The Iraqi civil war continues...

[CCTAU 3,346]

The surge won't work. It's CIVIL war, I tell you. We should pull out. We can't win.

Where are all the dim leaders now?

Attacks in Baghdad fall 80 percent-Iraq military

16 Feb 2008 15:56:12 GMT

Source: Reuters

(adds Maliki touring Baghdad, UNHCR visit)

By Aws Qusay

BAGHDAD, Feb 16 (Reuters) - Attacks by insurgents and rival sectarian militias have fallen up to 80 percent in Baghdad and concrete blast walls that divide the capital could soon be removed, a senior Iraqi military official said on Saturday.

Lieutenant-General Abboud Qanbar said the success of a year-long clampdown named "Operation Imposing Law" had reined in the savage violence between majority Shi'ites and minority Sunni Arabs dominant under Saddam Hussein.

"In a time when you could hear nothing but explosions, gunfire and the screams of mothers and fathers and sons, and see bodies that were burned and dismembered, the people of Baghdad were awaiting Operation Imposing Law," Qanbar told reporters.

Continued

[RunInRed 16,487]

So now we are on a peace-keeping mission? Perhaps even an attempt at "nation building"? The point of the surge was to advance/allow political reconciliations between the Sunni, Shia and Kurds - NOT just reduce the violence. And by all measures, political reconciliation has not happened. Why are you guys so unwilling to understand: there is no military solution in Iraq. We have lost over 300 troops since the surge started.

The voice of reason:

"Our troops have performed brilliantly in Iraq, but no amount of American soldiers can solve the political differences at the heart of somebody else's civil war"

"The surge has lowered the level of violence in Iraq from the horrific levels of 2006, but it has completely failed to resolve the political grievances at the heart of Iraq's civil war. Meanwhile, we continue to take casualties, our military is overstretched and our military leadership warns that Afghanistan risks sliding into chaos without more troops."

[Auburn85 432]

so were some expecting iraq to be a utopian like country after 5 - 6 years? i don't think i have to discuss that slavery didn't technically end in our contry til 1865. We had a civil war. women didn't have the right to vote until the 1900s. The civil rights act was passed until almost 100 years after slaves were technically freed.

Yet, after 5-6 years we wonder why they don't respect woman. Why they don't have 100% employment. Why they don't get along. Iraq will never be able to accomplish at a pace of 20th century America or better yet, (21st century America) at an instant gratification pace.

right, there's no military solution. that's why we're trying to cut down on the violence to allow political progress. i don't see any of our troops or petraus making any parlimentary votes or trying to pass legislation.

[RunInRed 16,487]

so were some expecting iraq to be a utopian like country after 5 - 6 years? i don't think i have to discuss that slavery didn't technically end in our contry til 1865. We had a civil war. women didn't have the right to vote until the 1900s. The civil rights act was passed until almost 100 years after slaves were technically freed.

Yet, after 5-6 years we wonder why they don't respect woman. Why they don't have 100% employment. Why they don't get along. Iraq will never be able to accomplish at a pace of 20th century America or better yet, (21st century America) at an instant gratification pace.

right, there's no military solution. that's why we're trying to cut down on the violence to allow political progress. i don't see any of our troops or petraus making any parlimentary votes or trying to pass legislation.

So you would agree then that we are nation building? Sure was not the bill of goods we were sold back in 2002. This is the result of the politics of fear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfv4nC3xyr0

[Auburn85 432]

I'm well aware that the war was based on Saddam and WMD. Ok, they're weren't any. Now what?

Do we just go "oh well, sorry for entering the country. we're going to leave now without fixing it. See ya"

Was the plan to just think Saddam would give us free reign in finding the WMD and we just leave him in power?

I agree that when Rumsfeld was running the show, he did an absolute piss poor job. Now, the right strategy has been installed. Whether it pans out still remains to be seen. How long do you feel the war should have taken?

Do you feel there will be great consequences if we pull out now?

