Xs and Os question: 2010 offense vs/plus 2017 offense

[McLoofus 35,182]

How much different are the playbook/philosophy/concepts for the OL between the 2010 offense and the 2017 offense? How much overlap is there?

Just curious if it's realistic for this team to be able to run both depending on who's at QB. Even if the concepts are way different for the other skill players, it seems like we're deep enough- or at least have the numbers- to platoon them if necessary. 

Probably too many logistical issues, particularly with adequately repping two young QBs, and I've been as critical as anyone of Gus's inability to decide on an identity and go with it. But these are two fully formed identities that he's already had great success with. 

We don't have Cam, but there's probably more talent around these QBs than that Cam had. We don't have KJ, but we've got a ton more depth at RB than that 2017 team had. 

And yes, this is totally the football message board equivalent of me playing with my GI Joe action figures. Football, please get here. 

 

 

 

[Win4AU 4,052]

2009 vs 2010 might be a better example.  2017 while similar to a Gus offense was also a little different than a Gus offense.  The 2009 offense with a Qb whose arm works could be really good.

[Auburn Kev 1,653]

Malzahn's Tulsa offense of 2007 & 2008 is what I would like to see. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

Since Offenses are SO different than what I grew up playing, I'm not as strong on my Xs & Os as I used to be.  

That said, from what I've seen from highlights of the Tulsa Offense @Auburn Kev mentioned above, that would be fantastic.

Oh, and since Gus is sticking to gunslingers instead of hot rods at QB, I'd love for him to study the nuances that makes Oklahoma's Offense tick.

[Carnell 592]

The basic concept is the same however Cam made superior reads in the option than Stidham and that would  result in more quarterbacks keepers out the back door.  Also Cam had great vision and patience the we had the quarterback power play available that Stidham could not run.  But in all fairness to Stidham that quarterback power play was designed for Cam not even marshall could run that play effectively.

Stidham was adequate enough runner to get 5 to 10 yards which is sufficient to make the zone read go but Cam could break the play.

Lindsey also changed the blocking schemes in 2017.

To be fair to all future quarterbacks in the ZR offense will have to make multiple reads where as Cam and Nick just had to read off of the unblocked DE.

 

[BigWhiskey91 632]

The base offense is going to be similar. Same variation of formations. With Cam and Marshall, we used less RB Wildcat and just used our mobile QB as the wildcat QB. This looked seemeless but you could tell from unbalanced line formations usually.

The difference comes from the plays we would use as “go to” plays on must convert situations. Also we would see differences in how we would use change up plays. For example, Cam always had a play action where he would dip his head down and pick back up and target a wheel route. Stidham did run this against Purdue, but mostly we would run streaks and posts off a standard play action look. 

With Stidham we also used more pop pass options to the slot receiver in our base RPO. This was to make up for Stidhams lack of mobility and to put more stress on the defense laterally. 

I expect us to see a lot of the same concepts that we have seen over the years. I honestly think we may see something closer to 2012 Ark State. Just hoping we don’t cauldle Nix too long and that we let him loose when we can! 

Edit: I think most expect to see Gatewood have some sort of wildcat package. Whether it’s a single play in a series or maybe an entire red zone possession. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

33 minutes ago, Carnell said:

The basic concept is the same however Cam made superior reads in the option than Stidham and that would  result in more quarterbacks keepers out the back door.  Also Cam had great vision and patience the we had the quarterback power play available that Stidham could not run.  But in all fairness to Stidham that quarterback power play was designed for Cam not even marshall could run that play effectively.

Stidham was adequate enough runner to get 5 to 10 yards which is sufficient to make the zone read go but Cam could break the play.

Lindsey also changed the blocking schemes in 2017.

To be fair to all future quarterbacks in the ZR offense will have to make multiple reads where as Cam and Nick just had to read off of the unblocked DE.

I think we've probably got 2 guys who will make better reads than Stidham, but maybe not as good as Cam (or Nick). 

So maybe it will be more of a case of both guys running basically the same offense, with different reads and action coming out of the same sets. Which I guess was the case the last 2 years, except Willis wasn't really allowed to do anything and wasn't really brought in when there was a still a game on the line. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

34 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I think we've probably got 2 guys who will make better reads than Stidham, but maybe not as good as Cam (or Nick). 

So maybe it will be more of a case of both guys running basically the same offense, with different reads and action coming out of the same sets. Which I guess was the case the last 2 years, except Willis wasn't really allowed to do anything and wasn't really brought in when there was a still a game on the line. 

