Gus is a not a QB coach

[autig90 67]

The only thing StatTigers post is missing is a gif of a mic drop at the end

Lol so true.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

I am a tool

I must apologize.

I don't understand.

Gimme a hint.

Sharp or blunt?

[AUbritt 611]

I am a tool

I must apologize.

I don't understand.

Gimme a hint.

Sharp or blunt?

Free verse rules!

[Potatooooooes!! 1,375]

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR REVIVING THIS THREAD AND WHY ARE THE POSTS SO LONG?!!

[AUbritt 611]

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR REVIVING THIS THREAD AND WHY ARE THE POSTS SO LONG?!!

I blame Stat. Hahaha

[rockfordpi 91]

Yes, I was once a statistician with a Fortune 500 Company. Not that I'd refer to it with expertise; however the CEO usually posted my work monthly in the Board Room, due to the quality of the pretty pictures. And millions of dollars of purchases were at least partially influenced by my work, which was greatly appreciated and thoroughly scrutinized.

As for expert status - I'll reserve that for my small sport of choice Where I am recognized as one of the more excellent instructors (coaches). Not only for having won more NC's than AU and UA football teams combined, but for raising the performance of my students whatever their level. Having tweaked and worked with students whom were already NC's of their country, as well as Olympic Team members, and other hopefuls over the last thirty years. So I'm not new to seeing both good and bad coaching.

And you whined about misdirection? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do I know football ... just wee bit's and pieces...

You should have began and ended with the above ^^^^

And it doesn't require an expert to know that no matter how knowledgeable, that is to say no matter how good a person plays the game, they may be mediocre or horrible at coaching. . . teaching, and instruction.

It doesn't take an expert to recognize a player struggling but it certainly takes one to recognize why. You have no clue on how the QB's are prepared under Malzahn so stick with your Fortune 500 story.

And no matter how eloquently the numbers (and opinion) are presented, it'll not alter the truth that there's been both horrible - as well as - dignified use of QB's around here the past few years. And more of the good one's were not initially developed here. And for that you need no links (nor statistics) to see. Because the two best Cam and Nick came in ready made to play.

Perhaps Cam but not on Marshall. Mark Richt who is one of the best QB coaches in the country would not even give Marshall a shot at QB despite winning his last SEC Championship with an athletic QB in D.J. Shockley. Marshall threw 18 picks in one season as a JUCO-collegiate QB, so I don't see Marshall already being developed when he arrived at Auburn.

While the two biggest bust's have been guy's who Gus followed and hand picked from HS. Of the others Barrett and Clint were here long enough to be included as being under Gus's tutelage as QB coach (mere years).

Trotter was a Tuberville recruit and Clint Mosely was a Plan-B (2-star) QB. Neither QB was ever seriously considered to be the "future" when they were signed. You should have mentioned Kiehl Frazier of course he ended up being overwelmned at the this level but Malzahn did recruit him.

And both were at best neutral in terms of discussing their development (and to not deride their contributions). Next up was Jonathan Wallace, who set Freshman Records and subsequently never fully evolved as a QB, so he may have digressed.

What freshman record(s) did Wallace set? Johnathan Wallace is an outstanding person and extrememly inteligent, The fact he wants to pursue a coaching career and start under Malzahn speaks volumes. He wasn't a "priority" pick and was moved to WR after Malzahn returned as HFC. However, like Clint, he was a late Plan-B player never expected to become the starter at Auburn. Ask yourself why Tucker Tuberville wanted to walk on at Auburn. His father will tell you it is because he wants to coach one day and Tommy Tuberville belives he can learn a lot from being coached by Gus Malzahn. Speaking of other Auburn former coaches, ask Pat Sullivan why he hired Rhett Lashlee as his OC and QB coach. Sullivan speaks highly of the job Lashlee did in 2011 in the one year he installed a brandnew offfense and improved their unit from 17 PPG to 28 PPG.

Which leaves an injured Sean White who is still a big question and Chris Todd who was also another JUCo transfer (as well as red shirted freshman from Texas Tech).

Chris Todd himself spoke highly of his own development under Malzahn. This came from the fact he played in a similar offense in 2008 at Auburn under Tony Franklin (Air-raid variation) as he did at Texas Tech, yet had his best season playing under Malzahn the following year in a brand new offense.

You claimed there was not a large enough sample; however with the exception of the Arky State year (2012) Gus has been hands on with the QB's since 2009. So I feel free to question his development methods and more importantly his boy wonder who has yet to show any benefit in quarterback development . . . as in improving his students beyond their incoming state.

Question his development methods? Name three things Malzahn or Lashlee are doing wrong towards their poor QB development....

How many practices have you attended?

Can you break down one "passing tree" from just one play? Please include the primary and secondary routes?

How are the plays signaled onto the field?

Which plays does the QB have an automatic audible? (For this discussion, just name one)

Here is one that was actually reported in the news... what are the three points of emphasis Malzahn demands of his QB's?

Moving on....

It is a small sample and you should recognize this fact being such an expert in statistics as you boasted above. Alabama has signed 5 QB's of which 3 were highly touted during their last 5 classes yet all of them have struggled. They have relied upon a transfer from FSU and an athletic player who had been moved from position to position to actually start. Does this mean Lane Kiffen cannot develop quarterbacks? No it doesn't.

Finally, if you read my initial comments in this thread, I never stated Malzahn or Lashlee were good or bad at developing quarterbacks yet you had to toss in the, "nice try" line. Try what? Using common sense and some logic? I commented on the issue of the Malzahn only having ONE quarterback he has worked with for more than 2 seasons (Jeremy Johnson), so it is certainly way too early to gauge their abilities to develop quarterbacks. I hope you have watched enough football to realize quarterbacks continue to develop even through a long NFL career. Making the statement, Cam and Nick just showed up already prepared to play was ridiculous. You basically give Cam and Nick all the credit for their success. I hope you remember CAM was not slated to start after Tebow left. I hope you remember Al Borges did not think much of Cam coming out of HS. I hope you remember Cam had an offer from Auburn, MSU and Kansas State coming out of JUCO. It wasn't like everyone recognized he was going to be a super star. There were actual fans like yourself that claimed Barrett Trotter was the better passer during the Spring of 2010. To say no QB has developed under Malzahn is ludicrous on so many levels. I see where you are coming from though... if the QB's play well under Malzahn or Lashlee, they were already prepared and received no development from Auburn's coaches. If the QB's struggle or fail it is completely the fault of Malzahn and Lashlee.

final Score

Logic, Reason, Data 42

Emotion, Rhetoric, Sophistry Zip

Thank You Stat. Said everything I wanted to say and said and documented much better than I could have ever done (and saved me a lot of typing trying).

