8-19, The Day Kerry Lost the Election?

[DKW 86 7,426]

The Day the Election Turned.

Thursday, August 19, 2004

August 19: The Day Kerry Lost The Election

From The Weekly Diatribe Newsletter

by David Blackmon

Some of you have probably seen the video of Kerry's statements today in front of the Fire Fighter's Union. In his speech, he called all 240 of the Swift Boat Vets liars and tools of the Bush Campaign, and gave a very strident, if vague, defense of his record in Vietnam. He also quite hypocritically condemned Bush for not asking that the Vets' group's ads be taken off the air - hypocritical because he himself refuses to condemn the ads aired on his behalf ( and with his own campaign's illegal approval) by Moveon.org and other leftist 527 organizations.

This speech today was a terrible mistake by Kerry because it now completely shifts the focus of his campaign from fomenting a hatred of the sitting President of the United States to a defense of his own record. This shift in focus now forces the major media, especially TV, to report on the Swift boat vets.

ABC News tonight aired a 4 minute piece on the controversy, which was naturally extremely slanted in Kerry's favor, but I don't think that matters. I think any focus on this issue now harms Kerry, since he has personally taken ownership of it. Before today, I thought this issue probably would do him no harm at the end of the day, because he and his friends in the major TV media were simply ignorning it. By personally replying to the Swift Boat Vets, Kerry lends them credibility, even though his intent is to slander them.

This is the biggest mistake Kerry has made in this campaign, and one that he may not be able to recover from. Prior to today, he had successfully made this campaign a choice in voters' minds about whether or not they hate George W. Bush. As of this afternoon, that focus is gone, probably never to fully return, and has now shifted to his own record.

Inevitably, that means an eventual focus on his record AFTER Vietnam, a record which cannot bear close scrutiny. Prior to today, the moribund Bush Campaign had given us no hope it could of its own efforts effect that focus shift, which is why I was verging on concluding that W was doomed to his daddy's fate in 1992. But now that Kerry has done the deed for him, W's prospects have improved immensely.

If Bush wins this election, we can look back on the afternoon of August 19 as the turning point.

[TexasTiger 12,948]

The Day the Election Turned.

Thursday, August 19, 2004

August 19: The Day Kerry Lost The Election

From The Weekly Diatribe Newsletter

by David Blackmon

Some of you have probably seen the video of Kerry's statements today in front of the Fire Fighter's Union. In his speech, he called all 240 of the Swift Boat Vets liars and tools of the Bush Campaign, and gave a very strident, if vague, defense of his record in Vietnam. He also quite hypocritically condemned Bush for not asking that the Vets' group's ads be taken off the air - hypocritical because he himself refuses to condemn the ads aired on his behalf ( and with his own campaign's illegal approval) by Moveon.org and other leftist 527 organizations.

This speech today was a terrible mistake by Kerry because it now completely shifts the focus of his campaign from fomenting a hatred of the sitting President of the United States to a defense of his own record. This shift in focus now forces the major media, especially TV, to report on the Swift boat vets.

ABC News tonight aired a 4 minute piece on the controversy, which was naturally extremely slanted in Kerry's favor, but I don't think that matters. I think any focus on this issue now harms Kerry, since he has personally taken ownership of it. Before today, I thought this issue probably would do him no harm at the end of the day, because he and his friends in the major TV media were simply ignorning it. By personally replying to the Swift Boat Vets, Kerry lends them credibility, even though his intent is to slander them.

This is the biggest mistake Kerry has made in this campaign, and one that he may not be able to recover from. Prior to today, he had successfully made this campaign a choice in voters' minds about whether or not they hate George W. Bush. As of this afternoon, that focus is gone, probably never to fully return, and has now shifted to his own record.

Inevitably, that means an eventual focus on his record AFTER Vietnam, a record which cannot bear close scrutiny. Prior to today, the moribund Bush Campaign had given us no hope it could of its own efforts effect that focus shift, which is why I was verging on concluding that W was doomed to his daddy's fate in 1992. But now that Kerry has done the deed for him, W's prospects have improved immensely.

If Bush wins this election, we can look back on the afternoon of August 19 as the turning point.

Then make your prediction.

[DKW 86 7,426]

Bush by 2-3% Nationwide.

Bush by 30 EVs.

[TexasTiger 12,948]

Bush by 2-3% Nationwide.

Bush by 30 EVs.

So do you agree with the writer's view that today is what turned the race?

[DKW 86 7,426]

Yes, the Reps are just about giddy with SVFT ads taking Kerry off his handler's leash. His campaign backed out of a session on Hannity and Colmes tonight.

Going to be a great campaign, no matter who wins.

[TexasTiger 12,948]

Yes, the Reps are just about giddy with SVFT ads taking Kerry off his handler's leash. His campaign backed out of a session on Hannity and Colmes tonight.

Going to be a great campaign, no matter who wins.

Funny, I think it is going to be a nasty, lousy campaign that hits new lows, no matter who wins.

