World Cup 2018

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

Numerically we have far more youth kicking around soccer balls daily than a soccer power like Uruguay. Their percentage of kids doing so is higher but as far as quality development, we are internationally competitive at every level until about age 17. Historically, we are NOT the new kids on the block. Soccer in the US was widely played and internationally successful before 1954 and has been since 1989. 35 year sabbatical. True soccer is down the US sport popularity list but the "we're catching up to the rest of the world" went out the window long ago. I think these myths are perpetuated by a US sports media that doesn't like (or know jack about) the game, combined with our national frustration with having phenomenal athletes (as a country) yet only achieving rare air in the worlds most popular sport internationally in 2002, 1994 , 1950& 1930. Not counting simply getting into the WC 10 times as rare air - which it arguably is. Of course the WC is only played every 4 years. With all humility - having played, coached and reffed for decades at pretty high levels in the US - IMHO by far the biggest problem holding back US soccer development back is US Soccer leadership chronically assumes the international model is the best here too and americanizing it (notwithstanding our women's national team program success) is heresy.  Go Ernie Go!

[mustache eagle 2,398]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I "liked" this post but it's actually pretty upsetting. I almost hope my kid isn't super interested and/or talented enough to play club ball because it feels like such a racket now. 

My nephew didn't make his club team, so he's just going to play indoor. I bet he and his parents will both be generally happier about it all. 

As an example related to your nephew ...

My second daughter is 15.  She took 2 years off from soccer and tried out last year.  She barely made the 3 team (as a matter of fact, she may have not made any team had I not called them).  The club did a bad job with that team (long story) and they stuck her out on an island in the offensive end with very little instruction and support nor was the team taught how to play good team soccer.  My daughter was offered the opportunity to play "up" on the third team at the next age bracket up, a few times in the second half of the season.  The older kids accepted her more readily and her soccer experience was better on the older team.  She scored goals and had fun.

She ended up playing high school soccer on the JV team for a 7A school and led the team in scoring.  scored nearly 15 goals - including some sweet volley and half volley goals that her older sister could never dream of doing (yes, this is full on dad bragging).

BTW, the "offer" to play up was as much about dumping her on another team that didn't have enough kids to play some days.  That was an example of where our goals and the clubs goals matched up.  She found a group of kids and a coach that valued her, taught her, included her within the game and she played as an important member of the team ... and had lots of fun.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add ... my 15 year old could play 3 more years of club.  We are not giving club soccer another dime.  She will do as well as she can playing high school, assuming she will make the team.  She will probably be the only kid on the JV or Varsity team that will not play club soccer this fall.  We are lucky because she is a very good, fast athlete and has a crazy good attitude ... don't have any idea where she got any of that either.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, mustache eagle said:

You have to ask, why are your kids playing soccer?  You hit a point to where the only option to play decent soccer is "pay to play".  If you are willing to drop the money for your "third team" kid to play and they have fun, then awesome.  It just isn't worth the money, unless you have the disposable cash. 

Exactly. 

My sister played ODP. She did the whole thing. She got to go to Norway for a tournament. It worked out for her but that was almost 15 years ago. And it was evident then that she served the club and not the other way around.

I've got a few years. I hope that more opportunities arise for the kids who aren't future scholarship players. It's encouraging that my nephew is able to just go play indoor in Montgomery, AL. Already a much different world than it was for me in the 80s, that's for sure. 

[mustache eagle 2,398]

I'd be remiss if I didn't say that we did enjoy lots of the parents, kids and some of the coaches.  There are a few of the coaches that took a keen interest in my kids and I will be thankful for their personal attention.  We had lots of good memories related to club and ODP soccer, just not nearly as many related to the actual clubs themselves.  I didn't want the whole experience to come across negatively.  My oldest will go to Auburn this fall having made friends all over the state thanks to her time playing club soccer.  Every single high school game she played this year she knew kids on the other team.  She has lifelong friends from all over the place from soccer.