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

I am a tool

I must apologize.

I don't understand.

Gimme a hint.

Sharp or blunt?

Free verse rules!

1st of all, a seeming contradiction, but

Accused Again?

“No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job.... Poetry..remains one person talking to another....no poet can write a poem of amplitude unless he is the master of the prosaic.”

T.S. Eliott

[AUbritt 611]

I am a tool

I must apologize.

I don't understand.

Gimme a hint.

Sharp or blunt?

Free verse rules!

1st of all, a seeming contradiction, but

Accused Again?

“No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job.... Poetry..remains one person talking to another....no poet can write a poem of amplitude unless he is the master of the prosaic.”

T.S. Eliott

But

Your natural gift for free

Verse

Belies your trust

In a man who measured his life

In coffee spoons

Taunt me again

If you wish

But revenge is a dish

Best served --

And one that would leave me --

Cold

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

I am a tool

I must apologize.

I don't understand.

Gimme a hint.

Sharp or blunt?

Free verse rules!

1st of all, a seeming contradiction, but

Accused Again?

“No verse is free for the man who wants to do a good job.... Poetry..remains one person talking to another....no poet can write a poem of amplitude unless he is the master of the prosaic.”

T.S. Eliott

But

Your natural gift for free

Verse

Belies your trust

In a man who measured his life

In coffee spoons

Taunt me again

If you wish

But revenge is a dish

Best served --

And one that would leave me --

Cold

I admit defeat,

but I'll strive and Fall again.

Some structure is good?

[FHeal 4]

Talk about a whine ?

It's basically the only thing you've done since this thread's resurrection? And quite frankly one only has to re-read my responses to see the restrain, to your now twice over the top reaction. . . Is there something, a health thing or another, that we can help with .. . things good at home?

.

.

.

As for misdirect ?

This is exactly what you've been doing ever since entering this reopened thread. It was actually trending toward QB development until you graced us with a ga'normus dump about dual threat quarterbacks and how often a coach wins when having a good quarterback. Most of which had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That my friend is misdirection and why it was called it out. You quite simply (and perhaps conveniently) mis-assumed that your statistics were being questioned.

And you've slogged on ever since, using more numbers to merely bully (or ballyhoo) your non-situational position. Until it's now to the point your claiming high ground, from off a mountain of meaningless figures, which had nothing to do with QB development. They may be very good statistics, but they didn't apply to the discussion at hand. I never questioned their accuracy only their use. Real shame they were not pulled out on the proper day and in the right context. I even commend your opening remark. The one where you stated it's too small of a sample to fairly evaluate. Because it's just that, it's too small a sample to statically prove with great accuracy. However. that is not to say the matter is above discussion and/or speculation.

The essence of my second reply ?

It was to answer a rather hostile retort about having offered nothing of substance. Never-mind I was initially (merely) pointing out your obnoxious use of the term 'simply put'.... which was at best condescending... and certainly not simply put, as evidenced by the subsequent paragraphs of statistics (see: mountain of gibberish). Which as previously said the lion's share were non-germane to that re-opened potion of this thread You quite simply (thar it is again - the word simply) began over reacting to my pointing out your obvious misdirect and it's wayward shepherding of the discussion into another direction. (Hi, Jack!!!)

And

Which was an initial questioning made in what I considered to be a rather simple and non-threatening manner. If not my apology.

.

.

And now in this third reply - you're seeking a detailed nuts and bolts break down about football?

When all one has to be is observant of the most basic proposition. A premise which can quite simply be put: Did those quarterbacks since 2009 (excluding 2012 when Gus was not here) those who arrived at Auburn with other than high school instruction, did these guys eventually do better than those who received only post training here at Auburn?

It's not a trick question.

It does not require extensive football IQ. Nor does it require a computer to validate. It's does not require further quantifying in order to build a database. It only requires being awake long enough to see and being cognitive long enough to form an opinion, and if you don't remember who was actually on the field that particular day, with an internet search it's possible to garner the long forgotten. We all do it. Was it over thrown, off his front foot or back foot, was he not going through his progressions, across his body, or staring down the receiver? You don't need to know if he reacted wrong to package X-YandZ, in order to say that the results were not satisfactory. Whether it was good or not. Nor to know what his order or thoughts ideally should have been, in order to see if the quarter back has succeeded or not.

So, here's are the results I've seen. My opinion - which is really what you offered. And to answers to some of your requests. (everyone else - feel free ignore)

• *) Rhett and being hired by Pat Sullivan - Yes, his stock was high that year. Let's hope it wasn't his pinnacle year.
  
• 
  
• *1) Chris Todd - who was a good QB - and received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at 'two-other' institutions before arriving at Auburn 2008, and was put to good use upon his arrival. And served but one year under Gus as QB/OC in 2009. In rebuttal you claimed he spoke highly of Gus. Really dude - don't most of us talk good of our bosses to the press and when in public or when being quoted? At least those people with any bit of restraint or reason or decorum. Bet he talked good about his other coaches.
  
• 
  
• *2) Cam Newton- a very good QB - What needs to be said he received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at another institution before arriving at Auburn, and has gone on to well deserved collegiate stardom and NFL fame. He was one year, then done, and now onto glory. It wouldn't have mattered who coached him as long as he got to the field (as the quarterback). . . although most every professional talking head still remarks of his form (which is still improving).
  
• 
  
• * 3) Barrett Trotter - Yes, he was not what we really hoped for. Red shirted in 2008 (Gus got here 2009) and was injured 2009 . He started part of 2010 - he therefore received a minimum of 1 year of extensive training with current staff; although possibility two counting the RS year, before ultimately deciding to forgo his senior year. And just because these are opinions, to me at least, it appeared he did have some real talent. Like he was being coached up (and Gus was the QB coach back then).
  
• 
  
• *4) Clint Mosley - we cautiously hoped he'd of done better - Red shirted in 2009 and opted out of his senior 2013 year, so he received instruction under Gus in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Like you said plan-b. However he was required to be the starter, and his resume shouldn't merely be passed on because your highness say's so. He did make the cut, he did have three seasons under Gus/Rhett., and this is (remember) or was a thread about QB development. At the risk of jerking a tear, it obvious you want to weight your tantrum to include only the good quarterbacks; because as a statistician that's want you always do. It's not like you're lying, it's simply cherry picking the numbers to present a case in your favor. (need a tissue ?)
  
