Anti-Obamacare Argument Is "Absurd"

[cptau 169]

There is no such thing as free healthcare. Just because you're not paying for it doesn't mean it's not being paid for, by someone else.

And you're welcome.

Not a big fan of freedom, I see. As long as daddy govt tells you what you need, you're fine.

My god, you are such a loyal myrmidon to the Imperial Federal Govt.

I see you removed this little gem: "Cars are not mandated to have rear cameras. But it's not the govt's job to tell us what to pay for, what not to pay for." In the future how about a quick google search before embarrassing yourself.

"Today’s final rule requires all vehicles under 10,000 pounds, including buses and trucks, manufactured on or after May 1, 2018, to come equipped with rear visibility technology that expands the field of view to enable the driver of a motor vehicle to detect areas behind the vehicle to reduce death and injury resulting from backover incidents. The field of view must include a 10-foot by 20-foot zone directly behind the vehicle. The system must also meet other requirements including image size, linger time, response time, durability, and deactivation.

“Rear visibility requirements will save lives, and will save many families from the heartache suffered after these tragic incidents occur," said NHTSA Acting Administrator David Friedman. "We’re already recommending this kind of life-saving technology through our NCAP program and encouraging consumers to consider it when buying cars today." http://www.dot.gov/briefing-room/nhtsa-announces-final-rule-requiring-rear-visibility-technology

ACA makes you buy coverage you do not need and cannot use. My 26 year old single son has a policy that covers pediatric dentistry. Other people in their 50s and 60s have childbirth coverage. They pay for that coverage to help cover the costs for people who are still having children.

To use the car analogy, if you have to buy safety equipment like air bags and backup cameras, everyone benefits from those. But if the government mandated that all cars have 4 wheel drive for use in snow, and you live in Florida or Hawaii, not much need. But you would be helping support the manufacturing cost of equipping all new cars with 4 wheel drive.

Auto insurance is still based on your age and driving history. If you are driver with several accidents and traffic tickets, you will become a high risk driver paying more for auto insurance. If we apply the ACA type rule to car insurance, bad drivers would pay no more than a good driver. But the good drivers would pay more to help cover the cost of the bad drivers accidents. And states do mandate liability coverage today, but those with bad driving records pay more for it

[AURaptor 1,125]

There is no such thing as free healthcare. Just because you're not paying for it doesn't mean it's not being paid for, by someone else.

And you're welcome.

Not a big fan of freedom, I see. As long as daddy govt tells you what you need, you're fine.

My god, you are such a loyal myrmidon to the Imperial Federal Govt.

I see you removed this little gem: "Cars are not mandated to have rear cameras. But it's not the govt's job to tell us what to pay for, what not to pay for." In the future how about a quick google search before embarrassing yourself.

I didn't embarrass myself, dumb ass. I DID a quick google search, because I wasn't aware of just how much my govt was efforting to control the lives of - EVERYONE.

Lesson learned. There is no end to what govt will do to control the people. Just like Rep. John Dingell admitted, when he said ti take a long time to control the people.

Not the govt's job to tell us every car needs a damn rear view camera. Let the free market decide that.

Too bad your righteous indignation won't help as your stroking a check to your insurance company.

Damn near all Americans are doing the same, and being forced to spend $ where it could be spent otherwise. Because who earned it ? The individual, that's who. Not uncle freaking Obama.

It's not right. It's not American. It sure as hell isn't freedom.

[WarTim 3,456]

A complete and total failure. Obama said costs would go down, they went up. He lied. Knowingly lied. It was the lie of the year. Cost went up specifically and entirely because of O-Care. The Democrats made it law that ins. companies had to cover things we didn't need, jacking cost up. Your blind allegience to this admin is nothing short of idiots praising communism.

Working as planned ? Yes. To destroy this country.

I have no blind allegiance. I get my healthcare for free. Government mandates stuff all the time and the regulatory costs are passed to the consumer. Cars are now mandated to have rear cameras, boom you pay the costs. Like I said, take it up with your insurance company.

This will be corrected when we "take it up with" an election in 2016 !!!

[WarTim 3,456]

For every person who has benefited, 2 have higher co-pays, deductibles, and/or premiums. And still.....there will be millions without insurance.

BTW....no one has free insurance. You might not pay for it directly, but someone is.

Grand slam.

Well said Emt. My biggest gripe is that we were not told the truth up front. Good or bad..just tell the public the TRUTH. SMH...