I felt like Cam & Nick ran somewhat similar run Offenses with the difference being Nick was a blazingly fast & lightning quick runner to the outside of the DE (or inside him if he was kicked out).  Cam, on the other hand, was more like a really fast Jerome Bettis in that he could run inside like a fullback due to his freakish size and ability to dish-out hits rather than take them.  But all in all the style of the running games weren't THAT dissimilar to what Gus has been running the whole time at Auburn, outside of '09. ....but w/out Cam or Nick, so... (Maybe '11 too, but I have a hard time remembering the '11 season for some reason.)

The passing games on the other hand, were very different as Cam proved to be a very good passer w/ legit NFL ability, as the season bore on.  Nick was decent, for sure, but passing was still not his forte (although, I feel his decision making was top shelf).  It SEEMS to me that the passing game was a bit more sophisticated for Gus' offenses until that '13 season and over the last few years, we'll get glimpses in a game here or a few plays there but the passing Offense has certainly seemed to regress since Nick was at Auburn.

Side Note: IMO, Gus tried so hard to force Nick into a passer's mold in '14 that I felt it hurt Nick's overall ability to just let his football instincts run the show as he did so well the previous season & the offense's production faltered a bit.  Again, just my opinion (as all of this post is).

So...as the '19 season looms before us and Auburn has yet another QB (or 2) taking the reins, I honestly have no clue what to expect.  Actually, I do have an expectation but I want to keep things positive and hope I'm VERY pleasantly surprised.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

I have a hard time remembering the '11 season for some reason. ....

I'm trying to have a harder time remembering it.

3 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

I want to keep things positive and hope I'm VERY pleasantly surprised.

Word. 

 

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

I think it's important to mention as @Carnell alluded to that Malzahn and Lindsay run different offenses. Similar, but Lindsay runs the RPO whereas Malzahn runs the Power Run. Blocking schemes are very different though. At least when you run read option, both options are run plays, either the RB off tackle or QB running counter. But with RPO you don't have Linemen getting to second level. It's a lateral game because you're reacting to what the defense gives you and what you think your backfield is going to do.

So I think it's kinda hard to compare apples to apples when looking at the 2010 and 2017

[Carnell 592]

44 minutes ago, JBiGGiE said:

I think it's important to mention as @Carnell alluded to that Malzahn and Lindsay run different offenses. Similar, but Lindsay runs the RPO whereas Malzahn runs the Power Run. Blocking schemes are very different though. At least when you run read option, both options are run plays, either the RB off tackle or QB running counter. But with RPO you don't have Linemen getting to second level. It's a lateral game because you're reacting to what the defense gives you and what you think your backfield is going to do.

So I think it's kinda hard to compare apples to apples when looking at the 2010 and 2017

RPO IS REALLY A MISNOMER BECAUSE RPO is basically the same as an Audible which has been around for years and Gus has audibles in his game plan.  In addition, Gus offenses is designed to to run several different plays off of one set up based on what the defense is doing.  For instance, when Gus circles his hand after a successful play that means run it again but not necessarily the same play.  For instance, if the half gets a 12 yard run and gus is circling his hand for run it again doesnt mean the half back will carry it again it means same set and based on what the defense is doing will determine the specific play.  

[AUsince72 11,084]

25 minutes ago, Carnell said:

RPO IS REALLY A MISNOMER BECAUSE RPO is basically the same as an Audible which has been around for years and Gus has audibles in his game plan.  In addition, Gus offenses is designed to to run several different plays off of one set up based on what the defense is doing.  For instance, when Gus circles his hand after a successful play that means run it again but not necessarily the same play.  For instance, if the half gets a 12 yard run and gus is circling his hand for run it again doesnt mean the half back will carry it again it means same set and based on what the defense is doing will determine the specific play.  

Is that really you, Caddy?

On a serious note, all this makes good sense to me.

One thing I find interesting is @JBiGGiE 's point regarding the blocking scheme being different under Lindsey.  I hope that's correct as it definitely might explain the weak-sauce pre-snap stances and acrobatic back-flips of the O-linemen that we had to endure watching, especially in the first part of last season.  🤔

[johnnyAU 3,630]

4 hours ago, Auburn Kev said:

Malzahn's Tulsa offense of 2007 & 2008 is what I would like to see. 

That's what I wanted with Stidham too

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, johnnyAU said:

That's what I wanted with Stidham too

Yep but he was not as quick and at least a step slower in making his move....just not well suited for the QB having to make lemonade out of lemons.   From what we are hearing, both QBs should be able to do that. 

[Carnell 592]

1 hour ago, AUsince72 said:

Is that really you, Caddy?

On a serious note, all this makes good sense to me.