[RunInRed 16,487]

I'm well aware that the war was based on Saddam and WMD. Ok, they're weren't any. Now what?

Do we just go "oh well, sorry for entering the country. we're going to leave now without fixing it. See ya"

Was the plan to just think Saddam would give us free reign in finding the WMD and we just leave him in power?

I agree that when Rumsfeld was running the show, he did an absolute piss poor job. Now, the right strategy has been installed. Whether it pans out still remains to be seen. How long do you feel the war should have taken?

Do you feel there will be great consequences if we pull out now?

Better question: what is the mission? If you are a 21yr old on your 3rd, 4th tour of duty...what's your objective? I'm not exactly a "cut-and-run" kind of guy but after five years, no political reconciliation and no end in site, I say enough is enough. Burying your head in the sand and praying for the best is not exactly a strategy. You can not force democracy upon a people through the barrell of a gun. No amount of time, soldiers or resources are going to create the middle east stability that we all hope for. Like any other successful democracy, the people have to stand up and fight for it themselves, which has not happened.

Again - there is no military solution. So a blank check and us parking 100k troops there indefinitely will not do any body any good.

[CircleDrill 178]

I kind of agree with that. What is the mission? Well, hardcore conservatives will say "to win the war." Well, how do you know when you have won the war?

That's all I want to know. What objectives must be reached for us to say OK we have done our job now?

The only thing that will fix Iraq is education and time, honestly. Those are great points above about women and civil rights.

[CCTAU 3,346]

Every dim is cut and run. They just use different words.

There were WMDs. Just not as many as we thought. Sadaam is gone. Iraq wants to be free, it just take a while. It seems that now, we have helped them create a sense of security. That sense of security will help their government have more time to really address the issues with an open mind and not under the gun, so to speak. The surge is working. Doesn't matter that all achmed Obama can talk about is how we got there, but not intelligently address what we will do in the future, other than leave. The plan was to depose Sadaam (we did), get rid of any WMDs' (we did), and to help the people set up a more democratic government (we are). The first two were easily achieved through military strength. The big one will take time. I love how all of you anti-war history buffs forget that we did not even have a constitution until 10 years after our war of independence, but you were bitching about Iraq not having one in 1 year.

And to the numbnut that said we are not there to just reduce the violence? What a scholar you are. But if we don't reduce the violence, then nothing else moves forward and the terrorists win.

We will know that we have won this stage of the war on terror when we can withdraw our troops as Iraqi troops take over with almost the same results. Once again, you dims think we can force 20 years of military training onto the Iraqi army in 2 or 3. Until they get experienced leaders, we will need to be there to lead and advise. And how can you go in and kill a country's leader without getting into some sort of nation building?

VIOLENCE IS DOWN IN IRAQ. THERE IS NO CIVIL WAR. THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR DIMS.

Hey, let me know when you find that 21 yr old on his 4th tour.

[RunInRed 16,487]

We've found and destroyed WMDs? Anyone besides me miss this bulletin?! Our mission was to dispose SH? If that's the threshold for war, I suppose President CCTAU will be invading NK, Iran, Syria and other rogue nations with vicious dictators soon.

I love your attempt to rewrite history. How about replying with some FACTS next time.

[CCTAU 3,346]

We've found and destroyed WMDs? Anyone besides me miss this bulletin?! Our mission was to dispose SH? If that's the threshold for war, I suppose President CCTAU will be invading NK, Iran, Syria and other rogue nations with vicious dictators soon.

I love your attempt to rewrite history. How about replying with some FACTS next time.

You're nothing more than a freaking parrot for the dims. WMDs were found and destroyed, just not as much as we thought there were.

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...c=25784&hl=

[RunInRed 16,487]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.

“After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted,” wrote Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last fall.

“As matters now stand, the WMD investigation has gone as far as feasible.”

[CCTAU 3,346]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.

“After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted,” wrote Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last fall.

“As matters now stand, the WMD investigation has gone as far as feasible.”