• 
  
• * 5) Kiehl Frazier - no he was not a very good QB, not at the college level (at least while at AU) - As a true freshman he saw action every game in 2011 with Gus as QB/OC , he started 2012 (year Gus's was not here). He therefore played for Gus his 1year and moved to another position. Hand picked by Gus and almost everyone else in the nation. Shame on you for faulting me, for choosing to not slay him by name. Because I respectfully included him by mere mention of there being two who have been busts.
  
• 
  
• * 6) Jonathan Wallace - And yes to answer your question, he did get off to really good start. In 2012 as a true freshman, he started the final four games. Setting the then AU freshman record for QB efficiency at 139.60- http://www.auburntig...ace_807558.html . He really doesn't sway this question either way, as this was the year Gus was not here and NM was recruited JWall's sophomore year.
  
• 
  
• * 7) Nick Marshall - a good QB - He also received extensive post high school quarterback instruction for one year at another institution other than Auburn. And yes, as you (so ironically) mentioned... he did have another non QB year. The one where he somehow failed to beat out this fellow named Aaron Murray (the SEC Career Passing Yards Leader and 4 year starter). Ya really think - that was a hard one for Richt to dwell on? As for the 18 int's... that speaks volumes about objectivity. You might as well had added he went 7–4. But while scoring 37 touchdowns (19 rushing, 18 passing) and passing for 3,142 yards. Or the part where he led all rushing with 1,095 yards. Dude, he was just not the quarterback, he appears to have been 'the-offense' and you fault him for 18 int's... Did he force it a time or two, too much.... obviously it didn't bother Gus. Wonder if his team counted those 18 int's as a fail? I believe more will say he's done good at both places, while at Auburn and while in JUCo. He'll now get a chance to do good in the pro's (just not as a quarterback).
  
• 
  
• 8) Jeremy Johnson - not so good, so far - arrived 2013 has been in the system three years. Hand picked by Gus, hoped for by many, and still has some football history left in him. The book's still being written, but so far the results won't make the highlight review of a QB coaches career.
  
• 
  
• 9) Sean White - jury out - Red shirted 2014. He has two years in the system and might excel - simply too early to tell. Rumor is he's gotten considerable one on one coaching, beside what he got in high school (the gist of this threads resurrection - before misdirection).
  

I've not counted: but I believe the tally of better QB's is a bit lopsided toward those who have been exposed to something else between high school and Auburn, as opposed to those QB's who have not. And it really doesn't matter how much you write, crunch the numbers, publish, try to be cute, or choose to portray me; because to put it very-simply, it will not change any of the above. This is certainly not rocket science. Nor does it require 12 years of having played the game for one see the results. A daughter or wive can certainly see (and has seen) who's performed well or not. Because it doesn't require that you actually know how to play the position. What we are discussing are the end results, it's a summation and not the how-to which in question. It's how good have the results been, no matter how good the whine you serve.

And BTW: No, I'm not calling for the head coach's head Never have. Merely suggesting there's good (t)reason to believe another QB coach could better serve the guy's we already have. It's simply called an opinion, it's what we do here and exactly what you offered (even if not as simple as advertised).

[hewlejd 6]

Talk about a whine ?

It's basically the only thing you've done since this thread's resurrection? And quite frankly one only has to re-read my responses to see the restrain, to your now twice over the top reaction. . . Is there something, a health thing or another, that we can help with .. . things good at home?

.

.

.

As for misdirect ?

This is exactly what you've been doing ever since entering this reopened thread. It was actually trending toward QB development until you graced us with a ga'normus dump about dual threat quarterbacks and how often a coach wins when having a good quarterback. Most of which had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That my friend is misdirection and why it was called it out. You quite simply (and perhaps conveniently) mis-assumed that your statistics were being questioned.

And you've slogged on ever since, using more numbers to merely bully (or ballyhoo) your non-situational position. Until it's now to the point your claiming high ground, from off a mountain of meaningless figures, which had nothing to do with QB development. They may be very good statistics, but they didn't apply to the discussion at hand. I never questioned their accuracy only their use. Real shame they were not pulled out on the proper day and in the right context. I even commend your opening remark. The one where you stated it's too small of a sample to fairly evaluate. Because it's just that, it's too small a sample to statically prove with great accuracy. However. that is not to say the matter is above discussion and/or speculation.

The essence of my second reply ?

It was to answer a rather hostile retort about having offered nothing of substance. Never-mind I was initially (merely) pointing out your obnoxious use of the term 'simply put'.... which was at best condescending... and certainly not simply put, as evidenced by the subsequent paragraphs of statistics (see: mountain of gibberish). Which as previously said the lion's share were non-germane to that re-opened potion of this thread You quite simply (thar it is again - the word simply) began over reacting to my pointing out your obvious misdirect and it's wayward shepherding of the discussion into another direction. (Hi, Jack!!!)

And

Which was an initial questioning made in what I considered to be a rather simple and non-threatening manner. If not my apology.

.

.

And now in this third reply - you're seeking a detailed nuts and bolts break down about football?

When all one has to be is observant of the most basic proposition. A premise which can quite simply be put: Did those quarterbacks since 2009 (excluding 2012 when Gus was not here) those who arrived at Auburn with other than high school instruction, did these guys eventually do better than those who received only post training here at Auburn?

It's not a trick question.

It does not require extensive football IQ. Nor does it require a computer to validate. It's does not require further quantifying in order to build a database. It only requires being awake long enough to see and being cognitive long enough to form an opinion, and if you don't remember who was actually on the field that particular day, with an internet search it's possible to garner the long forgotten. We all do it. Was it over thrown, off his front foot or back foot, was he not going through his progressions, across his body, or staring down the receiver? You don't need to know if he reacted wrong to package X-YandZ, in order to say that the results were not satisfactory. Whether it was good or not. Nor to know what his order or thoughts ideally should have been, in order to see if the quarter back has succeeded or not.

So, here's are the results I've seen. My opinion - which is really what you offered. And to answers to some of your requests. (everyone else - feel free ignore)

• *) Rhett and being hired by Pat Sullivan - Yes, his stock was high that year. Let's hope it wasn't his pinnacle year.
  
