Gus is a not a QB coach

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

If Gus can't develop a QB, then turn it over to Craig. WTH is the problem with giving that duty to a coach already on staff that has experience?

100% agree.

As long as he has someone to cover wide receivers while Craig is busy with QBs.

At risk of sounding stupid,

When has Coach Craig ever been asked to cover a WR?

Cover as in cover the coaching of them... he's currently our wide receiver coach.

Aaah

I understand (he said simply)

[autigersj 122]

GREAT IDEAS GUYS!!! The coaches must be oblivious and we(fans on forums) know it all!!

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

If Gus can't develop a QB, then turn it over to Craig. WTH is the problem with giving that duty to a coach already on staff that has experience?

100% agree.

As long as he has someone to cover wide receivers while Craig is busy with QBs.

At risk of sounding stupid,

When has Coach Craig ever been asked to cover a WR?

Cover as in cover the coaching of them... he's currently our wide receiver coach.

Aaah

I understand (he said simply)

Mr. KC -

Followup.

Apologies for being testy (above). Re-emergence of this (originally tiresome) thread irked.

This followup will truly include a request for comments concerning my (obvious) stupidity re: things football staffing.

Coach Lashlee has (reportedly) been looking for an HC job. Coach Malzahn has (publicly) expressed considerable support for such endeavors.

In the meantime, we seem to have assembled expertise to largely cover most offensive positions?

T'would seem that Coach Hand, as a Running Game Coordinator (or ass't, or co-...OC) could also contribute to OL and RB recruiting and development.

Likewise, Coach Craig (as potentially a Passing Game Coordinator....) has had some success with both QBs and WRs.

Seems (at least to me) that such a staff could work, if well coordinated.

[StatTiger 3,188]

Rhett Lashlee played QB and in HS and college and has been coaching QB's for quite sometime. I'm not saying he is a good or great QB coach but to say HE IS NOT qualified, is ridiculous. As far as developing HS QB's... how many has Malzahn recruited and coached for at least 3 years at the collegiate level? ONE. Not saying Malzahn can develop QB's but the sample size his way too small to evaluate FAIRLY. This whole debate about whether or not Malzahn can win big with or without a DT-QB is silly. Saban has been defeated by pocket passers from 2008-2015 as well as DT-QB's. Does his defenses struggle with really good DT-QB's? Yes they do but so does everyone else. Having a DT-QB does give you an edge IF he can consistently make plays throwing the football too. It's simply not enough to just plug in a DT-QB and suddenly the offense takes off. He still has to be a quality and consistent performer in the passing game to beat Alabama or to win a championship. Auburn could not go undefeated and win a NC with Bo Jackson but did so with Michael Dyer. I guess one could say Auburn was better off with Dyer than Jackson. Of course this is sarcasm but it basically takes a "team" effort to win a championship. As great as Tebow was, they lost 4 games his Heisman year but won it the following year because UF fielded a better defense.

Simply put....

Malzahn in 10-years as a collegiate coach has won 90% (72-9) of his games when his pass-offense has a passer rating of 140 or better.

Chris Todd put up solid numbers and would have been better if not for an injury mid-season. Yes, his numbers were skewed to a degree but he certainly looked far more polished in 2009 than 2008.

Malzahn's second starter at Tulsa had very little experience but had a huge season as the starter for the first time under Malzahn.

Urban Meyer has won a MNC with a pocket passer and an athletic QB. Chris Leak had a pass rating of 144 in 2006 and UF had a top-10 defense. Great combination for success.

Yes Cam Newton was the QB when Auburn beat Alabama in 2010 but there were two huge defensive plays during that game that made it happen and Newton did far more damage offensively throwing the football than running it that day. Cam Newton also put up better numbers playing in Malzahn's offense against better talent than his one JUCO year. Heck, he lost a game at the JUCO level but not in 2010 at Auburn.

Yes Nick Marshall beat Alabama in 2013 but it also helped that the turds missing some key FG's that could have put that game away from the kick-6.

The following year Marshall had the game of his life against the turds as the offense rolled up over 600-yards and scored 44 points. It still wasn't enough to win because the defense gave up 55 points.

Marshall would have never seen the QB position had he remained at UGA as a DB. Once again, he put up better numbers his first year at Auburn than his JUCO season. He then went onto to improve his passing numbers the following year (2014). Does Malzahn and Lashlee receive no credit at all in Marshall's development?

From 1961-2015, Auburn is 148-15-0 when they have a pass rating of 140 or better.

From 2000-2015, SEC teams have won 86% of their games with a pass rating of 140 or better.

Auburn came very close to beating Alabama with Chris Todd in 2009.

From 2008-2015, Alabama is 7-9 in games when the opposing team had a pass rating of 140 or better.

Bottom line, you need a very good pass-offense to win any championship in the past 10 years.

The average national pass rating for the winner of the MNC from 2000-2015 is No. 13, with 9 being in the top-10.

The average national pass rating of the SEC Champion from 2000-2015 is No. 16 nationally.

I would imagine if he had a highly touted pocket passer to work with, the offense would be solid.

Saying Malzahn can't win big or a NC with a pocket passer is the same as saying Alabama can't win a NC with a DT-QB. Just because it hasn't occurred in 3 years doesn't mean it can't ever happen. Saban prefers to have a pocket passer and hires OC's that can run the style of offense he wants. They recruit for the their style of offense as well as their defense.

Gus simply needs to do the same thing.

By the way, I prefer a DT-QB simply because I like having a very lethal running game but I also know for a fact, the DT-QB needs to be a good passer too for Auburn to win a championship.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

If Gus can't develop a QB, then turn it over to Craig. WTH is the problem with giving that duty to a coach already on staff that has experience?

