New evidence may destroy Biden’s defense in his classified documents case

[DKW 86 7,425]

New evidence may destroy Biden’s defense in his classified documents case

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/4254963-new-evidence-may-destroy-bidens-defense-in-his-classified-documents-case/

This week, the House Oversight Committee released a new timeline on the discovery of classified documents in various locations associated with Biden. From the outset, many of us flagged problems with the account that had been given by Biden, who insisted that he had no knowledge or involvement in the removal or use of the documents.

The most glaring problem is that, after they were removed at the end of his term as vice president, the documents were repeatedly moved and divided up. Some were found in the Penn Center office used by Biden in Washington, D.C. Others were found in his garage and reportedly in his library. 

Biden made clear from the beginning that he expected the investigation to be perfunctory and brief. He publicly declared that he has “no regrets” over his own conduct and told the public that the documents investigation would soon peter out when it determined that “there is no ‘there’ there.”

Now, however, it appears that a critical claim by the White House in the scandal may not only be false, but was knowingly false at the time it was made. The White House and Biden’s counsel have long maintained that, as soon as documents were discovered in the D.C. office, they notified the national archives. Many asked why they did not call the FBI, but the White House has at least maintained that, unlike Trump, they took immediate action to notify authorities.

However, it now appears that this was not true. One of the closest aides to Biden and a close friend to Hunter Biden is Annie Tomasini. She referred to Hunter as her “brother” and signed off messages with “LY” or “love you.”

Tomasini was once a senior aide to Joe Biden and, according to the Oversight Committee, inspected the classified material on March 18, 2021, two months after Biden took office — nearly 20 months before they were said to be found by the Biden team.

The committee now alleges that the White House “omitted months of communications, planning, and coordinating among multiple White House officials, [Kathy] Chung, Penn Biden Center employees, and President Biden’s personal attorneys to retrieve the boxes containing classified materials. The timeline also omitted multiple visits from at least five White House employees, including Dana Remus, Anthony Bernal, Ashley Williams, Annie Tomasini, and an unknown staffer.”

If true, the evidence demolishes the timeline long maintained by the Biden team. That could have an immediate impact on both the criminal and impeachment investigations.

The timeline has been a critical distinction drawn by the White House in distinguishing this matter from the Trump indictment, in which Smith charged the former president with 37 counts, including retaining classified information, obstructing justice and making false statements, and other charges.

Biden insisted that he was entirely “surprised” by the discovery of the documents in Nov. 2021. He echoed the narrative of both his lawyers and the media at large: “And they did what they should have done,” he said. “They immediately called the Archives — immediately called the Archives, turned them over to the Archives, and I was briefed about this discovery.”

In reality, Biden’s counsel and associates conducted repeated searches and declared repeatedly that no further classified documents were found. That was repeatedly found to be untrue.

Moreover, the concern is that Biden’s lawyers, in the course of these private searches, may have consolidated material and contaminated the scene by the time FBI agents conducted their searches. This includes changing how documents were originally stored and whether classified markings were visible to anyone working around the Biden home or garage.

Now it appears that the discovery had actually been made months earlier. The timeline would now more closely mirror Trump’s timeline in the knowing retention of classified material, the failure to turn over all of the classified material despite assurances from counsel, and alleged false accounts about the document’s discovery.

It is not clear what Hur can do if he finds either from witnesses or forensic testing (including perhaps fingerprints on the documents) that President Biden lied.

[AUDub 11,149]

Christ you’re grasping at straws to equivocate between Trump’s removal of documents and Biden’s. 

[I_M4_AU 7,842]

Its amazing how Biden supporters are unwilling to say a bad word about him and his actions. 

[AU9377 4,934]

38 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

New evidence may destroy Biden’s defense in his classified documents case

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/4254963-new-evidence-may-destroy-bidens-defense-in-his-classified-documents-case/

This week, the House Oversight Committee released a new timeline on the discovery of classified documents in various locations associated with Biden. From the outset, many of us flagged problems with the account that had been given by Biden, who insisted that he had no knowledge or involvement in the removal or use of the documents.

The most glaring problem is that, after they were removed at the end of his term as vice president, the documents were repeatedly moved and divided up. Some were found in the Penn Center office used by Biden in Washington, D.C. Others were found in his garage and reportedly in his library. 

Biden made clear from the beginning that he expected the investigation to be perfunctory and brief. He publicly declared that he has “no regrets” over his own conduct and told the public that the documents investigation would soon peter out when it determined that “there is no ‘there’ there.”

Now, however, it appears that a critical claim by the White House in the scandal may not only be false, but was knowingly false at the time it was made. The White House and Biden’s counsel have long maintained that, as soon as documents were discovered in the D.C. office, they notified the national archives. Many asked why they did not call the FBI, but the White House has at least maintained that, unlike Trump, they took immediate action to notify authorities.