• 
  
• *1) Chris Todd - who was a good QB - and received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at 'two-other' institutions before arriving at Auburn 2008, and was put to good use upon his arrival. And served but one year under Gus as QB/OC in 2009. In rebuttal you claimed he spoke highly of Gus. Really dude - don't most of us talk good of our bosses to the press and when in public or when being quoted? At least those people with any bit of restraint or reason or decorum. Bet he talked good about his other coaches.
  
• 
  
• *2) Cam Newton- a very good QB - What needs to be said he received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at another institution before arriving at Auburn, and has gone on to well deserved collegiate stardom and NFL fame. He was one year, then done, and now onto glory. It wouldn't have mattered who coached him as long as he got to the field (as the quarterback). . . although most every professional talking head still remarks of his form (which is still improving).
  
• 
  
• * 3) Barrett Trotter - Yes, he was not what we really hoped for. Red shirted in 2008 (Gus got here 2009) and was injured 2009 . He started part of 2010 - he therefore received a minimum of 1 year of extensive training with current staff; although possibility two counting the RS year, before ultimately deciding to forgo his senior year. And just because these are opinions, to me at least, it appeared he did have some real talent. Like he was being coached up (and Gus was the QB coach back then).
  
• 
  
• *4) Clint Mosley - we cautiously hoped he'd of done better - Red shirted in 2009 and opted out of his senior 2013 year, so he received instruction under Gus in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Like you said plan-b. However he was required to be the starter, and his resume shouldn't merely be passed on because your highness say's so. He did make the cut, he did have three seasons under Gus/Rhett., and this is (remember) or was a thread about QB development. At the risk of jerking a tear, it obvious you want to weight your tantrum to include only the good quarterbacks; because as a statistician that's want you always do. It's not like you're lying, it's simply cherry picking the numbers to present a case in your favor. (need a tissue ?)
  
• 
  
• * 5) Kiehl Frazier - no he was not a very good QB, not at the college level (at least while at AU) - As a true freshman he saw action every game in 2011 with Gus as QB/OC , he started 2012 (year Gus's was not here). He therefore played for Gus his 1year and moved to another position. Hand picked by Gus and almost everyone else in the nation. Shame on you for faulting me, for choosing to not slay him by name. Because I respectfully included him by mere mention of there being two who have been busts.
  
• 
  
• * 6) Jonathan Wallace - And yes to answer your question, he did get off to really good start. In 2012 as a true freshman, he started the final four games. Setting the then AU freshman record for QB efficiency at 139.60- http://www.auburntig...ace_807558.html . He really doesn't sway this question either way, as this was the year Gus was not here and NM was recruited JWall's sophomore year.
  
• 
  
• * 7) Nick Marshall - a good QB - He also received extensive post high school quarterback instruction for one year at another institution other than Auburn. And yes, as you (so ironically) mentioned... he did have another non QB year. The one where he somehow failed to beat out this fellow named Aaron Murray (the SEC Career Passing Yards Leader and 4 year starter). Ya really think - that was a hard one for Richt to dwell on? As for the 18 int's... that speaks volumes about objectivity. You might as well had added he went 7–4. But while scoring 37 touchdowns (19 rushing, 18 passing) and passing for 3,142 yards. Or the part where he led all rushing with 1,095 yards. Dude, he was just not the quarterback, he appears to have been 'the-offense' and you fault him for 18 int's... Did he force it a time or two, too much.... obviously it didn't bother Gus. Wonder if his team counted those 18 int's as a fail? I believe more will say he's done good at both places, while at Auburn and while in JUCo. He'll now get a chance to do good in the pro's (just not as a quarterback).
  
• 
  
• 8) Jeremy Johnson - not so good, so far - arrived 2013 has been in the system three years. Hand picked by Gus, hoped for by many, and still has some football history left in him. The book's still being written, but so far the results won't make the highlight review of a QB coaches career.
  
• 
  
• 9) Sean White - jury out - Red shirted 2014. He has two years in the system and might excel - simply too early to tell. Rumor is he's gotten considerable one on one coaching, beside what he got in high school (the gist of this threads resurrection - before misdirection).
  

I've not counted: but I believe the tally of better QB's is a bit lopsided toward those who have been exposed to something else between high school and Auburn, as opposed to those QB's who have not. And it really doesn't matter how much you write, crunch the numbers, publish, try to be cute, or choose to portray me; because to put it very-simply, it will not change any of the above. This is certainly not rocket science. Nor does it require 12 years of having played the game for one see the results. A daughter or wive can certainly see (and has seen) who's performed well or not. Because it doesn't require that you actually know how to play the position. What we are discussing are the end results, it's a summation and not the how-to which in question. It's how good have the results been, no matter how good the whine you serve.

And BTW: No, I'm not calling for the head coach's head Never have. Merely suggesting there's good (t)reason to believe another QB coach could better serve the guy's we already have. It's simply called an opinion, it's what we do here and exactly what you offered (even if not as simple as advertised).

Hey, quick question, anyone know if there's an audio book version of this post? Thanks in advance!

[Scottie 124]

Hey, quick question, anyone know if there's an audio book version of this post? Thanks in advance!

Got you covered. Everyone please excuse the cliff note version. Most of the quarterbacks that have done well at Auburn have been very athletically gifted and received extensive training outside the Auburn system, and their success should not solely attributed to the Auburn coaching staff. On the other hand, those quarterbacks that have struggled have been groomed in the system. That is not to say that the coaches are at fault either.

Just an added note not to add fuel to the fire. Coming out of college, it was thought that Cam's throwing mechanics were weak by many professionals (long release times, wind up like a baseball throw, foot mechanics, etc).

[hewlejd 6]

Hey, quick question, anyone know if there's an audio book version of this post? Thanks in advance!

Got you covered. Everyone please excuse the cliff note version. Most of the quarterbacks that have done well at Auburn have been very athletically gifted and received extensive training outside the Auburn system, and their success should not solely attributed to the Auburn coaching staff. On the other hand, those quarterbacks that have struggled have been groomed in the system. That is not to say that the coaches are at fault either.

Just an added note not to add fuel to the fire. Coming out of college, it was thought that Cam's throwing mechanics were weak by many professionals (long release times, wind up like a baseball throw, foot mechanics, etc).

Good looking out, bro! Much obliged.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

Talk about a whine ?