100% agree.

As long as he has someone to cover wide receivers while Craig is busy with QBs.

At risk of sounding stupid,

When has Coach Craig ever been asked to cover a WR?

Cover as in cover the coaching of them... he's currently our wide receiver coach.

Aaah

I understand (he said simply)

Mr. KC -

Followup.

Apologies for being testy (above). Re-emergence of this (originally tiresome) thread irked.

This followup will truly include a request for comments concerning my (obvious) stupidity re: things football staffing.

Coach Lashlee has (reportedly) been looking for an HC job. Coach Malzahn has (publicly) expressed considerable support for such endeavors.

In the meantime, we seem to have assembled expertise to largely cover most offensive positions?

T'would seem that Coach Hand, as a Running Game Coordinator (or ass't, or co-...OC) could also contribute to OL and RB recruiting and development.

Likewise, Coach Craig (as potentially a Passing Game Coordinator....) has had some success with both QBs and WRs.

Seems (at least to me) that such a staff could work, if well coordinated.

I could see your plan functioning on the field, but during practice and meetings, each group splits and does their own thing, so they each need a position coach.

In all honestly, we don't have a really good wide receivers coach on staff. Craig got that position because we wanted him and that was what was available. We also only have one member of our offensive staff that anyone wouldn't be upset to lose, but the odds of that member leaving, this year, are pretty low, so we are stuck. Craig, can't coach both QBs and receivers at the same time during practice, or in the meeting rooms, and he is far better a QB coach than a receiver coach. The problem is, he's still the most qualified on our staff to coach receivers, too. It makes you wish Gus would pull the trigger, let a certain coach go, and get the best darn receiver coach he can find.

Oh, and don't forget Horton... he doesn't need help with the running backs and we don't want him going anywhere.

[FHeal 4]

Simply put....

(nice try)

... but simply put: some people can coach or teach; while others are simply not that good at it.

It's not a matter of statics, or the scores they accrued, nor how good they can do something themselves. And It doesn't matter how long they try and certainly not how well they were instructed. In fact it's more of a gift that you're born and less about what you know.

BTW: For the record was this a RL or CGM post... I got lost in the misdirect?

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Malzahn's second starter at Tulsa had very little experience but had a huge season as the starter for the first time under Malzahn.

This is the one thing those on the Gus can't coach side usually leave out. I guess they can argue he was under a different staff for 2 years before he got any playing time, but I think he and Todd show that they CAN coach QBs, I just don't know that they are elite QB coaches and I think Craig has shown, with his time at FSU, that he's up there near the top. The problem is, no one on our staff has a ton of receiver coaching experience under their belts. We have 3 QB coaches of whatever level and no receiver coach.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

If Gus can't develop a QB, then turn it over to Craig. WTH is the problem with giving that duty to a coach already on staff that has experience?

100% agree.

As long as he has someone to cover wide receivers while Craig is busy with QBs.

At risk of sounding stupid,

When has Coach Craig ever been asked to cover a WR?

Cover as in cover the coaching of them... he's currently our wide receiver coach.

Aaah

I understand (he said simply)

Mr. KC -

Followup.

Apologies for being testy (above). Re-emergence of this (originally tiresome) thread irked.

This followup will truly include a request for comments concerning my (obvious) stupidity re: things football staffing.

Coach Lashlee has (reportedly) been looking for an HC job. Coach Malzahn has (publicly) expressed considerable support for such endeavors.

In the meantime, we seem to have assembled expertise to largely cover most offensive positions?

T'would seem that Coach Hand, as a Running Game Coordinator (or ass't, or co-...OC) could also contribute to OL and RB recruiting and development.

Likewise, Coach Craig (as potentially a Passing Game Coordinator....) has had some success with both QBs and WRs.

Seems (at least to me) that such a staff could work, if well coordinated.

I could see your plan functioning on the field, but during practice and meetings, each group splits and does their own thing, so they each need a position coach.

In all honestly, we don't have a really good wide receivers coach on staff. Craig got that position because we wanted him and that was what was available. We also only have one member of our offensive staff that anyone wouldn't be upset to lose, but the odds of that member leaving, this year, are pretty low, so we are stuck. Craig, can't coach both QBs and receivers at the same time during practice, or in the meeting rooms, and he is far better a QB coach than a receiver coach. The problem is, he's still the most qualified on our staff to coach receivers, too. It makes you wish Gus would pull the trigger, let a certain coach go, and get the best darn receiver coach he can find.

Oh, and don't forget Horton... he doesn't need help with the running backs and we don't want him going anywhere.

Aaaaah, so

We need either a new QB coach or a new WR coach, preferably WR, and we're one room short in the Inn.

How will Coach Craig's (per sources) duties with an incoming QB recruit affect that dynamic?

(and apologies to Coach Horton. I was focused elsewhere)

Many, many thanks. (Hopefully, I can be taught!)

[StatTiger 3,188]

Simply put....

(nice try)

... but simply put: some people can coach or teach; while others are simply not that good at it.

It's not a matter of statics, or the scores they accrued, nor how good they can do something themselves. And It doesn't matter how long they try and certainly not how well they were instructed. In fact it's more of a gift that you're born and less about what you know.

BTW: For the record was this a RL or CGM post... I got lost in the misdirect?

My bad... I got lost with all the substance you provided and did not realize I was dealing with an expert. I will stand aside and allow you to move onto your prescribed path.

