I still find it strange (Sandy Hook reporting)

[alexava 6,973]

not sure how folks dont get confused as to what theyre arguing for. first people claim that pistols or shotguns could have done the same damage as the assault weapon did(in the same hands). then we need armed guards in every school, then they claim that no shooting ever took place at all.

[AUDub 11,184]

not sure how folks dont get confused as to what theyre arguing for. first people claim that pistols or shotguns could have done the same damage as the assault weapon did(in the same hands). then we need armed guards in every school, then they claim that no shooting ever took place at all.

This is called "cognitive dissonance"

But this is a little different. I'm debating a conspiracy theorist, not your average run-of-the-mill gun nut. At least the majority of them have enough decency and sense not to attack grieving parents.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source.

This development brings up more questions than it answers: why was a SWAT team officer armed with a gun in the vicinity of the Newtown shooting PRIOR to the shooting AND WHY is he running away from the shooting as A COWARD would do, instead of running in to the school seeing that he was armed with a gun?

[autigeremt 6,719]

not sure how folks dont get confused as to what theyre arguing for. first people claim that pistols or shotguns could have done the same damage as the assault weapon did(in the same hands). then we need armed guards in every school, then they claim that no shooting ever took place at all.

This is called "cognitive dissonance"

But this is a little different. I'm debating a conspiracy theorist, not your average run-of-the-mill gun nut. At least the majority of them have enough decency and sense not to attack grieving parents.

not sure how folks dont get confused as to what theyre arguing for. first people claim that pistols or shotguns could have done the same damage as the assault weapon did(in the same hands). then we need armed guards in every school, then they claim that no shooting ever took place at all.

This is called "cognitive dissonance"

But this is a little different. I'm debating a conspiracy theorist, not your average run-of-the-mill gun nut. At least the majority of them have enough decency and sense not to attack grieving parents.

Who attacked a grieving parent? I certainly didn't. I question the facts of the case.

[AUDub 11,184]

Congratulations. You know how to use image macros. Feel better, sicko?

[Bottomfeeder 244]

not sure how folks dont get confused as to what theyre arguing for. first people claim that pistols or shotguns could have done the same damage as the assault weapon did(in the same hands). then we need armed guards in every school, then they claim that no shooting ever took place at all.

This is called "cognitive dissonance"

But this is a little different. I'm debating a conspiracy theorist, not your average run-of-the-mill gun nut. At least the majority of them have enough decency and sense not to attack grieving parents.

not sure how folks dont get confused as to what theyre arguing for. first people claim that pistols or shotguns could have done the same damage as the assault weapon did(in the same hands). then we need armed guards in every school, then they claim that no shooting ever took place at all.

This is called "cognitive dissonance"

But this is a little different. I'm debating a conspiracy theorist, not your average run-of-the-mill gun nut. At least the majority of them have enough decency and sense not to attack grieving parents.

Who attacked a grieving parent? I certainly didn't. I question the facts of the case.

He's going to say I did because I said Robbie Parker was an actor and Emily is still alive.

[AUDub 11,184]

not sure how folks dont get confused as to what theyre arguing for. first people claim that pistols or shotguns could have done the same damage as the assault weapon did(in the same hands). then we need armed guards in every school, then they claim that no shooting ever took place at all.

This is called "cognitive dissonance"

But this is a little different. I'm debating a conspiracy theorist, not your averager run-of-the-mill gun nut. At least the majority of them have enough decency and sense not to attack grieving parents.

not sure how folks dont get confused as to what theyre arguing for. first people claim that pistols or shotguns could have done the same damage as the assault weapon did(in the same hands). then we need armed guards in every school, then they claim that no shooting ever took place at all.

This is called "cognitive dissonance"

But this is a little different. I'm debating a conspiracy theorist, not your average run-of-the-mill gun nut. At least the majority of them have enough decency and sense not to attack grieving parents.

Who attacked a grieving parent? I certainly didn't. I question the facts of the case.

I know. I'll give you the benefit of a doubt that you have a sense of common decency. Read my post to you a little ways back. Questioning the facts is fine. Just don't take it too far, as BF has.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

I know. I'll give you the benefit of a doubt that you have a sense of common decency. Read my post to you a little ways back. Questioning the facts is fine. Just don't take it too far, as BF has.

