14 years with a draft pick

[keesler 5,924]

35 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Neither really run a Gus style offense. They use elements, but they don't put all of the focus into misdirection. They just grabbed dual threat QBs and took advantage of their abilities.

Also, no one had run a Gus style offense better than Gus did at Tulsa. If Urban ran a Gus style offense better than Gus, then Ohio state, especially with their schedule, would have had the most prolific offense in the NCAA.  Last year they were 11th in rushing and 81st in passing and 31st in total. 

I think after the last 2 1/2 seasons it's crystal clear that Gus needs to change his offensive focus, because that crap we've seen the last 2 full seasons was nauseating at times.  This is the freaking SEC, it's not Tulsa, Arkansas State or high school ball.  

I seems like the jackass coaches "using elements" of Gus' style of offense are doing a damn sight better than Gus these days.  Perhaps using elements of his brain child offense is better than going all in with it and putting some schizophrenic twirly bird/give errrrbody a shot at QB crap on the field?

There is a reason the man is coaching for his job this season.  A large contingent of the fan base and the AU Administration are no longer satisfied with Gus' style of offense, or his roster management, or his game planning, or his play-calling, etc.  As fun and family friendly as it may be for a select few, it does not win on a consistent level close to what the douchebag/jackass coaches are winning.

There's no fun in losing, the family gets pissed when they see a product on the field that makes it apparent the man in charge may be out of this league and pay scale for a high caliber HC job in the SEC such as Auburn.

[Gowebb11 9,320]

Great programs aren't built on schemes, or a particular QB, or tricky play calling. They are built on a culture of excellence at all levels of the organization. Urban is not a great coach because he wins at OSU. He is a great coach because he won at Bowling Green, then Utah, then Florida, now OSU. The man knows how to run a program. So does Saban, and so does Dabo. And like all great CEOs, the best aren't always the most adored by the masses. Jack Welch had a lot of enemies at GE, and by some standards might have been a bad guy. But he was there to create maximum value to the shareholder and that he did. Gus needs to grow into that mindset, and quick. 

[GwillMac6 20,671]

42 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Ask some of the team parents.

And look who it led us 2?! SO glad some good came out of his tenure. Butch Thompson is jay Jacobs wet dream for a coach for Auburn University imo. I mean that in the nicest possible way. Seems like a great, Christian, family guy which we all know JJ puts a premium emphasis on when it comes to coaching searches a lot of times. (not all.) But unlike gus, chiz and others he actually seems to be a really good coach. KNOCK ON WOOD OF COURSE. It is only one year and this is Auburn nothing is guaranteed in terms of consistent success in men sports for us lol.

[GwillMac6 20,671]

2 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Great programs aren't built on schemes, or a particular QB, or tricky play calling. They are built on a culture of excellence at all levels of the organization. Urban is not a great coach because he wins at OSU. He is a great coach because he won at Bowling Green, then Utah, then Florida, now OSU. The man knows how to run a program. So does Saban, and so does Dabo. And like all great CEOs, the best aren't always the most adored by the masses. Jack Welch had a lot of enemies at GE, and by some standards might have been a bad guy. But he was there to create maximum value to the shareholder and that he did. Gus needs to grow into that mindset, and quick. 

I agree with you for the record just letting you know people are going to come by and poke holes in your theory because of Sabans record at mich st and the dolphins. Again tho I completely agree with you. Just a heads up.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

26 minutes ago, keesler said:

I think after the last 2 1/2 seasons it's crystal clear that Gus needs to change his offensive focus, because that crap we've seen the last 2 full seasons was nauseating at times.  This is the freaking SEC, it's not Tulsa, Arkansas State or high school ball.  

I seems like the jackass coaches "using elements" of Gus' style of offense are doing a damn sight better than Gus these days.  Perhaps using elements of his brain child offense is better than going all in with it and putting some schizophrenic twirly bird/give errrrbody a shot at QB crap on the field?

There is a reason the man is coaching for his job this season.  A large contingent of the fan base and the AU Administration are no longer satisfied with Gus' style of offense, or his roster management, or his game planning, or his play-calling, etc.  As fun and family friendly as it may be for a select few, it does not win on a consistent level close to what the douchebag/jackass coaches are winning.