Like I told others, "Too bad they can't open one of those old, degraded, unfeasible canisters in your house". I'm sure the smugness over not finding ANY WMDs would disappear....along with your skin.

The rest of us define WMDs as anything that might kill over 100 of us at one time. The WMDs that they did find may not have been new, but they were there and still could kill. So as the report was trying to verify the accusations of STOCKPILES of WMDs, apparently the CIA guy failed to see the report where WMDs had already been found. Just because it was a small amount compared to what we thought, doesn't mean it would not have wiped out everyone on your block had a terrorist got hold of it. So keep spewing the party line, it's old rhetoric. Bush is not running for president. There is NO civil war in Irag. Violence is down. The war is progressing positively. And there seems to be no 21 year old soldiers in their 4th tour in Iraq.

[autiger4life 3]

I for one am thrilled that violence has gone down in Iraq. I thought the surge did make sense and am thrilled to see it working. Hopefully we can parlay this into actually forming the government, though I am not optimistic.

Every dim is cut and run. They just use different words.

Not me, I am a slice and sprint. Juuuuust kidding.

I guess I side with Thomas Friedman on this(wrote The World is Flat)

If we are going to go in and try to spread democracy to Iraq, the single most important thing that we must first decide is if Iraq wants democracy and is willing to work for it. I don't believe they really do/are. We tote this line of democracy will work for all countries and so on but the truth is it won't. These people have grown up only knowing dictators, so it will be only to easy for them to become democratic and then have another dictator. Look at Russia, they were so used to Communism that when they finally became democratic they are now beginning to fall back the other way.

Until all of the factions of Iraq are willing to come together and settle their religious differences, nothing we do there is going to make them a democratic country. They have to want it first.

[Tigermike 3,054]

We've found and destroyed WMDs? Anyone besides me miss this bulletin?! Our mission was to dispose SH? If that's the threshold for war, I suppose President CCTAU will be invading NK, Iran, Syria and other rogue nations with vicious dictators soon.

I love your attempt to rewrite history. How about replying with some FACTS next time.

Did Saddam Hussein ever have them and did he ever use them?

[RunInRed 16,487]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331361,00.html

Radical Shiite Cleric Muqtada al-Sadr May Lift 6-Month Ceasefire by Saturday

Wednesday, February 20, 2008

BAGHDAD — Anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr may let a six-month cease-fire expire as soon as Saturday, an aide said — a move that could send his Shiite militia fighters back out on the streets and jeopardize recent security gains that have led to a sharp decline in violence.

Iraqi police, meanwhile, held funerals Wednesday for 14 officers killed the night before as they responded to a rocket attack launched from a predominantly Shiite neighborhood against U.S. bases in the capital.

In a separate attack, three American troops were killed by a roadside bomb Tuesday night in northwestern Baghdad, the U.S. military said. Their names were not released.

Al-Sadr's Shiite Mahdi Army is among the most powerful militias in Iraq, and the cease-fire he ordered last August has been credited with helping reduce violence around Iraq by 60 percent or more in the past six months.

Sheik Salah al-Obeidi, a spokesman for al-Sadr in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, said that if the cleric failed to issue a statement by Saturday saying that the cease-fire was extended, "then that means the freeze is over." Al-Sadr's followers would be free to resume attacks.

On an Internet site representing al-Sadr, al-Obeidi said that al-Sadr "either will announce the extension or will stay silent and not announce anything. If he will stay silent that means that the freeze is over."

Al-Obeidi said that message "has been conveyed to all Mahdi Army members nationwide."

Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, a military spokesman, said in an e-mailed statement that the cease-fire declared by al-Sadr's last August was good for the Iraqi people.

"Al-Sayyid Muqtada al-Sadr's cease-fire has been helpful in reducing violence and has led to improved security in Iraq. We would welcome the extension of the cease-fire as a positive step," he said, using an honorific reserved for descendants of the Prophet Muhammad.

