The SEC

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

I was listening to Sirius College football today while driving and they were talking about how down the SEC is this year and how other conferences are catching up or have surpassed the SEC.  In the past I attributed this almost exclusively to QB play in the league.  Today I switched my thinking to coaching.  What made me do this is seeing guys like Purdue's coach have success this year.

Over the last 5 years the SEC has slowly lost all of it's big time coaches.  Some did not change with the game as it changed and some retired.  When you look at the SEC this year to date the successful teams have coaches who have been there the longest.  On the other hand, as expected, new coaches are struggling.  Take Auburn out of the equation because Gus has trended downward since 2013.

As astonishing as it sounds after 3 weeks of football, Dan Mullen appears to be the coach other than Saban who has his team running smoothly.  The UGA game this weekend will tell alot.  

There is no more Urban Meyer.  No more Les Miles.  No more Houston Nutt.  No more Mark Richt.  No more Gary Pinkel.  No more Lou Holtz.  No more Hugh Freeze.  No more James Franklin.  These coaches could coach football like them or not.  The SEC had the best collection of coaches bar none compared to any conference.  All things being equal talent wise these coaches could line up and beat you by coaching alone.  

This is no longer the case in the SEC.  Other than Saban what coach will win you an evenly matched game on coaching alone?  The answers are much fewer than before.  I believe the SEC is down because those great coaches are in other conferences or they have been fired or retired.

This leads me to another topic which is about Auburn.  For some reason, and I don't know if it was CTT that started it or Auburn's power people, Auburn decided at some point along the way that we could only win against Alabama and others with a gimmick offense.  The thinking being that we needed to use smoke and mirrors to give us an advantage.  This started with the Tony Franklin experiment under Tubbs and is still with us today.  I'm not against changing things up to keep up with the game but I sure would like our next coach to go to a more conventional West Coast type of offense.  Through recruiting we have built our talent level back up to a point where we don't have to always use stupid cute plays that Gus likes to run to be successful.  I hope if this year does not work out for Gus that we go to a more conventional offense that does not rely on a RPO QB to be successful.  

Steve Spurrier said today that he is tired of hearing about coaches needing time to get their players for their system.  He said a great coach will take what he has and go win with them putting what players he has in position to succeed.  We need a coach that isn't lost if he does not have the one special player to make his system work.

[DAG 34,003]

How many threads are you going to make about not liking CGM? I mean my god I am not happy with Gus, but I hope we start winning conventionally again so we can get back to talking football. I almost miss poor @lionheartkc and his takes because at the very least we could still talk some football with debateable points. 

Btw, the talent we recruit obviously likes the idea of playing in a non-traditional offense. The issue is being adaptive not necessarily the offense . CGM for some odd reason lost his creativity after the NM years. The principles he ran in 2007 with Chris Todd have completely went dormant for the QB read that he loves. The problem with the QB read first option is you need a dynamic player back there. If you don't have that , it implodes. I am still going to give CCL a chance to see what he can do, as he was clearly handicapped the first two games.

Another point. This gimmick offense did help us get to two NCs and yes I know the personell was helpful with that. However, I seriously doubt that would've been the case had we been running a traditional offense . Also, if you may, I can't remember the last team who beat Bama running a traditional offense. Maybe LSU back during the game of the century, but a large portion of their losses under Saban occurred against teams with non-traditional offenses. 

[TigerOne 1,151]

uat has destroyed the sec. They get to play by their on rules, their poison has infiltrated the sec offices, the ncaa, and politics.

When you get your people in positions of power the rest will suffer. You could see this coming 5 years ago.

And the other schools let it happen, so not sorry to see the conference suck, when it turned on Auburn during Cam's

year and ignored uat blatant cheating they sealed the deal.

[AU64 10,122]

I really don't see how AU should be classified as a gimmick offense.  Sure there was a lot of shifting and post cards on the side but when you come down to it, Gus is mostly abou power football with the running game with some reverses and sweeps mixed in...which about everyone does these days.    Even the passes were mostly safe stuff......all very conventional.

My thought about Gus is not that his offense is too gimmicky....but that it is too conventional and not much different than Saban's in the sense that he has to have superior athletes in his OL to make the power game work.