It's basically the only thing you've done since this thread's resurrection? And quite frankly one only has to re-read my responses to see the restrain, to your now twice over the top reaction. . . Is there something, a health thing or another, that we can help with .. . things good at home?

.

.

.

As for misdirect ?

This is exactly what you've been doing ever since entering this reopened thread. It was actually trending toward QB development until you graced us with a ga'normus dump about dual threat quarterbacks and how often a coach wins when having a good quarterback. Most of which had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That my friend is misdirection and why it was called it out. You quite simply (and perhaps conveniently) mis-assumed that your statistics were being questioned.

And you've slogged on ever since, using more numbers to merely bully (or ballyhoo) your non-situational position. Until it's now to the point your claiming high ground, from off a mountain of meaningless figures, which had nothing to do with QB development. They may be very good statistics, but they didn't apply to the discussion at hand. I never questioned their accuracy only their use. Real shame they were not pulled out on the proper day and in the right context. I even commend your opening remark. The one where you stated it's too small of a sample to fairly evaluate. Because it's just that, it's too small a sample to statically prove with great accuracy. However. that is not to say the matter is above discussion and/or speculation.

The essence of my second reply ?

It was to answer a rather hostile retort about having offered nothing of substance. Never-mind I was initially (merely) pointing out your obnoxious use of the term 'simply put'.... which was at best condescending... and certainly not simply put, as evidenced by the subsequent paragraphs of statistics (see: mountain of gibberish). Which as previously said the lion's share were non-germane to that re-opened potion of this thread You quite simply (thar it is again - the word simply) began over reacting to my pointing out your obvious misdirect and it's wayward shepherding of the discussion into another direction. (Hi, Jack!!!)

And

Which was an initial questioning made in what I considered to be a rather simple and non-threatening manner. If not my apology.

.

.

And now in this third reply - you're seeking a detailed nuts and bolts break down about football?

When all one has to be is observant of the most basic proposition. A premise which can quite simply be put: Did those quarterbacks since 2009 (excluding 2012 when Gus was not here) those who arrived at Auburn with other than high school instruction, did these guys eventually do better than those who received only post training here at Auburn?

It's not a trick question.

It does not require extensive football IQ. Nor does it require a computer to validate. It's does not require further quantifying in order to build a database. It only requires being awake long enough to see and being cognitive long enough to form an opinion, and if you don't remember who was actually on the field that particular day, with an internet search it's possible to garner the long forgotten. We all do it. Was it over thrown, off his front foot or back foot, was he not going through his progressions, across his body, or staring down the receiver? You don't need to know if he reacted wrong to package X-YandZ, in order to say that the results were not satisfactory. Whether it was good or not. Nor to know what his order or thoughts ideally should have been, in order to see if the quarter back has succeeded or not.

So, here's are the results I've seen. My opinion - which is really what you offered. And to answers to some of your requests. (everyone else - feel free ignore)

• *) Rhett and being hired by Pat Sullivan - Yes, his stock was high that year. Let's hope it wasn't his pinnacle year.
  
• 
  
• *1) Chris Todd - who was a good QB - and received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at 'two-other' institutions before arriving at Auburn 2008, and was put to good use upon his arrival. And served but one year under Gus as QB/OC in 2009. In rebuttal you claimed he spoke highly of Gus. Really dude - don't most of us talk good of our bosses to the press and when in public or when being quoted? At least those people with any bit of restraint or reason or decorum. Bet he talked good about his other coaches.
  
• 
  
• *2) Cam Newton- a very good QB - What needs to be said he received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at another institution before arriving at Auburn, and has gone on to well deserved collegiate stardom and NFL fame. He was one year, then done, and now onto glory. It wouldn't have mattered who coached him as long as he got to the field (as the quarterback). . . although most every professional talking head still remarks of his form (which is still improving).
  
• 
  
• * 3) Barrett Trotter - Yes, he was not what we really hoped for. Red shirted in 2008 (Gus got here 2009) and was injured 2009 . He started part of 2010 - he therefore received a minimum of 1 year of extensive training with current staff; although possibility two counting the RS year, before ultimately deciding to forgo his senior year. And just because these are opinions, to me at least, it appeared he did have some real talent. Like he was being coached up (and Gus was the QB coach back then).
  
• 
  
• *4) Clint Mosley - we cautiously hoped he'd of done better - Red shirted in 2009 and opted out of his senior 2013 year, so he received instruction under Gus in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Like you said plan-b. However he was required to be the starter, and his resume shouldn't merely be passed on because your highness say's so. He did make the cut, he did have three seasons under Gus/Rhett., and this is (remember) or was a thread about QB development. At the risk of jerking a tear, it obvious you want to weight your tantrum to include only the good quarterbacks; because as a statistician that's want you always do. It's not like you're lying, it's simply cherry picking the numbers to present a case in your favor. (need a tissue ?)
  
• 
  
• * 5) Kiehl Frazier - no he was not a very good QB, not at the college level (at least while at AU) - As a true freshman he saw action every game in 2011 with Gus as QB/OC , he started 2012 (year Gus's was not here). He therefore played for Gus his 1year and moved to another position. Hand picked by Gus and almost everyone else in the nation. Shame on you for faulting me, for choosing to not slay him by name. Because I respectfully included him by mere mention of there being two who have been busts.
  
• 
  
• * 6) Jonathan Wallace - And yes to answer your question, he did get off to really good start. In 2012 as a true freshman, he started the final four games. Setting the then AU freshman record for QB efficiency at 139.60- http://www.auburntig...ace_807558.html . He really doesn't sway this question either way, as this was the year Gus was not here and NM was recruited JWall's sophomore year.
  
• 
  
• * 7) Nick Marshall - a good QB - He also received extensive post high school quarterback instruction for one year at another institution other than Auburn. And yes, as you (so ironically) mentioned... he did have another non QB year. The one where he somehow failed to beat out this fellow named Aaron Murray (the SEC Career Passing Yards Leader and 4 year starter). Ya really think - that was a hard one for Richt to dwell on? As for the 18 int's... that speaks volumes about objectivity. You might as well had added he went 7–4. But while scoring 37 touchdowns (19 rushing, 18 passing) and passing for 3,142 yards. Or the part where he led all rushing with 1,095 yards. Dude, he was just not the quarterback, he appears to have been 'the-offense' and you fault him for 18 int's... Did he force it a time or two, too much.... obviously it didn't bother Gus. Wonder if his team counted those 18 int's as a fail? I believe more will say he's done good at both places, while at Auburn and while in JUCo. He'll now get a chance to do good in the pro's (just not as a quarterback).
  