[AUbritt 611]

Rhett Lashlee played QB and in HS and college and has been coaching QB's for quite sometime. I'm not saying he is a good or great QB coach but to say HE IS NOT qualified, is ridiculous. As far as developing HS QB's... how many has Malzahn recruited and coached for at least 3 years at the collegiate level? ONE. Not saying Malzahn can develop QB's but the sample size his way too small to evaluate FAIRLY. This whole debate about whether or not Malzahn can win big with or without a DT-QB is silly. Saban has been defeated by pocket passers from 2008-2015 as well as DT-QB's. Does his defenses struggle with really good DT-QB's? Yes they do but so does everyone else. Having a DT-QB does give you an edge IF he can consistently make plays throwing the football too. It's simply not enough to just plug in a DT-QB and suddenly the offense takes off. He still has to be a quality and consistent performer in the passing game to beat Alabama or to win a championship. Auburn could not go undefeated and win a NC with Bo Jackson but did so with Michael Dyer. I guess one could say Auburn was better off with Dyer than Jackson. Of course this is sarcasm but it basically takes a "team" effort to win a championship. As great as Tebow was, they lost 4 games his Heisman year but won it the following year because UF fielded a better defense.

Simply put....

Malzahn in 10-years as a collegiate coach has won 90% (72-9) of his games when his pass-offense has a passer rating of 140 or better.

Chris Todd put up solid numbers and would have been better if not for an injury mid-season. Yes, his numbers were skewed to a degree but he certainly looked far more polished in 2009 than 2008.

Malzahn's second starter at Tulsa had very little experience but had a huge season as the starter for the first time under Malzahn.

Urban Meyer has won a MNC with a pocket passer and an athletic QB. Chris Leak had a pass rating of 144 in 2006 and UF had a top-10 defense. Great combination for success.

Yes Cam Newton was the QB when Auburn beat Alabama in 2010 but there were two huge defensive plays during that game that made it happen and Newton did far more damage offensively throwing the football than running it that day. Cam Newton also put up better numbers playing in Malzahn's offense against better talent than his one JUCO year. Heck, he lost a game at the JUCO level but not in 2010 at Auburn.

Yes Nick Marshall beat Alabama in 2013 but it also helped that the turds missing some key FG's that could have put that game away from the kick-6.

The following year Marshall had the game of his life against the turds as the offense rolled up over 600-yards and scored 44 points. It still wasn't enough to win because the defense gave up 55 points.

Marshall would have never seen the QB position had he remained at UGA as a DB. Once again, he put up better numbers his first year at Auburn than his JUCO season. He then went onto to improve his passing numbers the following year (2014). Does Malzahn and Lashlee receive no credit at all in Marshall's development?

From 1961-2015, Auburn is 148-15-0 when they have a pass rating of 140 or better.

From 2000-2015, SEC teams have won 86% of their games with a pass rating of 140 or better.

Auburn came very close to beating Alabama with Chris Todd in 2009.

From 2008-2015, Alabama is 7-9 in games when the opposing team had a pass rating of 140 or better.

Bottom line, you need a very good pass-offense to win any championship in the past 10 years.

The average national pass rating for the winner of the MNC from 2000-2015 is No. 13, with 9 being in the top-10.

The average national pass rating of the SEC Champion from 2000-2015 is No. 16 nationally.

I would imagine if he had a highly touted pocket passer to work with, the offense would be solid.

Saying Malzahn can't win big or a NC with a pocket passer is the same as saying Alabama can't win a NC with a DT-QB. Just because it hasn't occurred in 3 years doesn't mean it can't ever happen. Saban prefers to have a pocket passer and hires OC's that can run the style of offense he wants. They recruit for the their style of offense as well as their defense.

Gus simply needs to do the same thing.

By the way, I prefer a DT-QB simply because I like having a very lethal running game but I also know for a fact, the DT-QB needs to be a good passer too for Auburn to win a championship.

YES!

[auburn4ever 1,266]

I've talked to many Auburn fans during the 2015 season, and we all believe that 2016 will be a make or break year asto Gus Malzahn's future as Auburn's head coach.

[gctiger 937]

Simply put....

(nice try)

... but simply put: some people can coach or teach; while others are simply not that good at it.

It's not a matter of statics, or the scores they accrued, nor how good they can do something themselves. And It doesn't matter how long they try and certainly not how well they were instructed. In fact it's more of a gift that you're born and less about what you know.

BTW: For the record was this a RL or CGM post... I got lost in the misdirect?

My bad... I got lost with all the substance you provided and did not realize I was dealing with an expert. I will stand aside and allow you to move onto your prescribed path.

Nice comeback. It's like they always say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink...

Please rest assured that the vast majority of us greatly appreciate your hard work!

[autig90 67]

Simply put....

(nice try)

... but simply put: some people can coach or teach; while others are simply not that good at it.

It's not a matter of statics, or the scores they accrued, nor how good they can do something themselves. And It doesn't matter how long they try and certainly not how well they were instructed. In fact it's more of a gift that you're born and less about what you know.

BTW: For the record was this a RL or CGM post... I got lost in the misdirect?

Misdirect? What an idiot. Heaven forbid that someone brings actual numbers and analysis into a discussion. Please carry on with random opinions with no data behind them.

[selias 2,398]

I've talked to many Auburn fans during the 2015 season, and we all believe that 2016 will be a make or break year asto Gus Malzahn's future as Auburn's head coach.

Thank you for that detailed statistical analysis.

[autig90 67]

I've talked to many Auburn fans during the 2015 season, and we all believe that 2016 will be a make or break year asto Gus Malzahn's future as Auburn's head coach.

