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I_M4_AU

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30 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The only time I hear anything with regard to any of this is when some of you watch right wing culture war generals and get all worked up. 

They’re sneaky like that.  Do you have kids?

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20 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The only time I hear anything with regard to any of this is when some of you watch right wing culture war generals and get all worked up. 

No, no, it's a HUUUGE problem.  It's just that the left wing mass media are ignoring it. 😉

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https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2150346

Studies that formed the basis for youth medical gender transition apparently had some major flaws in methodology...

Three methodological biases undermine the research: (1) subject selection assured that only the most successful cases were included in the results; (2) the finding that “resolution of gender dysphoria” was due to the reversal of the questionnaire employed; (3) concomitant psychotherapy made it impossible to separate the effects of this intervention from those of hormones and surgery.

The psychotherapy mentioned in point 3 is the confounding variable in action. 

#1 is flat-out cherry picking...not sure there's a valid statistical/experimental design term for that.

Edited by SLAG-91
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22 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I was taught it was called "cheating". ;D 

That would certainly be both precise and accurate. 👍

I guess "fudging" would have been more diplomatic, but that softer touch would be entirely undeserved considering the subject matter of the study.

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On 2/4/2023 at 5:18 PM, AU9377 said:

The only time I hear anything with regard to any of this is when some of you watch right wing culture war generals and get all worked up. 

This clip is from the Grammies, which is a pop art broadcast, that is widely used to promote their ideals and *culture*.  If you think this is a presented by a right wing culture war general, you’re wrong.  This is promotion of their culture, now the reaction to this is wide, but if you haven’t been paying attention I would think this is a surprise as to what is presented to our youth that are into pop art and culture.  Is this something you believe is OK because it is the way of the future or was this just a one off by performers that are non binary and a trans woman?  And does that make a difference:

 

Once again, do you have children?

Edited by I_M4_AU
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2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

This clip is from the Grammies, which is a pop art broadcast, that is widely used to promote their ideals and *culture*.  If you thing this is a presented by a right wing culture war general, you’re wrong.  This is promotion of their culture, now the reaction to this is wide, but if you haven’t been paying attention I would think this is a surprise as to what is presented to our youth that are into pop art and culture.  Is this something you believe is OK because it is the way of the future or was this just a one off by performers that are non binary and a trans woman?  And does that make a difference:

 

Once again, do you have children?

You really believe that is teaching kids to worship the devil?  My high school mascot was a devil.  That didn't teach me to worship the devil either.  How is this any different from things we saw in decades past?  Heck, I went to a concert when I was in high school where a big blow up penis came from the crowd and the performer was arrested because of the language he was using.  As a 16 year old, I thought it was hilarious and even funnier was the reaction of the 2 parents that were chaperoning us and quickly told us to head to the car.  The clip isn't the most appropriate thing for kids to be watching, but it isn't an example of some agenda.

As to your question... I have no biological children, but I do have children.  I certainly understand the need to protect them while also preparing them for the world.  For example, I am a proponent of public education.  However, I also support a parent's right to send their child to the school they believe provides the best environment for their child to grow and develop in a positive way.  That isn't always the public school system.  Kids are like sponges and a sponge soaks up everything around it.

 

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3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The left:

 

 

Really?  Who is more Christ like? Is it the the woman running the homeless shelter or the man telling immigrants to turn around or they will be shot?  The answer is an inconvenient truth, but a truth nonetheless.

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20 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

That would certainly be both precise and accurate. 👍

I guess "fudging" would have been more diplomatic, but that softer touch would be entirely undeserved considering the subject matter of the study.

Nah, subject doesn't matter.  If you purposely fail to randomize a study appropriately it's cheating.  "Fudging" is cheating if you are supposed to be presenting a statistical analysis of a study.

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4 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You really believe that is teaching kids to worship the devil?

No I don’t.  The Grammies and that industry are sending a message of self importance.  And young people listen.  In *Paradise Lost* Melvin famously wrote; 

The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a heav’n of hell, a hell of heav’n. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater? Here at least We shall be free: th’Almighty hath not built Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: Here we may reign secure, and in my choice To reign is worth ambition, though in hell; Better to reign in hell than serve in heav’n.

