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Women vs. Ole Miss - Game Thread

WarTiger

By WarTiger
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AU9377 Founding Father

AU9377 4,926

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We have a problem and that problem begins and ends with recruiting.  One widely used method to gauge the talent level of a team is to look at the top five recruits they signed over the previous four years (corresponding to the typical college stint). This tells you the top five prospects a team could theoretically put on the floor.  Recruiting rankings are not exact and I would be the first to admit that they alone do not determine any individual player's future.  However, outside of wins/losses, they are the only constant we can use to gauge talent in an objective way for the purpose of this discussion.

Auburn's top 5 players signed over the past 4 years:

1. Asia Robeson - 2014 5 star., Michigan......No longer with team.

2.  Tyra Johnson - 2016 4 star., Alabama

3.  Jessica Jones - 2014 4 star, North Carolina

4.  Daisa Alexander - 2016 3 star, Georgia

5.  Jazmine Jones - 2014 3 star, North Carolina

I really believe that Auburn recruits Alabama and Georgia both equally in every sport due to our geographic proximity to metro Atlanta.  Our location, which was a burden to be overcome 50 years ago, has now evolved into a built in advantage over many programs in the Southeast. Very few teams ever contend for championships without elite talent.  Ciampi had elite talent when he led Auburn to back to back Final Fours.  Nell Fortner had Dewanna Bonner, Whitney Boddie and Allie when her team won the SEC in 2009.  We have some great young ladies on this team, but its hard to make an argument that any have talent on par with the top players in the SEC.  They just don't. What do we do? Our problem isn't with facilities. Our problem isn't location. Our problem isn't a lack of tradition, fan support or a lack of resources.  I don't know of anyone that would prefer to spend their college years on the campus of Ms State or S. Carolina over being at Auburn.  However, they may make that choice because they want to play for Dawn Staley or Schaefer.  The time has come to make some tough decisions.  If we stay with the current staff, TWF will need to make some concessions and be willing to make some changes to her staff that will enhance our recruiting.  If our style of play needs to be adjusted, that has to be on the table.  If not, we are blessed with the resources to make a competitive hire.  Just look up the street from Auburn Arena toward JBM field.  Softball brought in more than twice the revenue of AU Women's Basketball last year.  I'll leave it at that. 

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PUB78 Founding Father

PUB78 1,358

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8 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We have a problem and that problem begins and ends with recruiting.  One widely used method to gauge the talent level of a team is to look at the top five recruits they signed over the previous four years (corresponding to the typical college stint). This tells you the top five prospects a team could theoretically put on the floor.  Recruiting rankings are not exact and I would be the first to admit that they alone do not determine any individual player's future.  However, outside of wins/losses, they are the only constant we can use to gauge talent in an objective way for the purpose of this discussion.

Auburn's top 5 players signed over the past 4 years:

1. Asia Robeson - 2014 5 star., Michigan......No longer with team.

2.  Tyra Johnson - 2016 4 star., Alabama

3.  Jessica Jones - 2014 4 star, North Carolina

4.  Daisa Alexander - 2016 3 star, Georgia

5.  Jazmine Jones - 2014 3 star, North Carolina

I really believe that Auburn recruits Alabama and Georgia both equally in every sport due to our geographic proximity to metro Atlanta.  Our location, which was a burden to be overcome 50 years ago, has now evolved into a built in advantage over many programs in the Southeast. Very few teams ever contend for championships without elite talent.  Ciampi had elite talent when he led Auburn to back to back Final Fours.  Nell Fortner had Dewanna Bonner, Whitney Boddie and Allie when her team won the SEC in 2009.  We have some great young ladies on this team, but its hard to make an argument that any have talent on par with the top players in the SEC.  They just don't. What do we do? Our problem isn't with facilities. Our problem isn't location. Our problem isn't a lack of tradition, fan support or a lack of resources.  I don't know of anyone that would prefer to spend their college years on the campus of Ms State or S. Carolina over being at Auburn.  However, they may make that choice because they want to play for Dawn Staley or Schaefer.  The time has come to make some tough decisions.  If we stay with the current staff, TWF will need to make some concessions and be willing to make some changes to her staff that will enhance our recruiting.  If our style of play needs to be adjusted, that has to be on the table.  If not, we are blessed with the resources to make a competitive hire.  Just look up the street from Auburn Arena toward JBM field.  Softball brought in more than twice the revenue of AU Women's Basketball last year.  I'll leave it at that. 

Yes, Flo has underachieved.   

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AU64 Founding Father

AU64 10,122

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9 hours ago, Mikey said:

This one looked like the game nobody wanted to win.

Yep....at half time the commenters had a hard time trying to find anything good to talk about....but teams are both indicative of what the league pretty much looks like once you get beyond the top couple.

The league is in bad shape and the good piece by 9377 above could be written about a handful of  other SEC schools...just fill in the blanks with different names and such but otherwise, it pretty well describes the plight of most teams in the league. 

