Harsin goes on rant

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 hours ago, e808 said:

That part. People are buying the talk but the results on the field say otherwise. 

No, not that part. The other part. "To be determined."

[e808 3,028]

57 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

No, not that part. The other part. "To be determined."

I can be changed later but currently in it has been more talk than action. Slow start ASU. Poor play call at PSU and lackluster against Georgia. Add to that very undisciplined. Again it’s early but that doesn’t change what’s currently happening.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

I think the results we're seeing is not necessarily a result of CBH and his vision, but rather its an indictment and revelation of where the previous staff left things.  

Bird I know you know what you are talking about. But that game Saturday had very little to do with CGM.

Let's call a spade a spade. That was on Coach Harsin. Again, we went toe to toe with the # 6 team in the country in front of one of the most hostile environments we will see this season with those same revelations./players. Other than some questionable calls(why did we not continue to run down their throats, of course 4th down) we would have won that game in spite of not having a pass rush or defending the pass and our QB play. 

I think Harsin will be a good coach but deflecting this particular game to the previous regime doesn't add up.

Edited September 27, 2021 by tbone4jc

[e808 3,028]

7 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

Bird I know you know what you are talking about. But that game Saturday had very little to do with CGM. Let's call a spade a spade. That was on Coach Harsin. Again, we went toe to toe with the # 6 team in the country in front of one of the most hostile environments we will see this season with those same revelations./players. Other than some questionable calls(why did we not continue to run down their throats, of course 4th down) we would have won that game in spite of not having a pass rush or defending the pass and our QB play. 

I think Hatsin will be a good coach but deflecting this particular game to the previous regime doesn't add up.

That’s the stuff I am trying to say so basically every thing that goes wrong this season is the previous coach fault. U also have the guys still celebrating to only either  give up a big play the next play or two plays later. There are things that will take time and some things can be fixed right away. Some of the stuff that can be fixed immediately is still the same.

[McLoofus 35,182]

It's not an either/or thing.

Harsin is absolutely limited in what he can do by the locker room he inherited. 

He and his staff could and should have done better with that locker room in these last two games. 

Plenty of nuance to argue about but I'm surprised that it could be difficult to accept that all of the above can be true. Honestly, I find it pretty illogical to suggest otherwise. 

[e808 3,028]

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's not an either/or thing.

Harsin is absolutely limited in what he can do by the locker room he inherited. 

He and his staff could and should have done better with that locker room in these last two games. 

Plenty of nuance to argue about but I'm surprised that it could be difficult to accept that all of the above can be true. Honestly, I find it pretty illogical to suggest otherwise. 

No argument here

[shabby 1,958]

On 9/26/2021 at 10:15 AM, bigbird said:

I've said previously that he has a good mix of Saban and Dabo.

Well he almost had his La Monroe moment. Let's hope we see gradual improvement and long term success. I pray we aint Tennessee

[AU9377 4,977]

11 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's not an either/or thing.

Harsin is absolutely limited in what he can do by the locker room he inherited. 

He and his staff could and should have done better with that locker room in these last two games. 

Plenty of nuance to argue about but I'm surprised that it could be difficult to accept that all of the above can be true. Honestly, I find it pretty illogical to suggest otherwise. 

There are deficiencies, but the locker room he inherited has a lot of talent.  Nobody gets the Auburn job and then gets to blame lack of performance on the guy that came before them.  There are certainly not the limitations that were present when Chizik took over.  Tuberville didn't inherit near the talent. Malzahn inherited a team that didn't win an SEC game the year before.  None of them whined about it.  They all produced quickly.

[AU9377 4,977]

On 9/26/2021 at 10:15 AM, bigbird said:

I've said previously that he has a good mix of Saban and Dabo.

Personality wise that may be the case, but results wise we just don't know.  It is funny how things work out.  Dabo didn't have sustained success at Clemson until he hired, of all people, Chad Morris to run the offense.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

35 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

There are deficiencies, but the locker room he inherited has a lot of talent.  Nobody gets the Auburn job and then gets to blame lack of performance on the guy that came before them.  There are certainly not the limitations that were present when Chizik took over.  Tuberville didn't inherit near the talent. Malzahn inherited a team that didn't win an SEC game the year before.  None of them whined about it.  They all produced quickly.