[AURainman 6]

Yes, the Reps are just about giddy with SVFT ads taking Kerry off his handler's leash. His campaign backed out of a session on Hannity and Colmes tonight.

Going to be a great campaign, no matter who wins.

Funny, I think it is going to be a nasty, lousy campaign that hits new lows, no matter who wins.

I can agree with you on that one.

[rexbo 104]

Yes, the Reps are just about giddy with SVFT ads taking Kerry off his handler's leash. His campaign backed out of a session on Hannity and Colmes tonight.

Going to be a great campaign, no matter who wins.

Funny, I think it is going to be a nasty, lousy campaign that hits new lows, no matter who wins.

With Moveon.org and Micheal Moore and his propoganda being right out front leading the charge.

[CShine 0]

This notion might hold up if the Swift Boat allegations weren't being debunked left and right even as we speak. For this to be a decisive issue the charges have to have some credibility and what we've seen lately is that credibility is in short supply with these Swift Boat guys.

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

As one of five Swift boat skippers who led the raid up the Bay Hap River, Thurlow was a direct participant in the disputed events. He is also a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans dismayed by Kerry's subsequent antiwar activities, which has aired a controversial television advertisement attacking his war record.

In interviews and written reminiscences, Kerry has described how his 50-foot patrol boat came under fire from the banks of the Bay Hap after a mine explosion disabled another U.S. patrol boat. According to Kerry and members of his crew, the firing continued as an injured Kerry leaned over the bow of his ship to rescue a Special Forces officer who was blown overboard in a second explosion.

Last month, Thurlow swore in an affidavit that Kerry was "not under fire" when he fished Lt. James Rassmann out of the water. He described Kerry's Bronze Star citation, which says that all units involved came under "small arms and automatic weapons fire," as "totally fabricated."

"I never heard a shot," Thurlow said in his affidavit, which was released by Swift Boats Veterans for Truth. The group claims the backing of more than 250 Vietnam veterans, including a majority of Kerry's fellow boat commanders.

A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire.

.......

Members of Kerry's crew have come to his defense, as has Rassmann, the Special Forces officer whom he fished from the river. Rassmann says he has vivid memories of being fired at from both banks after he fell into the river and as Kerry came to his rescue. The two had an emotional reunion on the eve of the Iowa Democratic caucuses in January, an event that some political analysts believe helped swing votes to Kerry at a crucial time.

The Bronze Star recommendations for both Kerry and Thurlow were signed by Lt. Cmdr. George M. Elliott, who received reports on the incident from his base in the Gulf of Thailand. Elliott is a supporter of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and has questioned Kerry's actions in Vietnam. But he has refused repeated requests for an interview after issuing conflicting statements to the Boston Globe about whether Kerry deserved a Silver Star. He was unreachable last night.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Aug18.html

[Tigermike 3,035]

This notion might hold up if the Swift Boat allegations weren't being debunked left and right even as we speak. For this to be a decisive issue the charges have to have some credibility and what we've seen lately is that credibility is in short supply with these Swift Boat guys.

But of course the credibility of John Kerry is beyond reproach. Is that what you are saying? Shine that is a nice picture and time line, but it is full of inaccuracies and distortions. Are they intentionally attempting to distort?

I will say this, all these guys were in a war zone and all were in different places and saw different things, even if they were within 30 feet of each other. Witnesses at crime scenes and accidents have differing recollections of what happened.

As far as Kerry and the dems screaming that President Bush should denounce the Swift Boat Vets. He has denounced ALL use of soft money in campaigns but the dems don't want to listen to or acknowledge that fact.

The Swift Boat Veterans issue a statement. I saw John O'Neill on TV last night make the following statement.

In response to Sen. Kerry's demand that President Bush make them (SBV) stop their ads, John E. O'Neill said they had a responsibility to tell the truth to the American public and that they would NOT stop their campaign and in fact had another advertisement in the works.

[Aubie7 0]

What do theirconnections matter? If they were the only ones around for Kerry's "battles' then they alone know what happened. It seems as if all but 2 or 3, are on the same page. Let's look at the few who are siding WITH Kerry and see why they are talking a different story than the mass majority.

[clantontiger 0]

What do theirconnections matter? If they were the only ones around for Kerry's "battles' then they alone know what happened. It seems as if all but 2 or 3, are on the same page. Let's look at the few who are siding WITH Kerry and see why they are talking a different story than the mass majority. 

You know in your heart that those 3-4 vets are telling the truth. The other 250-300 vets who have sworn statements are all lying. This is yet another vast right wing conspiracy. :nopity:

[Tigermike 3,035]

Two I believe are on the Kerry payroll. If I am wrong, please let me know. As if there were any chance no one would point that out.

[rexbo 104]

The hypocrisy of the Democrats is blowing my mind, blasting these guys for their book, and doing everything they can to censor it, but sucking up to Micheal Moore and his 'documentary' like it was the gospel truth from heaven.