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steeleagle Founding Father

steeleagle 2,945

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5 in a row. 7-8 losses now. That's not the way to go down the stretch. This is more than recruiting to me, although, if its true her best recruits 2 of the last 3 years has been a 3*, then that surely is an additional problem.

But over these weeks they have been losing, they are also losing to teams they are equal to, but can't seem to win. That to me is more about the program, and how the coach teaches on and off the court, in order to beat those teams. Flo seems to have these streaks every year. She has never had an above .500 SEC record(highest finish was 7th), and made the NCAA last year for the first time in 5.  

I am not inside the program, so this is only my opinion. If there are facts to support a change, then i would like to hear them.

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PUB78 Founding Father

PUB78 1,358

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34 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

5 in a row. 7-8 losses now. That's not the way to go down the stretch. This is more than recruiting to me, although, if its true her best recruits 2 of the last 3 years has been a 3*, then that surely is an additional problem.

But over these weeks they have been losing, they are also losing to teams they are equal to, but can't seem to win. That to me is more about the program, and how the coach teaches on and off the court, in order to beat those teams. Flo seems to have these streaks every year. She has never had an above .500 SEC record(highest finish was 7th), and made the NCAA last year for the first time in 5.  

I am not inside the program, so this is only my opinion. If there are facts to support a change, then i would like to hear them.

I, too, would like to hear from some of the "insiders" of the women's BB program. When Flo was hired, it seemed to be a home run, but hasn't panned out that way.

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steeleagle Founding Father

steeleagle 2,945

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1 hour ago, PUB78 said:

I, too, would like to hear from some of the "insiders" of the women's BB program. When Flo was hired, it seemed to be a home run, but hasn't panned out that way.

Actually, when she was hired, i never thought of her as in the 'homerun' hire category. I felt she was typical of JJ's hiring at that time, like the Pawlowski's, Barbie hire. Good record at a good school but not Power 5 school, although basketball is different than football when it comes to who are the really good coaches.

I think, at this moment, she is one of those hires that we THOUGHT could get us to the level we achieved under Ciampi, but it was a gamble hire IMO.

Now getting Pearl and Meyers after those type hires were big time hires of coaches with top level school resumes.

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AU9377 Founding Father

AU9377 4,926

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1 hour ago, steeleagle said:

Actually, when she was hired, i never thought of her as in the 'homerun' hire category. I felt she was typical of JJ's hiring at that time, like the Pawlowski's, Barbie hire. Good record at a good school but not Power 5 school, although basketball is different than football when it comes to who are the really good coaches.

I think, at this moment, she is one of those hires that we THOUGHT could get us to the level we achieved under Ciampi, but it was a gamble hire IMO.

Now getting Pearl and Meyers after those type hires were big time hires of coaches with top level school resumes.

You are spot on.  Her hire made sense.  It was a reasonable hire, but to be honest it wasn't the hire that most, including girls on the team, had hoped we were about to make.  Nonetheless, everyone got behind the hire once it was made.  To Terri's credit, she is a wonderful person.  She has a beautiful family and she is well connected nationally.  My growing desire to see us make a change has absolutely nothing to do with her personally.  I honestly wish that things had worked out differently.  I even fell guilty saying that, but this cannot be a decision based on how we feel.  This has to be about what is best for the program.  I do believe that we had 2 or 3 candidates that had very similar resumes last time.  My choice would have been Kelli Jolly Harper last time around or Jody Adams. I believe that Terri had a few things on her side that nudged her ahead of the group.  By hiring Terri, we were able to hire an African American coach that had a record of success, she had coached for 7 years at UGA as the top assistant to Andy Landers and had taken Georgetown to back to back NCAA tournaments.  She is also well connected with AAU basketball due to her brother being the national chairman of AAU basketball.  Be clear, I did not say that she was hired because she is a minority.  I said that those factors were positive attributes that added to other elements of her coaching record made her resume stand out from some others.

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AU9377 Founding Father

AU9377 4,926

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Just for purpose of discussion... if we were to find ourselves in the market, a home run hire, in my opinion, would be someone like Mike Neighbors at the University of Washington.  He is an Arkansas native, has spent time coaching under Gary Blair at Arkansas and Kevin McGuff, current Ohio State HC.  He coached UW to the Final Four last year. This would be a costly hire, but one we can afford if he is interested. He was interested last time around, but took the UW job the next year.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Neighbors

One the next level of hires....all of which would be great hires, just shy of being called a HR.... I would look to Karl Smesko at Florida Gulf Coast.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Smesko

He won the 2012 Kay Yow coach of the year award and has a record of 376-77.

I have no issue with giving preference to a female coach to lead the women's program.  If we go that route, I would consider Kelli Jolly Harper again and although she just parted ways with Wichita State, I would consider Jody Adams. Adams is a very tough coach, from the Pat Summitt tree of coaches.  She is the type that players either love or hate, but she gets results.

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steeleagle Founding Father

steeleagle 2,945

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I think it will boil down to does JJ WANT to spend more money on a Women's BB program? Can WOmen's BB really bring in the revenue to support a more expensive Head coach? I don't know the answer to that.