The Devil was to be pitied to think his mind could make hell into heaven.  Today’s world is more of the thinking that the devil had it right in that the mind is its own place far from the realities of life.  Therefore, what ever you think is what is true and will make you happy.

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

As a 16 year old, I thought it was hilarious and even funnier was the reaction of the 2 parents that were chaperoning us and quickly told us to head to the car.

We are well beyond simple morality questions and parents rushing you off to the car.  Today kids can look at this type of display on the internet without any parental guidance and direction.  Can you imagine a teen allowed to look at this without any context from someone that cares for them, like a parent?

 

5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I certainly understand the need to protect them while also preparing them for the world.

This is a balancing act in today’s world.  A parent will have to stay in communication with their child and hope they are will talk to them in an honest way.

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5 hours ago, AU9377 said:

Really?  Who is more Christ like? Is it the the woman running the homeless shelter or the man telling immigrants to turn around or they will be shot?  The answer is an inconvenient truth, but a truth nonetheless.

When was the last time someone was turned away at the border?  Some have been turned away because they were on the Terror Watch List, but I consider that a good thing.  The US is a sovereign nation that has separation of church and state, you know give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and, therefore, has rules to protect that sovereign nation.  Kind of a bad comparison.  Religious groups and others running a homeless shelter are admirable, no doubt, but so is defending the rule of law.  Defending the border is necessary for the US to be a sovereign nation.

 

 

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5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

When was the last time someone was turned away at the border?  Some have been turned away because they were on the Terror Watch List, but I consider that a good thing.  The US is a sovereign nation that has separation of church and state, you know give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and, therefore, has rules to protect that sovereign nation.  Kind of a bad comparison.  Religious groups and others running a homeless shelter are admirable, no doubt, but so is defending the rule of law.  Defending the border is necessary for the US to be a sovereign nation.

 

 

I agree that our immigration system is broken.  In order to fix that system, we need comprehensive immigration reform.  You make it sound as though people can just walk thru at will.  There are some that can, but they are primarily the thousands of Mexican citizens that work on the U.S. side of the border and return home every day.

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5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

No I don’t.  The Grammies and that industry are sending a message of self importance.  And young people listen.  In *Paradise Lost* Melvin famously wrote; 

The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a heav’n of hell, a hell of heav’n. What matter where, if I be still the same, And what I should be, all but less than he Whom thunder hath made greater? Here at least We shall be free: th’Almighty hath not built Here for his envy, will not drive us hence: Here we may reign secure, and in my choice To reign is worth ambition, though in hell; Better to reign in hell than serve in heav’n.

The Devil was to be pitied to think his mind could make hell into heaven.  Today’s world is more of the thinking that the devil had it right in that the mind is its own place far from the realities of life.  Therefore, what ever you think is what is true and will make you happy.

We are well beyond simple morality questions and parents rushing you off to the car.  Today kids can look at this type of display on the internet without any parental guidance and direction.  Can you imagine a teen allowed to look at this without any context from someone that cares for them, like a parent?

 

This is a balancing act in today’s world.  A parent will have to stay in communication with their child and hope they are will talk to them in an honest way.

I was finding porn any place I could find it when I was 13 or 14.  I can only imagine how much time I would have spent on the computer had there been internet porn when I was 15 years old.  At the same time, I was a good kid.  I got good grades, had good friends and never got into any serious trouble.  I was involved in everything I could be because that got me out of the house and in large respect away from the watchful eye of my parents.  My parents weren't extremely strict, but I had earned that by not giving them any reason to be.  We went to church 3 times a week, and more if some kind of youth activities were taking place.

None of that prevented the group of kids I was around from doing all kinds of exploring and experimenting.  We just made damn sure that as little of that got back to our parents as possible.  I remember being 17 the summer before my senior year of high school/  I was working in the afternoons and on Saturdays at a grocery store, cutting meat in the meat department.  I had taken case of beer and placed it in the back of my SUV.  I forgot it was there and early the next morning my mom popped her head in my room and told me that she was taking my SUV for a few minutes because she had some drapes that she wanted to take to the cleaners.  As she was driving down the driveway, I sat up in my bed and remembered that was in the back floor.  I waited for the grilling when she got home.  She never said a word.  Years later I asked her why and she said that it was part of growing up and she thought I was responsible enough not to do something stupid.  I cannot say that I would have been that reserved today if I found the same.