Thank you for that detailed statistical analysis.

He's a broken record. Never anything substantive.

[selias 2,398]

I've talked to many Auburn fans during the 2015 season, and we all believe that 2016 will be a make or break year asto Gus Malzahn's future as Auburn's head coach.

Thank you for that detailed statistical analysis.

He's a broken record. Never anything substantive.

I know but I've had a few adult beverages and it was funny in my head.

[FHeal 4]

Simply put....

(nice try)

... but simply put: some people can coach or teach; while others are simply not that good at it.

It's not a matter of statics, or the scores they accrued, nor how good they can do something themselves. And It doesn't matter how long they try and certainly not how well they were instructed. In fact it's more of a gift that you're born and less about what you know.

BTW: For the record was this a RL or CGM post... I got lost in the misdirect?

My bad... I got lost with all the substance you provided and did not realize I was dealing with an expert. I will stand aside and allow you to move onto your prescribed path.

Yes, I was once a statistician with a Fortune 500 Company. Not that I'd refer to it with expertise; however the CEO usually posted my work monthly in the Board Room, due to the quality of the pretty pictures. And millions of dollars of purchases were at least partially influenced by my work, which was greatly appreciated and thoroughly scrutinized.

As for expert status - I'll reserve that for my small sport of choice Where I am recognized as one of the more excellent instructors (coaches). Not only for having won more NC's than AU and UA football teams combined, but for raising the performance of my students whatever their level. Having tweaked and worked with students whom were already NC's of their country, as well as Olympic Team members, and other hopefuls over the last thirty years. So I'm not new to seeing both good and bad coaching.

Do I know football ... just wee bit's and pieces... and never have I claimed much knowledge. In fact often playing straight-man to others with much more knowledge, in order or just to learn more. However what I do know is a snow job when done with statistics. And I am well aware when a post or discussion gets divided to dilute the message. And it doesn't require an expert to know that no matter how knowledgeable, that is to say no matter how good a person plays the game, they may be mediocre or horrible at coaching. . . teaching, and instruction.

And no matter how eloquently the numbers (and opinion) are presented, it'll not alter the truth that there's been both horrible - as well as - dignified use of QB's around here the past few years. And more of the good one's were not initially developed here. And for that you need no links (nor statistics) to see. Because the two best Cam and Nick came in ready made to play. While the two biggest bust's have been guy's who Gus followed and hand picked from HS. Of the others Barrett and Clint were here long enough to be included as being under Gus's tutelage as QB coach (mere years). And both were at best neutral in terms of discussing their development (and to not deride their contributions). Next up was Jonathan Wallace, who set Freshman Records and subsequently never fully evolved as a QB, so he may have digressed. Which leaves an injured Sean White who is still a big question and Chris Todd who was also another JUCo transfer (as well as red shirted freshman from Texas Tech). You claimed there was not a large enough sample; however with the exception of the Arky State year (2012) Gus has been hands on with the QB's since 2009. So I feel free to question his development methods and more importantly his boy wonder who has yet to show any benefit in quarterback development . . . as in improving his students beyond their incoming state.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

I said it on another thread and I'll repeatbit here. If I were currently a high ranked qb (either DT or pro), Gus would have a hard time selling me on his offense, especially if I wanted to play pro ball. Qb's in our system can't audible. They have to look at the sideline and be told when to snap the ball ( insert Gus pointing at the ground joke here). Also, how many QB's does he have in the NFL? How many qb's that now play DB does he have in the NFL? I think it's a dead heat. Just my thoughts.

And if I read these boards (which you do know recruits and players do... cause I've seen them bash some of you in the computer labs on campus) and I was a recruit. You would have a hard time getting me to come here cause I would really be unsure if the man I came to play for was still going to be here or the guy that replaced him. Coaching stability matters to recruits.

Hell Scarbinsky is even putting out the can Gus save his job article right before signing day. To get all those clicks from you guys and make recruits go hmmm, choose elsewhere.

[FoundationEagle 637]

:deadhorse:

[StatTiger 3,188]

Yes, I was once a statistician with a Fortune 500 Company. Not that I'd refer to it with expertise; however the CEO usually posted my work monthly in the Board Room, due to the quality of the pretty pictures. And millions of dollars of purchases were at least partially influenced by my work, which was greatly appreciated and thoroughly scrutinized.

As for expert status - I'll reserve that for my small sport of choice Where I am recognized as one of the more excellent instructors (coaches). Not only for having won more NC's than AU and UA football teams combined, but for raising the performance of my students whatever their level. Having tweaked and worked with students whom were already NC's of their country, as well as Olympic Team members, and other hopefuls over the last thirty years. So I'm not new to seeing both good and bad coaching.

And you whined about misdirection? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do I know football ... just wee bit's and pieces...

You should have began and ended with the above ^^^^

And it doesn't require an expert to know that no matter how knowledgeable, that is to say no matter how good a person plays the game, they may be mediocre or horrible at coaching. . . teaching, and instruction.

It doesn't take an expert to recognize a player struggling but it certainly takes one to recognize why. You have no clue on how the QB's are prepared under Malzahn so stick with your Fortune 500 story.

And no matter how eloquently the numbers (and opinion) are presented, it'll not alter the truth that there's been both horrible - as well as - dignified use of QB's around here the past few years. And more of the good one's were not initially developed here. And for that you need no links (nor statistics) to see. Because the two best Cam and Nick came in ready made to play.