No doubt the offense works better with a Nick or Cam....but just about every coach requires a good QB to make the offense work.  Mullens found Dak and this new guy and built  an offense around them.   Good thing for him however is that his fans don't demand that he win 10 or 11 games every year but DM is no better than his QB either.

What I was hoping we would get with CCL is more of a non-conventional offense....not gimmicks but at least not a disguised version of what bama or Georgia or LSU have been running.  Too early to tell yet in my view, but maybe we are trending toward a non-conventional SEC offense.....hope so. 

[1auburn1 1,120]

The Gus offense isn't the problem, it's that he lost out on recruiting the right QBs to run it.    Then he wasn't capable or willing to adapt to the talent he had on hand.   That said, the RPO is a lot more popular today than it was a few years ago so defenses are catching up to it.     You must be able to adapt your offense constantly if you want to be successful in Big Boy football.

[Newbomb 193]

2 hours ago, TigerOne said:

uat has destroyed the sec. They get to play by their on rules, their poison has infiltrated the sec offices, the ncaa, and politics.

When you get your people in positions of power the rest will suffer. You could see this coming 5 years ago.

And the other schools let it happen, so not sorry to see the conference suck, when it turned on Auburn during Cam's

year and ignored uat blatant cheating they sealed the deal.

No holding was called on this post....

[WDEKC 187]

Lost me when you included Lou Holtz. He hasn't been in the SEC since 2004 and he was never overly successful in the SEC even though he did take a terrible team and get them to at least average I guess.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

37 minutes ago, 1auburn1 said:

The Gus offense isn't the problem, it's that he lost out on recruiting the right QBs to run it.    Then he wasn't capable or willing to adapt to the talent he had on hand.   That said, the RPO is a lot more popular today than it was a few years ago so defenses are catching up to it.     You must be able to adapt your offense constantly if you want to be successful in Big Boy football.

And what kind of QB is that? Please don't say dual threat....

[DAG 34,003]

3 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

And what kind of QB is that? Please don't say dual threat....

He needs a dynamic QB. It has been validated now . Doesn't necessarily have to be a true DT in the sense.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

Just now, DAG said:

He needs a dynamic QB. It has been validated now . Doesn't necessarily have to be a true DT in the sense.

This is where you get to arguing semantics, I'd argue every coach in the nation needs a dynamic QB to be at the top. I'd argue that a dynamic QB isn't enough. To be Championship material you need a dynamic player in every skill group. That's where we were in 2010 and 2013. But I'll agree that QB has the biggest impact

[DAG 34,003]

Just now, JBiGGiE said:

This is where you get to arguing semantics, I'd argue every coach in the nation needs a dynamic QB to be at the top. I'd argue that a dynamic QB isn't enough. To be Championship material you need a dynamic player in every skill group. That's where we were in 2010 and 2013. But I'll agree that QB has the biggest impact

By dynamic I mean athletic. There you go. No semantics needed.

[AUIH1 1,515]

3 hours ago, TigerOne said:

uat has destroyed the sec. They get to play by their on rules, their poison has infiltrated the sec offices, the ncaa, and politics.

When you get your people in positions of power the rest will suffer. You could see this coming 5 years ago.

And the other schools let it happen, so not sorry to see the conference suck, when it turned on Auburn during Cam's

year and ignored uat blatant cheating they sealed the deal.

BS.  Give spuat credit for hiring the best overall coach in college football. spuat has been the same since Bear in terms of influence.  Perkins, Stallings, Dubose and Shula all had the same so-called advantages that Saban has.

I am a Tuberville supporter, but when I heard with my own ears, Tuberville (right after Saban was hired) tell a group of people including Pat Dye that he wasn't worried about Saban because the State of Alabama was different from Louisiana because in terms of recruiting because we were in the the state with spuat versus LSU who had no competition, I believed we were screwed.  CTT did not get it in terms of how good and driven Saban was/is.

 

 

wde

[IronMan70 3,277]

If you consider the talent on our team and the status of other SEC teams, I do know one thing. If there was ever a good year for Auburn to make a nice run this would be the year. Fingers crossed here. 