There are kids on the national teams she has played against also.  Will be fun to watch them also.  Ok, I've completely rambled on regarding this subject ... sorry!

[mustache eagle 2,398]

14 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

Numerically we have far more youth kicking around soccer balls daily than a soccer power like Uruguay. Their percentage of kids doing so is higher but as far as quality development, we are internationally competitive at every level until about age 17. Historically, we are NOT the new kids on the block. Soccer in the US was widely played and internationally successful before 1954 and has been since 1989. 35 ye sabbatical. True soccer is down the US sport popularity list but the "we're catching up to the rest of the world" went out the window long ago. I think these myths are perpetuated by a US sports media that doesn't like (or know jack about) the game, combined with our national frustration with having phenomenal athletes (as a country) yet only achieving rare air in the worlds most popular sport internationally in 2002, 1994 , 1950& 1930. If course the WC is only played every 4 years. With all humility - having played, coached and reffed for decades at pretty high levels in the US - IMHO by far the biggest problem holding back US soccer development back is US Soccer leadership chronically assumes the international model is the best here too and americanizing it (notwithstanding our women's national team program success) is heresy.  Go Ernie Go!

US soccer could be an absolute juggernaut ... if only someone or some group can fit all of the pieces together and harness the potential.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, mustache eagle said:

I'd be remiss if I didn't say that we did enjoy lots of the parents, kids and some of the coaches.  There are a few of the coaches that took a keen interest in my kids and I will be thankful for their personal attention.  We had lots of good memories related to club and ODP soccer, just not nearly as many related to the actual clubs themselves.  I didn't want the whole experience to come across negatively.  My oldest will go to Auburn this fall having made friends all over the state thanks to her time playing club soccer.  Every single high school game she played this year she knew kids on the other team.  She has lifelong friends from all over the place from soccer.

There are kids on the national teams she has played against also.  Will be fun to watch them also.  Ok, I've completely rambled on regarding this subject ... sorry!

No, thank you for your candor. And I'm a huge believer in the non-athletic benefits of playing team sports, some of which you mention above. Which makes the business aspect we've discussed that much more unfortunate. Like you said... it's all about the kid and you do what you gotta do. 

[augolf1716 21,109]

good discussion

[McLoofus 35,182]

Um, you can just watch a match and see that American players aren't as skilled as German, English, Spanish, French, Brazilian, Dutch, Italian, Agentine......

.....players.

Or you can look at the top players internationally. Hint: None of them are American. Zero. Pulisic is the closest thing to a true international star we've ever had. And, according to the first thing I clicked, he isn't even considered one of the top 50 players in the Bundesliga. We're talking about, by far, the best American player in the game today and probably the best we've ever produced.

The top player in the EPL this past season is Egyptian. You regularly see international stars from other African countries. Everyone in the world knows some dude from Uruguay bites people because he's one of the best players on the planet. The best player in the last World Cup was Columbian. There might be 2 dozen other countries who can claim a player better than our best.

We're good for 1 world class goalkeeper at any given time. Yay.

Leadership is also a problem but we're still very, very far behind the true soccer nations in terms of skill. A million kids kicking balls around isn't going to change that if they're not playing the sport at a high level and if they don't truly have a passion for it. 

(As far as popularity in terms of viewership, soccer is now pretty much level with baseball and they trail only football and basketball.)

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

18 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Um, you can just watch a match and see that American players aren't as skilled as German, English, Spanish, French, Brazilian, Dutch, Italian, Agentine......

.....players.

Or you can look at the top players internationally. Hint: None of them are American. Zero. Pulisic is the closest thing to a true international star we've ever had. And, according to the first thing I clicked, he isn't even considered one of the top 50 players in the Bundesliga. We're talking about, by far, the best American player in the game today and probably the best we've ever produced.

The top player in the EPL this past season is Egyptian. You regularly see international stars from other African countries. Everyone in the world knows some dude from Uruguay bites people because he's one of the best players on the planet. The best player in the last World Cup was Columbian. There might be 2 dozen other countries who can claim a player better than our best.

