Aufan59 83 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, auburnatl1 said: So who created the Golden Gate Bridge? Not sure without looking it up. Did god know the Golden Gate Bridge would be created when he created the universe? Could he have created a universe where the Golden Gate Bridge was not created? If he is all powerful and all knowing, the answer to both of those questions is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnatl1 5,227 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Aufan59 said: Not sure without looking it up. Did god know the Golden Gate Bridge would be created when he created the universe? Could he have created a universe where the Golden Gate Bridge was not created? If he is all powerful and all knowing, the answer to both of those questions is yes. Huh? That’s puppeteer circular logic on steroids. Regardless, if that’s make sense to you - go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 83 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said: Huh? That’s puppeteer circular logic on steroids. Regardless, if that’s make sense to you - go for it. You don't think god knew that the Golden Gate Bridge would be created before it was created? So you don't believe in an all knowing god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnatl1 5,227 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Aufan59 said: You don't think god knew that the Golden Gate Bridge would be created before it was created? So you don't believe in an all knowing god? Omnipotence 101. But there’s a difference between setting up the chess board vs playing it. Knowing what going to happen isnt controlling it. Free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 83 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said: Omnipotence 101. But there’s a difference between setting up the chess board vs playing it. Knowing what going to happen isnt controlling it. Free will. He set up the chess board, made the rules, and created the players. He knew the chess game would result in unspeakable evils. He did not have to set up the chess board at all but still did, despite knowing what unspeakable evils would follow. He didn't choose to create it a different way that would have not resulted in evil. This is pure evil, and should be recognized as such. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnatl1 5,227 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Aufan59 said: He set up the chess board, made the rules, and created the players. He knew the chess game would result in unspeakable evils. He did not have to set up the chess board at all but still did, despite knowing what unspeakable evils would follow. He didn't choose to create it a different way that would have not resulted in evil. This is pure evil, and should be recognized as such. We’re in a loop. Go evil-mania I guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 83 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said: We’re in a loop. Go evil-mania I guess. You keep giving examples of a god that is not all powerful and all knowing. My reasoning only applies to an all powerful, all knowing god. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne Pride 379 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Good Lawd… I thought the football discussion threads were populated by hard headed people. I will not venture back over here in the future. God speed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnatl1 5,227 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, Aufan59 said: You keep giving examples of a god that is not all powerful and all knowing. My reasoning only applies to an all powerful, all knowing god. If we’re robots mindlessly following gods xbox controller commands - Id see your point. But again, God (per scripture) clearly backs off and allows for free will. Even the free will to see him as evil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,901 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said: If we’re robots mindlessly following gods xbox controller commands - Id see your point. But again, God (per scripture) clearly backs off and allows for free will. Even the free will to see him as evil. Good job natl1. Glad you brought up the Golden Gate and chess. Don’t need to get into Little League and kids not making the all star team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 83 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said: If we’re robots mindlessly following gods xbox controller commands - Id see your point. But again, God (per scripture) clearly backs off and allows for free will. Even the free will to see him as evil. He gave us the free will to commit evil, which he knew we would commit. God did not have to create us as is, or at all. But he still chose to create evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,901 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Aufan59 said: But he still chose to create evil. He created you to create good. You are allowed to choose evil. Edited October 30, 2023 by SaltyTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnatl1 5,227 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said: Good job natl1. Glad you brought up the Golden Gate and chess. Don’t need to get into Little League and kids not making the all star team. Actually I’m not your classical religious person. But I try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,901 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Just now, auburnatl1 said: Actually I’m not your classical religious person. But I try. Same here but find this very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 83 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said: He created you to create good. You are allowed to choose evil. You are starting to get it. Why would a god create a universe that allows for us to choose evil? Why would god create a universe where he knew people would choose evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnatl1 5,227 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Aufan59 said: He gave us the free will to commit evil, which he knew we would commit. God did not have to create us as is, or at all. But he still chose to create evil. Damn it 59 I get it😇 And god I guess made AU endlessly fire coaches. That would simplify the forums on who to blame that we stink. Life