One thing I find interesting is @JBiGGiE 's point regarding the blocking scheme being different under Lindsey.  I hope that's correct as it definitely might explain the weak-sauce pre-snap stances and acrobatic back-flips of the O-linemen that we had to endure watching, especially in the first part of last season.  🤔

1 hour ago, AUsince72 said:

Is that really you, Caddy?

On a serious note, all this makes good sense to me.

One thing I find interesting is @JBiGGiE 's point regarding the blocking scheme being different under Lindsey.  I hope that's correct as it definitely might explain the weak-sauce pre-snap stances and acrobatic back-flips of the O-linemen that we had to endure watching, especially in the first part of last season.  🤔

Well if you had bothered to read my post about two posts up from Biggie then you would see I said the blocking schemes were different before even Biggie said it.  Gus ran a GAP BLOCKING SCHEME and Lindsey ran a zone blocking scheme but you say the only thing you agree with is what Biggie said well tell me how I am wrong about an audible vs an RPO.

.

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, Carnell said:

Well if you had bothered to read my post about two posts up from Biggie then you would see I said the blocking schemes were different before even Biggie said it.  Gus ran a GAP BLOCKING SCHEME and Lindsey ran a zone blocking scheme but you say the only thing you agree with is what Biggie said well tell me how I am wrong about an audible vs an RPO.

He was complimenting your analysis. And he probably just missed your previous post. The forum is busy today.

All due respect, 72 hasn't earned that level of ire. 

[Carnell 592]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

He was complimenting your analysis. And he probably just missed your previous post. The forum is busy today.

All due respect, 72 hasn't earned that level of ire. 

IF THAT IS THE CASE SORRY MY BAD

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

10 minutes ago, Carnell said:

IF THAT IS THE CASE SORRY MY BAD

 

No worries.  Loof was right, that I was complimenting your post.  And, yes I did see your mention about CCL changing the blocking scheme in '17.  I was just also adding the fellow poster's comment only because he went into a bit more detail regarding the blocking scheme.

It's just that the blocking schemes & techniques were a very sore spot for me last year and I probably bored these other posters to tears with my constant harping on it.  I'm REALLY hoping that they get back to aggressive, down-hill blocking again, among a few other changes that I hope to see this year....

War Eagle!

[Carnell 592]

5 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

No worries.  Loof was right, that I was complimenting your post.  And, yes I did see your mention about CCL changing the blocking scheme in '17.  I was just also adding the fellow poster's comment only because he went into a bit more detail regarding the blocking scheme.

It's just that the blocking schemes & techniques were a very sore spot for me last year and I probably bored these other posters to tears with my constant harping on it.  I'm REALLY hoping that they get back to aggressive, down-hill blocking again, among a few other changes that I hope to see this year....

War Eagle!

Again my apologies too many beers I guess.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Carnell said:

Again my apologies too many beers I guess.

You guys hiring???

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 minute ago, Carnell said:

Again my apologies too many beers I guess.

 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

4 hours ago, AUsince72 said:

IMO, Gus tried so hard to force Nick into a passer's mold in '14 that I felt it hurt Nick's overall ability to just let his football instincts run the show as he did so well the previous season & the offense's production faltered a bit.  Again, just my opinion (as all of this post is).

So...as the '19 season looms before us and Auburn has yet another QB (or 2) taking the reins, I honestly have no clue what to expect.  Actually, I do have an expectation but I want to keep things positive and hope I'm VERY pleasantly surprised.

Somebody has been listening to Zac...Locked on Auburn

[AUsince72 11,084]

13 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Somebody has been listening to Zac...Locked on Auburn

Actually, I've been saying this about Gus, Nick & 2014 SINCE 2014.

My guess is Zac's been listening to ME!

....just kidding about the 2nd part but the 1st part's true.

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

4 hours ago, Carnell said:

Well if you had bothered to read my post about two posts up from Biggie then you would see I said the blocking schemes were different before even Biggie said it.  Gus ran a GAP BLOCKING SCHEME and Lindsey ran a zone blocking scheme but you say the only thing you agree with is what Biggie said well tell me how I am wrong about an audible vs an RPO.

.

I'm most interested to see the difference in run blocking schemes this year. Gus's preferred gap scheme should be much easier on the OL to quickly know their assignment pre-snap based on the defensive alignment. That should help the pace, too. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

2 minutes ago, ValleyTiger said:

I'm most interested to see the difference in run blocking schemes this year. Gus's preferred gap scheme should be much easier on the OL to quickly know their assignment pre-snap based on the defensive alignment. That should help the pace, too. 

Honestly, that's the first thing I'll be paying close attention to....even before the new QB.