We're good for 1 world class goalkeeper at any given time. Yay.

Leadership is also a problem but we're still very, very far behind the true soccer nations in terms of skill. A million kids kicking balls around isn't going to change that if they're not playing the sport at a high level and if they don't truly have a passion for it. 

(As far as popularity in terms of viewership, soccer is now pretty much level with baseball and they trail only football and basketball.)

The 8 teams you listed - and most of the players on them - plus a half dozen more ARE virtually always better than the US. You know over 200 countries national teams play FIFA sanctioned international soccer yes? A dozen other countries are always on our level and the other 170 or so are on a level that has been consistently losing to the US mens national team for a long time. It's all relative, that's how upper tier is determined. Thank you for not dragging the crazy FIFA "world rankings" into it either, under that system a country can beat the Faroe Islands and Luxemburg and get huge points because those minnows get valued highly for being "European countries". Your argument is actually the same the US media uses to belittle MLS however - i.e. MLS is not the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga or Serie A. Neither are the domestic leagues in the rest of the world. 

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

23 hours ago, mustache eagle said:

US soccer could be an absolute juggernaut ... if only someone or some group can fit all of the pieces together and harness the potential.

Exactly!

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

Um, the 8 teams you listed - and most of the players on them - plus a half dozen more ARE virtually always better than the US. You know over 200 countries national teams play FISA sanctioned international soccer yes? A dozen other countries are always on our level and the other 170 or have been consistently losing to the US mens national team for a long time. It's all relative, that's how upper tier is determined. Don't drag the crazy FIFA "world rankings" into it either, under that system a country can beat the Faroe Islands and Luxemburg and get huge points because those minnows get valued highly for being "European countries". Your argument is actually the same the US media uses to belittle MLS - i.e. they aren't the Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga or Serie A. Neither are the domestic leagues in the rest of the world. 

I suppose I mistook your previous post. You said we're not still catching up with the rest of the world. I assumed you meant countries that are actually very good at soccer, and that you would have the US to be among them. I was clearly mistaken. You actually meant the Faroe Islands and Luxembourg when you said "the rest of the world". You're content to significantly trail 14 (by your count) other countries in the sport. I thought we were talking about how to become competitive with them. Apologies.

Great point about Faroe Islands and Luxembourg, btw. European points come so easy that the Netherlands failed to qualify for the World Cup. Meanwhile, we have to contend with the mighty and fearsome CONCACAF.

And feel free to call accurate observations "belittling". I call them accurate observations. I'm a huge MLS fan, especially since a team full of talented young South Americans with a magnificent South American coach came to Atlanta to play fun, attacking football. They didn't go after post-prime European names. They changed the sport in this country at the top in season 1. Almiron and Barco and a few others will get sold to European clubs for a lot of money and they'll stick there. Then Atlanta will find more up and coming talent to incubate and send on. It's good. Now we just need to change the sport at the roots. Another awesome thing in Atlanta was that they built a pitch next to the MARTA hub in downtown. Now inner-city kids hang out there and play ball or people ride the train from other neighborhoods to play there. It's been a huge success and they're going to build more. They're making soccer something that people can play anywhere, anytime, just like they do in true soccer cultures.

There's no reason we shouldn't be one of those cultures. We're headed in the right direction, but as long as it costs a million dollars a season for kids to play competitively, we're not going to go as far as we need to. Many of our best athletes will continue to be left out. We need other avenues early on. 

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

Yes we are headed in the right direction and your points are spot on re former US Soccer pres Gulati's insane pay-for-play youth club ideas of the last decade that are, fortunately, on the way out. It was his attempt IMO to exploit the fact that soccer in this country is mostly white collar ($) and was almost as ridiculous an idea as the US routinely between 1980 - 2000 playing critical world cup qualifier "home games" against Mexico in the Rose Bowl so 80k Mex fans would buy tix ($) and fund US Soccer.

Ay carumba!

[McLoofus 35,182]

TIME TO START THAT 2026 THREAD!!!!!

