Where is the 4-3 defense?

[TitanTiger 20,571]

To the Omnipotent Football genius's we have.

Maybe I should rephrase my question to make it sound more professional for those of you who don't understand simple statements or questions since you all are professional's here.

WHY DON'T WE PLAY WITH 3 LINEBACKERS MORE SINCE WE RUN A 4-3 DEFENSE AS IT WOULD GIVE US MORE RUN STOPPING ABILITY AND GIVE US MORE OPTIONS TO BLITZ WITH?

I hope this doesn't confuse you brainiacs.

I had no idea we had so many Football guru's here. Do you all have Doctorates in BS?

Don't get upset with us over your errors.

[AUnCullman 601]

So where do you coach at TitanTiger?

[TitanTiger 20,571]

So where do you coach at TitanTiger?

Does it matter? You were still wrong.

[selias 2,398]

To the Omnipotent Football genius's we have.

Maybe I should rephrase my question to make it sound more professional for those of you who don't understand simple statements or questions since you all are professional's here.

WHY DON'T WE PLAY WITH 3 LINEBACKERS MORE SINCE WE RUN A 4-3 DEFENSE AS IT WOULD GIVE US MORE RUN STOPPING ABILITY AND GIVE US MORE OPTIONS TO BLITZ WITH?

I hope this doesn't confuse you brainiacs.

I had no idea we had so many Football guru's here. Do you all have Doctorates in BS?

What you said there bears no resemblance to your original question.

[AUnCullman 601]

So where do you coach at TitanTiger?

Does it matter? You were still wrong.

There again, a simple question that you cannot answer without attitude.

[auskull 239]

Looked to me like the defense just wore out and mentally got drained in the 2nd half when it was apparent that the O was always going 3 and out. I just hope there isn't any friction developing between the O and the D players. I remember something to that affect during the Tony Franklin year or...maybe it was 2003 with Nall and Emfinger co running the O. I remember about halfway in the 3rd quarter losing any hope with the Offense and the wind going out of my sails.

[AUnCullman 601]

To the Omnipotent Football genius's we have.

Maybe I should rephrase my question to make it sound more professional for those of you who don't understand simple statements or questions since you all are professional's here.

WHY DON'T WE PLAY WITH 3 LINEBACKERS MORE SINCE WE RUN A 4-3 DEFENSE AS IT WOULD GIVE US MORE RUN STOPPING ABILITY AND GIVE US MORE OPTIONS TO BLITZ WITH?

I hope this doesn't confuse you brainiacs.

I had no idea we had so many Football guru's here. Do you all have Doctorates in BS?

What you said there bears no resemblance to your original question.

Let me simplify it for you, Why don't we run more of a typical 4-3 defense instead of a Tampa 2 version?How was that?

[selias 2,398]

To the Omnipotent Football genius's we have.

Maybe I should rephrase my question to make it sound more professional for those of you who don't understand simple statements or questions since you all are professional's here.

WHY DON'T WE PLAY WITH 3 LINEBACKERS MORE SINCE WE RUN A 4-3 DEFENSE AS IT WOULD GIVE US MORE RUN STOPPING ABILITY AND GIVE US MORE OPTIONS TO BLITZ WITH?

I hope this doesn't confuse you brainiacs.

I had no idea we had so many Football guru's here. Do you all have Doctorates in BS?

What you said there bears no resemblance to your original question.

Let me simplify it for you, Why don't we run more of a typical 4-3 defense instead of a Tampa 2 version?How was that?

Then my question would be, what do you consider the difference between a typical 4-3 and the Tampa-2?

[1716 17]

"Evans is competent, and where the heck is Kris Frost?"

I only saw Frost play a little in the fourth quarter. There was a buildup last week that he and others would play because we needed to rest our starters on defense. I thought this year we would be stronger at linebacker because we have "young" players ready to rotate in.

Until our interior defensive line can stop the run and rush the quarterback, it may not matter who the linebackers are, unfortunately. In my humble opinion, the core problem of our defense lies with the defensive tackles.

[AUnCullman 601]

Well, first, I would keep three LBers closer to the line of scrimmage for run support instead of backing 2 off 15 yards from the LOS when the ball is snapped allowing their guards to block the LBers 15 yards behind the LOS. Keeps your QB in check as well. Plugs the holes. Correct??

[TitanTiger 20,571]

The 4-3 is a defensive alignment. The Tampa 2 is a defensive scheme or strategy. You can run a lot of different schemes within a 4-3 base set, the Tampa-2 just being one of them. No one runs a vanilla 4-3 except in the Pro Bowl and A-Day games.

[selias 2,398]

Well, first, I would keep three LBers closer to the line of scrimmage for run support instead of backing 2 off 15 yards from the LOS when the ball is snapped allowing their guards to block the LBers 15 yards behind the LOS. Keeps your QB in check as well. Plugs the holes. Correct??

The primary difference between a straight up 4-3 and a 4-3 Tampa-2 is where the MLB goes.

http://footballtimes.org/Article.asp?ID=167

[auburn4ever 1,266]

The 4-3 or Tampa 2 or whatever you want to call it it should trashed. Why not try the 3-4 or the 3-3-5. It can't be anu worce then what we've been watching during the first 2 games.