While the U.S. has welcomed the cease-fire, it also has insisted on continuing to stage raids against what it calls Iranian-backed breakaway factions of the Mahdi Army militia — moved that have angered the cleric's followers.

Influential members of al-Sadr's movement said earlier this month they had urged the radical cleric to call off the cease-fire, which was initially set to expire at the end of the month.

Al-Sadr's followers have claimed the U.S.-Iraqi raids, particularly in the southern Shiite cities of Diwaniyah, Basra and Karbala, are a pretext to crack down on the wider movement, which has pulled its support for the Washington-backed government.

A Sunni parliament member, Asmaa al-Dulaimi, said that if the truce is broken it would hurt the prospects for national reconciliation "and will further deteriorate the security situation nationwide."

"Resuming their activities, whether against the government or civilians, will lead to a new confrontation with them," she said.

No one has claimed responsibility for Tuesday's rocket attack, the second in as many days, but in both cases the explosives apparently were launched from Shiite militia strongholds in the capital, underscoring the fragility of the truce. Smith, at a news conference later Wednesday, blamed Iranian-backed Shiite militias for the attacks but said the rationale behind the timing of the attacks was unclear.

The blast that killed the Iraqis occurred after police, acting on a tip, discovered rockets primed for firing behind a deserted ice factory.

A band played Wednesday as four pick-up trucks carried the coffins of the slain police in a slow-moving funeral procession. Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani walked with other officials at the back of the line.

Brig. Gen. Jihad al-Jubouri, head of the anti-bombing squad at the Interior Ministry, said the blast killed 11 bomb experts and three other officers.

A dust storm that has gripped much of Iraq for the last two days kept police from identifying a booby trap that set off the initial explosion, he said. The storms, which shut down the capital's airport and sent dozens of Baghdad residents to hospitals with breathing difficulties, were expected to abate Thursday.

Officials had initially said that as many as 15 police were slain and up to 27 wounded.

Four U.S. soldiers were wounded in Tuesday's rocket attack against their outposts in the capital, the military said.

On Monday, a rocket volley landed on an Iraqi housing complex near the Baghdad international airport and a nearby U.S. military base, killing at least five people and wounding 16, including two U.S. soldiers, officials said.

The attacks have been among the most intense to strike the capital in weeks as violence has declined sharply with an influx of some 30,000 U.S. troops, a Sunni revolt against Al Qaeda in Iraq and al-Sadr's cease-fire.

In other developments, Samir al-Attar, deputy minister of Iraq's Ministry of Science and Technology, was wounded Wednesday when two roadside bombs detonated near his convoy about a minute apart as he was driving through Baghdad, according to police and ministry officials. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't allowed to release the information.

And in Diyala province north of Baghdad, where U.S. and Iraqi forces are working to push out Al Qaeda in Iraq, a suicide bomber's belt detonated near a line of people who were buying bread Wednesday, killing seven and wounding 17, said an official in the provincial command operation center, who also spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to release the information.

[Tigermike 3,054]

Radical Shiite Cleric Muqtada al-Sadr May Lift 6-Month Ceasefire by Saturday

Wednesday, February 20, 2008

BAGHDAD — Anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr may let a six-month cease-fire expire as soon as Saturday, an aide said — a move that could send his Shiite militia fighters back out on the streets and jeopardize recent security gains that have led to a sharp decline in violence.

Iraqi police, meanwhile, held funerals Wednesday for 14 officers killed the night before as they responded to a rocket attack launched from a predominantly Shiite neighborhood against U.S. bases in the capital.

In a separate attack, three American troops were killed by a roadside bomb Tuesday night in northwestern Baghdad, the U.S. military said. Their names were not released.

Al-Sadr's Shiite Mahdi Army is among the most powerful militias in Iraq, and the cease-fire he ordered last August has been credited with helping reduce violence around Iraq by 60 percent or more in the past six months.

Sheik Salah al-Obeidi, a spokesman for al-Sadr in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, said that if the cleric failed to issue a statement by Saturday saying that the cease-fire was extended, "then that means the freeze is over." Al-Sadr's followers would be free to resume attacks.