Perhaps Cam but not on Marshall. Mark Richt who is one of the best QB coaches in the country would not even give Marshall a shot at QB despite winning his last SEC Championship with an athletic QB in D.J. Shockley. Marshall threw 18 picks in one season as a JUCO-collegiate QB, so I don't see Marshall already being developed when he arrived at Auburn.

While the two biggest bust's have been guy's who Gus followed and hand picked from HS. Of the others Barrett and Clint were here long enough to be included as being under Gus's tutelage as QB coach (mere years).

Trotter was a Tuberville recruit and Clint Mosely was a Plan-B (2-star) QB. Neither QB was ever seriously considered to be the "future" when they were signed. You should have mentioned Kiehl Frazier of course he ended up being overwelmned at the this level but Malzahn did recruit him.

And both were at best neutral in terms of discussing their development (and to not deride their contributions). Next up was Jonathan Wallace, who set Freshman Records and subsequently never fully evolved as a QB, so he may have digressed.

What freshman record(s) did Wallace set? Johnathan Wallace is an outstanding person and extrememly inteligent, The fact he wants to pursue a coaching career and start under Malzahn speaks volumes. He wasn't a "priority" pick and was moved to WR after Malzahn returned as HFC. However, like Clint, he was a late Plan-B player never expected to become the starter at Auburn. Ask yourself why Tucker Tuberville wanted to walk on at Auburn. His father will tell you it is because he wants to coach one day and Tommy Tuberville belives he can learn a lot from being coached by Gus Malzahn. Speaking of other Auburn former coaches, ask Pat Sullivan why he hired Rhett Lashlee as his OC and QB coach. Sullivan speaks highly of the job Lashlee did in 2011 in the one year he installed a brandnew offfense and improved their unit from 17 PPG to 28 PPG.

Which leaves an injured Sean White who is still a big question and Chris Todd who was also another JUCo transfer (as well as red shirted freshman from Texas Tech).

Chris Todd himself spoke highly of his own development under Malzahn. This came from the fact he played in a similar offense in 2008 at Auburn under Tony Franklin (Air-raid variation) as he did at Texas Tech, yet had his best season playing under Malzahn the following year in a brand new offense.

You claimed there was not a large enough sample; however with the exception of the Arky State year (2012) Gus has been hands on with the QB's since 2009. So I feel free to question his development methods and more importantly his boy wonder who has yet to show any benefit in quarterback development . . . as in improving his students beyond their incoming state.

Question his development methods? Name three things Malzahn or Lashlee are doing wrong towards their poor QB development....

How many practices have you attended?

Can you break down one "passing tree" from just one play? Please include the primary and secondary routes?

How are the plays signaled onto the field?

Which plays does the QB have an automatic audible? (For this discussion, just name one)

Here is one that was actually reported in the news... what are the three points of emphasis Malzahn demands of his QB's?

Moving on....

It is a small sample and you should recognize this fact being such an expert in statistics as you boasted above. Alabama has signed 5 QB's of which 3 were highly touted during their last 5 classes yet all of them have struggled. They have relied upon a transfer from FSU and an athletic player who had been moved from position to position to actually start. Does this mean Lane Kiffen cannot develop quarterbacks? No it doesn't.

Finally, if you read my initial comments in this thread, I never stated Malzahn or Lashlee were good or bad at developing quarterbacks yet you had to toss in the, "nice try" line. Try what? Using common sense and some logic? I commented on the issue of the Malzahn only having ONE quarterback he has worked with for more than 2 seasons (Jeremy Johnson), so it is certainly way too early to gauge their abilities to develop quarterbacks. I hope you have watched enough football to realize quarterbacks continue to develop even through a long NFL career. Making the statement, Cam and Nick just showed up already prepared to play was ridiculous. You basically give Cam and Nick all the credit for their success. I hope you remember CAM was not slated to start after Tebow left. I hope you remember Al Borges did not think much of Cam coming out of HS. I hope you remember Cam had an offer from Auburn, MSU and Kansas State coming out of JUCO. It wasn't like everyone recognized he was going to be a super star. There were actual fans like yourself that claimed Barrett Trotter was the better passer during the Spring of 2010. To say no QB has developed under Malzahn is ludicrous on so many levels. I see where you are coming from though... if the QB's play well under Malzahn or Lashlee, they were already prepared and received no development from Auburn's coaches. If the QB's struggle or fail it is completely the fault of Malzahn and Lashlee.

[Mims44 1,882]

The only thing StatTigers post is missing is a gif of a mic drop at the end

[WarTiger 3,912]

Yes, I was once a statistician with a Fortune 500 Company. Not that I'd refer to it with expertise; however the CEO usually posted my work monthly in the Board Room, due to the quality of the pretty pictures. And millions of dollars of purchases were at least partially influenced by my work, which was greatly appreciated and thoroughly scrutinized.

As for expert status - I'll reserve that for my small sport of choice Where I am recognized as one of the more excellent instructors (coaches). Not only for having won more NC's than AU and UA football teams combined, but for raising the performance of my students whatever their level. Having tweaked and worked with students whom were already NC's of their country, as well as Olympic Team members, and other hopefuls over the last thirty years. So I'm not new to seeing both good and bad coaching.

And you whined about misdirection? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do I know football ... just wee bit's and pieces...

You should have began and ended with the above ^^^^

And it doesn't require an expert to know that no matter how knowledgeable, that is to say no matter how good a person plays the game, they may be mediocre or horrible at coaching. . . teaching, and instruction.

It doesn't take an expert to recognize a player struggling but it certainly takes one to recognize why. You have no clue on how the QB's are prepared under Malzahn so stick with your Fortune 500 story.