• 
  
• 8) Jeremy Johnson - not so good, so far - arrived 2013 has been in the system three years. Hand picked by Gus, hoped for by many, and still has some football history left in him. The book's still being written, but so far the results won't make the highlight review of a QB coaches career.
  
• 
  
• 9) Sean White - jury out - Red shirted 2014. He has two years in the system and might excel - simply too early to tell. Rumor is he's gotten considerable one on one coaching, beside what he got in high school (the gist of this threads resurrection - before misdirection).
  

I've not counted: but I believe the tally of better QB's is a bit lopsided toward those who have been exposed to something else between high school and Auburn, as opposed to those QB's who have not. And it really doesn't matter how much you write, crunch the numbers, publish, try to be cute, or choose to portray me; because to put it very-simply, it will not change any of the above. This is certainly not rocket science. Nor does it require 12 years of having played the game for one see the results. A daughter or wive can certainly see (and has seen) who's performed well or not. Because it doesn't require that you actually know how to play the position. What we are discussing are the end results, it's a summation and not the how-to which in question. It's how good have the results been, no matter how good the whine you serve.

And BTW: No, I'm not calling for the head coach's head Never have. Merely suggesting there's good (t)reason to believe another QB coach could better serve the guy's we already have. It's simply called an opinion, it's what we do here and exactly what you offered (even if not as simple as advertised).

Hey, quick question, anyone know if there's an audio book version of this post? Thanks in advance!

Typically they only do Audio books for passages people find appealing and/or popular.

[BigWhiskey91 632]

Talk about a whine ?

It's basically the only thing you've done since this thread's resurrection? And quite frankly one only has to re-read my responses to see the restrain, to your now twice over the top reaction. . . Is there something, a health thing or another, that we can help with .. . things good at home?

From Fortune 500 to at home pharmaceutical specialist. Fheal can supply your daily dose of speculation and arm chair criticism in one simple post! Need a post derailed? ONLY ONE PM AWAY!

Ps: I am a Marketing Specialist at a current Fortune 500 Company. For quotes or estimates, please PM.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Bump ( I haven't been on this thread since November 15)

Who gets credit for Cam Newton's development if Gus isn't a QB coach? Albeit, the thread may be implying that Gus developed Cam( hands off Urban) and Marshall, but he forgot how to coach QB's up since then. But I doubt that implication would be right.

[Potatooooooes!! 1,375]

Sweet teenage mother of Mercy. The posts keep getting longer and longer

[drsteve87 91]

So to those of you in the know. Do you think CDC's coaching JF III is maybe a test? Maybe CGM is frustrated with the lack of potency of the offense, specifically the lack of performance by the QB. If the QB performed at a higher level, we could've been in contention for the SEC last year. Almost like a coaching competition, he's looking at how CDC develops QB's compared to CRL. Malzahn appears to be extremely loyal to his assistants, but is willing to make a change when the choice is obvious (see Ellis Johnson).

[ToomersStreet 795]

Sweet teenage mother of Mercy. The posts keep getting longer and longer

I know. You would think we have been inconstant at developing QB's since 2009.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

So to those of you in the know. Do you think CDC's coaching JF III is maybe a test? Maybe CGM is frustrated with the lack of potency of the offense, specifically the lack of performance by the QB. If the QB performed at a higher level, we could've been in contention for the SEC last year. Almost like a coaching competition, he's looking at how CDC develops QB's compared to CRL. Malzahn appears to be extremely loyal to his assistants, but is willing to make a change when the choice is obvious (see Ellis Johnson).

Personally, I'm confused by that whole thing since, per NCAA rules, Craig can't be coaching anyone, currently, so no one should be coaching Franklin until Spring practice.

[Charhair 345]

Pat Dooley (a writer for the Gainesville Sun who covers UF football) was just on finebaum

Paul brought up Cam being a Florida recruit and playing for Florida in a way that was like "auburn didn't really do anything for Cam".

But Dooley told Paul that Cam was not a good QB when he came to UF. John Brantley was Urban's guess as to who would take over for Tebow (over Cam) due to Cam not being too much of a QB.

Whether Cam was more coaches up at auburn or blinn, I don't know, but he did seem to progress game by game at auburn.

[DAG 33,980]

Talk about a whine ?

It's basically the only thing you've done since this thread's resurrection? And quite frankly one only has to re-read my responses to see the restrain, to your now twice over the top reaction. . . Is there something, a health thing or another, that we can help with .. . things good at home?

.

.

.

As for misdirect ?

This is exactly what you've been doing ever since entering this reopened thread. It was actually trending toward QB development until you graced us with a ga'normus dump about dual threat quarterbacks and how often a coach wins when having a good quarterback. Most of which had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That my friend is misdirection and why it was called it out. You quite simply (and perhaps conveniently) mis-assumed that your statistics were being questioned.

And you've slogged on ever since, using more numbers to merely bully (or ballyhoo) your non-situational position. Until it's now to the point your claiming high ground, from off a mountain of meaningless figures, which had nothing to do with QB development. They may be very good statistics, but they didn't apply to the discussion at hand. I never questioned their accuracy only their use. Real shame they were not pulled out on the proper day and in the right context. I even commend your opening remark. The one where you stated it's too small of a sample to fairly evaluate. Because it's just that, it's too small a sample to statically prove with great accuracy. However. that is not to say the matter is above discussion and/or speculation.

The essence of my second reply ?

It was to answer a rather hostile retort about having offered nothing of substance. Never-mind I was initially (merely) pointing out your obnoxious use of the term 'simply put'.... which was at best condescending... and certainly not simply put, as evidenced by the subsequent paragraphs of statistics (see: mountain of gibberish). Which as previously said the lion's share were non-germane to that re-opened potion of this thread You quite simply (thar it is again - the word simply) began over reacting to my pointing out your obvious misdirect and it's wayward shepherding of the discussion into another direction. (Hi, Jack!!!)

And

Which was an initial questioning made in what I considered to be a rather simple and non-threatening manner. If not my apology.

.

.

And now in this third reply - you're seeking a detailed nuts and bolts break down about football?

When all one has to be is observant of the most basic proposition. A premise which can quite simply be put: Did those quarterbacks since 2009 (excluding 2012 when Gus was not here) those who arrived at Auburn with other than high school instruction, did these guys eventually do better than those who received only post training here at Auburn?