It is even harder when the current coach is doing good...and got us in the NCAA finally last year...and not done too much bad to for it to be easy for JJ to make a change. 

This is her fifth year...and now it looks unless she gets hot at the end of year and in the SEC tourney will not get us back to the NCAAs...so mayve then it will be time to reevaluate the program...

 

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AU9377 Founding Father

AU9377 4,926

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54 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I think it will boil down to does JJ WANT to spend more money on a Women's BB program? Can WOmen's BB really bring in the revenue to support a more expensive Head coach? I don't know the answer to that.

It is even harder when the current coach is doing good...and got us in the NCAA finally last year...and not done too much bad to for it to be easy for JJ to make a change. 

This is her fifth year...and now it looks unless she gets hot at the end of year and in the SEC tourney will not get us back to the NCAAs...so mayve then it will be time to reevaluate the program...

 

She is completing the final year of her contract, which pays $500,000.  We wouldn't be spending more on the program, unless we hire a top 10 coach.  Even then, its unlikely that we would be paying more than we currently pay TWF.   That being said, there is no reason that women's basketball shouldn't be pulling in more revenue.  Softball pulled in twice the revenue of women's basketball last year.  Our Athletic Dept ended the year with a net profit of $15.2 million.  To put in perspective, we paid Gene Chizik the last installment of his contract pay out this year, which was $750,000 approx.  Money isn't going to be part of the equation.  If this wasn't the last year of the contract, I would agree with you.

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warladytigers Rising Star

warladytigers 172

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15 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We have a problem and that problem begins and ends with recruiting.  One widely used method to gauge the talent level of a team is to look at the top five recruits they signed over the previous four years (corresponding to the typical college stint). This tells you the top five prospects a team could theoretically put on the floor.  Recruiting rankings are not exact and I would be the first to admit that they alone do not determine any individual player's future.  However, outside of wins/losses, they are the only constant we can use to gauge talent in an objective way for the purpose of this discussion.

Auburn's top 5 players signed over the past 4 years:

1. Asia Robeson - 2014 5 star., Michigan......No longer with team.

2.  Tyra Johnson - 2016 4 star., Alabama

3.  Jessica Jones - 2014 4 star, North Carolina

4.  Daisa Alexander - 2016 3 star, Georgia

5.  Jazmine Jones - 2014 3 star, North Carolina

I really believe that Auburn recruits Alabama and Georgia both equally in every sport due to our geographic proximity to metro Atlanta.  Our location, which was a burden to be overcome 50 years ago, has now evolved into a built in advantage over many programs in the Southeast. Very few teams ever contend for championships without elite talent.  Ciampi had elite talent when he led Auburn to back to back Final Fours.  Nell Fortner had Dewanna Bonner, Whitney Boddie and Allie when her team won the SEC in 2009.  We have some great young ladies on this team, but its hard to make an argument that any have talent on par with the top players in the SEC.  They just don't. What do we do? Our problem isn't with facilities. Our problem isn't location. Our problem isn't a lack of tradition, fan support or a lack of resources.  I don't know of anyone that would prefer to spend their college years on the campus of Ms State or S. Carolina over being at Auburn.  However, they may make that choice because they want to play for Dawn Staley or Schaefer.  The time has come to make some tough decisions.  If we stay with the current staff, TWF will need to make some concessions and be willing to make some changes to her staff that will enhance our recruiting.  If our style of play needs to be adjusted, that has to be on the table.  If not, we are blessed with the resources to make a competitive hire.  Just look up the street from Auburn Arena toward JBM field.  Softball brought in more than twice the revenue of AU Women's Basketball last year.  I'll leave it at that. 

IMO - at the end of the season, playing 40 minutes of full court press has the players in a fatigued state.  Matt Mitchell finally gave it up at Kentucky....it's fun to watch but it would seem very difficult to sustain.....not all players are interested and many "bigs" cannot get up and down the court.....but we don't have one so right now it doesn't matter.  Just as much of a concern - half-court offense.  We seem to be lacking in basics - where are the screen plays, drive and pass out, pick and roll?

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steeleagle Founding Father

steeleagle 2,945

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3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

She is completing the final year of her contract, which pays $500,000.  We wouldn't be spending more on the program, unless we hire a top 10 coach.  Even then, its unlikely that we would be paying more than we currently pay TWF.   That being said, there is no reason that women's basketball shouldn't be pulling in more revenue.  Softball pulled in twice the revenue of women's basketball last year.  Our Athletic Dept ended the year with a net profit of $15.2 million.  To put in perspective, we paid Gene Chizik the last installment of his contract pay out this year, which was $750,000 approx.  Money isn't going to be part of the equation.  If this wasn't the last year of the contract, I would agree with you.

I think that's a telling sign. Usually contract extensions are done before the final year of a contract. And even with her getting the team to the NCAAs last year, JJ still didnt extend her contract? Sounds like maybe she may NOT get that extension now...unless she finds a way to get them to the NCAA again....

 

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