Michael Sams coming out party

[homersapien 11,393]

Lets not veer off now. My question has to do with bigotry, not homosexuality. The definition of bigotry. Nothing more. I never compared anyone too anything.

Being against an activity that victimizes someone is hardly the same as bigotry.

Hopefully this will stay civil, most of these posts that I have read are so inaccurate biblically, it saddens me. Bigotry is defined as:

1.

big·ot·ry /ˈbigətrē/

intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

So bigotry is based on your beliefs. If you believe that a man having a relationship with an 11 year old (and believe me, this grosses me out to even use this example) , is wrong because it victimizes a child, you are bigoted toward the man. The definition of bigotry shows that. We are ALL bigots in some way.

We may all be bigots, but we aren't all criminals. Victimizing a child is criminal.

If you really want to play with definitions I suppose one could say that I am bigoted toward criminals. Certainly I am "bigoted" toward someone who would victimize a child. I will plead guilty to that.

[homersapien 11,393]

Lets not veer off now. My question has to do with bigotry, not homosexuality. The definition of bigotry. Nothing more. I never compared anyone too anything.

Being against an activity that victimizes someone is hardly the same as bigotry.

Hopefully this will stay civil, most of these posts that I have read are so inaccurate biblically, it saddens me. Bigotry is defined as:

1.

big·ot·ry /ˈbigətrē/

intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

So bigotry is based on your beliefs. If you believe that a man having a relationship with an 11 year old (and believe me, this grosses me out to even use this example) , is wrong because it victimizes a child, you are bigoted toward the man. The definition of bigotry shows that. We are ALL bigots in some way.

Polygamy probably would have been a better example, Weegs. Much more morally ambiguous.

Hell, I am not bigoted toward polygamists. I feel sorry for them. It's self-punishing.

[Weegle777 78]

Lets not veer off now. My question has to do with bigotry, not homosexuality. The definition of bigotry. Nothing more. I never compared anyone too anything.

Being against an activity that victimizes someone is hardly the same as bigotry.

Hopefully this will stay civil, most of these posts that I have read are so inaccurate biblically, it saddens me. Bigotry is defined as:

1.

big·ot·ry /ˈbigətrē/

intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

So bigotry is based on your beliefs. If you believe that a man having a relationship with an 11 year old (and believe me, this grosses me out to even use this example) , is wrong because it victimizes a child, you are bigoted toward the man. The definition of bigotry shows that. We are ALL bigots in some way.

Polygamy probably would have been a better example, Weegs. Much more morally ambiguous.

Hell, I am not bigoted toward polygamists. I feel sorry for them. It's self-punishing. ;)/>

Now THAT I absolutely agree with.

[Weegle777 78]

I think you are purposefully widening the definition to prove your point and to muddy the distinction between intolerance and dislike. The full definition is: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

Saying you don't like that someone is a pedophile is not bigotry. The distinction comes whether or not you join a lynch mob to take care of it. Likewise disagreeing with someone's opinions doesn't make you a bigot. It becomes bigotry when you believe they are lesser human beings for having that opinion.

Edit: Merriam-Webster was the definition source. http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/bigot

I somewhat agree and disagree with you. It has to with what you believe. My beliefs, if you remember a little while ago on this board were staunchly against homosexuals. As I grew in my knowledge of Jesus, my beliefs have drastically changed, not only about this subject, but about people in general. I try not to cast stones or label anybody anymore. And calling someone a bigot because of what they believe is hypocritical because we are all against something. And if you step back, my example, though hard to consider, is valid because, it is criminal, but in some cultures, homosexuality is criminal as well and is treated the same as pedophilia. We all need to understand that none of us are good. We all have fallen short and have no right to judge anyone, even though they seem to be ignorant of some things.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

I think you are purposefully widening the definition to prove your point and to muddy the distinction between intolerance and dislike. The full definition is: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

Saying you don't like that someone is a pedophile is not bigotry. The distinction comes whether or not you join a lynch mob to take care of it. Likewise disagreeing with someone's opinions doesn't make you a bigot. It becomes bigotry when you believe they are lesser human beings for having that opinion.

Edit: Merriam-Webster was the definition source. http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/bigot

I somewhat agree and disagree with you. It has to with what you believe. My beliefs, if you remember a little while ago on this board were staunchly against homosexuals. As I grew in my knowledge of Jesus, my beliefs have drastically changed, not only about this subject, but about people in general. I try not to cast stones or label anybody anymore. And calling someone a bigot because of what they believe is hypocritical because we are all against something. And if you step back, my example, though hard to consider, is valid because, it is criminal, but in some cultures, homosexuality is criminal as well and is treated the same as pedophilia. We all need to understand that none of us are good. We all have fallen short and have no right to judge anyone, even though they seem to be ignorant of some things.

And I agree and disagree with this. If you go back and look when the word was used here, it's not that someone doesn't like homosexuality or approve of it that makes it bigotry in my eyes, it's when those people in turn assume or intimate that they are second-class or less of a person than they are because of that homosexuality. Or, in other words, it's not the opinion that makes a bigot, it's how they apply it. It may be a small distinction, but that's just how I see it.