It's not a trick question.

It does not require extensive football IQ. Nor does it require a computer to validate. It's does not require further quantifying in order to build a database. It only requires being awake long enough to see and being cognitive long enough to form an opinion, and if you don't remember who was actually on the field that particular day, with an internet search it's possible to garner the long forgotten. We all do it. Was it over thrown, off his front foot or back foot, was he not going through his progressions, across his body, or staring down the receiver? You don't need to know if he reacted wrong to package X-YandZ, in order to say that the results were not satisfactory. Whether it was good or not. Nor to know what his order or thoughts ideally should have been, in order to see if the quarter back has succeeded or not.

So, here's are the results I've seen. My opinion - which is really what you offered. And to answers to some of your requests. (everyone else - feel free ignore)

• *) Rhett and being hired by Pat Sullivan - Yes, his stock was high that year. Let's hope it wasn't his pinnacle year.
  
• 
  
• *1) Chris Todd - who was a good QB - and received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at 'two-other' institutions before arriving at Auburn 2008, and was put to good use upon his arrival. And served but one year under Gus as QB/OC in 2009. In rebuttal you claimed he spoke highly of Gus. Really dude - don't most of us talk good of our bosses to the press and when in public or when being quoted? At least those people with any bit of restraint or reason or decorum. Bet he talked good about his other coaches.
  
• 
  
• *2) Cam Newton- a very good QB - What needs to be said he received extensive post high school quarterback instruction at another institution before arriving at Auburn, and has gone on to well deserved collegiate stardom and NFL fame. He was one year, then done, and now onto glory. It wouldn't have mattered who coached him as long as he got to the field (as the quarterback). . . although most every professional talking head still remarks of his form (which is still improving).
  
• 
  
• * 3) Barrett Trotter - Yes, he was not what we really hoped for. Red shirted in 2008 (Gus got here 2009) and was injured 2009 . He started part of 2010 - he therefore received a minimum of 1 year of extensive training with current staff; although possibility two counting the RS year, before ultimately deciding to forgo his senior year. And just because these are opinions, to me at least, it appeared he did have some real talent. Like he was being coached up (and Gus was the QB coach back then).
  
• 
  
• *4) Clint Mosley - we cautiously hoped he'd of done better - Red shirted in 2009 and opted out of his senior 2013 year, so he received instruction under Gus in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Like you said plan-b. However he was required to be the starter, and his resume shouldn't merely be passed on because your highness say's so. He did make the cut, he did have three seasons under Gus/Rhett., and this is (remember) or was a thread about QB development. At the risk of jerking a tear, it obvious you want to weight your tantrum to include only the good quarterbacks; because as a statistician that's want you always do. It's not like you're lying, it's simply cherry picking the numbers to present a case in your favor. (need a tissue ?)
  
• 
  
• * 5) Kiehl Frazier - no he was not a very good QB, not at the college level (at least while at AU) - As a true freshman he saw action every game in 2011 with Gus as QB/OC , he started 2012 (year Gus's was not here). He therefore played for Gus his 1year and moved to another position. Hand picked by Gus and almost everyone else in the nation. Shame on you for faulting me, for choosing to not slay him by name. Because I respectfully included him by mere mention of there being two who have been busts.
  
• 
  
• * 6) Jonathan Wallace - And yes to answer your question, he did get off to really good start. In 2012 as a true freshman, he started the final four games. Setting the then AU freshman record for QB efficiency at 139.60- http://www.auburntig...ace_807558.html . He really doesn't sway this question either way, as this was the year Gus was not here and NM was recruited JWall's sophomore year.
  
• 
  
• * 7) Nick Marshall - a good QB - He also received extensive post high school quarterback instruction for one year at another institution other than Auburn. And yes, as you (so ironically) mentioned... he did have another non QB year. The one where he somehow failed to beat out this fellow named Aaron Murray (the SEC Career Passing Yards Leader and 4 year starter). Ya really think - that was a hard one for Richt to dwell on? As for the 18 int's... that speaks volumes about objectivity. You might as well had added he went 7–4. But while scoring 37 touchdowns (19 rushing, 18 passing) and passing for 3,142 yards. Or the part where he led all rushing with 1,095 yards. Dude, he was just not the quarterback, he appears to have been 'the-offense' and you fault him for 18 int's... Did he force it a time or two, too much.... obviously it didn't bother Gus. Wonder if his team counted those 18 int's as a fail? I believe more will say he's done good at both places, while at Auburn and while in JUCo. He'll now get a chance to do good in the pro's (just not as a quarterback).
  
• 
  
• 8) Jeremy Johnson - not so good, so far - arrived 2013 has been in the system three years. Hand picked by Gus, hoped for by many, and still has some football history left in him. The book's still being written, but so far the results won't make the highlight review of a QB coaches career.
  
• 
  
• 9) Sean White - jury out - Red shirted 2014. He has two years in the system and might excel - simply too early to tell. Rumor is he's gotten considerable one on one coaching, beside what he got in high school (the gist of this threads resurrection - before misdirection).
  

I've not counted: but I believe the tally of better QB's is a bit lopsided toward those who have been exposed to something else between high school and Auburn, as opposed to those QB's who have not. And it really doesn't matter how much you write, crunch the numbers, publish, try to be cute, or choose to portray me; because to put it very-simply, it will not change any of the above. This is certainly not rocket science. Nor does it require 12 years of having played the game for one see the results. A daughter or wive can certainly see (and has seen) who's performed well or not. Because it doesn't require that you actually know how to play the position. What we are discussing are the end results, it's a summation and not the how-to which in question. It's how good have the results been, no matter how good the whine you serve.

And BTW: No, I'm not calling for the head coach's head Never have. Merely suggesting there's good (t)reason to believe another QB coach could better serve the guy's we already have. It's simply called an opinion, it's what we do here and exactly what you offered (even if not as simple as advertised).

This is a dissertation...wow

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

What ever the OP is smoking I surely would like some. No one with any logic can look at Cam's film from JUCO and even dare say he was as good as he was by the end of 2010. You cannot even look at his film through the first 3 games of 2010 and see that Cam did not greatly improve throughout the year. Someone made Cam a better QB during 2010. That my friend cannot be denied by any intelligent person. WDE

[rockfordpi 91]

Yes, I was once a statistician with a Fortune 500 Company. Not that I'd refer to it with expertise; however the CEO usually posted my work monthly in the Board Room, due to the quality of the pretty pictures. And millions of dollars of purchases were at least partially influenced by my work, which was greatly appreciated and thoroughly scrutinized.

