.  I have always been amused at the conflicting messages of many traditionalists.  After all, if someone has sex out of wedlock, they are seen as sinners in need of repenting.  However, if a child is the result of this sexual encounter, the child itself is the will of God.  Personally, I don't see God as being nearly as petty as many others seem to believe.  I believe the scripture is very clear as to some things being much more important than petty sins of the flesh.

[CoffeeTiger 5,145]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Did you read it?

To be fair, that particular passage wording is unique to the New International Version of the Bible, and some view it as a mis-translation. Other versions don't specifically mention pregnancy, killing a fetus, or anything and instead frame it as just a test to see if the wife has been having sex with other men where if she has apparently God would cause her belly to expand and she'd get sick from the special concoction, whereas if she wasn't it wouldn't do anything.  

King james and NKJ versions for example don't mention anything about pregnancy. 

[SaltyTiger 7,831]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

To be fair, that particular passage wording is unique to the New International Version of the Bible, and some view it as a mis-translation. Other versions don't specifically mention pregnancy, killing a fetus, or anything and instead frame it as just a test to see if the wife has been having sex with other men where if she has apparently God would cause her belly to expand and she'd get sick from the special concoction, whereas if she wasn't it wouldn't do anything.  

King james and NKJ versions for example don't mention anything about pregnancy. 

I read it this morning and recently in a Bible Project study. Take it pretty much as you explain and do not relate it to abortion. I do find Old Testament law and instruction difficult to study, even worse to try and understand.

[AU9377 5,000]

6 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I read it this morning and recently in a Bible Project study. Take it pretty much as you explain and do not relate it to abortion. I do find Old Testament law and instruction difficult to study, even worse to try and understand.

If someone makes an argument based on Levitical laws, as though they are the present day accepted word of God, I always ask them if they have ever been to a human sacrifice of someone's first born or if they know of someone who stoned their daughter to death for having pre-marital sex.  Then there is the prohibition on having sex while a woman is pregnant... the list goes on and on.  That usually ends the conversation.

[CoffeeTiger 5,145]

58 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

If someone makes an argument based on Levitical laws, as though they are the present day accepted word of God, I always ask them if they have ever been to a human sacrifice of someone's first born or if they know of someone who stoned their daughter to death for having pre-marital sex.  Then there is the prohibition on having sex while a woman is pregnant... the list goes on and on.  That usually ends the conversation.

Old Testament Bible and God is really hardcore. Make one mistake or do one thing wrong and God would strike you dead where you stood just for the shock factor, sending bears to maul teenagers for making fun of a prophet's bald head, mandating that women were basically property like cattle. 

[TexasTiger 12,969]

7 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

To be fair, that particular passage wording is unique to the New International Version of the Bible, and some view it as a mis-translation. Other versions don't specifically mention pregnancy, killing a fetus, or anything and instead frame it as just a test to see if the wife has been having sex with other men where if she has apparently God would cause her belly to expand and she'd get sick from the special concoction, whereas if she wasn't it wouldn't do anything.  

King james and NKJ versions for example don't mention anything about pregnancy. 

I suppose the question is who’s interpretation of the most original text is accurate. I don’t know the answer to that.

[aubiefifty 16,842]

22 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Did you read it?

in the last kingdom they preform that ritual because a man claims his wife cheated and it was supposed point that out?

[TexasTiger 12,969]

6 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

in the last kingdom they preform that ritual because a man claims his wife cheated and it was supposed point that out?

20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

[aubiefifty 16,842]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

you can find that clip i bet on youtube. father beocca was one of my favorite characters..................

[abw0004 10,125]

21 hours ago, bigbird said:

It's okay, @icanthearyou, it's a tough concept and can be confusing. I hope your headache gets better.

As many facepalms as he does daily, he/she has to have at least one black eye by now.