There's no fun in losing, the family gets pissed when they see a product on the field that makes it apparent the man in charge may be out of this league and pay scale for a high caliber HC job in the SEC such as Auburn.

What has me intrigued is why, when I point out that Gus us not coaching with a focus toward the NFL and say nothing about how good or bad his style is, you and DAG, and Gwill and Loof (this one really surprises me), decide that this discussion suddenly needs to be yet another referendum on Gus's ability to coach.

Can we let the dead horse lie and maybe one of you actually speak to what I have said which is that what our coaches are trying to achieve (or at least what they were trying to achieve pre Chip) on the field does not lend itself well to preparing players for the NFL.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

9 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Great programs aren't built on schemes, or a particular QB, or tricky play calling. They are built on a culture of excellence at all levels of the organization. Urban is not a great coach because he wins at OSU. He is a great coach because he won at Bowling Green, then Utah, then Florida, now OSU. The man knows how to run a program. So does Saban, and so does Dabo. And like all great CEOs, the best aren't always the most adored by the masses. Jack Welch had a lot of enemies at GE, and by some standards might have been a bad guy. But he was there to create maximum value to the shareholder and that he did. Gus needs to grow into that mindset, and quick. 

I can't say that I disagree with you, but as I have stated, for at the last 4 years... probably more like 8 years, Auburn's program HAS been built on schemes, "trick" play calling, speed, and etc. I think that is changing and my hope is that Gus can learn to be a CEO and show the world of football that you can be a great head coach with a great program, and not be a complete a**, and that you can build a culture of excellence without covering for player improprieties, skirting the rules, etc.

[AU64 10,122]

So Urban...and Nick....and who is the 3rd or 4th or 5th guy out there in college football who is their equal?   Just thinking that obnoxious as they are, some people who are just better at their jobs than anyone else...and moping around because our guy is not like them?  What a waste of time.

First we know we aren't going to get either of those guys....and I'm just wondering if you had a bottomless pit of money, who do you think you could entice to AU who is better than those two guys or who would beat them half the time?  Which coach who  ould even give AU a second look is better than those guys ..no matter the money...Dabo?  or Fisher?   really?   Or who. ?   Meanwhile we worry about player development while our kids have a new system and coordinator about every year..as we keep hunting for the reincarnation of NS...or even UM....and we wonder why they don't show up in the draft.  

This whole business of dissing Gus because he is not Nick or Urban...makes no sense to me.  

Otherwise, I'm still looking for the name of the person...or a couple names for that matter who could be our next HC..... other than the few sleazebags who keep getting mentioned...mostly because respectable schools won't touch them.  

[Gowebb11 9,320]

19 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

I agree with you for the record just letting you know people are going to come by and poke holes in your theory because of Sabans record at mich st and the dolphins. Again tho I completely agree with you. Just a heads up.

It would be a valid criticism but not my reference to Gus growing into the role. It is entirely possible, and I would argue that is exactly what Saban did. It's not all on Gus either. The AD plays a vital role. Here's an easy example. A couple of years ago, we had Rashan Gary on campus. At the time he was the nations top recruit. According to numerous sources, his mom was underwhelmed by the academic presentation. According to at least on recruiting analyst, the AU staff "scrambled" to get her the information she was looking for. When you have the nations top recruit on campus, the expectation should be a best in class presentation. You don't get a second chance on something like that and our academic support staff should've been all over it preemptively. 

By the way, your original post of 14 straight years with a draftee is much appreciated. It is easy on a message board to focus on every negative, but there are a lot of great things going on at Auburn right now. Top ranked baseball and softball programs, a rising basketball program, and a football team geared for high levels of success. WDE. 

[GwillMac6 20,671]

26 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

What has me intrigued is why, when I point out that Gus us not coaching with a focus toward the NFL and say nothing about how good or bad his style is, you and DAG, and Gwill and Loof (this one really surprises me), decide that this discussion suddenly needs to be yet another referendum on Gus's ability to coach.

Can we let the dead horse lie and maybe one of you actually speak to what I have said which is that what our coaches are trying to achieve (or at least what they were trying to achieve pre Chip) on the field does not lend itself well to preparing players for the NFL.

Now, I'm not knocking Gus or our program, it's exciting, and with the right pieces, it gets the job done. It also yields itself to the fun, family atmosphere that we prefer. 