I have backed off of the parents and kids. However, there are many other unanswered questions.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

I refuse to resort to name calling.

[AUDub 11,184]

I refuse to resort to name calling.

Sheeple will be sheeple.

How's this for name calling, liar.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

I refuse to resort to name calling.

Sheeple will be sheeple.

How's this for name calling, liar.

That was an indirect definition, not directed at a single person.

[AUDub 11,184]

I refuse to resort to name calling.

Sheeple will be sheeple.

How's this for name calling, liar.

That was an indirect definition, not directed at a single person.

Liar. Anyone with half a brain knows you meant me.

[alexava 6,973]

A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source.

This development brings up more questions than it answers: why was a SWAT team officer armed with a gun in the vicinity of the Newtown shooting PRIOR to the shooting AND WHY is he running away from the shooting as A COWARD would do, instead of running in to the school seeing that he was armed with a gun?

and i want to know why for two days the mother of lanza was thought to be a teacher at the school, then a substitute teacher, then a retired teacher, then not a teacher at all. and he had a missing girlfriend in new jersey that just went away. ITS CALLED JUMPING THE GUN, inacurrate reports result in it. some people hang to the premature reports if it fits an agenda. but no there was a conspiracy, the government and EVERY LEGITIMATE NEWS MEDIA, including faux news is supporting this conspiracy so obama can take all the guns away and do what? get real folks. you are reaching.

[AUDub 11,184]

and i want to know why for two days the mother of lanza was thought to be a teacher at the school, then a substitute teacher, then a retired teacher, then not a teacher at all. and he had a missing girlfriend in new jersey that just went away. ITS CALLED JUMPING THE GUN, inacurrate reports result in it. some people hang to the premature reports if it fits an agenda. but no there was a conspiracy, the government and EVERY LEGITIMATE NEWS MEDIA, including faux news is supporting this conspiracy so obama can take all the guns away and do what? get real folks. you are reaching.

There is a grain of truth to the "man in the woods." But you are correct. The initial reports were fragmentary at best. Nature of the beast with our newfound ability to communicate faster than lightning. Sometimes it takes a little while to fill the gaps.

There were two reported "men in the woods"

Chris Manfredonia, the father of a girl at the school was on his way there where he heard gunfire, so he ran towards the school.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec...oting-20121215

Chris Manfredonia, whose 6-year-old daughter attends the school, was heading there Friday morning to help make gingerbread houses with first-graders when he heard popping sounds and smelled sulfur.He ran around the school trying to reach his daughter and was briefly handcuffed by police. He later found his child, who had been locked in a small room with a teacher.

"The whole reason we moved here a year ago is because when you drive down the subdivision, it's a happy place," said his wife, Georgeann Manfredonia. "There's a ton of children here and the families are very kind and supportive."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...9.story?page=2

On Friday morning, [Chris Manfredonia], went to help make gingerbread houses in the first-grade class of the couple’s daughter. As he approached the school, he heard popping sounds, then smelled sulfur.

He attempted to reach his daughter by going around the side of the school. Police had arrived by then, stopped him and briefly handcuffed him.

The other person reportedly seen in the woods was an off-duty tactical squad police officer, out of uniform. With the amount of police there, and the initial chaos, it's not at all unexpected the the police would detain anyone who was not obviously a police officer. The fact that people will be detained in such a situation is ENTIRELY EXPECTED. It seems like this second person was not actually detained, just spotted and it led to obvious concerns of another shooter.

http://newtownbee.com/News/News/2012...auma+Treatment

A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source.

It's also expected, and this is something that needs repeating, that initial media reports of such a situation are going to be fragmentary, constantly changing, and often wrong. It's chaos, there's a lot of people doing a lot of different things, and yet the media is there 24 hours, sucking up any tiny fragment of information and repeating it without verifying it, or even really understanding the context.

When people talk about "in the woods", it sounds a little suspicious, however the school is "in the woods", it's totally surrounded with just one road in. Approaching the school through the woods is to expected."