However, it now appears that this was not true. One of the closest aides to Biden and a close friend to Hunter Biden is Annie Tomasini. She referred to Hunter as her “brother” and signed off messages with “LY” or “love you.”

Tomasini was once a senior aide to Joe Biden and, according to the Oversight Committee, inspected the classified material on March 18, 2021, two months after Biden took office — nearly 20 months before they were said to be found by the Biden team.

The committee now alleges that the White House “omitted months of communications, planning, and coordinating among multiple White House officials, [Kathy] Chung, Penn Biden Center employees, and President Biden’s personal attorneys to retrieve the boxes containing classified materials. The timeline also omitted multiple visits from at least five White House employees, including Dana Remus, Anthony Bernal, Ashley Williams, Annie Tomasini, and an unknown staffer.”

If true, the evidence demolishes the timeline long maintained by the Biden team. That could have an immediate impact on both the criminal and impeachment investigations.

The timeline has been a critical distinction drawn by the White House in distinguishing this matter from the Trump indictment, in which Smith charged the former president with 37 counts, including retaining classified information, obstructing justice and making false statements, and other charges.

Biden insisted that he was entirely “surprised” by the discovery of the documents in Nov. 2021. He echoed the narrative of both his lawyers and the media at large: “And they did what they should have done,” he said. “They immediately called the Archives — immediately called the Archives, turned them over to the Archives, and I was briefed about this discovery.”

In reality, Biden’s counsel and associates conducted repeated searches and declared repeatedly that no further classified documents were found. That was repeatedly found to be untrue.

Moreover, the concern is that Biden’s lawyers, in the course of these private searches, may have consolidated material and contaminated the scene by the time FBI agents conducted their searches. This includes changing how documents were originally stored and whether classified markings were visible to anyone working around the Biden home or garage.

Now it appears that the discovery had actually been made months earlier. The timeline would now more closely mirror Trump’s timeline in the knowing retention of classified material, the failure to turn over all of the classified material despite assurances from counsel, and alleged false accounts about the document’s discovery.

It is not clear what Hur can do if he finds either from witnesses or forensic testing (including perhaps fingerprints on the documents) that President Biden lied.

I wouldn't hang my hat on that.  This would have never even been an issue but for Biden self reporting.

[auburnatl1 4,932]

The entire document process needs to be overhauled. Perpetual mess.

[DKW 86 7,425]

13 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

I wouldn't hang my hat on that.  This would have never even been an issue but for Biden self reporting.

After 20+ months of hiding the documents, pretty much just as trump did.

[DKW 86 7,425]

52 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Christ you’re grasping at straws to equivocate between Trump’s removal of documents and Biden’s. 

Biden has been in DC 50 years and apparently cant figure out dealing with classified docs even after that long. 

[AUDub 11,149]

3 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Biden has been in DC 50 years and apparently cant figure out dealing with classified docs even after that long. 

If you realize just how nebulous dealing with those docs happens to be you’d realize there are practically no parties in DC that haven’t done the same. Hell there’s probably a shoebox full of them in a fogotten corner of a room housing Reagan’s stuff as we speak lol. 

Trump not only brazenly took them, he attempted to profit off of them. There is no equivalence. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by AUDub

[DKW 86 7,425]

2 minutes ago, AUDub said:

If you realize just how nebulous dealing with those docs happens to be you’d realize there are practically no parties in DC that haven’t done the same. Hell there’s probably a shoebox full of them in a fogotten corner of a room housing Reagan’s stuff as we speak lol. 

Trump not only brazenly took them, he attempted to profit off of them. There is no equivalence. 

And Biden was holding them at his home, his office, his garage for what purpose? Why was he holding on to documents from when he was in the Senate, prior to 2008?

Edited October 15, 2023 by DKW 86

[AU9377 4,934]

7 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

After 20+ months of hiding the documents, pretty much just as trump did.

The two set of facts couldn't be more different.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-vs-trump-what-is-difference-between-two-classified-records-cases-2023-01-12/

[AUDub 11,149]

1 minute ago, DKW 86 said:

And Biden was holding them at his home, his office, his garage for what purpose? Why was he holding on to documents from when he was in the Senate, prior to 2008?

What is and is not privileged is nebulous AF is what it comes down to.

[DKW 86 7,425]

10 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The two set of facts couldn't be more different.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-vs-trump-what-is-difference-between-two-classified-records-cases-2023-01-12/

That was written before new info came out.

[homersapien 11,377]

54 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

That was written before new info came out.

Can you cite any evidence that shows Biden refused to return the documents when asked to?

 

[homersapien 11,377]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

After 20+ months of hiding the documents, pretty much just as trump did.

