The SEC

[Beaker 2,457]

I don't want to get bashed here and I am not trying to split hairs.....

What is Gus' system?   I honestly don't understand what we are doing anymore.

I know if 2010 there were some key things that created advantages:

• HUNH as we progressed down the field and it wasn't every down.  There seemed to some timing to it.  
• Play count was HUGE - we get 70 plays, we had a HUGE advantage.   I remember that line and Gus said it.
• Passes were mostly to the sidelines, lower risk and we used the TE selectively well
• Jet sweep was a threat, not a homerun threat, but we gave it to them 1-4 times per game.
• we swapped out RBs here and there
• We didn't have a lot of QB designed runs, some, but not many.   Cam was a freak and carried the O when it was needed.

2013 had many of the same trademarks.

What was last year or is this year's trademarks?  I don't know what Gus' philosophy is anymore.  And not sure his system is creating any advantages.  

Serious question.  

 

If Gus must have a Cam Newton or Nick Marshall type to be successful, we need a new coach.  Those kinds of talents don't fall into your lap every season.

[LakeBum 187]

11 minutes ago, Beaker said:

What is Gus' system?

 

I was under the impression we were now running Chip's offense and Steele's defense.  Much like when CGC was head coach, we ran Gus's offense.

[1auburn1 1,120]

6 hours ago, JBiGGiE said:

And what kind of QB is that? Please don't say dual threat....

Ok, how about a QB that runs so well that you can design running plays to intentionally allow him to be a primary ball carrier.    Oh, and he needs to be able to be reasonably accurate throwing as well.      I would call that a "dual-threat".     Cam and Nick would fell into that category.   SW and JJ did not.     JS might fall into that category but we can't afford to run him much now.   The point being that since Gus moved to Auburn, his best offenses had that feature and could put pressure on elite defenses enough to win.    If he backs out of the sideline meddling, maybe CCL can get a true passing game going.    Gus doesn't have that in him anymore.    That's my point.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Do we even care about play counts anymore? I haven't heard.

When we get Gatewood, Gus needs to be running the offense. That's his niche. 

[Beaker 2,457]

1 hour ago, LakeBum said:

I was under the impression we were now running Chip's offense and Steele's defense.  Much like when CGC was head coach, we ran Gus's offense.

Sure....I guess.   But what does Gus' system look like?  What was it last year?   

My underlying point is the innovative system Gus had when he arrived in 2009 and used through 2014 (?)  was unique and created many advantages.  Heck Saban and Beliema were crying about rule changes...remember?  

We haven't created any unique advantage in 3 yrs that I am seeing.  We have really migrated away from the basics of that system and I am not sure we should have abandoned all of it.   

[OnthePlains 2,014]

12 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Sure....I guess.   But what does Gus' system look like?  What was it last year?   

My underlying point is the innovative system Gus had when he arrived in 2009 and used through 2014 (?)  was unique and created many advantages.  Heck Saban and Beliema were crying about rule changes...remember?  

We haven't created any unique advantage in 3 yrs that I am seeing.  We have really migrated away from the basics of that system and I am not sure we should have abandoned all of it.   

This is the most baffling thing to me.  People keep saying Gus's offense won't work without a true running QB but prior to Cam Gus took an offense and built it around Chris freaking Todd.  Todd couldn't run to save his life but Gus built an effective offense around the guy.  In fact, in 2009 if we had any defense at all that team would've surprised some folks as we nearly beat bama even with our bad defense.  I can't figure out what Gus changed or didn't change in the last few years that has made him so stubborn and his play calling so predictable. 

[AURex 2,057]

Sorry to be too obvious, but we tend to forget that a major role of coaching is not just teaching technique or plotting plays, but recruitment. (1) Blah, recruiting makes a difference, and Bama has recruited better than any other program for years and years. (2)  See #1. (3) A few teams in other conferences have recruited better than non-Bama teams. That includes OSU, UMich, Okla, FSU and Clemson. Those teams have all recruited better than Auburn. (I'm not talking spurious "rankings," I'm talking actual game-day talent). (5) No amount of coaching will overcome complete team talent superiority. Occasionally, one very ultra talent (Cam Newton) will overcome superior team-wide talent in one game.