My point in saying all that is simply that kids exploring the world and all they can get into has been the constant generation after generation.  If anything, we have more ability to track their whereabouts today than ever before.  What kids need are adults leading by example more than words.  I have seen so many kids over the past 15 years, give or take, that are more mature than their parents.  They are often that way because they have basically raised themselves.

Do you think that grammy performance was more sinister than a KISS performance in 1987?  Neither will scar them. They aren't that delicate.

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On 2/8/2023 at 12:18 AM, AU9377 said:

My point in saying all that is simply that kids exploring the world and all they can get into has been the constant generation after generation.  If anything, we have more ability to track their whereabouts today than ever before.  What kids need are adults leading by example more than words.  I have seen so many kids over the past 15 years, give or take, that are more mature than their parents.  They are often that way because they have basically raised themselves.

Your last statement does not go along with what you previously wrote.  I commend your parents for your upbringing as you take more credit for how you turned out than giving it to who it belongs; your parents.  This is a typical reaction until you start to realize how difficult it is to raise children.  It is similar to teaching a kid how to drive.  They have been sitting in the car for 15+ years watching an expert drive and have developed a since that this can’t be too hard, until they try it and the thought processes that needs to happen to be successful.  Hopefully that is their view.

A child should never *basically raise themselves* although it may seem that way, parental influence is ever present.  It can be good or bad, but it is always there.  Children need guidance and parents shouldn’t pass that responsibility to others, such as schools.  Unfortunately, that is what is happening.

Here is a quote from a 42 yo self described Queer woman that has worked in a Transgender Clinic in Washington State:

I am a 42-year-old St. Louis native, a queer woman, and politically to the left of Bernie Sanders. My worldview has deeply shaped my career. I have spent my professional life providing counseling to vulnerable populations: children in foster care, sexual minorities, the poor. 

For almost four years, I worked at The Washington University School of Medicine Division of Infectious Diseases with teens and young adults who were HIV positive. Many of them were trans or otherwise gender nonconforming, and I could relate: Through childhood and adolescence, I did a lot of gender questioning myself. I’m now married to a transman, and together we are raising my two biological children from a previous marriage and three foster children we hope to adopt. 

All that led me to a job in 2018 as a case manager at The Washington University Transgender Center at St. Louis Children's Hospital, which had been established a year earlier. 

The center’s working assumption was that the earlier you treat kids with gender dysphoria, the more anguish you can prevent later on. This premise was shared by the center’s doctors and therapists. Given their expertise, I assumed that abundant evidence backed this consensus. 

During the four years I worked at the clinic as a case manager—I was responsible for patient intake and oversight—around a thousand distressed young people came through our doors. The majority of them received hormone prescriptions that can have life-altering consequences—including sterility. 

I left the clinic in November of last year because I could no longer participate in what was happening there. By the time I departed, I was certain that the way the American medical system is treating these patients is the opposite of the promise we make to “do no harm.” Instead, we are permanently harming the vulnerable patients in our care.

Today I am speaking out. I am doing so knowing how toxic the public conversation is around this highly contentious issue—and the ways that my testimony might be misused. I am doing so knowing that I am putting myself at serious personal and professional risk.

Almost everyone in my life advised me to keep my head down. But I cannot in good conscience do so. Because what is happening to scores of children is far more important than my comfort. And what is happening to them is morally and medically appalling.

https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

The article continues:

The Floodgates Open

Soon after my arrival at the Transgender Center, I was struck by the lack of formal protocols for treatment. The center’s physician co-directors were essentially the sole authority.

At first, the patient population was tipped toward what used to be the “traditional” instance of a child with gender dysphoria: a boy, often quite young, who wanted to present as—who wanted to be—a girl. 