[AURaptor 1,125]

A complete and total failure. Obama said costs would go down, they went up. He lied. Knowingly lied. It was the lie of the year. Cost went up specifically and entirely because of O-Care. The Democrats made it law that ins. companies had to cover things we didn't need, jacking cost up. Your blind allegience to this admin is nothing short of idiots praising communism.

Working as planned ? Yes. To destroy this country.

I have no blind allegiance. I get my healthcare for free. Government mandates stuff all the time and the regulatory costs are passed to the consumer. Cars are now mandated to have rear cameras, boom you pay the costs. Like I said, take it up with your insurance company.

This will be corrected when we "take it up with" an election in 2016 !!!

What's so hilarious / sad is that USN claims no blind allegiance, and then blindly goes to display his blind allegiance !!!

Gov't says " JUMP", and we're suppose to just accept it and say " How High ? " .

What if the next President and Congress work together to repeal the ' mandate' ? Hey hey ! It's the law, so it MUST be right , after all !

What if the next Prez mandates that we all need to drive a brand new Lexus, Mercedes, or BMW ?

Hey, the cost gets passed onto the customer. Boom !

[AUUSN 823]

A complete and total failure. Obama said costs would go down, they went up. He lied. Knowingly lied. It was the lie of the year. Cost went up specifically and entirely because of O-Care. The Democrats made it law that ins. companies had to cover things we didn't need, jacking cost up. Your blind allegience to this admin is nothing short of idiots praising communism.

Working as planned ? Yes. To destroy this country.

I have no blind allegiance. I get my healthcare for free. Government mandates stuff all the time and the regulatory costs are passed to the consumer. Cars are now mandated to have rear cameras, boom you pay the costs. Like I said, take it up with your insurance company.

This will be corrected when we "take it up with" an election in 2016 !!!

What's so hilarious / sad is that USN claims no blind allegiance, and then blindly goes to display his blind allegiance !!!

Gov't says " JUMP", and we're suppose to just accept it and say " How High ? " .

What if the next President and Congress work together to repeal the ' mandate' ? Hey hey ! It's the law, so it MUST be right , after all !

What if the next Prez mandates that we all need to drive a brand new Lexus, Mercedes, or BMW ?

Hey, the cost gets passed onto the customer. Boom !

The fact that I have reduced you to this level of debate pleases me. I shows your complete void to factually discuss any topic. You are the board pariah.

Now if you think regulatory costs for a manufacturer are not passed on to the consumer, well then we cant carry on because your level of knowledge doesnt allow for a rational discussion.

[homersapien 11,409]

There is no such thing as free healthcare. Just because you're not paying for it doesn't mean it's not being paid for, by someone else.

And you're welcome.

Not a big fan of freedom, I see. As long as daddy govt tells you what you need, you're fine.

My god, you are such a loyal myrmidon to the Imperial Federal Govt.

I see you removed this little gem: "Cars are not mandated to have rear cameras. But it's not the govt's job to tell us what to pay for, what not to pay for." In the future how about a quick google search before embarrassing yourself.

"Today's final rule requires all vehicles under 10,000 pounds, including buses and trucks, manufactured on or after May 1, 2018, to come equipped with rear visibility technology that expands the field of view to enable the driver of a motor vehicle to detect areas behind the vehicle to reduce death and injury resulting from backover incidents. The field of view must include a 10-foot by 20-foot zone directly behind the vehicle. The system must also meet other requirements including image size, linger time, response time, durability, and deactivation.

"Rear visibility requirements will save lives, and will save many families from the heartache suffered after these tragic incidents occur," said NHTSA Acting Administrator David Friedman. "We're already recommending this kind of life-saving technology through our NCAP program and encouraging consumers to consider it when buying cars today." http://www.dot.gov/b...lity-technology

ACA makes you buy coverage you do not need and cannot use. My 26 year old single son has a policy that covers pediatric dentistry. They pay for that coverage to help Other people in their 50s and 60s have childbirth coverage.cover the costs for people who are still having children...

That was true before Obamacare. Virtually all policies including maternity coverage in their base coverage, especially if part of a group plan.

[AURaptor 1,125]

You didn't do any such thing USN your delusion perpetuates.

The people did not ask for this b.s. It's soundly rejected, and yet the Dems forced it on us anyway.

The straw man claim of " regulations " proves nothing. They are completely arbitrary, and ignore FREE market forces.

The govt has no business trying to tell us how to run our lives to this degree.

I had healthcare. I liked m doctor and my plan. I was told I could keep both. My plan no longer exists, and the one I have now is almost 2x what I was paying. What the hell business is it of the Federal Govt to tell me I should pay more ?

This is a bad bill, bad law, and it's only going to get worse, unless it's revoked.