If we're having a debate about talent level upon arrival. Chizik had maybe the easiest path. Chris Todd had a bum shoulder the year before, but he was already on the roster. He's a more productive QB than Nix has ever shown. Ben Tate was on that roster. Mario Fannin too. Eric Smith (talented headcase) too. Darvin Adams and Terrell Zachery were already there. Defensively, Josh Bynes, Daren Bates, Antonio Coleman, Walt McFadden, Neiko Thorpe, etc. That defense took a monster step back when Chizik arrived, but it had talent. He walked into the easiest transition.

Tuberville inherited a recruiting mess coming off a horrible year. Malzahn inherited a good base of talent at certain coming off the worst season in school history. He had to find a QB and did. I'd say Harsin's deal is somewhere between what Malzahn was handed and what Chizik was handed. Just with an SOB of a schedule, even by recent Auburn standards.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Harsin was handed a complete defense, minus some depth on DL. They should have performed better the last two weeks.

The offense he was handed is hot garbage, except at RB and TE. I mean just absolute trash. Maybe some of the younguns will turn into something but him having to depend on questionably talented freshmen is a huge part of the failures of the previous staff. 

Tuberville? He went 5-6 his first year and beat App State and Idaho by a score each.

Chizik inherited a far more foundationally strong program than Harsin did. FAR more. Malzahn didn't inherit the same foundation in terms of culture but he did inherit plenty of talent. And a lot of it was kids recruited for his own offense just two years prior.

Also, both Chizik and Malzahn made it to the BCSCG in large part due to- wait for it- deep, talented, experienced offensive lines recruited before they became head coach.

Whine about it? Who's whining about anything? Does anyone here honestly claim to know what kind of assessments those previous coaches offered privately when they took over?

Once again, people are just saying things so that the bar is lower for Malzahn than it is for Harsin or was going to be no matter who succeeded Malzahn. 

 

 

[homersapien 11,393]

10 hours ago, e808 said:

That part. People are buying the talk but the results on the field say otherwise. 

Well, we are 3-1 (with the loss being a competitive game against PSU).

The GSU "win" was atrocious, but Harsin is obviously not satisfied with merely winning or with our performance in that game.

Not sure how much more we should expect this year.

[AU9377 4,977]

35 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Harsin was handed a complete defense, minus some depth on DL. They should have performed better the last two weeks.

The offense he was handed is hot garbage, except at RB and TE. I mean just absolute trash. Maybe some of the younguns will turn into something but him having to depend on questionably talented freshmen is a huge part of the failures of the previous staff. 

Tuberville? He went 5-6 his first year and beat App State and Idaho by a score each.

Chizik inherited a far more foundationally strong program than Harsin did. FAR more. Malzahn didn't inherit the same foundation in terms of culture but he did inherit plenty of talent. And a lot of it was kids recruited for his own offense just two years prior.

Also, both Chizik and Malzahn made it to the BCSCG in large part due to- wait for it- deep, talented, experienced offensive lines recruited before they became head coach.

Whine about it? Who's whining about anything? Does anyone here honestly claim to know what kind of assessments those previous coaches offered privately when they took over?

Once again, people are just saying things so that the bar is lower for Malzahn than it is for Harsin or was going to be no matter who succeeded Malzahn. 

 

 

Oh good lord.... why must everything relate to this mythical group of people that love Gus?  How we looked on Saturday against Ga State had absolutely nothing to do with Gus Malzahn. It is one thing to look confused or to have issues with the game plan if the opponent is a top 5 ranked Clemson, but there isn't a player on Ga State's roster that could have gotten a scholarship at Auburn.    Auburn people have always had high expectations.  Bowden, Tubs, Chizik and Malzahn all knew that when they took the job, as did Harsin.  We will find out over the next month just how steep of a learning curve Auburn is for Harsin.  Everyone I know would love nothing more than to shock the world and win those games.  At the same time, if we win none of them, that is not going to be met with "awe shucks we will get them next time."  Like any other Auburn coach, Harsin will be told to make changes.  Like any other, he will make those changes.