Until 2015 or so, a very small number of these boys comprised the population of pediatric gender dysphoria cases. Then, across the Western world, there began to be a dramatic increase in a new population: Teenage girls, many with no previous history of gender distress, suddenly declared they were transgender and demanded immediate treatment with testosterone. 

I certainly saw this at the center. One of my jobs was to do intake for new patients and their families. When I started there were probably 10 such calls a month. When I left there were 50, and about 70 percent of the new patients were girls. Sometimes clusters of girls arrived from the same high school. 

This concerned me, but didn’t feel I was in the position to sound some kind of alarm back then. There was a team of about eight of us, and only one other person brought up the kinds of questions I had. Anyone who raised doubts ran the risk of being called a transphobe. 

The girls who came to us had many comorbidities: depression, anxiety, ADHD, eating disorders, obesity. Many were diagnosed with autism, or had autism-like symptoms. A report last year on a British pediatric transgender center found that about one-third of the patients referred there were on the autism spectrum.

Frequently, our patients declared they had disorders that no one believed they had. We had patients who said they had Tourette syndrome (but they didn’t); that they had tic disorders (but they didn’t); that they had multiple personalities (but they didn’t). 

The doctors privately recognized these false self-diagnoses as a manifestation of social contagion. They even acknowledged that suicide has an element of social contagion. But when I said the clusters of girls streaming into our service looked as if their gender issues might be a manifestation of social contagion, the doctors said gender identity reflected something innate.

To begin transitioning, the girls needed a letter of support from a therapist—usually one we recommended—who they had to see only once or twice for the green light. To make it more efficient for the therapists, we offered them a template for how to write a letter in support of transition. The next stop was a single visit to the endocrinologist for a testosterone prescription. 

The interesting part of her comments is the reference to *social contagion*.  This is why the Grammy presentation is more of an influence to our young people in today’s world than the KISS performance in 1987.  Your kids may not be that delicate, but you don’t know that.  Following how your parents raised you, allowing you to believe you were in control, is the perfect way to parent.  I’m sure if you thought you strayed from the norm, they might have intervened.  You could ask them to confirm.

You will never see an article like this in The NYTIMES or WaPo even thought it is heart felt and factual.  I wonder why?

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13 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your last statement does not go along with what you previously wrote.  I commend your parents for your upbringing as you take more credit for how you turned out than giving it to who it belongs; your parents.  This is a typical reaction until you start to realize how difficult it is to raise children.  It is similar to teaching a kid how to drive.  They have been sitting in the car for 15+ years watching an expert drive and have developed a since that this can’t be too hard, until they try it and the thought processes that needs to happen to be successful.  Hopefully that is their view.

A child should never *basically raise themselves* although it may seem that way, parental influence is ever present.  It can be good or bad, but it is always there.  Children need guidance and parents shouldn’t pass that responsibility to others, such as schools.  Unfortunately, that is what is happening.

Here is a quote from a 42 yo self described Queer woman that has worked in a Transgender Clinic in Washington State:

I am a 42-year-old St. Louis native, a queer woman, and politically to the left of Bernie Sanders. My worldview has deeply shaped my career. I have spent my professional life providing counseling to vulnerable populations: children in foster care, sexual minorities, the poor. 

For almost four years, I worked at The Washington University School of Medicine Division of Infectious Diseases with teens and young adults who were HIV positive. Many of them were trans or otherwise gender nonconforming, and I could relate: Through childhood and adolescence, I did a lot of gender questioning myself. I’m now married to a transman, and together we are raising my two biological children from a previous marriage and three foster children we hope to adopt. 

All that led me to a job in 2018 as a case manager at The Washington University Transgender Center at St. Louis Children's Hospital, which had been established a year earlier. 

The center’s working assumption was that the earlier you treat kids with gender dysphoria, the more anguish you can prevent later on. This premise was shared by the center’s doctors and therapists. Given their expertise, I assumed that abundant evidence backed this consensus. 

During the four years I worked at the clinic as a case manager—I was responsible for patient intake and oversight—around a thousand distressed young people came through our doors. The majority of them received hormone prescriptions that can have life-altering consequences—including sterility. 