McAuliffe and a number of other prominent Democrats attended a screening of Moore's new documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11, at the Uptown Theatre in Washington Wednesday night. McAuliffe called the film "very powerful, much more powerful than I thought it would be." When asked by National Review Online if he believed Moore's account of the war in Afghanistan, McAuliffe said, " I believe it after seeing that." The DNC chairman added that he had not heard of the idea before seeing the movie, but said he would "check it out myself and look at it, but there are a lot of interesting facts that he [Moore] brought out today that none of us knew about."

A short time later, McAuliffe was asked by CNN, "Do you think the movie was essentially fair and factually based?" "I do," McAuliffe said. "I think anyone who goes to see this movie will come out en masse and vote for John Kerry. Clearly the movie makes it clear that George Bush is not fit to be president of this country."

Democrats and the Fahrenheit 9/11 Trap

[Ranger12 46]

Bottom line is that the Kerry campaign is being nothing but hypocrites about all this. They never denounced MoveOn.org or Michael Moore like they are asking Bush to do for the Swift Boat Vets. You never saw Bush going after those liberal groups by threatening to sue or asking the publishers to not print books that are against him. Kerry forgets that he is the one that keeps bringing up his service and he has even contradicted himself several times about his service. Kerry needs to quit whining like baby and toughen up. He is running for President of the United States and if his skin is not tough enough to take the scrutiny, then he is not qualified for the job period! Trust me, the republicans would love for all this Vietnam service talk to stop and we start talking about the issues. Problem is, Kerry knows that Bush would slam him on the issues, so he would rather take a chance with the credibility of his Vietnam Service. Kerry made the mistake of making that the cornerstone of his campaign and now he is going to have to deal with that.

BTW CShine, a swift boat is not very big and has a very limited crew. However, Kerry still served along with more then just the men of his crew. He had to be billeted and pull duty with other sailors attached to the same unit. So, just because one did not serve on the exact same boat, does not mean they are not qualified to speak about John Kerry's service. I had quite a few friends and aquaintances that I served with that were not in any of my units, but I knew enough about them that I could give you an accurate description of the type of person they were and more then likely could tell you what the did in battle if I was around them at the time. If I was not around them, I could still probably give you a decent story because of what I heard from those that were around him during battle because not long after any actions is seen, the stories don't take long to be told. The first time something is told, that is usually the most accurate potrayal. Then as time goes by, the story sometimes changes and turns into something that it was not. John Kerry's own personal accounts from his diary back then now contradicts the story he is telling now. So, why do you question anybody that did not serve on Kerry's small boat when Kerry in fact tells a different story now? John Kerry is criticizing the vets, but he is yet to deny their versions of the story. When is he going to do that? Huh?

[DKW 86 7,426]

Lets see...

Where to begin...

Oh, lets take the graph.... http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820swift_graph.gif

Oh gee, there is a entity that has not had one bit of problem with facts lately... Jason Blair, total lack of fact checking, even Libs admit the NY Times is as biased as it gets. Lets see, do they exagerate here? Why yes, in almost every citation.

Second...

Simple numbers. 250+ and even his own diary vs John Kerry. Even his own Band of Brothers said he was lying about "Christmas in Cambodia." But then, so did his diary too.

Third...

Censorship. The Dems and some of the 527s supported by Soros, a foreign born national, are decrying the ability of 64 American Born Vietnam Vets supported by 250+ of their peers from talking and contributing to the discussion and debate of Election 2004. They are seeking to intimidate and smear the Vets, the publisher, and now the retailers too. Talk about freaking out...they must have hit a nerve (or a goldmine) here.

Rebut:

But the SVFT are funded by a Texas developer with ties to Bush Campaign. He gave a whopping $200k!!!!

George Soros has bragged about spending $12.8M as of a few weeks ago on the 527s that the Dems love so well.... as long as they are only for the Dem side of an issue.

Lets see...

250+ and his own diary vs. John Kerry

$200K vs. $12.8M

Oh yeah, we can see what the Dems and Kerry have to fear....THE TRUTH!

[Tigermike 3,035]

Lets see...

Where to begin...nytimes

Oh gee, there is a entity that has not had one bit of problem with facts lately...

They never seem to allow facts to get in the way of their agenda do they?

[DKW 86 7,426]

Members of Kerry's crew have come to his defense, as has Rassmann, the Special Forces officer whom he fished from the river. Rassmann says he has vivid memories of being fired at from both banks after he fell into the river and as Kerry came to his rescue. The two had an emotional reunion on the eve of the Iowa Democratic caucuses in January, an event that some political analysts believe helped swing votes to Kerry at a crucial time.

The Bronze Star recommendations for both Kerry and Thurlow were signed by Lt. Cmdr. George M. Elliott, who received reports on the incident from his base in the Gulf of Thailand. Elliott is a supporter of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and has questioned Kerry's actions in Vietnam. But he has refused repeated requests for an interview after issuing conflicting statements to the Boston Globe about whether Kerry deserved a Silver Star. He was unreachable last night.

Yes, Rassman has those memories of being fired upon SEARED, SEARED INTO HIS MIND....