America doesn’t need more God. It needs more atheists.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

15 hours ago, Aufan59 said:

The point about god being evil is not a religious one.  It is about the belief of an all powerful god.

 

I definitely like and agree with the peaceful teachings of Jesus, but the whole god thing completely subverts the message.

I understand but,,, you are conflating god with,,, man's idea of god/religions' idea of god.

Surely you can see that most "christians" do not accept Jesus on Jesus' terms.  They prefer their god to be more of a vengful, war king.

You are blaming God for a fault of man.

[SaltyTiger 7,870]

17 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I understand but,,, you are conflating god with,,, man's idea of god/religions' idea of god.

Surely you can see that most "christians" do not accept Jesus on Jesus' terms.  They prefer their god to be more of a vengful, war king.

You are blaming God for a fault of man.

And there you go judging what “most Christians” do and prefer. I can only suppose to elevate ICHY. You have no clue about others feelings and circumstances.

59 is blaming God for all of man’s faults. He is also blaming God for sickness and allowing natural disasters. He believes God is evil.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

And there you go judging what “most Christians” do and prefer. I can only suppose to elevate ICHY. You have no clue about others feelings and circumstances.

59 is blaming God for all of man’s faults. He is also blaming God for sickness and allowing natural disasters. He believes God is evil.

It is unfortunate that,,, you either cannot understand or, you simply aren't trying to understand.

[SaltyTiger 7,870]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:57 AM, icanthearyou said:

It is unfortunate that,,, you either cannot understand or, you simply aren't trying to understand.

I understand you. Took uncountable facepalms to get there.

[Aufan59 81]

On 11/5/2023 at 2:28 PM, icanthearyou said:

You are blaming God for a fault of man.

Yes, because god created man and knew exactly how they would behave.

 

Does god not get credit for his creation?  Or only the good parts?

[jj3jordan 2,061]

14 hours ago, Aufan59 said:

Yes, because god created man and knew exactly how they would behave.

 

Does god not get credit for his creation?  Or only the good parts?

God created ONLY good parts. Lucifer chose to rebel and reject God. Lucifer was cast out of Heaven to the earth. Lucifer introduced evil to the earth and humans who have free will chose to believe Lucifer that if they ate of the tree of life they would be equal to God.  Lucifer never admitted to Adam and Eve that this rebellion against God is what got him tossed. Adam and Eve victimized by the lies of Lucifer.  Thus sin entered the world. Humans can always choose God. Even you, as hardened as your heart is against God, can still choose God thru Jesus. It is not too late.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

15 hours ago, Aufan59 said:

Yes, because god created man and knew exactly how they would behave.

 

Does god not get credit for his creation?  Or only the good parts?

God gave humanity a chance.  Some can see the character of God.  Some cannot/will not.

For those who see the character of God,,, I would think they appreciate the opportunity.

Still, I can understand your,,, "I want my money back" attitude.  I simply disagree in the context of Jesus.  In the context of "christianity", I could not agree more.  But, God and religion are vastly different concepts.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

23 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

I understand you. Took uncountable facepalms to get there.

It is not my fault.  You have to blame the creator of the facepalm.

[CoffeeTiger 5,185]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

God created ONLY good parts. Lucifer chose to rebel and reject God. Lucifer was cast out of Heaven to the earth. Lucifer introduced evil to the earth and humans who have free will chose to believe Lucifer that if they ate of the tree of life they would be equal to God.  Lucifer never admitted to Adam and Eve that this rebellion against God is what got him tossed. Adam and Eve victimized by the lies of Lucifer.  Thus sin entered the world. Humans can always choose God. Even you, as hardened as your heart is against God, can still choose God thru Jesus. It is not too late.

 

So why didn't God destroy lucifer instead of allowing him to not only thrive outside of Heaven, but to so fully corrupt Gods creation?

In the Bible God regularly and swiftly killed and punished people who angered him or denied his will....why did he not do the same to Satan? 

 

[Leftfield 2,676]

30 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

....why did he not do the same to Satan? 

Saving it for the sequel.

*ducks to avoid lightning*

[jj3jordan 2,061]

46 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

So why didn't God destroy lucifer instead of allowing him to not only thrive outside of Heaven, but to so fully corrupt Gods creation?

In the Bible God regularly and swiftly killed and punished people who angered him or denied his will....why did he not do the same to Satan? 

 

Why don’t you ask Him? I don’t know and would not pretend to know God’s mind. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

14 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Why don’t you ask Him? I don’t know and would not pretend to know God’s mind. 

So you do not know God?

Interesting statement. 

[auburnatl1 5,102]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

It is not my fault.  You have to blame the creator of the facepalm.

Perfectly encapsulates the free will/59 v Salty debate. Is ichy responsible for his facepalms or is God because he allowed humans to the ability to create them - and therefore giving ichy the unfair choice/temptation to use them.

Edited November 7, 2023 by auburnatl1

[auburnatl1 5,102]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

So why didn't God destroy lucifer instead of allowing him to not only thrive outside of Heaven, but to so fully corrupt Gods creation?

In the Bible God regularly and swiftly killed and punished people who angered him or denied his will....why did he not do the same to Satan? 

 

Genesis deals with this with the concept of original sin and this life instead becoming a test for achieving heaven. However, there is a long debated issue here - why did God allow for Satan (a fallen archangel) into Eden (which at the time was perfect) to begin with?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

59 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Perfectly encapsulates the free will/59 v Salty debate. Is ichy responsible for his facepalms or is God because he allowed humans to the ability to create them - and therefore giving ichy the unfair choice/temptation to use them.

I still contend that Salty is to blame.  He earned them.  He deserves them.