On an Internet site representing al-Sadr, al-Obeidi said that al-Sadr "either will announce the extension or will stay silent and not announce anything. If he will stay silent that means that the freeze is over."

Al-Obeidi said that message "has been conveyed to all Mahdi Army members nationwide."

Rear Adm. Gregory Smith, a military spokesman, said in an e-mailed statement that the cease-fire declared by al-Sadr's last August was good for the Iraqi people.

"Al-Sayyid Muqtada al-Sadr's cease-fire has been helpful in reducing violence and has led to improved security in Iraq. We would welcome the extension of the cease-fire as a positive step," he said, using an honorific reserved for descendants of the Prophet Muhammad.

While the U.S. has welcomed the cease-fire, it also has insisted on continuing to stage raids against what it calls Iranian-backed breakaway factions of the Mahdi Army militia — moved that have angered the cleric's followers.

Influential members of al-Sadr's movement said earlier this month they had urged the radical cleric to call off the cease-fire, which was initially set to expire at the end of the month.

Al-Sadr's followers have claimed the U.S.-Iraqi raids, particularly in the southern Shiite cities of Diwaniyah, Basra and Karbala, are a pretext to crack down on the wider movement, which has pulled its support for the Washington-backed government.

A Sunni parliament member, Asmaa al-Dulaimi, said that if the truce is broken it would hurt the prospects for national reconciliation "and will further deteriorate the security situation nationwide."

"Resuming their activities, whether against the government or civilians, will lead to a new confrontation with them," she said.

No one has claimed responsibility for Tuesday's rocket attack, the second in as many days, but in both cases the explosives apparently were launched from Shiite militia strongholds in the capital, underscoring the fragility of the truce. Smith, at a news conference later Wednesday, blamed Iranian-backed Shiite militias for the attacks but said the rationale behind the timing of the attacks was unclear.

The blast that killed the Iraqis occurred after police, acting on a tip, discovered rockets primed for firing behind a deserted ice factory.

A band played Wednesday as four pick-up trucks carried the coffins of the slain police in a slow-moving funeral procession. Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani walked with other officials at the back of the line.

Brig. Gen. Jihad al-Jubouri, head of the anti-bombing squad at the Interior Ministry, said the blast killed 11 bomb experts and three other officers.

A dust storm that has gripped much of Iraq for the last two days kept police from identifying a booby trap that set off the initial explosion, he said. The storms, which shut down the capital's airport and sent dozens of Baghdad residents to hospitals with breathing difficulties, were expected to abate Thursday.

Officials had initially said that as many as 15 police were slain and up to 27 wounded.

Four U.S. soldiers were wounded in Tuesday's rocket attack against their outposts in the capital, the military said.

On Monday, a rocket volley landed on an Iraqi housing complex near the Baghdad international airport and a nearby U.S. military base, killing at least five people and wounding 16, including two U.S. soldiers, officials said.

The attacks have been among the most intense to strike the capital in weeks as violence has declined sharply with an influx of some 30,000 U.S. troops, a Sunni revolt against Al Qaeda in Iraq and al-Sadr's cease-fire.

In other developments, Samir al-Attar, deputy minister of Iraq's Ministry of Science and Technology, was wounded Wednesday when two roadside bombs detonated near his convoy about a minute apart as he was driving through Baghdad, according to police and ministry officials. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren't allowed to release the information.

And in Diyala province north of Baghdad, where U.S. and Iraqi forces are working to push out Al Qaeda in Iraq, a suicide bomber's belt detonated near a line of people who were buying bread Wednesday, killing seven and wounding 17, said an official in the provincial command operation center, who also spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to release the information.

Where is your link? Posters are required to provide links to articles when posted.

And BTW al-Sadr has been in hiding in Iran for the past 6 - 8 months. His cease fire had more to do with saving his ass than a cease fire. Contrary to what you may want to spin, the surge has been working.