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

9 hours ago, DAG said:

How many threads are you going to make about not liking CGM? I mean my god I am not happy with Gus, but I hope we start winning conventionally again so we can get back to talking football. I almost miss poor @lionheartkc and his takes because at the very least we could still talk some football with debateable points. 

Btw, the talent we recruit obviously likes the idea of playing in a non-traditional offense. The issue is being adaptive not necessarily the offense . CGM for some odd reason lost his creativity after the NM years. The principles he ran in 2007 with Chris Todd have completely went dormant for the QB read that he loves. The problem with the QB read first option is you need a dynamic player back there. If you don't have that , it implodes. I am still going to give CCL a chance to see what he can do, as he was clearly handicapped the first two games.

Another point. This gimmick offense did help us get to two NCs and yes I know the personell was helpful with that. However, I seriously doubt that would've been the case had we been running a traditional offense . Also, if you may, I can't remember the last team who beat Bama running a traditional offense. Maybe LSU back during the game of the century, but a large portion of their losses under Saban occurred against teams with non-traditional offenses. 

Hey DAG.  It's real simple.  Just ignore it or don't read it.  I was trying to talk about the quality of coaches in the SEC being down as a correlation between how much weaker the conference is today.  No I do not like Gus.  I apologize that my post went into the style of offense he runs.  I hope it did not hurt your eyes.  Let me know if I can do anything to help you okay little buddy.

[DAG 34,003]

2 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

Hey DAG.  It's real simple.  Just ignore it or don't read it.  I was trying to talk about the quality of coaches in the SEC being down as a correlation between how much weaker the conference is today.  No I do not like Gus.  I apologize that my post went into the style of offense he runs.  I hope it did not hurt your eyes.  Let me know if I can do anything to help you okay little buddy.

And it turned into you WHINING about CGM. Here, it is really simple. We know you HATE CGM. You don't have to make new threads, writing a dissertation about it every week. Moreover, if you are going to write a dissertation, at least bring valuable points.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

And it turned into you bitching about CGM. 

Nope.  Please reread.  It turned into the style of offense we have tried to run since CTT's last years.  Yes Gus is a part of that.  The only mention of Gus is not liking the stupid cute plays he tries to run.

[Newbomb 193]

1 hour ago, AUIH1 said:

BS.  Give spuat credit for hiring the best overall coach in college football. spuat has been the same since Bear in terms of influence.  Perkins, Stallings, Dubose and Shula all had the same so-called advantages that Saban has.

I am a Tuberville supporter, but when I heard with my own ears, Tuberville (right after Saban was hired) tell a group of people including Pat Dye that he wasn't worried about Saban because the State of Alabama was different from Louisiana because in terms of recruiting because we were in the the state with spuat versus LSU who had no competition, I believed we were screwed.  CTT did not get it in terms of how good and driven Saban was/is.

 

 

wde

You have a call waiting at T-Town Mensware.  I think it might be about a set of rims.

[DAG 34,003]

1 minute ago, NorthGATiger said:

Nope.  Please reread.  It turned into the style of offense we have tried to run since CTT's last years.  Yes Gus is a part of that.  The only mention of Gus is not liking the stupid cute plays he tries to run.

 

12 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

We need a coach that isn't lost if he does not have the one special player to make his system work.

 

12 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

Take Auburn out of the equation because Gus has trended downward since 2013.

 

8 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

I was trying to talk about the quality of coaches in the SEC being down as a correlation between how much weaker the conference is today. 

Now is this about the SEC being down because of Coaching or about CGM?

[AU64 10,122]

4 hours ago, 1auburn1 said:

The Gus offense isn't the problem, it's that he lost out on recruiting the right QBs to run it.    Then he wasn't capable or willing to adapt to the talent he had on hand.   That said, the RPO is a lot more popular today than it was a few years ago so defenses are catching up to it.     You must be able to adapt your offense constantly if you want to be successful in Big Boy football.

Rules caught up with RPO on the issue of lineman down field.   JMO but that rule change and emphasis by refs has nullified most of its advantages of RPO..

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

2 hours ago, DAG said:

 

 

 

Now is this about the SEC being down because of Coaching or about CGM?

Not using Gus since he has been here for 5 years and is trending down was to take him out of the equation on coaches with the most tenure being better.  Gus trending down since 2013 is a fact not an opinion.