They were righteous facepalms,,, everyone.

[jj3jordan 2,061]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

So you do not know God?

Interesting statement. 

Not what I said. Try to pay attention. I would call you a liar since you clearly are. But everybody here already knows that. Accusing God of being evil is just not sane. So is denying the righteousness of His Book. Jesus loves all of us and desires for us to repent, confess, dedicate, and live for Him. That means changing sinful behavior. The ugly truth most people don't want to face. All those sinners Jesus forgave in His ministry changed their lives for Him. Jesus does not give a pass to unrepentant sinners who say Jesus loves everybody.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

18 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Not what I said. Try to pay attention. I would call you a liar since you clearly are. But everybody here already knows that. Accusing God of being evil is just not sane. So is denying the righteousness of His Book. Jesus loves all of us and desires for us to repent, confess, dedicate, and live for Him. That means changing sinful behavior. The ugly truth most people don't want to face. All those sinners Jesus forgave in His ministry changed their lives for Him. Jesus does not give a pass to unrepentant sinners who say Jesus loves everybody.

 

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Why don’t you ask Him? I don’t know and would not pretend to know God’s mind. 

You contradict yourself.

Perhaps what you know is religion?  Perhaps knowing Jesus is actually the goal?

[Aufan59 81]

8 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

God created ONLY good parts. Lucifer chose to rebel and reject God. Lucifer was cast out of Heaven to the earth. Lucifer introduced evil to the earth and humans who have free will chose to believe Lucifer that if they ate of the tree of life they would be equal to God.  Lucifer never admitted to Adam and Eve that this rebellion against God is what got him tossed. Adam and Eve victimized by the lies of Lucifer.  Thus sin entered the world. Humans can always choose God. Even you, as hardened as your heart is against God, can still choose God thru Jesus. It is not too late.

So my argument doesn’t apply to you. You do not believe god is the all powerful creator of everything.  Just created some stuff.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Aufan59

[jj3jordan 2,061]

1 hour ago, Aufan59 said:

So my argument doesn’t apply to you. You do not believe god is the all powerful creator of everything.  Just created some stuff.

 

You could not be more wrong. Whatever.

[jj3jordan 2,061]

5 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

 

You contradict yourself.

Perhaps what you know is religion?  Perhaps knowing Jesus is actually the goal?

My position is crystal clear. There is no contradiction.

[SaltyTiger 7,870]

11 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

So why didn't God destroy lucifer instead of allowing him to not only thrive outside of Heaven, but to so fully corrupt Gods creation?

In the Bible God regularly and swiftly killed and punished people who angered him or denied his will....why did he not do the same to Satan? 

 

As to God destroying Satan initially. Some things we can’t answer and it is foolish to try. As Christians we understand that God gave us the means to overcome evil. We do believe per prophets that God does neutralize evil when his works are complete.

God did clean the slate and make the covenant with his “chosen people”. “kill and punishment” by God can always be tied directly to the covenant. 
 

 

[SaltyTiger 7,870]

9 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

I still contend that Salty is to blame.  He earned them.  He deserves them.

They were righteous facepalms,,, everyone.

Earned some I can agree.

After tapping the bell and reading “ ICHY reacted to a post in…..” have learned to just move on.

[homersapien 11,461]

On 11/7/2023 at 9:52 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

 

So why didn't God destroy lucifer instead of allowing him to not only thrive outside of Heaven, but to so fully corrupt Gods creation?

In the Bible God regularly and swiftly killed and punished people who angered him or denied his will....why did he not do the same to Satan? 

 

When you enter the realm of religion, you have to check logic and cognitive reasoning at the door.

Thus, the Marvel Comics "super-villain" scenario suddenly becomes the "truth".

Edited November 8, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,870]

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

When you enter the realm of religion, you have to check logic and cognitive reasoning at the door.

Thus, the Marvel Comics "super-villain" scenario suddenly becomes the "truth".

Really don’t know what you are saying. Sounds like you are bored old man trying to impress ICHY and Coffee.  
 

Know you do not deny God so you need to understand that Satan exist.

[ScotsAU 1,343]

Can’t remember if I already replied to this. But 17 pages of comments is too much to read. America doesn’t need more god or more atheists. It needs more open mindedness. I know plenty of conservatives that think atheists are all awful people. But I also know plenty of atheists who claim to be open minded that say how bad all of the Christian’s are. To which I have to remind them… hello. I’m a Christian and I have more progressive views than you’re pigeonholing me into having. 
Just because you don’t believe in God doesn’t make you inherently a bad person. But organized religion is also not the ultimate evil. Atheists still have morals just like most religious groups do, Christian’s included. They are just guided more generally by society rather than directly from religious text. As for religious folks, not every Christian thinks LGBTQ folks are evil, abortion is a sin that condemns you to hell, etc. In fact data suggests that the percentage of Christian’s that think that way is actually starting to shrink. There were already a decent number of progressive Christian’s in the country and around the world. But, youngish progressives that left the church 10-15 years ago as teens and young adults are beginning to come back, and are bringing more inclusive, loving views of Christianity with them. In addition, many of them are bringing their children as well. 
 

In short, atheists don’t stereotype Christian’s. Christians don’t stereotype atheists. Everyone needs to ditch this “I have to be right” mentality and needs to start actually hearing out the people they disagree with. You want America to heal. That’s what needs to be done. Enough with the conspiracy theories and stereotyping the other side. Check your biases. Find others that have done the same, and listen to each other.

 

Fun little side fact, my faith has been shaped by non-religious folks and folks from other religions probably as much as it’s been shaped by pastors and Christians.

Edited November 9, 2023 by ScotsAU