[keesler 5,934]

Looked to me like the defense just wore out and mentally got drained in the 2nd half when it was apparent that the O was always going 3 and out. I just hope there isn't any friction developing between the O and the D players. I remember something to that affect during the Tony Franklin year or...maybe it was 2003 with Nall and Emfinger co running the O. I remember about halfway in the 3rd quarter losing any hope with the Offense and the wind going out of my sails.

The wind went out of our player's sails mid-way into the 3rd qtr - the sideline girl on the TV mentioned it - the TV crew scanned the players - the guys in the booth said it too.

[TitanTiger 20,571]

The 4-3 or Tampa 2 or whatever you want to call it it should trashed. Why not try the 3-4 or the 3-3-5. It can't be anu worce then what we've been watching during the first 2 games.

Um...no.

[keesler 5,934]

The 4-3 or Tampa 2 or whatever you want to call it it should trashed. Why not try the 3-4 or the 3-3-5. It can't be anu worce then what we've been watching in the first 2 games.

The scheme ain't the problem a4e - execution is the problem. Too damn late now to try to teach a new defensive scheme, that's what spring & pre-season is for.

[AUnCullman 601]

Well, first, I would keep three LBers closer to the line of scrimmage for run support instead of backing 2 off 15 yards from the LOS when the ball is snapped allowing their guards to block the LBers 15 yards behind the LOS. Keeps your QB in check as well. Plugs the holes. Correct??

The primary difference between a straight up 4-3 and a 4-3 Tampa-2 is where the MLB goes.

http://footballtimes...icle.asp?ID=167

That is true but for the life of me I cannot figure out why our db's and lber's play so far off the line of scrimmage on so many plays. Not every play, but even a jr high kid knows a run situation and even then we are way off the LOS giving their blockers on the edge or in the middle plenty of time to setup blocks.

[TitanTiger 20,571]

Well, first, I would keep three LBers closer to the line of scrimmage for run support instead of backing 2 off 15 yards from the LOS when the ball is snapped allowing their guards to block the LBers 15 yards behind the LOS. Keeps your QB in check as well. Plugs the holes. Correct??

The primary difference between a straight up 4-3 and a 4-3 Tampa-2 is where the MLB goes.

http://footballtimes...icle.asp?ID=167

That is true but for the life of me I cannot figure out why our db's and lber's play so far off the line of scrimmage on so many plays. Not every play, but even a jr high kid knows a run situation and even then we are way off the LOS giving their blockers on the edge or in the middle plenty of time to setup blocks.

I think the basic issue is that unless you have lockdown corners and excellent pass covering safeties, playing close to the line to stuff the run is going to get you beat by big plays. The idea of keeping everything in front of you is to force an offense to drive the length of the field in small bits and force a mistake.

Of course, no defense will work if you don't get pressure or can't cover.

[1716 17]

Well, first, I would keep three LBers closer to the line of scrimmage for run support instead of backing 2 off 15 yards from the LOS when the ball is snapped allowing their guards to block the LBers 15 yards behind the LOS. Keeps your QB in check as well. Plugs the holes. Correct??

The primary difference between a straight up 4-3 and a 4-3 Tampa-2 is where the MLB goes.

http://footballtimes...icle.asp?ID=167

That is true but for the life of me I cannot figure out why our db's and lber's play so far off the line of scrimmage on so many plays. Not every play, but even a jr high kid knows a run situation and even then we are way off the LOS giving their blockers on the edge or in the middle plenty of time to setup blocks.

I think the basic issue is that unless you have lockdown corners and excellent pass covering safeties, playing close to the line to stuff the run is going to get you beat by big plays. The idea of keeping everything in front of you is to force an offense to drive the length of the field in small bits and force a mistake.

Of course, no defense will work if you don't get pressure or can't cover.

I agree that the linebackers are having to cheat back for pass protection. And, again, our defensive tackles are the core of the defense and have to make the run stop tackles up the middle in order for the linebackers to do this. If our core is weak, we are weak no matter what.

[TitanTiger 20,571]

Exactly. If our DTs were disrupting the interior the way they're supposed to, this defense looks a lot better even with the coverage issues.

[PigskinPat 2,582]

Exactly. If our DTs were disrupting the interior the way they're supposed to, this defense looks a lot better even with the coverage issues.

So is this our biggest question that needs to be answered on D? I think it is for me. It seems like all we heard and expected were all these fresh bodies rotating in and out on the line and wearing the opp offensive line down. Are they not being developed?

[ScottsboroAuburnFan 462]

Nickel = 3CB 2 Safety's

4-2-5 = 2CB 3 Safety's

[Plaric 4]

if our defensive line was playing like it is supposed to then we wouldn't have coverage issues. You can only hold a receiver for so long and when the QB has all day to pick where he is going with it the secondary is going to look bad by default.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Scottsboro, I'd say that's about right except that I think typical 4-2-5 teams refer to positions a little differently. Generally, it's 2 LBs, 1 Rover/Whip/whatever the heck you want to call it... hybrid player, 2 CBs, 2 Safeties.