Yes I would like the next coach and or offense to not need a once in a decade type of player at QB to be successful.  You must agree with me if you are attaching that thought to me hating on Gus.  It's a statement.

If we perform better this weekend against the 97th rated rushing defense in the country you will see less of the realist on here and more warm beautiful rays of sunshine.  Some people come on here to vent and voice their frustrations.  I enjoy this board, it's great information, and all of the posters here.  I use this board at times to vent and talk about football.  In life or behind this keyboard I call it as I see it.  I don't make excuses or put a ribbon on a goats ass and call it pretty.  I also won't demean someone who has a different point of view that I don't agree with.  To each his own.  That's why we have this board for discussions of these types of things. 

[Linayus 676]

Purdue is successful if you consider beating Mizzou a big win. They were competitive against Louisville's awful defense but what else have they done? They went 3-9 last year and I highly doubt they have a turnaround like we did after 2012. Not a very good example of a good coach but we'll see how the rest of their season goes.

Saban and what he is doing with Alabama makes every coach in the NCAA look mediocre regardless of their style of offense. He's just that good. Unfortunately, that does lead to some absurd decisions about the coaching staff when they fail to beat Bama each year (since the only teams that have beat them had all-star talent at the QB position).

I think the QB play (and overall defense) is still what is holding the SEC back. Even Bama with Jalen Hurts shows how an average QB won't cut it these days even with a great defense.

[NorthGATiger 1,801]

19 minutes ago, Linayus said:

Purdue is successful if you consider beating Mizzou a big win. They were competitive against Louisville's awful defense but what else have they done? They went 3-9 last year and I highly doubt they have a turnaround like we did after 2012. Not a very good example of a good coach but we'll see how the rest of their season goes.

Saban and what he is doing with Alabama makes every coach in the NCAA look mediocre regardless of their style of offense. He's just that good. Unfortunately, that does lead to some absurd decisions about the coaching staff when they fail to beat Bama each year (since the only teams that have beat them had all-star talent at the QB position).

I think the QB play (and overall defense) is still what is holding the SEC back. Even Bama with Jalen Hurts shows how an average QB won't cut it these days even with a great defense.

Purdue has been horrible since Drew Brees was there.  What he has that team looking like is very impressive to me.

[Gowebb11 9,352]

8 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

I think the QB play (and overall defense) is still what is holding the SEC back. Even Bama with Jalen Hurts shows how an average QB won't cut it these days even with a great defense.

Great QB play does elevate a conference. But there is more parity than ever.  Some of it is math. Population growth far exceeds FBS team growth so there are more players to go around.  More high schools have advanced strength and development programs. More colleges have tricked out Weight rooms, training tables, strength programs, etc....AU used to sell being on TV more than teams like Ole Miss and Miss St. now everyone in the power 5 is on every weekend. Also, the digital age means no secrets anymore.  Schemes and systems can be figured out and overcome quicker now.  All of this leads to more parity.  8-4 is becoming the new 10-2. I don't like it but it is what it is. 

[keesler 5,928]

5 hours ago, AUIH1 said:

BS.  Give spuat credit for hiring the best overall coach in college football. spuat has been the same since Bear in terms of influence.  Perkins, Stallings, Dubose and Shula all had the same so-called advantages that Saban has.

I am a Tuberville supporter, but when I heard with my own ears, Tuberville (right after Saban was hired) tell a group of people including Pat Dye that he wasn't worried about Saban because the State of Alabama was different from Louisiana because in terms of recruiting because we were in the the state with spuat versus LSU who had no competition, I believed we were screwed.  CTT did not get it in terms of how good and driven Saban was/is.

 

 

wde

Tommy underestimated Nick for sure. NS told Mal Moore that he was getting a horse***t football coach, but he was also getting a recruiter like none other.  

Ends up Tommy was viewing recruiting in a tunnel (in-state at LA & AL) when in reality over half of uat's roster are OOS guys from coast to coast and North to South.  

[creed 1,642]

I believe Saban being able to win a game when the rosters are evenly matched can be debated. As I remember from past discussons some experts don't consider him a great game day coach and he mainly wins on a talent rich roster. As mentioned all this can be debated.