 

https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh-big-ten-football-2020-total-team-talent-ranking-post-draft-deadline

[80Tiger 899]

6 hours ago, bigbird said:

I think the results we're seeing is not necessarily a result of CBH and his vision, but rather its an indictment and revelation of where the previous staff left things.  

I think you could give that pass for the PSU game, but last Saturday was lackluster in execution and what I believe was preparation. Very little of last week could be blamed on the previous staff. Last Saturday was an unmotivated, unprepared team. This past game performance lays at the feet of the current staff. Hope it was a one off.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

It's not an either/or thing.

Harsin is absolutely limited in what he can do by the locker room he inherited. 

He and his staff could and should have done better with that locker room in these last two games. 

Plenty of nuance to argue about but I'm surprised that it could be difficult to accept that all of the above can be true. Honestly, I find it pretty illogical to suggest otherwise. 

I get what you are saying. Some see a 6 while others see a 9  but neither are really wrong.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, 80Tiger said:

I think you could give that pass for the PSU game, but last Saturday was lackluster in execution and what I believe was preparation. Very little of last week could be blamed on the previous staff. Last Saturday was an unmotivated, unprepared team. This past game performance lays at the feet of the current staff. Hope it was a one off.

That was true at the beginning of the game, and then we say one side of the ball come out of the locker room and play completely differently. You didn't see that from the other side.

There are severe talent issues facing Harsin that he cannot just wish away. He's going to have to fix this through recruiting and that is going to take time. Does he have what it takes to do that? Seems that's very much still up in the air. 

[e808 3,028]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

Oh good lord.... why must everything relate to this mythical group of people that love Gus?  How we looked on Saturday against Ga State had absolutely nothing to do with Gus Malzahn. It is one thing to look confused or to have issues with the game plan if the opponent is a top 5 ranked Clemson, but there isn't a player on Ga State's roster that could have gotten a scholarship at Auburn.    Auburn people have always had high expectations.  Bowden, Tubs, Chizik and Malzahn all knew that when they took the job, as did Harsin.  We will find out over the next month just how steep of a learning curve Auburn is for Harsin.  Everyone I know would love nothing more than to shock the world and win those games.  At the same time, if we win none of them, that is not going to be met with "awe shucks we will get them next time."  Like any other Auburn coach, Harsin will be told to make changes.  Like any other, he will make those changes.

 

https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-football-jim-harbaugh-big-ten-football-2020-total-team-talent-ranking-post-draft-deadline

Wow Auburn is pretty high on the talent list. I know the talent wasn’t at bottom feeder level but that really interesting. 

[Hank2020 3,211]

3 hours ago, shabby said:

Well he almost had his La Monroe moment. Let's hope we see gradual improvement and long term success. I pray we aint Tennessee

But he didn’t!! He Made the right moves and they climbed their way out of the hole they dug. Everyone keeps talking about how most coaches would not of had enough courage to pull Nix, but not many giving him any credit for doing it.

[woodford 3,660]

“The storyline is ‘Get better…every single day moving forward.”

Love it. He has no time for dumb questions on top of rebuilding this dumpster fire of a program. 

[shabby 1,958]

2 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

But he didn’t!! He Made the right moves and they climbed their way out of the hole they dug. Everyone keeps talking about how most coaches would not of had enough courage to pull Nix, but not many giving him any credit

The quarterback play is just one of many issues. Saban was able to turn around that program because of Stellar recruiting right off the rip. I believe we are currently last in the SEC West in recruiting. With the level of play that we have seen so far is there any reason to think that improves

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, e808 said:

Wow Auburn is pretty high on the talent list. I know the talent wasn’t at bottom feeder level but that really interesting. 

If only there were any balance to all that talent. Also, we had a lot of talent processed out since that list was posted. 

Also, everyone needs to remember that this team wasn't even ranked to begin the season. Clearly not much was thought of our available talent outside of the fan base, either. 