As for expert status - I'll reserve that for my small sport of choice Where I am recognized as one of the more excellent instructors (coaches). Not only for having won more NC's than AU and UA football teams combined, but for raising the performance of my students whatever their level. Having tweaked and worked with students whom were already NC's of their country, as well as Olympic Team members, and other hopefuls over the last thirty years. So I'm not new to seeing both good and bad coaching.

And you whined about misdirection? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do I know football ... just wee bit's and pieces...

You should have began and ended with the above ^^^^

And it doesn't require an expert to know that no matter how knowledgeable, that is to say no matter how good a person plays the game, they may be mediocre or horrible at coaching. . . teaching, and instruction.

It doesn't take an expert to recognize a player struggling but it certainly takes one to recognize why. You have no clue on how the QB's are prepared under Malzahn so stick with your Fortune 500 story.

And no matter how eloquently the numbers (and opinion) are presented, it'll not alter the truth that there's been both horrible - as well as - dignified use of QB's around here the past few years. And more of the good one's were not initially developed here. And for that you need no links (nor statistics) to see. Because the two best Cam and Nick came in ready made to play.

Perhaps Cam but not on Marshall. Mark Richt who is one of the best QB coaches in the country would not even give Marshall a shot at QB despite winning his last SEC Championship with an athletic QB in D.J. Shockley. Marshall threw 18 picks in one season as a JUCO-collegiate QB, so I don't see Marshall already being developed when he arrived at Auburn.

While the two biggest bust's have been guy's who Gus followed and hand picked from HS. Of the others Barrett and Clint were here long enough to be included as being under Gus's tutelage as QB coach (mere years).

Trotter was a Tuberville recruit and Clint Mosely was a Plan-B (2-star) QB. Neither QB was ever seriously considered to be the "future" when they were signed. You should have mentioned Kiehl Frazier of course he ended up being overwelmned at the this level but Malzahn did recruit him.

And both were at best neutral in terms of discussing their development (and to not deride their contributions). Next up was Jonathan Wallace, who set Freshman Records and subsequently never fully evolved as a QB, so he may have digressed.

What freshman record(s) did Wallace set? Johnathan Wallace is an outstanding person and extrememly inteligent, The fact he wants to pursue a coaching career and start under Malzahn speaks volumes. He wasn't a "priority" pick and was moved to WR after Malzahn returned as HFC. However, like Clint, he was a late Plan-B player never expected to become the starter at Auburn. Ask yourself why Tucker Tuberville wanted to walk on at Auburn. His father will tell you it is because he wants to coach one day and Tommy Tuberville belives he can learn a lot from being coached by Gus Malzahn. Speaking of other Auburn former coaches, ask Pat Sullivan why he hired Rhett Lashlee as his OC and QB coach. Sullivan speaks highly of the job Lashlee did in 2011 in the one year he installed a brandnew offfense and improved their unit from 17 PPG to 28 PPG.

Which leaves an injured Sean White who is still a big question and Chris Todd who was also another JUCo transfer (as well as red shirted freshman from Texas Tech).

Chris Todd himself spoke highly of his own development under Malzahn. This came from the fact he played in a similar offense in 2008 at Auburn under Tony Franklin (Air-raid variation) as he did at Texas Tech, yet had his best season playing under Malzahn the following year in a brand new offense.

You claimed there was not a large enough sample; however with the exception of the Arky State year (2012) Gus has been hands on with the QB's since 2009. So I feel free to question his development methods and more importantly his boy wonder who has yet to show any benefit in quarterback development . . . as in improving his students beyond their incoming state.

Question his development methods? Name three things Malzahn or Lashlee are doing wrong towards their poor QB development....

How many practices have you attended?

Can you break down one "passing tree" from just one play? Please include the primary and secondary routes?

How are the plays signaled onto the field?

Which plays does the QB have an automatic audible? (For this discussion, just name one)

Here is one that was actually reported in the news... what are the three points of emphasis Malzahn demands of his QB's?

Moving on....

It is a small sample and you should recognize this fact being such an expert in statistics as you boasted above. Alabama has signed 5 QB's of which 3 were highly touted during their last 5 classes yet all of them have struggled. They have relied upon a transfer from FSU and an athletic player who had been moved from position to position to actually start. Does this mean Lane Kiffen cannot develop quarterbacks? No it doesn't.

Finally, if you read my initial comments in this thread, I never stated Malzahn or Lashlee were good or bad at developing quarterbacks yet you had to toss in the, "nice try" line. Try what? Using common sense and some logic? I commented on the issue of the Malzahn only having ONE quarterback he has worked with for more than 2 seasons (Jeremy Johnson), so it is certainly way too early to gauge their abilities to develop quarterbacks. I hope you have watched enough football to realize quarterbacks continue to develop even through a long NFL career. Making the statement, Cam and Nick just showed up already prepared to play was ridiculous. You basically give Cam and Nick all the credit for their success. I hope you remember CAM was not slated to start after Tebow left. I hope you remember Al Borges did not think much of Cam coming out of HS. I hope you remember Cam had an offer from Auburn, MSU and Kansas State coming out of JUCO. It wasn't like everyone recognized he was going to be a super star. There were actual fans like yourself that claimed Barrett Trotter was the better passer during the Spring of 2010. To say no QB has developed under Malzahn is ludicrous on so many levels. I see where you are coming from though... if the QB's play well under Malzahn or Lashlee, they were already prepared and received no development from Auburn's coaches. If the QB's struggle or fail it is completely the fault of Malzahn and Lashlee.

final Score

Logic, Reason, Data 42

Emotion, Rhetoric, Sophistry Zip

Thank You Stat. Said everything I wanted to say and said and documented much better than I could have ever done (and saved me a lot of typing trying).

Bump ( I haven't been on this thread since November 15)

Who gets credit for Cam Newton's development if Gus isn't a QB coach? Albeit, the thread may be implying that Gus developed Cam( hands off Urban) and Marshall, but he forgot how to coach QB's up since then. But I doubt that implication would be right.

The big mistake you are making is that you are trying to apply logic and reason to the situation, LOL. I agree with you. Stat said it best in his last sentence above.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Perhaps Gus is only a DT quarterback coach?