and its choices is a tough gig sometimes. Is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,499 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) On 10/28/2023 at 3:45 PM, auburnatl1 said: Not even sure what you’re talking about but if you can read the 4 gospels and see “evil”… ok. People are wired how they’re wired. I don't think the folks he's talking about restrict themselves to the 4 gospels. Even so, there's content in there that reinforces the "condemnation to hell narrative." Edited October 30, 2023 by homersapien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,499 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 On 10/28/2023 at 2:08 PM, jj3jordan said: Nope, just a prediction of our eventual passing. No, more like a prediction of what happens after our eventual passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,499 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 As this thread so clearly indicates, one cannot argue logic with religious faith - at least religious faith based on the bible. Such faith is antithetical to logic, by definition. Faith is ultimately based on emotions, of which fear plays a large role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of A Tiger 570 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Every time I read a long thread like this I am reminded of Proverbs 12:15 "The way of fools seems right to them, but the wise listen to advice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,499 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said: Every time I read a long thread like this I am reminded of Proverbs 12:15 "The way of fools seems right to them, but the wise listen to advice." That cuts both ways. Excellent proverb though. Edited October 30, 2023 by homersapien 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,464 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 The God I know is all about love. The God I know has filled the world with every resource we need, both natural and, in regard to our human abilities. We choose evil. We choose to live with more concern as to what is "ours" rather than, being kind, generous, peaceful, thankful. For the most part,,, we reject God and, believe in ourselves, our traditions, customs, tribes, systems, beliefs, ideologies. We attempt to create our own, more palatable version of right and wrong. I believe God knew from the beginning that,,, as a whole, we would fail. However, those who attempt to live the narrative of "love your neighbor as yourself" have the chance to overcome the evil of this world. We too often consider life as a series of achievements/accomplishments, in the worldly sense. Understandable, this world is all we know. IMHO, it is much more important to learn and grow in the sense of understanding ourselves and, understanding God. Turn the other cheek, love all as yourself, show mercy, give without resentment,,, reject evil. IMHO, rejecting evil is accepting God and, being of this world is rejecting God. God has a way of reaching out to us. However, we often fail to see or hear God. God is not evil. God did not fail us. We are evil. We reject God. We take the credit for God's blessings and then, blame God for the evils. We are all God's children. May God's love and mercy save us all. I pray that one day, we will all accept the truth of love, charity, mercy in abundance. Hate no one. Even those who hate you. God is pure love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufan59 83 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 46 minutes ago, icanthearyou said: The God I know is all about love. The God I know has filled the world with every resource we need, both natural and, in regard to our human abilities. We choose evil. We choose to live with more concern as to what is "ours" rather than, being kind, generous, peaceful, thankful. For the most part,,, we reject God and, believe in ourselves, our traditions, customs, tribes, systems, beliefs, ideologies. We attempt to create our own, more palatable version of right and wrong. I believe God knew from the beginning that,,, as a whole, we would fail. However, those who attempt to live the narrative of "love your neighbor as yourself" have the chance to overcome the evil of this world. We too often consider life as a series of achievements/accomplishments, in the worldly sense. Understandable, this world is all we know. IMHO, it is much more important to learn and grow in the sense of understanding ourselves and, understanding God. Turn the other cheek, love all as yourself, show mercy, give without resentment,,, reject evil. IMHO, rejecting evil is accepting God and, being of this world is rejecting God. God has a way of reaching out to us. However, we often fail to see or hear God. God is not evil. God did not fail us. We are evil. We reject God. We take the credit for God's blessings and then, blame God for the evils. We are all God's children. May God's love and mercy save us all. I pray that one day, we will all accept the truth of love, charity, mercy in abundance. Hate no one. Even those who hate you. God is pure love. God knew we would fail, why did he still create us? That was the evil decision. Isn’t he powerful enough to create humans that wouldn’t fail? Blaming people for god’s failures is like blaming the players when the coach failed. Or blaming the students when the teacher failed. Or blaming the customers when the business failed. Etc. For god to have knowingly and intentionally created a world that would result in evil, he must himself be evil. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,901 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 23 hours ago, Aufan59 said: You are starting to get it. Why would a god create a universe that allows for us to choose evil? Why would god create a universe where he knew people would choose evil? I have answered the questions in previous post. Are you confused? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyTiger 7,901 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, homersapien said: at least religious faith based on the bible. So what basis can be used? The Christian faith is rooted from the Bible. What type of “fear” are you talking about? Edited October 31, 2023 by SaltyTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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