And no matter how eloquently the numbers (and opinion) are presented, it'll not alter the truth that there's been both horrible - as well as - dignified use of QB's around here the past few years. And more of the good one's were not initially developed here. And for that you need no links (nor statistics) to see. Because the two best Cam and Nick came in ready made to play.

Perhaps Cam but not on Marshall. Mark Richt who is one of the best QB coaches in the country would not even give Marshall a shot at QB despite winning his last SEC Championship with an athletic QB in D.J. Shockley. Marshall threw 18 picks in one season as a JUCO-collegiate QB, so I don't see Marshall already being developed when he arrived at Auburn.

While the two biggest bust's have been guy's who Gus followed and hand picked from HS. Of the others Barrett and Clint were here long enough to be included as being under Gus's tutelage as QB coach (mere years).

Trotter was a Tuberville recruit and Clint Mosely was a Plan-B (2-star) QB. Neither QB was ever seriously considered to be the "future" when they were signed. You should have mentioned Kiehl Frazier of course he ended up being overwelmned at the this level but Malzahn did recruit him.

And both were at best neutral in terms of discussing their development (and to not deride their contributions). Next up was Jonathan Wallace, who set Freshman Records and subsequently never fully evolved as a QB, so he may have digressed.

What freshman record(s) did Wallace set? Johnathan Wallace is an outstanding person and extrememly inteligent, The fact he wants to pursue a coaching career and start under Malzahn speaks volumes. He wasn't a "priority" pick and was moved to WR after Malzahn returned as HFC. However, like Clint, he was a late Plan-B player never expected to become the starter at Auburn. Ask yourself why Tucker Tuberville wanted to walk on at Auburn. His father will tell you it is because he wants to coach one day and Tommy Tuberville belives he can learn a lot from being coached by Gus Malzahn. Speaking of other Auburn former coaches, ask Pat Sullivan why he hired Rhett Lashlee as his OC and QB coach. Sullivan speaks highly of the job Lashlee did in 2011 in the one year he installed a brandnew offfense and improved their unit from 17 PPG to 28 PPG.

Which leaves an injured Sean White who is still a big question and Chris Todd who was also another JUCo transfer (as well as red shirted freshman from Texas Tech).

Chris Todd himself spoke highly of his own development under Malzahn. This came from the fact he played in a similar offense in 2008 at Auburn under Tony Franklin (Air-raid variation) as he did at Texas Tech, yet had his best season playing under Malzahn the following year in a brand new offense.

You claimed there was not a large enough sample; however with the exception of the Arky State year (2012) Gus has been hands on with the QB's since 2009. So I feel free to question his development methods and more importantly his boy wonder who has yet to show any benefit in quarterback development . . . as in improving his students beyond their incoming state.

Question his development methods? Name three things Malzahn or Lashlee are doing wrong towards their poor QB development....

How many practices have you attended?

Can you break down one "passing tree" from just one play? Please include the primary and secondary routes?

How are the plays signaled onto the field?

Which plays does the QB have an automatic audible? (For this discussion, just name one)

Here is one that was actually reported in the news... what are the three points of emphasis Malzahn demands of his QB's?

Moving on....

It is a small sample and you should recognize this fact being such an expert in statistics as you boasted above. Alabama has signed 5 QB's of which 3 were highly touted during their last 5 classes yet all of them have struggled. They have relied upon a transfer from FSU and an athletic player who had been moved from position to position to actually start. Does this mean Lane Kiffen cannot develop quarterbacks? No it doesn't.

Finally, if you read my initial comments in this thread, I never stated Malzahn or Lashlee were good or bad at developing quarterbacks yet you had to toss in the, "nice try" line. Try what? Using common sense and some logic? I commented on the issue of the Malzahn only having ONE quarterback he has worked with for more than 2 seasons (Jeremy Johnson), so it is certainly way too early to gauge their abilities to develop quarterbacks. I hope you have watched enough football to realize quarterbacks continue to develop even through a long NFL career. Making the statement, Cam and Nick just showed up already prepared to play was ridiculous. You basically give Cam and Nick all the credit for their success. I hope you remember CAM was not slated to start after Tebow left. I hope you remember Al Borges did not think much of Cam coming out of HS. I hope you remember Cam had an offer from Auburn, MSU and Kansas State coming out of JUCO. It wasn't like everyone recognized he was going to be a super star. There were actual fans like yourself that claimed Barrett Trotter was the better passer during the Spring of 2010. To say no QB has developed under Malzahn is ludicrous on so many levels. I see where you are coming from though... if the QB's play well under Malzahn or Lashlee, they were already prepared and received no development from Auburn's coaches. If the QB's struggle or fail it is completely the fault of Malzahn and Lashlee.

SNAP!!... :clap:

[WaynesAUworld 179]

Yes, I was once a statistician with a Fortune 500 Company. Not that I'd refer to it with expertise; however the CEO usually posted my work monthly in the Board Room, due to the quality of the pretty pictures. And millions of dollars of purchases were at least partially influenced by my work, which was greatly appreciated and thoroughly scrutinized.

As for expert status - I'll reserve that for my small sport of choice Where I am recognized as one of the more excellent instructors (coaches). Not only for having won more NC's than AU and UA football teams combined, but for raising the performance of my students whatever their level. Having tweaked and worked with students whom were already NC's of their country, as well as Olympic Team members, and other hopefuls over the last thirty years. So I'm not new to seeing both good and bad coaching.

And you whined about misdirection? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do I know football ... just wee bit's and pieces...