Look at the teams who fill the draft annually... bama and Ohio State. Now look at their coaches. I'd rather have Gus and his style than either of those two SOBs and their "programs".......... I cannot speak for anyone else but me but these comments from you is why I went back down the road I did. So you basically led us all there! haha.

[GwillMac6 20,671]

4 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

It would be a valid criticism but not my reference to Gus growing into the role. It is entirely possible, and I would argue that is exactly what Saban did. It's not all on Gus either. The AD plays a vital role. Here's an easy example. A couple of years ago, we had Rashan Gary on campus. At the time he was the nations top recruit. According to numerous sources, his mom was underwhelmed by the academic presentation. According to at least on recruiting analyst, the AU staff "scrambled" to get her the information she was looking for. When you have the nations top recruit on campus, the expectation should be a best in class presentation. You don't get a second chance on something like that and our academic support staff should've been all over it preemptively. 

By the way, your original post of 14 straight years with a draftee is much appreciated. It is easy on a message board to focus on every negative, but there are a lot of great things going on at Auburn right now. Top ranked baseball and softball programs, a rising basketball program, and a football team geared for high levels of success. WDE. 

Auburn needs the power of positivity sometimes!! It can get very negative and frustrating with the success across the state and I am to blame as much as anyone for that so I threw a little sunshine pumping to mix things up.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

1 hour ago, keesler said:

I think after the last 2 1/2 seasons it's crystal clear that Gus needs to change his offensive focus, because that crap we've seen the last 2 full seasons was nauseating at times.  This is the freaking SEC, it's not Tulsa, Arkansas State or high school ball.  

I seems like the jackass coaches "using elements" of Gus' style of offense are doing a damn sight better than Gus these days.  Perhaps using elements of his brain child offense is better than going all in with it and putting some schizophrenic twirly bird/give errrrbody a shot at QB crap on the field?

There is a reason the man is coaching for his job this season.  A large contingent of the fan base and the AU Administration are no longer satisfied with Gus' style of offense, or his roster management, or his game planning, or his play-calling, etc.  As fun and family friendly as it may be for a select few, it does not win on a consistent level close to what the douchebag/jackass coaches are winning.

There's no fun in losing, the family gets pissed when they see a product on the field that makes it apparent the man in charge may be out of this league and pay scale for a high caliber HC job in the SEC such as Auburn.

**slow clap*** 

[keesler 5,924]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

What has me intrigued is why, when I point out that Gus us not coaching with a focus toward the NFL and say nothing about how good or bad his style is, you and DAG, and Gwill and Loof (this one really surprises me), decide that this discussion suddenly needs to be yet another referendum on Gus's ability to coach.

Can we let the dead horse lie and maybe one of you actually speak to what I have said which is that what our coaches are trying to achieve (or at least what they were trying to achieve pre Chip) on the field does not lend itself well to preparing players for the NFL.

You will get blow back from others when you gloss over the facts of the current state of this program and post the touchy/feely stuff relative to the fun, family atmosphere and Gus' tenure at freaking Tulsa from 7-8 yrs ago in the wake of the '17 draft where programs like Ashland (wth is that)/Troy/SoAla/Vandy/Charlotte had players drafted before Auburn.

When you state that Gus is not coaching with a focus toward the NFL, then maybe he needs to alter his focus.  Because if he shifted his focus to develop his players to NFL level quality then by the same token, they'd be developed to a point where they'd be winning at a higher level at Auburn.  

Plain and simple, Auburn consistently brings in top 10 classes - they do not consistently finish the season ranked in the top 10 and when we see the couple of studs we have on the team drop in the draft then why even bring up Gus' fun offense and the family friendly atmosphere some AU fans crave?  While trashing a couple of the top HC in college ball today, because a few fans may choose to keep Gus at all costs rather than have a SOB Saban/Meyer type HC? 

After 4 yrs on the job and pulling in +/-$20million OUR head coach has somehow found a way to land his ass in a position where he is coaching for his job.  But low and behold, he is a good Christian man with a super fun offensive scheme that blows folks out of the water when he has the "right" QB and a super experienced Oline, both of which have escaped him in the last 2 seasons.