I left the clinic in November of last year because I could no longer participate in what was happening there. By the time I departed, I was certain that the way the American medical system is treating these patients is the opposite of the promise we make to “do no harm.” Instead, we are permanently harming the vulnerable patients in our care.

Today I am speaking out. I am doing so knowing how toxic the public conversation is around this highly contentious issue—and the ways that my testimony might be misused. I am doing so knowing that I am putting myself at serious personal and professional risk.

Almost everyone in my life advised me to keep my head down. But I cannot in good conscience do so. Because what is happening to scores of children is far more important than my comfort. And what is happening to them is morally and medically appalling.

https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

The article continues:

The Floodgates Open

Soon after my arrival at the Transgender Center, I was struck by the lack of formal protocols for treatment. The center’s physician co-directors were essentially the sole authority.

At first, the patient population was tipped toward what used to be the “traditional” instance of a child with gender dysphoria: a boy, often quite young, who wanted to present as—who wanted to be—a girl. 

Until 2015 or so, a very small number of these boys comprised the population of pediatric gender dysphoria cases. Then, across the Western world, there began to be a dramatic increase in a new population: Teenage girls, many with no previous history of gender distress, suddenly declared they were transgender and demanded immediate treatment with testosterone. 

I certainly saw this at the center. One of my jobs was to do intake for new patients and their families. When I started there were probably 10 such calls a month. When I left there were 50, and about 70 percent of the new patients were girls. Sometimes clusters of girls arrived from the same high school. 

This concerned me, but didn’t feel I was in the position to sound some kind of alarm back then. There was a team of about eight of us, and only one other person brought up the kinds of questions I had. Anyone who raised doubts ran the risk of being called a transphobe. 

The girls who came to us had many comorbidities: depression, anxiety, ADHD, eating disorders, obesity. Many were diagnosed with autism, or had autism-like symptoms. A report last year on a British pediatric transgender center found that about one-third of the patients referred there were on the autism spectrum.

Frequently, our patients declared they had disorders that no one believed they had. We had patients who said they had Tourette syndrome (but they didn’t); that they had tic disorders (but they didn’t); that they had multiple personalities (but they didn’t). 

The doctors privately recognized these false self-diagnoses as a manifestation of social contagion. They even acknowledged that suicide has an element of social contagion. But when I said the clusters of girls streaming into our service looked as if their gender issues might be a manifestation of social contagion, the doctors said gender identity reflected something innate.

To begin transitioning, the girls needed a letter of support from a therapist—usually one we recommended—who they had to see only once or twice for the green light. To make it more efficient for the therapists, we offered them a template for how to write a letter in support of transition. The next stop was a single visit to the endocrinologist for a testosterone prescription. 

The interesting part of her comments is the reference to *social contagion*.  This is why the Grammy presentation is more of an influence to our young people in today’s world than the KISS performance in 1987.  Your kids may not be that delicate, but you don’t know that.  Following how your parents raised you, allowing you to believe you were in control, is the perfect way to parent.  I’m sure if you thought you strayed from the norm, they might have intervened.  You could ask them to confirm.

You will never see an article like this in The NYTIMES or WaPo even thought it is heart felt and factual.  I wonder why?

Do you think kids are all lining up to transition?  My God, what is all the angst about?  I'm not suggesting that any child should be given medications or allowed to make choices that will impact their life in a permanent way.  I don't even think kids should get tatts, for crying out loud.

I agree that no child should raise him or herself.  That is part of the problem in our society and that problem is the result of generations of parents that are more concerned with themselves than their children.

There is an obsession right now with the trans issue by the far right.  There is no other way to describe it.  Why?  Because it provides the far right with a group of people to point to and scream EVIL.  It also provides an acceptable way for many to imply that all gay men and women are also unacceptable.  Simple minded people that no longer feel that it is socially acceptable to label a gay man as a defect or mentally ill can yell and scream that this is what will come from their acceptance.  Nothing could be more untrue, but truth has nothing to do with culture war politics and the talking heads on the far right.

I know the difficulties of raising children.  I said I had no biological children. I did not say that I did not parent a child.

Edited by AU9377
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21 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Do you think kids are all lining up to transition?