You should have began and ended with the above ^^^^

And it doesn't require an expert to know that no matter how knowledgeable, that is to say no matter how good a person plays the game, they may be mediocre or horrible at coaching. . . teaching, and instruction.

It doesn't take an expert to recognize a player struggling but it certainly takes one to recognize why. You have no clue on how the QB's are prepared under Malzahn so stick with your Fortune 500 story.

And no matter how eloquently the numbers (and opinion) are presented, it'll not alter the truth that there's been both horrible - as well as - dignified use of QB's around here the past few years. And more of the good one's were not initially developed here. And for that you need no links (nor statistics) to see. Because the two best Cam and Nick came in ready made to play.

Perhaps Cam but not on Marshall. Mark Richt who is one of the best QB coaches in the country would not even give Marshall a shot at QB despite winning his last SEC Championship with an athletic QB in D.J. Shockley. Marshall threw 18 picks in one season as a JUCO-collegiate QB, so I don't see Marshall already being developed when he arrived at Auburn.

While the two biggest bust's have been guy's who Gus followed and hand picked from HS. Of the others Barrett and Clint were here long enough to be included as being under Gus's tutelage as QB coach (mere years).

Trotter was a Tuberville recruit and Clint Mosely was a Plan-B (2-star) QB. Neither QB was ever seriously considered to be the "future" when they were signed. You should have mentioned Kiehl Frazier of course he ended up being overwelmned at the this level but Malzahn did recruit him.

And both were at best neutral in terms of discussing their development (and to not deride their contributions). Next up was Jonathan Wallace, who set Freshman Records and subsequently never fully evolved as a QB, so he may have digressed.

What freshman record(s) did Wallace set? Johnathan Wallace is an outstanding person and extrememly inteligent, The fact he wants to pursue a coaching career and start under Malzahn speaks volumes. He wasn't a "priority" pick and was moved to WR after Malzahn returned as HFC. However, like Clint, he was a late Plan-B player never expected to become the starter at Auburn. Ask yourself why Tucker Tuberville wanted to walk on at Auburn. His father will tell you it is because he wants to coach one day and Tommy Tuberville belives he can learn a lot from being coached by Gus Malzahn. Speaking of other Auburn former coaches, ask Pat Sullivan why he hired Rhett Lashlee as his OC and QB coach. Sullivan speaks highly of the job Lashlee did in 2011 in the one year he installed a brandnew offfense and improved their unit from 17 PPG to 28 PPG.

Which leaves an injured Sean White who is still a big question and Chris Todd who was also another JUCo transfer (as well as red shirted freshman from Texas Tech).

Chris Todd himself spoke highly of his own development under Malzahn. This came from the fact he played in a similar offense in 2008 at Auburn under Tony Franklin (Air-raid variation) as he did at Texas Tech, yet had his best season playing under Malzahn the following year in a brand new offense.

You claimed there was not a large enough sample; however with the exception of the Arky State year (2012) Gus has been hands on with the QB's since 2009. So I feel free to question his development methods and more importantly his boy wonder who has yet to show any benefit in quarterback development . . . as in improving his students beyond their incoming state.

Question his development methods? Name three things Malzahn or Lashlee are doing wrong towards their poor QB development....

How many practices have you attended?

Can you break down one "passing tree" from just one play? Please include the primary and secondary routes?

How are the plays signaled onto the field?

Which plays does the QB have an automatic audible? (For this discussion, just name one)

Here is one that was actually reported in the news... what are the three points of emphasis Malzahn demands of his QB's?

Moving on....

It is a small sample and you should recognize this fact being such an expert in statistics as you boasted above. Alabama has signed 5 QB's of which 3 were highly touted during their last 5 classes yet all of them have struggled. They have relied upon a transfer from FSU and an athletic player who had been moved from position to position to actually start. Does this mean Lane Kiffen cannot develop quarterbacks? No it doesn't.

Finally, if you read my initial comments in this thread, I never stated Malzahn or Lashlee were good or bad at developing quarterbacks yet you had to toss in the, "nice try" line. Try what? Using common sense and some logic? I commented on the issue of the Malzahn only having ONE quarterback he has worked with for more than 2 seasons (Jeremy Johnson), so it is certainly way too early to gauge their abilities to develop quarterbacks. I hope you have watched enough football to realize quarterbacks continue to develop even through a long NFL career. Making the statement, Cam and Nick just showed up already prepared to play was ridiculous. You basically give Cam and Nick all the credit for their success. I hope you remember CAM was not slated to start after Tebow left. I hope you remember Al Borges did not think much of Cam coming out of HS. I hope you remember Cam had an offer from Auburn, MSU and Kansas State coming out of JUCO. It wasn't like everyone recognized he was going to be a super star. There were actual fans like yourself that claimed Barrett Trotter was the better passer during the Spring of 2010. To say no QB has developed under Malzahn is ludicrous on so many levels. I see where you are coming from though... if the QB's play well under Malzahn or Lashlee, they were already prepared and received no development from Auburn's coaches. If the QB's struggle or fail it is completely the fault of Malzahn and Lashlee.

SNAP!!... :clap:/> :clap:/>

That my friends is how you answer hate mail.

[alexava 6,973]

Yes, I was once a statistician with a Fortune 500 Company. Not that I'd refer to it with expertise; however the CEO usually posted my work monthly in the Board Room, due to the quality of the pretty pictures. And millions of dollars of purchases were at least partially influenced by my work, which was greatly appreciated and thoroughly scrutinized.