 

40 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Now, I'm not knocking Gus or our program, it's exciting, and with the right pieces, it gets the job done. It also yields itself to the fun, family atmosphere that we prefer. 

Look at the teams who fill the draft annually... bama and Ohio State. Now look at their coaches. I'd rather have Gus and his style than either of those two SOBs and their "programs".......... I cannot speak for anyone else but me but these comments from you is why I went back down the road I did. So you basically led us all there! haha.

Ditto for me GwillMac6.

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

1 hour ago, Gowebb11 said:

Great programs aren't built on schemes, or a particular QB, or tricky play calling. They are built on a culture of excellence at all levels of the organization. Urban is not a great coach because he wins at OSU. He is a great coach because he won at Bowling Green, then Utah, then Florida, now OSU. The man knows how to run a program. So does Saban, and so does Dabo. And like all great CEOs, the best aren't always the most adored by the masses. Jack Welch had a lot of enemies at GE, and by some standards might have been a bad guy. But he was there to create maximum value to the shareholder and that he did. Gus needs to grow into that mindset, and quick. 

Gus is his own worst enemy. Nothing has held him back except for himself. I just hope he's finally learned. Although i'm very fearful that once the ball kicks off he'll get that "itch" and go back to his old ways. I sure hope not b/c i'm tired of wasting valuable talent. This is a legit championship team and i have not felt that way about many AU teams without seeing 2-3 games. 

[keesler 5,924]

2 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

Gus is his own worst enemy. Nothing has held him back except for himself. I just hope he's finally learned. Although i'm very fearful that once the ball kicks off he'll get that "itch" and go back to his old ways. I sure hope not b/c i'm tired of wasting valuable talent. This is a legit championship team and i have not felt that way amount many AU teams without seeing 2-3 games. 

The excuses are tiresome at this point.  It's put up or shut up 'n pack your bags, give way to a new regime time.  Get it DONE Coach!

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

You will get blow back from others when you gloss over the facts of the current state of this program and post the touchy/feely stuff relative to the fun, family atmosphere and Gus' tenure at freaking Tulsa from 7-8 yrs ago in the wake of the '17 draft where programs like Ashland (wth is that)/Troy/SoAla/Vandy/Charlotte had players drafted before Auburn.

When you state that Gus is not coaching with a focus toward the NFL, then maybe he needs to alter his focus.  Because if he shifted his focus to develop his players to NFL level quality then by the same token, they'd be developed to a point where they'd be winning at a higher level in at Auburn.  

Plain and simple, Auburn consistently brings in top 10 classes - they do not consistently finish the season ranked in the top 10 and when we see the couple of studs we have on the team drop in the draft then why even bring up Gus' fun offense and the family friendly atmosphere some AU fans crave?  While trashing a couple of the top HC in college ball today, because a few fans may choose to keep Gus at all costs rather than have a SOB Saban/Meyer type HC? 

After 4 yrs on the job and pulling in +/-$20million OUR head coach has somehow found a way to land his ass in a position where he is coaching for his job.  But low and behold, he is a good Christian man with a super fun offensive scheme that blows folks out of the water when he has the "right" QB and a super experienced Oline

But the thing is Keesler, I wasn't talking about whether what he is doing is right or wrong, I was talking about how his offense, the way he created it and runs it, doesn't yield itself to developing NFL talent, but does yield itself to breaking records in the college ranks. It is what it is, however. Even when it's firing on all cylinders and everyone is calling Gus the best thing since sliced bread, it's still not cranking out NFL talent.

This thread has nothing to do with how many games we win each year, there are plenty of those threads already. 

I don't disagree that a shift of focus will be beneficial for us, and I think that shift has happened.  If Chip's offense is run like I think it will be, we should see a QB, at least one running back, and a several receivers have a shot at the draft. Braden will probably get a shot no matter what.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

47 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

Now, I'm not knocking Gus or our program, it's exciting, and with the right pieces, it gets the job done. It also yields itself to the fun, family atmosphere that we prefer. 

Look at the teams who fill the draft annually... bama and Ohio State. Now look at their coaches. I'd rather have Gus and his style than either of those two SOBs and their "programs".......... I cannot speak for anyone else but me but these comments from you is why I went back down the road I did. So you basically led us all there! haha.

I stand by what I said. I'd rather be a middle of the road football team than have my Alma Mater represented at the highest level by a reprehensible human being.