But fact is, Auburn just doesn't have the offensive talent, and no amount of "coaching up" is going to "fix" that.

Just my opinion.

[Beaker 2,457]

3 minutes ago, AURex said:

Sorry to be too obvious, but we tend to forget that a major role of coaching is not just teaching technique or plotting plays, but recruitment. (1) Blah, recruiting makes a difference, and Bama has recruited better than any other program for years and years. (2)  See #1. (3) A few teams in other conferences have recruited better than non-Bama teams. That includes OSU, UMich, Okla, FSU and Clemson. Those teams have all recruited better than Auburn. (I'm not talking spurious "rankings," I'm talking actual game-day talent). (5) No amount of coaching will overcome complete team talent superiority. Occasionally, one very ultra talent (Cam Newton) will overcome superior team-wide talent in one game.

But fact is, Auburn just doesn't have the offensive talent, and no amount of "coaching up" is going to "fix" that.

Just my opinion.

You are mostly right, but scheme or system can be a great equalizer.  When we ran the HUNH and were targeting like 70 plays, we were gassing better defensive fronts.  Heck, on our 2nd Clemson drive those DL men were gassed.  had we ran uptempo or HUNH every other 1st down or ???  We would have created an advantage.  Remember Saban and Beliema both were wanting rule changes.  Cam was a generational player, but scheme was huge.

 

[AURex 2,057]

49 minutes ago, Beaker said:

You are mostly right, but scheme or system can be a great equalizer.  When we ran the HUNH and were targeting like 70 plays, we were gassing better defensive fronts.  Heck, on our 2nd Clemson drive those DL men were gassed.  had we ran uptempo or HUNH every other 1st down or ???  We would have created an advantage.  Remember Saban and Beliema both were wanting rule changes.  Cam was a generational player, but scheme was huge.

 

Well, that was year 1, when defensive coordinators had not seen the scheme before. By year 2, they had adjusted pretty well. By year 3, the scheme was nothing new or unusual and DCs throughout the inference knew how to defend it. Just like the wishbone or the west coast spread, it works for a short time, until DCs figure it out. Then it's back to the same ole same ole. Talent vs talent.

The Gus scheme is no longer scaring any DC. And Auburn's offensive line and WRs are just not up to the task of competing against the best SEC defenses.

Hey, I'm an Auburn grad and fan for 40 years. I am not part of the anti-Gus league on this board. But I am a realist. Auburn is going t have to step up recruiting on offense to equal the amazing talent level on defense.

 

[AUloggerhead 2,269]

7 hours ago, Linayus said:

Purdue is successful if you consider beating Mizzou a big win. They were competitive against Louisville's awful defense but what else have they done? They went 3-9 last year and I highly doubt they have a turnaround like we did after 2012. Not a very good example of a good coach but we'll see how the rest of their season goes.

 

Jeff Brohm wasn't coaching Purdue last year so the 3-9 record you mentioned is irrelevant.  The fact is Purdue has been a Big10 bottom-feeder for years -- no one is going to mistake the talent currently assembled there for football factories like at tOSU & Michigan.  The man knows offense.  Rather than overall won-loss record, I'll be looking to see how well he scores against Big10 competition with what he's inherited there at Purdue.  I don't think he'll be at Purdue beyond this season. 

[Eagle-1 3,821]

29 minutes ago, AUloggerhead said:

Jeff Brohm wasn't coaching Purdue last year so the 3-9 record you mentioned is irrelevant.  The fact is Purdue has been a Big10 bottom-feeder for years -- no one is going to mistake the talent currently assembled there for football factories like at tOSU & Michigan.  The man knows offense.  Rather than overall won-loss record, I'll be looking to see how well he scores against Big10 competition with what he's inherited there at Purdue.  I don't think he'll be at Purdue beyond this season. 