"hiding"?  

[AU9377 4,934]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

That was written before new info came out.

That new info is anything but a slam dunk proving Biden intentionally removed and withheld confidential info.  Of course, Biden could pull a Trump and actually declassify anything found.

The point is this.... even with all of Trump's intentional withholding of documents, he would have never been charged with a crime had he complied with the requests to return those documents.

Edited October 15, 2023 by AU9377

[homersapien 11,377]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

After 20+ months of hiding the documents, pretty much just as trump did.

And if Trump had returned them voluntarily or after being asked, he would never have been indicted either.

The fact is, simply possessing or retaining classified documents - at least by persons who were sent or provided those documents in the first place - is not prosecuted in this country.  (If it were, maybe politicians would be more careful about retaining them.)

However right or wrong it may be, simply retaining such documents - for whatever period of time, if the possessor voluntarily returns them they are not prosecuted.  (As we also know from Pence.)

So, bottom line, and like it or not, there is no new information that would merit an indictment of Biden. 

 

 

[jj3jordan 2,053]

3 hours ago, AUDub said:

If you realize just how nebulous dealing with those docs happens to be you’d realize there are practically no parties in DC that haven’t done the same. Hell there’s probably a shoebox full of them in a fogotten corner of a room housing Reagan’s stuff as we speak lol. 

Trump not only brazenly took them, he attempted to profit off of them. There is no equivalence. 

I dealt with them for 20 years in the USAF. Not nebulous at all. Very specific and very clear guidance. You just have to comply and be diligent. Trumps situation is clouded by his being president and the ultimate declassification authority. Maybe he did maybe he didn’t. Biden has no authority like that from senate or vp. So you are correct. It is not the same.

[homersapien 11,377]

12 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

I dealt with them for 20 years in the USAF. Not nebulous at all. Very specific and very clear guidance. You just have to comply and be diligent. Trumps situation is clouded by his being president and the ultimate declassification authority. Maybe he did maybe he didn’t. Biden has no authority like that from senate or vp. So you are correct. It is not the same.

You are quite the contortionist when you focus on your purpose.

[DKW 86 7,425]

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

Can you cite any evidence that shows Biden refused to return the documents when asked to?

 

 

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

"hiding"?  

Read the report. Bidena nd his attorneys knew about the documents, and lied to the Archivists, for some 20 months before finally coming forward with them. They were moved, and reorganized during the 20 month period by upto 5 staff members. They are now fingerprinting the documents to determine who had handled them and to try and determine how many lied to the investigators. 

To Biden's credit, they did return the documents once they were asked for. But some of the documents dated all the way back prior to 2008. So Biden or his staff had some classified documents, we dont know what kind of documents yet, that he held for 12-14 years or so, maybe longer.

[homersapien 11,377]

14 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

To Biden's credit, they did return the documents once they were asked for. But some of the documents dated all the way back prior to 2008. So Biden or his staff had some classified documents, we dont know what kind of documents yet, that he held for 12-14 years or so, maybe longer.

I am not trying to make excuses for Biden but keep in mind the sort of documents that are typically classified - such as invitation lists for state dinners and travel intineraries.

Edited October 16, 2023 by homersapien

[jj3jordan 2,053]

20 hours ago, homersapien said:

You are quite the contortionist when you focus on your purpose.

Thank you?

[AU9377 4,934]

21 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

I dealt with them for 20 years in the USAF. Not nebulous at all. Very specific and very clear guidance. You just have to comply and be diligent. Trumps situation is clouded by his being president and the ultimate declassification authority. Maybe he did maybe he didn’t. Biden has no authority like that from senate or vp. So you are correct. It is not the same.

There is no doubt that Trump did not de-classify the documents.  Once someone is no longer President, they don't have that authority.  While President, there is a process for declassification.  Regardless, had he returned the documents when requested, none of this would be an issue today.  The classification process does need to be overhauled.  Without showing that the documents were intentionally removed and held, there won't be a prosecution.

[I_M4_AU 7,842]

2 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Once someone is no longer President, they don't have that authority. 

What if they never were President when the documents were taken?  Does that make a difference?

[AU9377 4,934]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

What if they never were President when the documents were taken?  Does that make a difference?

The statute still requires intent.  As for declassification, I would assume a current president can retro-declassify anything.  Practically speaking, he wouldn't likely do that for political reasons, but he likely could.

[I_M4_AU 7,842]

1 minute ago, AU9377 said:

The statute still requires intent.  As for declassification, I would assume a current president can retro-declassify anything.  Practically speaking, he wouldn't likely do that for political reasons, but he likely could.

Are you saying Biden didn’t intend to take documents he wasn’t allowed to possess?  Make that make sense.