[augolf1716 21,122]

Just please beat uga and/or turds

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

 

5 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Just please beat uga and/or turds

BOTH! Sure as hell better not lose to UGA again!

[WarEagle1983 2,185]

As least we're not UGA. 1 player drafted compared to West Georgia with 2 players. Coaches have to start putting emphasis on developing all the top talent they're recruiting. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

19 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

As least we're not UGA. 1 player drafted compared to West Georgia with 2 players. Coaches have to start putting emphasis on developing all the top talent they're recruiting. 

And Georgia has no excuse. Their style of play fits perfectly with the NFL... and the have recruited as well as or better than we have, historically.

[GwillMac6 20,671]

55 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I stand by what I said. I'd rather be a middle of the road football team than have my Alma Mater represented at the highest level by a reprehensible human being.

And again I see no evidence that both of those guys are that. Dbag? yes. Unlikeable? Of course. Arrogant? absolutely. All those traits describe a lot of people who are great at their profession.  But you are going way past that and honestly assuming a lot. Art Briles would fall in the category your describing. I have seen nothing that Urbs and Saban run the type of program that briles allowed it to get to at baylor. I get you do not like them but your going to far in your description of them imo.

[augolf1716 21,122]

39 minutes ago, WarEagle1983 said:

As least we're not UGA. 1 player drafted compared to West Georgia with 2 players. Coaches have to start putting emphasis on developing all the top talent they're recruiting. 

true but we can't beat them in football lately

[McLoofus 35,182]

I disagree that there are any philosophical aspects to Gus's offense that hamper his players' development. Teams zone block in the NFL. Teams line up in shotgun in the NFL. Running hurry up doesn't stunt a player's growth. It's not his "system" that is failing. And that's why I don't separate the conversations, Lion.

And, again, his offense has nothing to do with whether or not our defensive players get drafted.

 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

37 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

And again I see no evidence that both of those guys are that. Dbag? yes. But your going way past that. Art Briles would fall in the category your describing. I have seen nothing that Urbs and Saban run the type of program that briles allowed it to get to at baylor. I get you do not like them but your going to far in your description of them imo.

I may be stretching on Urban... he's a lot less public about the crap he does but his name sure does come up a lot when shady, classless things happen, but Saban... the dude walked over a player who was convulsing on the floor to go to his office... he throws his players under the bus every time they lose... he treats basically everyone like a 3rd class citizen unless the cameras are rolling, and then still does it to the media when the are... and not because they are acting like they do with Gus. add to that the fact that the bama machine makes it so we have no clue what his players do that the public never hears about (but we do know that they work too hard in the heat to be punished)... I don't think I'm going to far.

As for Briles... the situation around him is reprehensible, the players involved are reprehensible, the AD and his lawyer are reprehensible, but everything I've read about the situation says that Briles acted no differently than Saban, Meyer, Miles, Stoops, or any number of other coaches who cover for their player's misdeeds. In fact, the evidence presented shows that it was the AD and the lawyer who did the covering up when it came to sexual misconduct. But hey, he's the poster boy for evil in sports, now (should be Stoops), so I'm sure all of the coaches who constantly cover their players butts appreciate the continuation of the theme. 

[Gowebb11 9,320]

53 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I stand by what I said. I'd rather be a middle of the road football team than have my Alma Mater represented at the highest level by a reprehensible human being.

It's a great notion and I too want Auburn represented by class individuals in all things. I truly believe the Auburn Creed is a great representation of what we are all about. But here's the way it works. Bama puts the Bear on a pedestal, but we remember him as a corrupt drunk. We put Pat Dye on a pedestal, but UGA fans only remember him as a cheater who got us on probation. Texas A&M speak of Jackie Sherrill as a hard nosed football coaching legend, while Texas fans remember him as a massive cheater and a jerk. We can easily explain away Cam Gate and declare Chizik a fine family man. Most of the rest of the nation will always believe we bought a national championship and he is a slimy coach who orchestrated it. College football is generally a dirty business and we are all a bit hypocritical when it comes to judging the teams and coaches who are beating us. The point is, we generally see our guy in a little better light than others and vice versa  

Right now, I'm proud of all our major sport coaches and believe we have a great combination of talent and character amongst them.