Nick Marshall vs Pat Sullivan

[Win4AU 4,052]

Not to derail this but I think D. Craig might have surpassed them both if he played in the 2013 Auburn offense.  He had the speed and in my opinion would have been a bigger passing threat.  Hard to compare anything 50 years ago with the year round training the kids get now.

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 hours ago, JTFazz said:

Different times, different styles of play, different defenses, different rules. Hard to make an apples to apples comparison. More appropriate comparison would be seeing how they stacked up against their peers of the day.

Even that is severely flawed, though, because there are just as many criteria that make it apples to oranges comparing two QBs playing in the same season. What kind of talent do they have around them? What kind of offense are they playing in? Does their play caller have any idea what he's doing? What kind of defenses did they face? Is their own defense any good and are they forced to play from behind a lot, or are they usually protecting a lead in the second half and playing more conservatively? What if Jason Campbell had been playing for Bob Stoops in 2004 instead of Tommy Tuberville?

You'd love to think that Heisman voters factor this stuff in, but they definitely don't. And obviously stats don't, either. 

[gr82be 14,423]

35 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Even that is severely flawed, though, because there are just as many criteria that make it apples to oranges comparing two QBs playing in the same season. What kind of talent do they have around them? What kind of offense are they playing in? Does their play caller have any idea what he's doing? What kind of defenses did they face? Is their own defense any good and are they forced to play from behind a lot, or are they usually protecting a lead in the second half and playing more conservatively? What if Jason Campbell had been playing for Bob Stoops in 2004 instead of Tommy Tuberville?

You'd love to think that Heisman voters factor this stuff in, but they definitely don't. And obviously stats don't, either. 

This is the best case against comparisons that has been made. That's the way life works. The sum of the parts is greater than great parts. 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

NM is my favorite player at AU of all time. He is also vastly underrated in my opinion. 

[bigbird 60,522]

17 hours ago, gr82b4au said:

NM is my favorite player at AU of all time. He is also vastly underrated in my opinion. 

Hopefully this won't be taken as being rude, but how old are you?

[augolf1716 21,123]

16 hours ago, bigbird said:

Hopefully this won't be taken an being rude, but how old are you?

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Already miss that show so much.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Already miss that show so much.

Wife and I have watched from Ep1 to End multiple times. It gets better every time we watch it. That is our bedtime show we put on just to have int he background

 

[bigbird 60,522]

25 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Give it a few minutes. It'll be like nothing was ever said.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Wife and I have watched from Ep1 to End multiple times. It gets better every time we watch it. That is our bedtime show we put on just to have int he background

Very rare combination of wholesome and legitimately interesting, smart and funny.

[bigbird 60,522]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Very rare combination of wholesome and legitimately interesting, smart and funny.

 

 

[augolf1716 21,123]

22 minutes ago, bigbird said:

 

 

[Viper 3,132]

On 4/25/2021 at 9:49 AM, gabo4au said:

 

Comparing statistics of completely different eras is difficult. But if you want to compare statistics, compare one that evaluates the player against the peers of  his era. There is one such measure, the Heisman trophy. So this is pretty easy, one of these players won the Heisman, the other didn't even come close. 

 

Loved watching Nick, he was magic at the qb/rb exchange point, a great runner, a winner, and almost a National Champion. But the other guy won the Heisman.

Sullivan didn’t have a RB that gobbled up 1979 yards & 24 TDs. 

Sullivan had more passing attempts than Marshall, so of course he had more passing yardage. However, Marshall had a better completion percentage.

Sullivan also doesn’t hold the all-time single game passing record at Auburn. Marshall does.

Throw in Marshall’s elite running threat and my vote easily goes to Marshall. 

[gravejd 3,270]

It depends on what you are picking the guy for. If i'm building a college football team i pick Sullivan to be my QB 9 times out of 10. If we are playing pick up ball out in the backyard then give me Nick. As amazing as Nick was I still view him as an amazing athlete more than a QB. There were very few offenses where he could have won at a high level like he did at AU. Malzahn schemed the perfect offense for that team. There's a reason Nick never got the chance to play QB in the NFL. He was a great athlete and a good QB. Sullivan was a good athlete and a great QB. So unless you are planning to play a wishbone offense in this scenario I don't see how you go against Sullivan. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

2 hours ago, gravejd said:

It depends on what you are picking the guy for. If i'm building a college football team i pick Sullivan to be my QB 9 times out of 10. If we are playing pick up ball out in the backyard then give me Nick. As amazing as Nick was I still view him as an amazing athlete more than a QB. There were very few offenses where he could have won at a high level like he did at AU. Malzahn schemed the perfect offense for that team. There's a reason Nick never got the chance to play QB in the NFL. He was a great athlete and a good QB. Sullivan was a good athlete and a great QB. So unless you are planning to play a wishbone offense in this scenario I don't see how you go against Sullivan. 

In today's game, I honestly think I am picking NM#14 the Magician 9 out of 10 times. I am not saying that he is better than Sully, just that for what I would want to do offensively and with the speed of the game today NM would be better suited for me.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

On 4/27/2021 at 3:50 PM, bigbird said:

Hopefully this won't be taken as being rude, but how old are you?

No offense taken. Late 40s. Grew up going to AU games in through the 80s and 90s. 

So many good players in the late 70s, 80s under PD, 90, etc and I know most will pick Cam or Bo or Pat, Cribbs, James, etc. But NM is my favorite. Incredible to watch, could run that offense like a machine, and was about a minute away from Auburn lore. 

[Viper 3,132]

4 hours ago, gravejd said:

It depends on what you are picking the guy for. If i'm building a college football team i pick Sullivan to be my QB 9 times out of 10. If we are playing pick up ball out in the backyard then give me Nick. As amazing as Nick was I still view him as an amazing athlete more than a QB. There were very few offenses where he could have won at a high level like he did at AU. Malzahn schemed the perfect offense for that team. There's a reason Nick never got the chance to play QB in the NFL. He was a great athlete and a good QB. Sullivan was a good athlete and a great QB. So unless you are planning to play a wishbone offense in this scenario I don't see how you go against Sullivan. 

Yet Marshall was a ‘Heisman QB to 1st Round WR’ pass away from a National Title while watching it on the sidelines not being able to do a damn thing about it. Marshall did everything he could to lead AU to a National Title, including the dropped catch-for-TD by Louis. 

Sullivan never sniffed a National Title.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Viper

[gravejd 3,270]

1 hour ago, Viper said:

Yet Marshall was a ‘Heisman QB to 1st Round WR’ pass away from a National Title while watching it on the sidelines not being able to do a damn thing about it. Marshall did everything he could to lead AU to a National Title, including the dropped catch-for-TD by Louis. 

Sullivan never sniffed a National Title.

A lot more than just one player goes into playing for a national championship. There have been tons of QBs play for national titles that i would put below NM and PS in a QB picking contest.