Yes, did you read the article?

21 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

My God, what is all the angst about?  I'm not suggesting that any child should be given medications or allowed to make choices that will impact their life in a permanent way.  I don't even think kids should get tatts, for crying out loud.

If you feel this way; why are you arguing?

 

22 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I agree that no child should raise him or herself.  That is part of the problem in our society and that problem is the result of generations of parents that are more concerned with themselves than their children.

Agreed.

24 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

There is an obsession right now with the trans issue by the far right.  There is no other way to describe it.  Why?  Because it provides the far right with a group of people to point to and scream EVIL.  It also provides an acceptable way for many to imply that all gay men and women are also unacceptable.  Simple minded people that no longer feel that it is socially acceptable to label a gay man as a defect or mentally ill can yell and scream that this is what will come from their acceptance.  Nothing could be more untrue, but truth has nothing to do with culture war politics and the talking heads on the far right.

You can not be more wrong about these statements.  It is not about the trans issue, if you are of legal age you can do what you want.  The EVIL part is convincing children that even though today they think they are of the opposite sex, that they should be put in a protocol to transition to that sex.  Once you in the protocol, it’s difficult to get out.

Transitioning kids to the opposite sex has nothing to do with gays.  There are organizations of Gays that are against grooming of our children.

https://www.gaysagainstgroomers.com

It would be much better if society would let kids grow up and realize for themselves if they are heterosexual or homosexual as they grow.  You seem to have bought into the LGBTQojmomre Coalition narrative; if you against one, you’re against all*.

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3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, did you read the article?

If you feel this way; why are you arguing?

 

Agreed.

You can not be more wrong about these statements.  It is not about the trans issue, if you are of legal age you can do what you want.  The EVIL part is convincing children that even though today they think they are of the opposite sex, that they should be put in a protocol to transition to that sex.  Once you in the protocol, it’s difficult to get out.

Transitioning kids to the opposite sex has nothing to do with gays.  There are organizations of Gays that are against grooming of our children.

https://www.gaysagainstgroomers.com

It would be much better if society would let kids grow up and realize for themselves if they are heterosexual or homosexual as they grow.  You seem to have bought into the LGBTQojmomre Coalition narrative; if you against one, you’re against all*.

This should not be a national political issue.  The only reason it is being used as such is due to culture war politics.  Believe me, I am not bought into a narrative.  I recognize that some are and that is the goal of many politicians attempting to do all they can to push everyone to that narrative.  I wish people were smarter, but I have lived long enough to know that most aren't and half of those that are are to lazy to make the effort to think for themselves.

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1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

This should not be a national political issue.  The only reason it is being used as such is due to culture war politics

It shouldn’t be, you’re correct, but the only reason it is is because Biden’s EOs he signed into law teaching gender ideology.  

There should be no resistance to any law that prevents life altering surgeries to minors with or without parental approval.

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  • 1 month later...

It seems as though the trans movement has been emboldened since the Nashville school shooting.  It has been helped by the Biden Administration in no small way.  4 days after the shooting Biden declares a *International Transgender Day of Visibility* essentially replacing the *Day of Transgender Vengeance* scheduled to be on April 1st.

Then the Press Secretary puts out this statement:

 

which included stating Trans kids will fight back.  A totally innocent statement except could be a *dog whistle* to many in the trans community.

Since the shooting the shift of the narrative to the trans community is the victim here is evident.

Yes, this is in Canada, but is not confined to that liberal country:

 

In San Francisco last night Riley Gaines was accosted by a trans woman during a speech she was trying to give at SFState College.

 

They (the activists) demanded money to let Riley leave unharmed.  

 

Where’s the DOJ investigating these extreme domestic terrorists?  Seem much more of a threat than parents at a school board meeting. .

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Oh, additionally a copy cat:

A trans-identified male who goes by Lilly, though his given name is William Whitworth, was arrested and charged after a police investigation in Colorado Springs revealed that the 19-year-old was responsible for "threats involving schools in Colorado Springs Academy District 20."

https://thepostmillennial.com/trans-male-arrested-for-planning-colorado-school-shooting-had-manifesto?utm_campaign=64483

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