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

U.S. gets 60 matches, Canada & Mexico 10 each in 2026 WC. Good chance the World Cup will have been expanded to 48 (!) nations by then so chances will be good that a match...or 2 or 3...will be near you. Looks like Atlanta, KC, Pasadena, Philly, Boston, Baltimore, Cinci, Dallas, Denver, Houston, Miami, Nashville, NY, Orlando, San Fran, Seattle, & D.C. have been selected to host games. Birmingham & J'ville had their hosting bids rejected.

Anybody know if the U.S., Mexico and Canada as hosts ALL automatically qualify? 

[AUDub 11,147]

25 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

U.S. gets 60 matches, Canada & Mexico 10 each in 2026 WC. Good chance the World Cup will have been expanded to 48 (!) nations by then so chances will be good that a match...or 2 or 3...will be near you. Looks like Atlanta, KC, Pasadena, Philly, Boston, Baltimore, Cinci, Dallas, Denver, Houston, Miami, Nashville, NY, Orlando, San Fran, Seattle, & D.C. have been selected to host games. Birmingham & J'ville had their hosting bids rejected.

Anybody know if the U.S., Mexico and Canada as hosts ALL automatically qualify? 

Yes. All three automatically qualify.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Yes. All three automatically qualify.

Well that certainly doesn't hamper this

28 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

Good chance the World Cup will have been expanded to 48 (!) nations by then

 

[AUDub 11,147]

On 6/11/2018 at 11:10 AM, McLoofus said:

I "liked" this post but it's actually pretty upsetting. I almost hope my kid isn't super interested and/or talented enough to play club ball because it feels like such a racket now. 

My nephew didn't make his club team, so he's just going to play indoor. I bet he and his parents will both be generally happier about it all. 

We're entering the 3rd year of my middle child's time with TUSC right now. This was the first year she had to try out and, of course, made the 07 competitive team as a keeper. She ( and her mom and me) is still enjoying it for the time being. 

This year we start heavy duty travel though. Had the occasional tournament in Georgia during academy, but now we already have tournaments scheduled I'm Gatlinburg and Germantown TN, with more to be scheduled for the upcoming season. We'll see how she handles it. 

[mustache eagle 2,398]

2 hours ago, AUDub said:

We're entering the 3rd year of my middle child's time with TUSC right now. This was the first year she had to try out and, of course, made the 07 competitive team as a keeper. She ( and her mom and me) is still enjoying it for the time being. 

This year we start heavy duty travel though. Had the occasional tournament in Georgia during academy, but now we already have tournaments scheduled I'm Gatlinburg and Germantown TN, with more to be scheduled for the upcoming season. We'll see how she handles it. 

One thing I can tell you for sure ... if your daughter is a good keeper, she will be at the top of everyone's priority list.  Rare are the girls who like to play keeper and rarer still are the ones who stand apart.  FWIW, bless your heart being the parent of a keeper.  May I suggest never standing near the other parents during a game ... and wear headphones so you can make sure you never hear the other parents ...

Always liked the tournaments at the Mike Rose complex in Germantown/Collierville.  My kids probably played up there 10-ish times.  The Atlanta area tournaments I never really enjoyed.  Just so hectic to get over there and to get around ... and always hot!  Need any suggestions, let me know!  I didn't always stay at the team hotel.  As an example, the soccer tournaments south of Atlanta along I-75, I liked to stay in Fayetteville.  Old hotel on the square.  Best part of the tournaments was the windshield time with my daughters.  I've never heard a dad say they spent too much time with their daughters.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, mustache eagle said:

Best part of the tournaments was the windshield time with my daughters.  I've never heard a dad say they spent too much time with their daughters.

Sooooooo true. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

If y'all do podcasts and haven't already, check out 'American Fiasco'. Rog Bennett from Men in Blazers discussing the '98 World Cup. 