Brohm is a future 5 star coach, and I mean real soon too. MMW.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,819]

Yeah the SEC is atrocious at every level just about. Front offices making hires that haven't panned out (Missouri, Arky, Auburn, IDK abt UGA, LSU, Tennessee, etc). The QB play was supposed to hit a crescendo but so far Stidham has incredibly underwhelmed, Franks might have some potential, Hurts has gotten marginally better, UGA might have the top two prospects in conference?, Mullen has found another Dak, Kellen Monde is a great value's great value Dak, Etling is horrible, but LSU's talented log of backups should be getting time soon, and Shea Patterson will be literally wasting away on the back to feeder-level Ole Miss. The Arkansas meme of having unnaturally good QBs seems to have also faltered 

 

The biggest issues for the name brand programs in the SEC that made awful hires was that they either waited too long to fire their coaches or when they did fire them, were more willing to rest on their laurels instead of getting a splash hire. The verdict is also still out on Florida and snaggle-tooth, he's owned UGA, but is a half decent UT coach away from being the first Florida coach to get annually owned by the Vols, he can't touch Alabama or Florida State, and doesn't win the state recruiting wise, or even come close. 

[ToomersStreet 795]

On 9/20/2017 at 10:42 AM, AUIH1 said:

BS.  Give spuat credit for hiring the best overall coach in college football. spuat has been the same since Bear in terms of influence.  Perkins, Stallings, Dubose and Shula all had the same so-called advantages that Saban has.

I am a Tuberville supporter, but when I heard with my own ears, Tuberville (right after Saban was hired) tell a group of people including Pat Dye that he wasn't worried about Saban because the State of Alabama was different from Louisiana because in terms of recruiting because we were in the the state with spuat versus LSU who had no competition, I believed we were screwed.  CTT did not get it in terms of how good and driven Saban was/is.

 

 

wde

Tuberville became a lazy recruiter his last few years at Auburn.   He was literally going head to head with South Florida, Central Florida, and Marshal on the recruiting trail. And on occasion would lose recruits to them because he woudn't bother to follow up  for two or  three months.

[GwillMac6 20,797]

On 9/20/2017 at 9:13 PM, AURex said:

Sorry to be too obvious, but we tend to forget that a major role of coaching is not just teaching technique or plotting plays, but recruitment. (1) Blah, recruiting makes a difference, and Bama has recruited better than any other program for years and years. (2)  See #1. (3) A few teams in other conferences have recruited better than non-Bama teams. That includes OSU, UMich, Okla, FSU and Clemson. Those teams have all recruited better than Auburn. (I'm not talking spurious "rankings," I'm talking actual game-day talent). (5) No amount of coaching will overcome complete team talent superiority. Occasionally, one very ultra talent (Cam Newton) will overcome superior team-wide talent in one game.

But fact is, Auburn just doesn't have the offensive talent, and no amount of "coaching up" is going to "fix" that.

Just my opinion.

Auburn has recruited just fine on the offensive side of the ball. If we had a coach who get get the most out of said talent we would not be having this discussion. What do NCM, Kyle Davis, Ryan Davis and Darius Slayton all have in common? They were all 4 star recruits. We are not putting them in the best position to succeed. Our whole offensive starting line are 4 star recruits  or above besides horton. That clemson game exposed so many of the flaws and weaknesses in the "system" gus wants to run having all guys run slow developing deep routes when we are playing the best DL in the country and our OL is getting worked. If we want to have any chance on a good season we need to let Chip run his system which is a more balance attack and the passing game is more sophisticated with more diverse route combinations. Recruiting is not the problem. Talent is not the problem. It is the offensive coaching. That falls on Gus.