While I disagree to some extent with your definition and interpretation, I certainly appreciate where you are coming from.

[Weegle777 78]

I think you are purposefully widening the definition to prove your point and to muddy the distinction between intolerance and dislike. The full definition is: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

Saying you don't like that someone is a pedophile is not bigotry. The distinction comes whether or not you join a lynch mob to take care of it. Likewise disagreeing with someone's opinions doesn't make you a bigot. It becomes bigotry when you believe they are lesser human beings for having that opinion.

Edit: Merriam-Webster was the definition source. http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/bigot

I somewhat agree and disagree with you. It has to with what you believe. My beliefs, if you remember a little while ago on this board were staunchly against homosexuals. As I grew in my knowledge of Jesus, my beliefs have drastically changed, not only about this subject, but about people in general. I try not to cast stones or label anybody anymore. And calling someone a bigot because of what they believe is hypocritical because we are all against something. And if you step back, my example, though hard to consider, is valid because, it is criminal, but in some cultures, homosexuality is criminal as well and is treated the same as pedophilia. We all need to understand that none of us are good. We all have fallen short and have no right to judge anyone, even though they seem to be ignorant of some things.

And I agree and disagree with this. If you go back and look when the word was used here, it's not that someone doesn't like homosexuality or approve of it that makes it bigotry in my eyes, it's when those people in turn assume or intimate that they are second-class or less of a person than they are because of that homosexuality. Or, in other words, it's not the opinion that makes a bigot, it's how they apply it. It may be a small distinction, but that's just how I see it.

While I disagree to some extent with your definition and interpretation, I certainly appreciate where you are coming from.

I definitely agree with that. It grates me when someone who professes faith in Christ, turns right around and preaches to another as if they have a superior biblical knowledge because of an ability to read, rather than an ability to understand the context of the passage.

[Weegle777 78]

Honestly, no matter what your beliefs are, if you step away and out from under the "organization" that has been established by supposed "church" people, and study the person of Jesus, you would see that He gave an extraordinary example of how we should treat others and how we should live. Not once, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong, did Jesus ever turn His back on anyone. The only people He ever opposed were the "churchy" people who, if many people here reflected inward, would see that they, though professing the Word of God, are walking the same path of the people that Jesus opposed.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

Honestly, no matter what your beliefs are, if you step away and out from under the "organization" that has been established by supposed "church" people, and study the person of Jesus, you would see that He gave an extraordinary example of how we should treat others and how we should live. Not once, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong, did Jesus ever turn His back on anyone. The only people He ever opposed were the "churchy" people who, if many people here reflected inward, would see that they, though professing the Word of God, are walking the same path of the people that Jesus opposed.

100%.

[berrytgr 0]

Sam is not going high in the draft after yesterdays combine results. He did not look good.

5. Michael Sam ... is who we thought he was

Sam said Monday he was disappointed in his 25 1/2-inch vertical leap (nevermind his 4.91 40). We can understand why.

In 2004, Miami (Fla.) nose tackle Vince Wilfork's vertical was 26 inches at his pro day. Wilfork, the behemoth Pro Bowl lineman for the New England Patriots, was 6-1, 329 during the pre-draft measurements (safe to say he might be up a few pounds, or 10). Last February, eventual No. 1 overall pick Eric Fisher had a 28 1/2 vertical. A reminder -- he's 6-7, 302 and plays offensive tackle.

The vertical and broad jump were not impressive for Sam, nor were they as vital as position workouts. He was tight and stiff in the hips and ankles and kept his head down and chest up through linebacker drills.

The workout proved what Sam showed at the Senior Bowl last month -- that his niche to begin his NFL career will be on special teams and as backup depth who might eventually get time in nickel pass-rushing situations.

Sam needs a great scheme fit to be drafted, which no longer looks like a guarantee. His fourth- or fifth-round grade in a deep draft is an indication he will not be a priority even on the third day.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24455968/nfl-combine-five-takeaways-from-monday

[Weegle777 78]

It will be interesting to watch how the media spins this.

[homersapien 11,393]

It will be interesting to watch how the media spins this.

Gay people can't jump?

(jk)

[Weegle777 78]

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

[homersapien 11,393]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

But I have seen very, very few negative comments about him. I seems to me that by far, most people admire his courage.

He may not be drafted particularly high, but he will play. It remains to be seen how good he will be. I suspect he will surprise some people, regardless of his vertical leap. After all, he was defensive player of the year in the SEC. That's got to count for something.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

But I have seen very, very few negative comments about him. I seems to me that by far, most people admire his courage.

He may not be drafted particularly high, but he will play. It remains to be seen how good he will be. I suspect he will surprise some people, regardless of his vertical leap. After all, he was defensive player of the year in the SEC. That's got to count for something.

I think he came out as a preemptive strike to save himself some trouble. There are enough haters out there that would taunt him or worse.

[Weegle777 78]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

Many of us are.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

Many of us are.