[AUDub 11,147]

4 minutes ago, mustache eagle said:

One thing I can tell you for sure ... if your daughter is a good keeper, she will be at the top of everyone's priority list.  Rare are the girls who like to play keeper and rarer still are the ones who stand apart.  FWIW, bless your heart being the parent of a keeper.  May I suggest never standing near the other parents during a game ... and wear headphones so you can make sure you never hear the other parents ... 

I played keeper for a decade through high school, so that's pretty much where I coached her since we signed her up. First two seasons, she was just sort of a utility player, mostly LW and LB, while she learned the game. She took over as the starting keeper midway through fall of last year, and started every meaningful game there this past spring.

They didn't focus on goalkeeping at the academy. Like, at all. Practically all of her coaching came from me. She's camped a few times. UAB's goalkeeping coach did a bang up job in that regard.

4 minutes ago, mustache eagle said:

Always liked the tournaments at the Mike Rose complex in Germantown/Collierville.  My kids probably played up there 10-ish times.  The Atlanta area tournaments I never really enjoyed.  Just so hectic to get over there and to get around ... and always hot!  Need any suggestions, let me know!  I didn't always stay at the team hotel.  As an example, the soccer tournaments south of Atlanta along I-75, I liked to stay in Fayetteville.  Old hotel on the square.

The tournament back in December was in Gainesville GA. About a 2:30hr drive. I'm sure I'm about to get very familiar with the southeast and will reach out to you if we go somewhere y'all have been lol.

4 minutes ago, mustache eagle said:

 Best part of the tournaments was the windshield time with my daughters.  I've never heard a dad say they spent too much time with their daughters.

That 2:30 hour drive was the best part of the tournament for me. Momma stayed home with the baby and her other two sissies. We had a ton of fun.

[mustache eagle 2,398]

5 hours ago, aucanucktiger said:

U.S. gets 60 matches, Canada & Mexico 10 each in 2026 WC. Good chance the World Cup will have been expanded to 48 (!) nations by then so chances will be good that a match...or 2 or 3...will be near you. Looks like Atlanta, KC, Pasadena, Philly, Boston, Baltimore, Cinci, Dallas, Denver, Houston, Miami, Nashville, NY, Orlando, San Fran, Seattle, & D.C. have been selected to host games. Birmingham & J'ville had their hosting bids rejected.

Anybody know if the U.S., Mexico and Canada as hosts ALL automatically qualify? 

That will be fun.  really really really hope the US can put together a quality team and make a run deep into the tournament.  We went to a irish pub/sports bar in Fairhope and watched one of the USMNT games in 2014 World Cup and had an absolute blast.  Had never watched a soccer game in that environment before ... made me think how fun it would be to watch a game at a legit "soccer" bar.

[McLoofus 35,182]

48 minutes ago, mustache eagle said:

That will be fun.  really really really hope the US can put together a quality team and make a run deep into the tournament.  We went to a irish pub/sports bar in Fairhope and watched one of the USMNT games in 2014 World Cup and had an absolute blast.  Had never watched a soccer game in that environment before ... made me think how fun it would be to watch a game at a legit "soccer" bar.

Midway Pub in EAV, Atlanta. I have several friends in this picture. Slow beers, physical discomfort (particularly for the claustrophobes) and sheer, unadulterated joy. 

[AUDub 11,147]

58 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Midway Pub in EAV, Atlanta. I have several friends in this picture. Slow beers, physical discomfort (particularly for the claustrophobes) and sheer, unadulterated joy. 

Good People is the official meeting place of the Birmingham chapter of the American Outlaws. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Good People is the official meeting place of the Birmingham chapter of the American Outlaws. 

I honestly don't know if AO has one official place in Atlanta. The bar in the picture is one of the two soccer bars in my old neighborhood. The other one is an Arsenal bar but obviously still draws big crowds for the usmnt matches. Fortunately life goes on as EPL has been extremely popular for years now and Atlanta United have supplanted usmnt as the most popular team in town.

Love to hear that about good people, though. Auburn>beer>soccer cross over? Sure!

These poor bar owners. They'll still make a little extra this month but nothing like they would have if the Americans were playing.