As for expert status - I'll reserve that for my small sport of choice Where I am recognized as one of the more excellent instructors (coaches). Not only for having won more NC's than AU and UA football teams combined, but for raising the performance of my students whatever their level. Having tweaked and worked with students whom were already NC's of their country, as well as Olympic Team members, and other hopefuls over the last thirty years. So I'm not new to seeing both good and bad coaching.

And you whined about misdirection? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do I know football ... just wee bit's and pieces...

You should have began and ended with the above ^^^^

And it doesn't require an expert to know that no matter how knowledgeable, that is to say no matter how good a person plays the game, they may be mediocre or horrible at coaching. . . teaching, and instruction.

It doesn't take an expert to recognize a player struggling but it certainly takes one to recognize why. You have no clue on how the QB's are prepared under Malzahn so stick with your Fortune 500 story.

And no matter how eloquently the numbers (and opinion) are presented, it'll not alter the truth that there's been both horrible - as well as - dignified use of QB's around here the past few years. And more of the good one's were not initially developed here. And for that you need no links (nor statistics) to see. Because the two best Cam and Nick came in ready made to play.

Perhaps Cam but not on Marshall. Mark Richt who is one of the best QB coaches in the country would not even give Marshall a shot at QB despite winning his last SEC Championship with an athletic QB in D.J. Shockley. Marshall threw 18 picks in one season as a JUCO-collegiate QB, so I don't see Marshall already being developed when he arrived at Auburn.

While the two biggest bust's have been guy's who Gus followed and hand picked from HS. Of the others Barrett and Clint were here long enough to be included as being under Gus's tutelage as QB coach (mere years).

Trotter was a Tuberville recruit and Clint Mosely was a Plan-B (2-star) QB. Neither QB was ever seriously considered to be the "future" when they were signed. You should have mentioned Kiehl Frazier of course he ended up being overwelmned at the this level but Malzahn did recruit him.

And both were at best neutral in terms of discussing their development (and to not deride their contributions). Next up was Jonathan Wallace, who set Freshman Records and subsequently never fully evolved as a QB, so he may have digressed.

What freshman record(s) did Wallace set? Johnathan Wallace is an outstanding person and extrememly inteligent, The fact he wants to pursue a coaching career and start under Malzahn speaks volumes. He wasn't a "priority" pick and was moved to WR after Malzahn returned as HFC. However, like Clint, he was a late Plan-B player never expected to become the starter at Auburn. Ask yourself why Tucker Tuberville wanted to walk on at Auburn. His father will tell you it is because he wants to coach one day and Tommy Tuberville belives he can learn a lot from being coached by Gus Malzahn. Speaking of other Auburn former coaches, ask Pat Sullivan why he hired Rhett Lashlee as his OC and QB coach. Sullivan speaks highly of the job Lashlee did in 2011 in the one year he installed a brandnew offfense and improved their unit from 17 PPG to 28 PPG.

Which leaves an injured Sean White who is still a big question and Chris Todd who was also another JUCo transfer (as well as red shirted freshman from Texas Tech).

Chris Todd himself spoke highly of his own development under Malzahn. This came from the fact he played in a similar offense in 2008 at Auburn under Tony Franklin (Air-raid variation) as he did at Texas Tech, yet had his best season playing under Malzahn the following year in a brand new offense.

You claimed there was not a large enough sample; however with the exception of the Arky State year (2012) Gus has been hands on with the QB's since 2009. So I feel free to question his development methods and more importantly his boy wonder who has yet to show any benefit in quarterback development . . . as in improving his students beyond their incoming state.

Question his development methods? Name three things Malzahn or Lashlee are doing wrong towards their poor QB development....

How many practices have you attended?

Can you break down one "passing tree" from just one play? Please include the primary and secondary routes?

How are the plays signaled onto the field?

Which plays does the QB have an automatic audible? (For this discussion, just name one)

Here is one that was actually reported in the news... what are the three points of emphasis Malzahn demands of his QB's?

Moving on....

It is a small sample and you should recognize this fact being such an expert in statistics as you boasted above. Alabama has signed 5 QB's of which 3 were highly touted during their last 5 classes yet all of them have struggled. They have relied upon a transfer from FSU and an athletic player who had been moved from position to position to actually start. Does this mean Lane Kiffen cannot develop quarterbacks? No it doesn't.

Finally, if you read my initial comments in this thread, I never stated Malzahn or Lashlee were good or bad at developing quarterbacks yet you had to toss in the, "nice try" line. Try what? Using common sense and some logic? I commented on the issue of the Malzahn only having ONE quarterback he has worked with for more than 2 seasons (Jeremy Johnson), so it is certainly way too early to gauge their abilities to develop quarterbacks. I hope you have watched enough football to realize quarterbacks continue to develop even through a long NFL career. Making the statement, Cam and Nick just showed up already prepared to play was ridiculous. You basically give Cam and Nick all the credit for their success. I hope you remember CAM was not slated to start after Tebow left. I hope you remember Al Borges did not think much of Cam coming out of HS. I hope you remember Cam had an offer from Auburn, MSU and Kansas State coming out of JUCO. It wasn't like everyone recognized he was going to be a super star. There were actual fans like yourself that claimed Barrett Trotter was the better passer during the Spring of 2010. To say no QB has developed under Malzahn is ludicrous on so many levels. I see where you are coming from though... if the QB's play well under Malzahn or Lashlee, they were already prepared and received no development from Auburn's coaches. If the QB's struggle or fail it is completely the fault of Malzahn and Lashlee.

SNAP!!... :clap:/> :clap:/>

That my friends is how you answer hate mail. :clap:/> :cheers:/>

in Fotune 500 style.

[ToomersStreet 795]

I am a tool