That's so good to hear Weegs.

[homersapien 11,393]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

But I have seen very, very few negative comments about him. I seems to me that by far, most people admire his courage.

He may not be drafted particularly high, but he will play. It remains to be seen how good he will be. I suspect he will surprise some people, regardless of his vertical leap. After all, he was defensive player of the year in the SEC. That's got to count for something.

I think he came out as a preemptive strike to save himself some trouble. There are enough haters out there that would taunt him or worse.

He came out to his team a year ago, so it was a foregone conclusion that he would be outed during his pro career. I think he just decided it was the right thing to do and he wanted to do it on his own terms.

It's absolutely amazing to me how rapidly this change in attitude has come about in sports - much less the country which is reflected in sports. I think it's something for us to be proud of, especially when you consider what is happening in Russia, Nigeria and pretty much every Muslim country.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

Belle, I think I love you.

Seriously, though...my heart breaks for kids in middle and high school that have to go through that struggle. I've had friend commit suicide, known people who have ended their lives because they couldn't take it...the teasing, the ostracizing from former friends and family. Those age groups are very impulsive, and sometimes it doesn't take much to make them make an irrevocable decision. Thank you for being a spot where he can go and know it's safe.

[DKW 86 7,431]

Honestly, no matter what your beliefs are, if you step away and out from under the "organization" that has been established by supposed "church" people, and study the person of Jesus, you would see that He gave an extraordinary example of how we should treat others and how we should live. Not once, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong, did Jesus ever turn His back on anyone. The only people He ever opposed were the "churchy" people who, if many people here reflected inward, would see that they, though professing the Word of God, are walking the same path of the people that Jesus opposed.

100%.

+1

[cooltigger21 0]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

But I have seen very, very few negative comments about him. I seems to me that by far, most people admire his courage.

He may not be drafted particularly high, but he will play. It remains to be seen how good he will be. I suspect he will surprise some people, regardless of his vertical leap. After all, he was defensive player of the year in the SEC. That's got to count for something.

Was it really all that courageous. In todays' society it's easier to be gay or lesbian than it is to be a christian

[homersapien 11,393]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

But I have seen very, very few negative comments about him. I seems to me that by far, most people admire his courage.

He may not be drafted particularly high, but he will play. It remains to be seen how good he will be. I suspect he will surprise some people, regardless of his vertical leap. After all, he was defensive player of the year in the SEC. That's got to count for something.

Was it really all that courageous. In todays' society it's easier to be gay or lesbian than it is to be a christian

Real Christians don't obsess about homosexuals.

[Weegle777 78]

That homer, is a true statement.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

But I have seen very, very few negative comments about him. I seems to me that by far, most people admire his courage.

He may not be drafted particularly high, but he will play. It remains to be seen how good he will be. I suspect he will surprise some people, regardless of his vertical leap. After all, he was defensive player of the year in the SEC. That's got to count for something.

Was it really all that courageous. In todays' society it's easier to be gay or lesbian than it is to be a christian

If you think it's hard being a Christian, try not being one.

Also, the Christians over in Egypt who routinely get murdered would like to have a word with you regarding this.

[Fairleyunderappreciated 0]

I say...leave the kid alone. Let him live his life and try to be a happy productive citizen. He is harming no one, so let it go. You don't have to like it, but he has a right to be who he is without the fear that something bad will happen to him, or that he will be ostracized his whole life.

I have a very good friend with a gay son, and I have learned so much from knowing them. He's a great kid, and so smart with so much to contribute...but he suffered so much anguish when he realized he was gay. He wanted to die. No one should suffer like he has. If he could change, I guarantee you that he would in a heartbeat. People don't understand, and they are so cruel. My family loves him, he is welcome at my home any time, and I feel no different towards him than I ever did. He is not a criminal, and my loving God will not send him to hell because he is truly a good person....better than a lot of straight people he knows.

I agree that Jesus would have been nothing but loving and kind to this boy. Why can't we follow that example?

But I have seen very, very few negative comments about him. I seems to me that by far, most people admire his courage.

He may not be drafted particularly high, but he will play. It remains to be seen how good he will be. I suspect he will surprise some people, regardless of his vertical leap. After all, he was defensive player of the year in the SEC. That's got to count for something.

I think he came out as a preemptive strike to save himself some trouble. There are enough haters out there that would taunt him or worse.

He came out to his team a year ago, so it was a foregone conclusion that he would be outed during his pro career. I think he just decided it was the right thing to do and he wanted to do it on his own terms.

It's absolutely amazing to me how rapidly this change in attitude has come about in sports - much less the country which is reflected in sports. I think it's something for us to be proud of, especially when you consider what is happening in Russia, Nigeria and pretty much every Muslim country.

I dont think the attitude has changed as much as you think, especially in football. The only people allowed to speak out on the subject without negative repercussions are those that support the lifestyle therefore the only ones you here are those that support it. Adrien Petterson offered his opinion of the subject last year and was pilloried.

The media coverage on this subject doesn't reflect opinion so much at it shapes it.