[autigeremt 6,719]

Does it really matter? I mean, the whole incident proves the media has no clue, the people have no clue, and the country has no clue. We are at the mercy of the chosen few and the notion that America is a mistake.

We get what we as citizens have allowed. Sick of it all. I just don't understand what is so wrong with the ideals of Liberty and a free society. People will never be perfect, yet we allow ourselves to think that groups of people are. Mind blowing.

[AUDub 11,184]

Does it really matter? I mean, the whole incident proves the media has no clue, the people have no clue, and the country has no clue. We are at the mercy of the chosen few and the notion that America is a mistake.

YES. IT. MATTERS.

Wild theories from incomplete information are the kind that breed truther shills like BottomFeeder (Appropriately named. Now THATS an insult). We all have an obligation to get the story straight. And honestly, while I don't trust the MSM any more than you do (I aggregate my news on teh interwebz, multiple sources of all idealogies), they've actually gotten better. Google "yellow journalism" and "W.R. Hearst." Now THERE'S some biased media for ya.

We get what we as citizens have allowed. Sick of it all. I just don't understand what is so wrong with the ideals of Liberty and a free society. People will never be perfect, yet we allow ourselves to think that groups of people are. Mind blowing.

You mean what is so wrong with society when measured up against your ideals. We're America, we're still the best. We will retain our liberty. But we all have our own moral compass. Trust me, the end isn't nigh. We're actually better than we've ever been as a race, dysfunctional governments notwithstanding. But all of our problems are reversible. We can fix whatever's wrong, and I believe we will. Guess what, it's going to get better. I truly believe that.

I don't recall saying anybody was perfect. We're all human. We're all learning and advancing as human beings, and it never ends. From the day you're born until the day you die, it's never too late to increase our understanding of ourselves and each other.

Cheer up, buddy!

Have a nice night.

[autigeremt 6,719]

Does it really matter? I mean, the whole incident proves the media has no clue, the people have no clue, and the country has no clue. We are at the mercy of the chosen few and the notion that America is a mistake.

YES. IT. MATTERS.

Wild theories from incomplete information are the kind that breed truther shills like BottomFeeder (Appropriately named. Now THATS an insult). We all have an obligation to get the story straight. And honestly, while I don't trust the MSM any more than you do (I aggregate my news on teh interwebz, multiple sources of all idealogies), they've actually gotten better. Google "yellow journalism" and "W.R. Hearst." Now THERE'S some biased media for ya.

We get what we as citizens have allowed. Sick of it all. I just don't understand what is so wrong with the ideals of Liberty and a free society. People will never be perfect, yet we allow ourselves to think that groups of people are. Mind blowing.

You mean what is so wrong with society when measured up against your ideals. We're America, we're still the best. We will retain our liberty. But we all have our own moral compass. Trust me, the end isn't nigh. We're actually better than we've ever been as a race, dysfunctional governments notwithstanding. But all of our problems are reversible. We can fix whatever's wrong, and I believe we will. Guess what, it's going to get better. I truly believe that.

I don't recall saying anybody was perfect. We're all human. We're all learning and advancing as human beings, and it never ends. From the day you're born until the day you die, it's never too late to increase our understanding of ourselves and each other.

Cheer up, buddy!

Have a nice night.

At some point our problems are not reversible. 17 trillion in debt and a government that has grown beyond its intended purpose cannot continue to sustain without major changes. Who has the guts to lead this mess? Actually, who has the guts and the puppet masters that will allow it? For the first time in my life I don't see a better tomorrow. By the time it happens (if it does) I will be dust.

[AUDub 11,184]

What can I say. I'm an optimist. But note that it may be a while before it gets better. I do realize that. But I believe it will. Things will change, but that isn't always a bad thing. A future of uncertainty is not necessarily a future of doom and gloom.

[telling tiger 156]

Freedom applies to everyone, not just the people who live their lives as a few seem to want to demand. There is a place for everyone, the society has not caught up with having such instant access to people and the opinions of those people that they might not have even known existed. In the same way that media hasn't caught up with having instant access to so many people and telling a developing story without identifying it as such.

