The U.S. Government Lied For Two Decades About Afghanistan

[autigeremt 6,652]

On 8/17/2021 at 10:18 AM, AU9377 said:

We had every right and I would argue a duty to go into Afghanistan and destroy terrorist training capabilities that aided in the 9/11 attack on this country.  We simply shouldn't have remained there for 20 years after that was done.  I don't know of anyone that actually believed it was a good idea to be there for at least 15 of those 20 years.  Of course, over the past several days, some of them have pretended to believe otherwise for the sake of purely political argument. 

When people are occupied, they usually resent the occupier to some degree, unless the occupier is paying for their loyalty.  This has been true going back to the Roman empire.  What amazes me the most are the Americans that have known this was coming, but are whining now about the time it is taking to get them out of the country.  They should have gotten themselves out of the country months ago.  All the same, we will get them out.  As for the Afghans, I have no problem with relocating those that worked closely with us on the ground.  However, that doesn't mean everyone that wants a new place to call home.  I find it hard to believe that the number is 20,000 or anything remotely close to that.  Done venting now.  LOL

We should have laid waste to the Taliban, got Bin Laden and got out. 

[AU9377 4,977]

11 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

We should have laid waste to the Taliban, got Bin Laden and got out. 

I don't disagree.  However, that would be like someone invading Georgia with the intent to get rid of the Baptists.  When most of the population is more sympathetic to the Taliban or the Baptists than they are the invading army, doing so isn't possible without literally killing everyone.

[DKW 86 7,431]

It shouldnt, he and his buddies gave everything they had to support the war their govt  judged to be worthy of a fighting. It wasnt as we now all know, but that is no reflection on them. They answered the call and served their nation with honor

Edited August 26, 2021 by DKW 86

[jj3jordan 2,056]

37 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I don't disagree.  However, that would be like someone invading Georgia with the intent to get rid of the Baptists.  When most of the population is more sympathetic to the Taliban or the Baptists than they are the invading army, doing so isn't possible without literally killing everyone.

What a pathetic and irrational comparison. 

[homersapien 11,393]

On 8/23/2021 at 1:37 AM, AU9377 said:

Doesn't that gloss over the revolution of 1979, after which the Shah fled? The Islamic revolution was upset that the Shah had adopted so many modern ways of doing things.  Prior to 1979, Iranians were the most educated open society in that part of the world (not including Israel).  I'm not so sure that it matters the form of government they have if that government is required to gain approval for its actions from religious clerics.  The problems associated with radical Islam are, unfortunately, likely to grow over the next few decades. Governments propped up by oil wealth will see less and less revenue, making their ability to provide for the needs of those they govern more difficult.

The Shah was a U.S. puppet.  The leader he replaced was democratically elected.

And many in Iran rightly saw the Shah as an American puppet who was oppressing them. 

Who knows how history would have unfolded if we simply refrained from backing a coup to install an authoritarian puppet?

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by homersapien

[autigeremt 6,652]

22 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The Shah was a U.S. puppet.  The leader he replaced was democratically elected.

And many in Iran rightly saw the Shah as an American puppet who was oppressing them. 

Who knows how history would have unfolded if we simply refrained from backing a coup to install an authoritarian puppet?

 

We can't seem to get out of our own way because of the true leader of a nation........... $$$$$$$$

[AUDub 11,158]

23 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The Shah was a U.S. puppet.  The leader he replaced was democratically elected.

And many in Iran rightly saw the Shah as an American puppet who was oppressing them. 

Who knows how history would have unfolded if we simply refrained from backing a coup to install an authoritarian puppet?

 

Don't forget Britain's role in that whole fiasco. 

[AU9377 4,977]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

The Shah was a U.S. puppet.  The leader he replaced was democratically elected.

And many in Iran rightly saw the Shah as an American puppet who was oppressing them. 

Who knows how history would have unfolded if we simply refrained from backing a coup to install an authoritarian puppet?

 

I used to be idealistic when it came to the ability of people to self govern.  When it comes to that area of the world, i have come to the opinion that some people, for a myriad of reasons, are either incapable or are not prepared to do just that.    We criticize the British colonial system, yet the countries of Europe, U.K. and other nations thought of as Western countries are finding ourselves needing to do everything for these areas of the world that was once done by colonial powers.  We simply call it more acceptable names.  We play a balancing game with the entire middle east.  At some point, one of us will tire of appeasing everyone.  Our better nature today is to use diplomacy, economic incentive and in some cases military support to prop up governments.  There will come a time when that isn't enough.  If Iran ever launches an attack on Israel, we will be forced to cut the population of Iran in half. I don't enjoy saying that, but I do believe the day is coming that we will be forced to do more than what we have been doing for the past 40 plus years.