[Mims44 1,884]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

And everyone has said "eff that" and kept to their own repub/demo slander.

so cool:)

[homersapien 11,409]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

And everyone has said "eff that" and kept to their own repub/demo slander.

so cool:)

Well, I have coverage for the first time in over 10 years, so I am very thankful for it.

[Mims44 1,884]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

And everyone has said "eff that" and kept to their own repub/demo slander.

so cool:)

Well, I have coverage for the first time in over 10 years, so I am very thankful for it.

Then you are the type it was meant to help.

I would never claim to understand all the intricacies invloved in Obamacare, but from what I can understand. it is the working middle aged that is paying for everyone else.

Middle aged being defined as non disabled working 24-65 year olds.

[autigeremt 6,660]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

And everyone has said "eff that" and kept to their own repub/demo slander.

so cool:)

Well, I have coverage for the first time in over 10 years, so I am very thankful for it.

And I'm going to lose some of my coverage and pay more in premiums so you can have it. I hope you appreciate it. jk

[cptau 169]

There is no such thing as free healthcare. Just because you're not paying for it doesn't mean it's not being paid for, by someone else.

And you're welcome.

Not a big fan of freedom, I see. As long as daddy govt tells you what you need, you're fine.

My god, you are such a loyal myrmidon to the Imperial Federal Govt.

I see you removed this little gem: "Cars are not mandated to have rear cameras. But it's not the govt's job to tell us what to pay for, what not to pay for." In the future how about a quick google search before embarrassing yourself.

"Today's final rule requires all vehicles under 10,000 pounds, including buses and trucks, manufactured on or after May 1, 2018, to come equipped with rear visibility technology that expands the field of view to enable the driver of a motor vehicle to detect areas behind the vehicle to reduce death and injury resulting from backover incidents. The field of view must include a 10-foot by 20-foot zone directly behind the vehicle. The system must also meet other requirements including image size, linger time, response time, durability, and deactivation.

"Rear visibility requirements will save lives, and will save many families from the heartache suffered after these tragic incidents occur," said NHTSA Acting Administrator David Friedman. "We're already recommending this kind of life-saving technology through our NCAP program and encouraging consumers to consider it when buying cars today." http://www.dot.gov/b...lity-technology

ACA makes you buy coverage you do not need and cannot use. My 26 year old single son has a policy that covers pediatric dentistry. They pay for that coverage to help Other people in their 50s and 60s have childbirth coverage.cover the costs for people who are still having children...

That was true before Obamacare. Virtually all policies including maternity coverage in their base coverage, especially if part of a group plan.

Yes, but it is more so now which is why the administration lied telling people they could keep there existing healthcare plans. The existing Plans that might exclude unneeded coverages were discontinued forcing those people to the more expensive plans that help lower the cost (and maintain the insurer's profits) of providing coverage to others. Some of whom were formerly uninsurable.

The only way the ACA was ever passed was by covering up those facts and buying off the insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Otherwise it would failed to pass quicker than Clinton's single payer plan in the 90s.

The current ACA is a flawed change to an existing flawed Heath insurance system.

I would much prefer that the US federal government get out of the healthcare and health insurance business and turn it over to the states. That is what the Canadians have done. Each providence runs its own Medicare system based On minimum standards set by the federal government and funding based taxes collected the federal and provincial governments. Some provinces provide more than the minimum coverage. You can also buy private insurance in Canada to supplement that Medicare coverage. Basically everyone in Canada has what Americans over 65 have as US Medicare (less drug coverage). The Canadians also did away with their VA type hospitals and turned it all over to the private healthcare providers.

[AURaptor 1,125]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

so cool:)

As I said, O-Care drove up my cost nearly 100%. I don't smoke, have no health issues, keep myself in decent shape, but screw that, I have to pay for others like Homie and USN here, and not 1 bit of gratitude. In fact, quite the opposite.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

so cool:)

As I said, O-Care drove up my cost nearly 100%. I don't smoke, have no health issues, keep myself in decent shape, but screw that, I have to pay for others like Homie and USN here, and not 1 bit of gratitude. In fact, quite the opposite.

Don't smoke? You don't smoke cigars?

[TheBlueVue 177]

It seems those who are thrilled by O-Care are those who either are getting insurance for the 1st time in years or those who are getting subsidized and paying minimally to nothing for it. There are many, however, including myself, who were satisfied with what they had but are now paying significantly more for less coverage.