[keesler 5,924]

8 minutes ago, shabby said:

The quarterback play is just one of many issues. Saban was able to turn around that program because of Stellar recruiting right off the rip. I believe we are currently last in the SEC West in recruiting. With the level of play that we have seen so far is there any reason to think that improves

I really need to check those recruiting numbers, I've seen this posted 2-3 times today.  When we are behind Arkansas/OleMiss/MSU in recruiting yikes. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,154]

All of our Top WR's graduated or left, We basically have the same O-line that has been deficient for last 2 years , we have 2 or 3 studs at RB and at best we have an adequate QB  (Bo) based on past performance. We do seem to have talent at TE but without better blocking and a QB to deliver while they have looked better the issue is not on the TE's. On D we couldn't hold the edge last year and we had no outside pass rusher and we lost some D-Line from last year. We did pick up some talent in the D-Line but the system they are running to often with 3 man d-line it is hard to say how much is talent. When top 3 LB's are healthy and playing we are top notch their backups at LB are solid as long as they have a leader out there with them.  DB's I think we have a world of talent but the system we are playing makes it hard to prove.

A good coach can hide some deficiencies but no coach can hide a weak O-Line, play calling can help them but if you miss blocks and don't move people no O runs well. I had to admit after Penn State game I felt a little better about O-Line but after this Ga. State game my opinion of the O-line went down hill a good bit. Bo played bad against Ga. State but it was really sad how many times he was in trouble on passing plays and even when Finley came in he was also under pressure way more than he should have been in against a team like Ga. State. As for Ga. State they played their hearts out and played some great ball but an awful lot of that was because of how bad Auburn's D played in 1st half and how bad the O-line played the whole game.

Bird is right that we didn't have as much talent as many thought but it is not all on the talent. I just flat don't like the D system we are playing it is the one area we can be a lot better than we have showed so far with a better defensive scheme. The O is going to sink or swim based on how the O-line performs the rest of the season. Assuming we switch QB's I like the ball Finley throws but he will need time which is questionable with this O-Line, I do think better play calling can help the O-line but if people miss assignments on O-Line or can't move their opponent the play calling can only help so much. LSU game may or may not show me much because I think LSU has its own issues. The only way LSU game shows me anything is if we are blown out, if we play close and win or lose it could be because both are mediocre and if we blow them out like last year it shows that LSU is bad. The game that will show me if we are able to take the talent they have and be competitive is the Ga. game.  If we can be competitive with Georgia I have hope for this team even if we don't have a great win/loss record this year because it will mean we are developing the talent we have. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by AuburnNTexas

[e808 3,028]

22 minutes ago, keesler said:

I really need to check those recruiting numbers, I've seen this posted 2-3 times today.  When we are behind Arkansas/OleMiss/MSU in recruiting yikes. 

It’s appears that the only team that’s behind  Auburn is Vandy according to Rivals

[AuburnNTexas 7,154]

Our biggest issue in recruiting at this time is numbers we only have 11 commitments. We are dead last in SEC in recruiting rankings just below Ole Miss which has 13 players committed after that every other team in SEC has 14 or more players committed.  Our per player ranking of 88.33 puts us in middle of the pack.

 Team  Ranking   #Commits   Player Ranking

Auburn   40                11                   88.33

Ole Miss 39                13                  88.03

Vandy     35                19                  85.78

Tenn       30                 14                 88.01

MS State 27                18                 86.80

UK           24                 14                88.20

SC           22                 17                87.74

Ark          21                  18               87.16

Mizzou    17                  14               89.61 

Fla           16                  14               89.4

TAM          9                  14               92.43

LSU           8                  15               91.59

bama         6                  14               93.72

Ga              4                  17               91.55                     

Because of our low numbers we can move up a good but as season goes on more and more of the top players will have committed and we might have to settle for lesser ranked players. I also think some of our current committed players will get a ranking boost. I am mildly worried by our current number of commits by middle to end of October if we have not seen a lot of movement I will be real worried especially in areas of need like O-Line, D-Line and LB.