[AUDub 11,158]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

We should have laid waste to the Taliban, got Bin Laden and got out. 

There is no laying waste to the Taliban. Fact is there are far too many hidey holes to ever completely root them out.

It's also very important to remember who their benefactor is. The Taliban are a proxy for Pakistan. If things got too hot they'd simply pop across the border to regroup.

[AU9377 4,977]

2 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Don't forget Britain's role in that whole fiasco. 

We really assumed Britain's role post WWII. 

[AUDub 11,158]

1 minute ago, AU9377 said:

We really assumed Britain's role post WWII. 

We instilled the Shah for British interests more than ours. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by AUDub

[autigeremt 6,652]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

There is no laying waste to the Taliban. Fact is there are far too many hidey holes to ever completely root them out.

It's also very important to remember who their benefactor is. The Taliban are a proxy for Pakistan. If things got too hot they'd simply pop across the border to regroup.

For goodness sake dude! You know what the hell I meant. Do I have to spell out a 10 page report for you? lol

[AUDub 11,158]

Just now, autigeremt said:

For goodness sake dude! You know what the hell I meant. Do I have to spell out a 10 page report for you? lol

Point is this was always going to end up the same way. We just kicked the can down the road for 2 decades delaying the inevitable and making the shareholders of Lockheed, Raytheon and other arms of the MIC rich. 

[autigeremt 6,652]

Just now, AUDub said:

Point is this was always going to end up the same way. We just kicked the can down the road for 2 decades delaying the inevitable and making the shareholders of Lockheed, Raytheon and other arms of the MIC rich. 

Now we will make China and their manufacturers richer with access to over a trillion in lithium deposits. 

[AU9377 4,977]

2 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Now we will make China and their manufacturers richer with access to over a trillion in lithium deposits. 

That is very true.  Inevitable, but true/

[AUDub 11,158]

3 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Now we will make China and their manufacturers richer with access to over a trillion in lithium deposits. 

Neocon talking point. Ask yourself why they're still in the ground. 

[autigeremt 6,652]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

Neocon talking point. Ask yourself why they're still in the ground. 

Pretty common to think that if we are out of the way the Taliban can offer an opportunity in exchange for money and military assets. I have no idea about Neocon talking points....just know there's A LOT of useful mineral opportunities there including lithium which is worth a lot now. 

[Leftfield 2,617]

37 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

...including lithium which is worth a lot now. 

Supply and demand. Huge number of MAGAs that need it.

[AUDub 11,158]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

Pretty common to think that if we are out of the way the Taliban can offer an opportunity in exchange for money and military assets. I have no idea about Neocon talking points....just know there's A LOT of useful mineral opportunities there including lithium which is worth a lot now. 

That depends. Region is so damned unstable  Sounds like they're going to have to deal with another civil war here soon given ISIS-K's behavior.

[AUDub 11,158]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

That depends. Region is so damned unstable  Sounds like they're going to have to deal with another civil war here soon given ISIS-K's behavior.

Also the Northern Alliance looks to be back up and whipping ass. 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

38 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Supply and demand. Huge number of MAGAs that need it.

Magas need lithium? You mean for electric cars? Not really, just oil, you know like we have in our country. 

[autigeremt 6,652]

51 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Supply and demand. Huge number of MAGAs that need it.

I think both wings need it myself

[Leftfield 2,617]

2 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

I think both wings need it myself

Oh, there are definitely some on the left that could use it. Overall, though, I think the drip should funnel a bit more to the right these days.

[autigeremt 6,652]

53 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Oh, there are definitely some on the left that could use it. Overall, though, I think the drip should funnel a bit more to the right these days.

These days were set up by past days. 

[AUGunsmith 666]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:18 AM, AU9377 said:

We had every right and I would argue a duty to go into Afghanistan and destroy terrorist training capabilities that aided in the 9/11 attack on this country.  We simply shouldn't have remained there for 20 years after that was done.  I don't know of anyone that actually believed it was a good idea to be there for at least 15 of those 20 years.  Of course, over the past several days, some of them have pretended to believe otherwise for the sake of purely political argument. 

When people are occupied, they usually resent the occupier to some degree, unless the occupier is paying for their loyalty.  This has been true going back to the Roman empire.  What amazes me the most are the Americans that have known this was coming, but are whining now about the time it is taking to get them out of the country.  They should have gotten themselves out of the country months ago.  All the same, we will get them out.  As for the Afghans, I have no problem with relocating those that worked closely with us on the ground.  However, that doesn't mean everyone that wants a new place to call home.  I find it hard to believe that the number is 20,000 or anything remotely close to that.  Done venting now.  LOL

Or maybe if we didn't meddle in the business of others there never would have even been a 9/11