There is quite a bit of whining about partisan rhetoric in this forum but for anyone to say criticisms of O-Care are absurd is the height of partisan rhetoric, especially when considering the number of people who either lost their job or, at the minimum, their full time status when the law became effective. Not to mention those who are paying significantly more for less coverage. When your premiums go up 70%+ and your deductible goes from $100. to $$7500. how can this be viewed as a good deal for those who have experienced this result? Add to that the number of uninsured has remained virtually static, i fail to see what the law has accomplished relating to serving the "greater good" which begs another question I have. Who defines exactly what the "greater good" is? As it relates to O-care, I'd say the law was passed on the back of a pack of well documented LIES. The cost curve on health care has NOT gone down, many could NOT keep the policy they had nor their doctors and NOBODY has saved an average of $2500 a year and this is being touted as a success? LOL..please!

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Healthcare costs are still rising. However, rising at an historically low rate. The number of uninsured Americans is dropping. Is that progress?

Wasn't the concept of healthcare in this country socialized before Obamacare? Was there a free market? Weren't prices artificially inflated? Was this to force people into buying insurance? Isn't the basic concept of spreading risk across society a social one? How about the well paying for the sick? Weren't the insurance companies controlling this socialization and essentially taxing society at their own discretion?

Was there, is there, any need for healthcare reform?

[TheBlueVue 177]

Healthcare costs are still rising. However, rising at an historically low rate. Is that progress?

Wasn't the concept of healthcare in the country socialized before Obamacare? Was there a free market? Weren't prices artificially inflated? Was this to force people into buying insurance? Isn't the basic concept of spreading risk across society a social one? How about the well paying for the sick? Weren't the insurance companies controlling this socialization and essentially taxing society at their own discretion?

Was there, is there, any need for healthcare reform?

You're a pro at belaboring the obvious. Of course healthcare reform is needed and, quite frankly, it is needed NOW more than ever! You seem to be hellbent on always comparing the real world to some utopian ideal that will never exist. The system we had, though flawed, was THE BEST in the world as it relates to access to care. What we have now is not better because it diminishes that access, so, to answer all your questions with a question of my own. Is change supposed to achieve improved outcomes or, are we to be satisfied because we simply changed one flawed system that MANY WERE HAPPY WITH, to a more flawed system so those on the left can beat their chests and say.."Alls well because the govt has your back"?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Healthcare costs are still rising. However, rising at an historically low rate. Is that progress?

Wasn't the concept of healthcare in the country socialized before Obamacare? Was there a free market? Weren't prices artificially inflated? Was this to force people into buying insurance? Isn't the basic concept of spreading risk across society a social one? How about the well paying for the sick? Weren't the insurance companies controlling this socialization and essentially taxing society at their own discretion?

Was there, is there, any need for healthcare reform?

You're a pro at belaboring the obvious. Of course healthcare reform is needed and, quite frankly, it is needed NOW more than ever! You seem to be hellbent on always comparing the real world to some utopian ideal that will never exist. The system we had, though flawed, was THE BEST in the world as it relates to access to care. What we have now is not better because it diminishes that access, so, to answer all your questions with a question of my own. Is change supposed to achieve improved outcomes or, are we to be satisfied because we simply changed one flawed system that MANY WERE HAPPY WITH, to a more flawed system so those on the left can beat their chests and say.."Alls well because the govt has your back"?

Can you support that statement with any data?

[AURaptor 1,125]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

so cool:)

As I said, O-Care drove up my cost nearly 100%. I don't smoke, have no health issues, keep myself in decent shape, but screw that, I have to pay for others like Homie and USN here, and not 1 bit of gratitude. In fact, quite the opposite.

Don't smoke? You don't smoke cigars?

Oh lookie, the Lifestyle police ! Yay !!!!

Last year I had maybe 1 cigar. In 2013, I probably had 3. Total. All year long.

What's your point ?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

so cool:)

As I said, O-Care drove up my cost nearly 100%. I don't smoke, have no health issues, keep myself in decent shape, but screw that, I have to pay for others like Homie and USN here, and not 1 bit of gratitude. In fact, quite the opposite.

Don't smoke? You don't smoke cigars?

Oh lookie, the Lifestyle police ! Yay !!!!

Last year I had maybe 1 cigar. In 2013, I probably had 3. Total. All year long.

What's your point ?

My point is, you have mentioned smoking cigars in this forum. You smoke. No big deal but, you smoke cigars. It doesn't bother me. I may be policing your honesty but, certainly not your lifestyle.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Healthcare costs are still rising. However, rising at an historically low rate. Is that progress?