As for the 4-3, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Is LSU struggling defensively? Did MSU look bad last week? Is South Carolina having a difficult time stopping people? All three are 4-3 alignment teams. It's about execution, personnel, and playcalling. Not the alignment.

I'd also like to ask people to stop using the term "Tampa-2." I feel like it's become just something people say. Nothing more. I know what it is, but unless you're a freak that spends your time reading detailed posts on smartfootball.com or buying coaching guides (even though you're not a football coach... like me), it's unlikely that you know exactly how the scheme works.

In general, a Tampa-2 defensive scheme puts a lot of pressure on a few people. (1) The MLB to diagnose the play quickly then get the proper depth on his drop if it's a pass... it's really hard. The Bucs could do it because they had Derrick Brooks. Auburn did it under Chizik with Dontarrious Thomas and Travis Williams. If you don't have a guy with that kind of athleticism and experience, you're asking for trouble. (2) The Safeties to play the run and protect half the field. The Tampa-2, a derivation of a cover-2, splits the back side of the field into two parts and asks the two Safeties to cover deep zone on the entire field. Teams started to attack it with intermediate outs and flag routes to get WRs between the CB (also in zone a fair amount of the time) and the S... or by flooding a particular deep zone to get one-on-one coverage with a CB/LB or make the Safety guess as to which guy to help. It's a tough scheme for Safeties. We were able to do it well with guys like Travaris Robinson, Junior Rosegreen, and Will Herring, but it's a tough ask. (3) The CBs because they have to be very aggressive on underneath stuff while still guarding against the times where the deep zone has multiple receivers. Bottom line, the Tampa-2 usually asks the CB to cover both the flats in zone and to have the ability to play man-to-man without Safety help. In other words, you need a Ronde Barber/Carlos Rogers on at least one side of the field.

All that to say, I haven't seen a lot of Tampa-2 out there this year. I've seen us in Nickel. I've seen use run some cover-2 with a variety of zone coverage underneath. I've seen a little (not much but some) zone blitz. I've seen a fair amount of cover-3 dropping the outside corner into the back third (which is what MSU was attacking early with all those passes into the flats while we sat in the Nickel package). But I haven't seen a ton of what's generally regarded as Tampa-2 with the MLB taking 10-15 yard depth and the Safeties splitting the field in half.

[alabamapaper 0]

Scottsboro, I'd say that's about right except that I think typical 4-2-5 teams refer to positions a little differently. Generally, it's 2 LBs, 1 Rover/Whip/whatever the heck you want to call it... hybrid player, 2 CBs, 2 Safeties.

As for the 4-3, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Is LSU struggling defensively? Did MSU look bad last week? Is South Carolina having a difficult time stopping people? All three are 4-3 alignment teams. It's about execution, personnel, and playcalling. Not the alignment.

I'd also like to ask people to stop using the term "Tampa-2." I feel like it's become just something people say. Nothing more. I know what it is, but unless you're a freak that spends your time reading detailed posts on smartfootball.com or buying coaching guides (even though you're not a football coach... like me), it's unlikely that you know exactly how the scheme works.

In general, a Tampa-2 defensive scheme puts a lot of pressure on a few people. (1) The MLB to diagnose the play quickly then get the proper depth on his drop if it's a pass... it's really hard. The Bucs could do it because they had Derrick Brooks. Auburn did it under Chizik with Dontarrious Thomas and Travis Williams. If you don't have a guy with that kind of athleticism and experience, you're asking for trouble. (2) The Safeties to play the run and protect half the field. The Tampa-2, a derivation of a cover-2, splits the back side of the field into two parts and asks the two Safeties to cover deep zone on the entire field. Teams started to attack it with intermediate outs and flag routes to get WRs between the CB (also in zone a fair amount of the time) and the S... or by flooding a particular deep zone to get one-on-one coverage with a CB/LB or make the Safety guess as to which guy to help. It's a tough scheme for Safeties. We were able to do it well with guys like Travaris Robinson, Junior Rosegreen, and Will Herring, but it's a tough ask. (3) The CBs because they have to be very aggressive on underneath stuff while still guarding against the times where the deep zone has multiple receivers. Bottom line, the Tampa-2 usually asks the CB to cover both the flats in zone and to have the ability to play man-to-man without Safety help. In other words, you need a Ronde Barber/Carlos Rogers on at least one side of the field.

All that to say, I haven't seen a lot of Tampa-2 out there this year. I've seen us in Nickel. I've seen use run some cover-2 with a variety of zone coverage underneath. I've seen a little (not much but some) zone blitz. I've seen a fair amount of cover-3 dropping the outside corner into the back third (which is what MSU was attacking early with all those passes into the flats while we sat in the Nickel package). But I haven't seen a ton of what's generally regarded as Tampa-2 with the MLB taking 10-15 yard depth and the Safeties splitting the field in half.

This is likely due to Holland not being ready to make the reads and shifts necessary to make the Tampa II work........