[GwillMac6 20,797]

We have not had a passer like Stidham who can make all the throws with accuracy since Jason Campbell maybe during his senior year? The kid has a NFL arm. When he has time it is a thing of beauty watching him work. Stidham would be taken by Mike Gundy, Mike Leach, Petrino, Dabo etc. and be molded in to a 4k passer. He absolutely has the talent and skill set to win big at the college level and put up monster stats. Unfortunately for the kid Auburn under Gus was probaly not the best place for him to go with his skill set. Good coaches adapt the system to their players. What Petrino is running now with Lamar he has NEVER run before. But Petrino is a great offensive coach and therefore adapted properly and that offense has flourished. In the meantime he has made Lamar in to a better more accurate passer from the pocket. It is on Gus to make stidham work. This should be a pass first team. The run/pass ratio we saw vs mercer is one we should use the rest of the season to give us the best chance to win. 

[AUpreacherman22 3,892]

Wait. Did you seriously say Houston Nutt is/was a good football coach?  

Just checking. 

[Beaker 2,457]

On 9/22/2017 at 2:33 AM, GwillMac6 said:

FACTS:

On 9/22/2017 at 2:39 AM, GwillMac6 said:

Stidham: The kid has a NFL arm.  Stidham would be taken by Mike Gundy, Mike Leach, Petrino, Dabo etc. and be molded in to a 4k passer. He absolutely has the talent and skill set to win big.  Good coaches adapt the system to their players.  It is on Gus to make stidham work. 

   Auburn has recruited just fine on the offensive side of the ball. If we had a coach who get get the most out of said talent we would not be having this discussion. What do NCM, Kyle Davis, Ryan Davis and Darius Slayton all have in common? They were all 4 star recruits.  Our whole offensive starting line are 4 star recruits  or above besides horton. That clemson game exposed so many of the flaws and weaknesses in the "system" gus wants to run.  Talent is not the problem. It is the offensive coaching. That falls on Gus.

Gwill hit the nail on the head.  In the SEC, I think only the turds have more talent.  

My son asked if Gus could get fired if we win 9 games.  Good question.   I think it is inherent on Gus or Gus' staff to use Stidham's talent and develop a system to use him (and develop Stidham).  There is no question there were a lot of "questionable" things going on the past 2-3 yrs on O.

Consider our D- they have kept us in games and given us a chance to win and that looks like they will be a top 10 D again this year.  The D is developing our talent and developing effective schemes.  We are not scratching our heads each week asking 10 unanswerable questions about the D.

We are not short on talent!  

[GwillMac6 20,797]

1 hour ago, Beaker said:

Gwill hit the nail on the head.  In the SEC, I think only the turds have more talent.  

My son asked if Gus could get fired if we win 9 games.  Good question.   I think it is inherent on Gus or Gus' staff to use Stidham's talent and develop a system to use him (and develop Stidham).  There is no question there were a lot of "questionable" things going on the past 2-3 yrs on O.

Consider our D- they have kept us in games and given us a chance to win and that looks like they will be a top 10 D again this year.  The D is developing our talent and developing effective schemes.  We are not scratching our heads each week asking 10 unanswerable questions about the D.

We are not short on talent!  

If he does not beat 1 of georgia or bama this year he is gone imo. I do not think it matters if he goes 9-3. If the losses are to clemson, georgia and bama he is toast. That would be 4 straight years of losses to our 2 biggest rivals.

[aubaseball 2,677]

^^^^^this will never happen.   9-3 and you fire the coach????that might be the dumbest thing ever said

[aujeff11 6,243]

The SEC is still the premier football conference. 

 

Horse hockey

 

Thank God for Bama Right!!

 

[Beaker 2,457]

46 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

^^^^^this will never happen.   9-3 and you fire the coach????that might be the dumbest thing ever said

So that's the only thing you consider?  9-3  if you lose to UGA, bama every year and say LSU more than half the time, you're cool with that?  