Wasn't the concept of healthcare in the country socialized before Obamacare? Was there a free market? Weren't prices artificially inflated? Was this to force people into buying insurance? Isn't the basic concept of spreading risk across society a social one? How about the well paying for the sick? Weren't the insurance companies controlling this socialization and essentially taxing society at their own discretion?

Was there, is there, any need for healthcare reform?

You're a pro at belaboring the obvious. Of course healthcare reform is needed and, quite frankly, it is needed NOW more than ever! You seem to be hellbent on always comparing the real world to some utopian ideal that will never exist. The system we had, though flawed, was THE BEST in the world as it relates to access to care. What we have now is not better because it diminishes that access, so, to answer all your questions with a question of my own. Is change supposed to achieve improved outcomes or, are we to be satisfied because we simply changed one flawed system that MANY WERE HAPPY WITH, to a more flawed system so those on the left can beat their chests and say.."Alls well because the govt has your back"?

Can you support that statement with any data?

Yeah, simply tune into the world we live in genius. Doctors are opting OUT of the networks at an alarming rate. You do understand what that means right? You have to be brain dead or at least totally brainwashed to ignore the news about Doctors taking early retirement or simply not accepting O-care. The net effect of this is shrinking networks and a greater polarization of access to care to those who can afford to pay for it as they go. O-care is simply part B of the Holy Grail of liberalism following very closely behind income inequality is income redistribution. That's ALL O-Care really is at the bottom of it.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Healthcare costs are still rising. However, rising at an historically low rate. Is that progress?

Wasn't the concept of healthcare in the country socialized before Obamacare? Was there a free market? Weren't prices artificially inflated? Was this to force people into buying insurance? Isn't the basic concept of spreading risk across society a social one? How about the well paying for the sick? Weren't the insurance companies controlling this socialization and essentially taxing society at their own discretion?

Was there, is there, any need for healthcare reform?

You're a pro at belaboring the obvious. Of course healthcare reform is needed and, quite frankly, it is needed NOW more than ever! You seem to be hellbent on always comparing the real world to some utopian ideal that will never exist. The system we had, though flawed, was THE BEST in the world as it relates to access to care. What we have now is not better because it diminishes that access, so, to answer all your questions with a question of my own. Is change supposed to achieve improved outcomes or, are we to be satisfied because we simply changed one flawed system that MANY WERE HAPPY WITH, to a more flawed system so those on the left can beat their chests and say.."Alls well because the govt has your back"?

Can you support that statement with any data?

Yeah, simply tune into the world we live in genius. Doctors are opting OUT of the networks at an alarming rate. You do understand what that means right? You have to be brain dead or at least totally brainwashed to ignore the news about Doctors taking early retirement or simply not accepting O-care. The net effect of this is shrinking networks and a greater polarization of access to care to those who can afford to pay for it as they go. O-care is simply part B of the Holy Grail of liberalism following very closely behind income inequality is income redistribution. That's ALL O-Care really is at the bottom of it.

A simple no, without the insults, would suffice.

[AURaptor 1,125]

My point is, you have mentioned smoking cigars in this forum. You smoke. No big deal but, you smoke cigars. It doesn't bother me. I may be policing your honesty but, certainly not your lifestyle.

Yes. On occasion, I do enjoy a fine cigar. So frelling what ? I can count on 1 hand the # of times I smoke a cigar, over the course of a YEAR.

Cigars aren't cigarettes. If you're doing it right, you're not inhaling and holding the smoke, like one does w/ pot, or I assume cigs. As I don't smoke, you see, and never have, I'm GUESSING as to the specifics of cigarettes.

So, you claiming I " smoke " , because of that, and that I am somehow being dishonest ? That's nanny state b.s. on your part. I don't regularly smoke, at all. I do aerobic work outs several times a week, and my lungs are in damn fine shape.

By your twisted definition, if I have a glass of wine, EVER, I'm an alcoholic.

[AUUSN 823]

Amazing that I asked for peoples personnel info on how Obama care has impacted their lives a few pages ago.

so cool:)

As I said, O-Care drove up my cost nearly 100%. I don't smoke, have no health issues, keep myself in decent shape, but screw that, I have to pay for others like Homie and USN here, and not 1 bit of gratitude. In fact, quite the opposite.

Well, well. Boys and girls you have just received a peek inside the head of Raptor. It's quite sad really. No partner, I should not and will never show you any gratitude. My employer is the Department of Defense. When I signed my employment contract (Officer Commission) medical care was part of the compensation package. If you don't like my lucrative compensation (yeah right) then lobby congress to change it. Oh and by the way, you do know I pay Federal income taxes, right? So I'll just show myself some gratitude.