HOWEVER, imo, it is as much the individuals fault for frankly not being intelligent enough to know that a story that is 3 minutes old is not fully developed or told. The slightest bit of common sense will tell you that it will evolve.

To assume that a story will not be told with an agenda from all angles is also a lack of understanding. The same story will be told from different angles form the Gun Owners of America and the Brady Coalition. They have one thing in common. They BOTH have an agenda.

There is even a place for people like bottomfeeder, it is important that people see those people exist, so they can be held responsible for their rhetoric.. He is a prime example of someone who finds a source on youtube and thinks it has value without using critical thinking skills to evaluate it, he has an agenda, everything is a conspiracy, and he must support that agenda at all cost. Seemingly no matter the source.

These days any idiot who knows how to post a video can have his opinion seen. Nothing can be taken at face value AND that includes the various people who are questioing face value of something else. Evolve. Fast.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

There is even a place for people like bottomfeeder, it is important that people see those people exist, so they can be held responsible for their rhetoric.. He is a prime example of someone who finds a source on youtube and thinks it has value without using critical thinking skills to evaluate it, he has an agenda, everything is a conspiracy, and he must support that agenda at all cost. Seemingly no matter the source.

I do critique those things I believe to be untrue. I still don't understand Robbie Parker's behavior 6 hours after the incident. My sources go far beyond youtube, however, some of those sources cite video uploaded to youtube. Sure, I may have jumped the gun on some of the glaring inconsistencies, but far be it from me not to question anything. Rather, I question everything, especially when any level of government is involved. In this case, that level is local and state law enforcement, and yes, they have an agenda too.

[telling tiger 156]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a HEALTHY sense of questioning, I'll give you credit for saying you may have jumped the gun (interesting metaphor). You did.

Shock takes many forms. You have no idea how you might react either. I'd love to see you tell any of those fathers to their faces that their child didn't die. Another issue our culture hasn't caught up with,is that anyone can seemingly say anything they want to, then some act surprised when other responsible people call them out on the statements. The fringe will never be the majority. Reasonable people will not allow it, the more it makes the fringe known, the greater the response to it. Noticed recently? lol

We, as a culture, have also learned that there is a market for anything and some people will believe it and become wholehearted proponents of it. Amazing to me. The population decries the disintegration of the culture while making it more hateful the whole time and participating in it. Unable to see that is what they are doing or not caring that they are also participating in it, as well.

While you think you may have sources, learn to expect that other people will question those as well. Yours' are not the only applicable questions.

[AUDub 11,184]

Thank you, TT. Couldn't have put any any better than you have with your last two posts.

I agree, and I think it has a lot to do with our new means of interpersonal communication. It's hard to attach a face to everyone, and as a result, we tend to be a tad dehumanised toward one another. It effects our attitudes. We become cynical as a result. Part of the anonymous culture with little to no moral relativity. It allows small, but vocal minorities to voice harebrained (or EVIL) opinions, and the fact that the audience is so broad means there's a good chance it may gain some traction among the impressionable. I just want sound debate and common decency to take hold on this board, because I have no illusions of fixing teh interwebz.

Let's keep it honest and civil, as though we are speaking face to face. But watch what you say, Bottomfeeder. There are fewer than 6 degrees of separation between you and Mr. Parker when you're addressing me.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

My check is still good. Being that I have no children of my own makes it hard for me to identify with some on this board (I do have nieces and nephews). What I do have in common with those folks is the length with which I would go to protect innocent life. That would be sacrificing my own life for a child, any child. Race, religion, background, etc. doesn't matter. Furthermore, I find it a tad distasteful for the political machine to capitalize on tragedy. I become angry and driven to prove their bases to be a fraud rather than just accepting the agenda they dictate. Perhaps my approach needs to be tweaked, but my motives are pure because I don't really have an agenda, but instead just a strong desire for the truth.

[telling tiger 156]

Not that I really care to continually discuss this with you, although PER CHANCE there may be some movement toward civility, but,

HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THE SOURCES YOU POSTED AS ALSO TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A TRAGEDY?!?!?!?!?!? Uh, hello.

No living human being that participates in social or political discourse does so without an agenda, including you.

[alexava 6,973]

We need to define "agenda".