That's cool.  We see things differently.  I must be dumb and I want more.  FWIW, you will never get to Atlanta losing 2 conference games and I am not cool with that.  I am not cool losing most of our big games (Clemson, OU, bama, UGA, LSU and 1-3 in bowl games.). I am not trying to convince anyone.  That's my opinion and I dont want a participation trophy every year.  

my point was:  the offensive players must be developed:  the O is stacked with talent (WR, O Line, QB) and if we don't take a step forward, regardless of record...dot dot dot. 

[AURex 2,057]

On 9/20/2017 at 8:06 AM, TigerOne said:

They get to play by their on rules

 

Damn. That means we gotta play by the off rules?

"When you think everything is someone else's fault, you will suffer a lot." – Dalai Lama

Quit trying to blame everything on Bama. We need to take responsibility for our own situation. We own our destiny. Like it or not, Malzahn charts his own course. He does the best he can, recruiting against the Capstone. We (as fans) live with the results.

As for the rest of the SEC. We need to quit looking for excuses. The south has the best talent base in the country. But ya know what? Some coaches with only a FEW year on staff have done much better than SEC coaches with only a few years on staff. Hate him or not, Harbaugh has done a great job at Michigan. Franklin has done a great job at Penn State despite their probationary issues. Meyers has done a great job at tOSU.  Malzahn, Muschamp, Sumlin, Orgeron, McElwain  ..... it's not the number of years on staff, it's not the recruiting, and it's not the "competition": week to week in the SEC.

This is not about Bama. It's about our own house. You step up and take ownership and overcome (as Harbauigh has done at Mich and Petersen has done at U Washington and Franklin at Vandy and then Penn State), or you make excuses.

I'm tired of excuses. Time to step up and succeed or else. It's not about anybody else. Just do it.

 

 

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, Beaker said:

So that's the only thing you consider?  9-3  if you lose to UGA, bama every year and say LSU more than half the time, you're cool with that?  

That's cool.  We see things differently.  I must be dumb and I want more.  FWIW, you will never get to Atlanta losing 2 conference games and I am not cool with that.  I am not cool losing most of our big games (Clemson, OU, bama, UGA, LSU and 1-3 in bowl games.). I am not trying to convince anyone.  That's my opinion and I dont want a participation trophy every year.  

my point was:  the offensive players must be developed:  the O is stacked with talent (WR, O Line, QB) and if we don't take a step forward, regardless of record...dot dot dot. 

I guess my question is if we go 9-3, losing to Clemson, UGA, and Bama, and then we fire our HC, where do we go from there? What HC wants to know 9-3 isn’t good enough to hold onto the job or good enough to keep the fanbase content? 

Who do we go after then? And is it automatically assumed that the next coach will be an upgrade? 

[DKW 86 7,485]

On 9/20/2017 at 4:08 PM, creed said:

I believe Saban being able to win a game when the rosters are evenly matched can be debated. As I remember from past discussons some experts don't consider him a great game day coach and he mainly wins on a talent rich roster. As mentioned all this can be debated.

Sabans last real come from behind win was at MSU believe it or not. Spurrier was never worried about Saban and pantsed him the last time they played. CSS stated after the game that Saban really doesnt make adjustments. Most teams just wear down to Alabama's depth. If Saban is evenly matched, he usually loses. He HAS to out recruit everyone to win. This he does by a mile year in and year out. His concept is THE PROCESS. He puts his team out there with the best talent, in the most likely to win scenarios, with the statistically highest winning probability choice at just about everything he does. Give the devil his due, CNS is without a doubt the hardest working, most consistent coach we have ever seen. He is soon going to pass Bear in MNCs and many other respects.

[jAUSon 2,836]

Seems like all the front offices in the conference are trying to tread water, wait for Nick to have that last cigarrette, except for the ones that blew their load breathlessly hiring his assistants. Coaching in the sec is down. Good point made by the OP.