21 Christians Beheaded

[homersapien 11,367]

If Obama never golfed, terrorism would go away.

If I were President, I'd spend a lot less time on the course and more time working for the people. But hey, it is what it is.

Haven't we had that discussion enough already? :-\

Science has pretty much demonstrated that all work and no play makes for a "very dull boy". In fact, much of the research shows our greatest creativity is derived from "play".

That fact that Obama - or any other POTUS - takes "play" breaks doesn't bother me at all. I think minimizing those opportunities because of the work load - especially on problems you have very limited power to change - would be counterproductive if anything.

[homersapien 11,367]

Your point - if there is one - eludes me.

How many ways does someone have to say, "Obama sux" before you get the message that "Obama sux" is the message?

Well, one can always hope they will abandon the same old dead horse talking points for an original thought.

I don't know what they expect. Every time Obama visits a foreign country - especially an Islamic one - he get's hammered by the same people who complain about his "leadership". At least he hasn't "led" us into another hell hole.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

If Obama never golfed, terrorism would go away.

If I were President, I'd spend a lot less time on the course and more time working for the people. But hey, it is what it is.

Haven't we had that discussion enough already? :-\

Science has pretty much demonstrated that all work and no play makes for a "very dull boy". Just the opposite, much of the research show that our greatest creativity is derived from "play". That fact that Obama - or any other POTUS - takes "play" breaks doesn't bother me at all. I think minimizing those opportunities because of the work load - especially on problems you have very limited power to change - would be counterproductive.

Realistic or practical thinking has little to do with the "Obama sux" mindset.

[homersapien 11,367]

I guess we disagree. I think they believe they are the true Islamists.

No doubt. That would be typical of any religious extremist.

Except not just " any " religious extremists are beheading people, are they ?

No. It's mostly Islamic ones, for now.

See, even saying " mostly " is underselling it. 99% is more like it. Plus, the " for now " part is what throws some into fits of exasperation. It's almost as if you're saying " Sure, it's bad, but man, if Christians start doing this OMG! It'll be really REALLY bad !!!

It's really REALLY bad NOW.

And there's nothing to suggest that Christians or Jews or even Kurds will start recipricating with this sort of barbarism. And yet , you couch the discussion as if that's where we're headed, if anyone decides to stand up to these degenerates.

Let's hope it doesn't spread. The last thing the world needs is a generalized religious war. Right?

Open war is upon us NOW, whether you want to accept it or not.

I really don't think you understand what I mean by "war".

I suppose the term has become hopelessly devalued, or if not, you are far, far crazier than I thought.

And it's appropriate to use the word "mostly" if you don't want to throw our a figure - like "99%". (Are you sure you are accounting for the riots of enraged Buddhists, Hindus and Christians in the third world countries? Those don't get nearly the press that ISIS does.) So if you insist on specific figure then do the research and provide it. But pulling a number out of your ass doesn't really mean any more than "mostly")

And really, the fact you attack such trivial examples of rhetoric demonstrate you are just evading the real point:

Do you really support a general war against Islam?

Do you think that is a desirable outcome of opposing terrorism in the ME?

These are questions that can be answered directly. You don't have to waltz around them. No parsing of "mostly" is necessary, unless you are trying to justify an answer of "yes".

[homersapien 11,367]

If Obama never golfed, terrorism would go away.

If I were President, I'd spend a lot less time on the course and more time working for the people. But hey, it is what it is.

Haven't we had that discussion enough already? :-\

Science has pretty much demonstrated that all work and no play makes for a "very dull boy". Just the opposite, much of the research show that our greatest creativity is derived from "play". That fact that Obama - or any other POTUS - takes "play" breaks doesn't bother me at all. I think minimizing those opportunities because of the work load - especially on problems you have very limited power to change - would be counterproductive.

Realistic or practical thinking has little to do with the "Obama sux" mindset.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

But frankly I gave up reasoning with them a long time ago. You can't affect one's emotional responses regardless.

At this point, I am just trying not to let them "out-persist" me.

Actually, as an aside, I thought this graphic did more to convey the absurdity of the "Obama is golfing" argument. Particularly with the impressive trans-global graphics.

Like Tex, implied, if only he quit playing golf he could easily solve that problem.

[homersapien 11,367]

Parents don't give up their kids. It's an absurd idea from the start.

raptor: "Open war is upon us NOW, whether you want to accept it or not."

See, I knew you didn't understand what open war is. Lots of parents give up their kids in open war.

[homersapien 11,367]

aubfaninga.......first read the last line in Auburno6's post #6 above. That's the point.

The Quaran 2:191 says "and kill them wherever you find them...." That has often been interpreted by any as saying Islamists should kill infidels (non believers). That is what I was asking Auburn06. OK?

To be clear...... think ISIS is a bunch of extremist Islamic terrorists., and I think Aubun06and I agreed on that. That is what Obama won't call them and I far from being by myself in being critical of him for that unless you live in a cave.

In any event, the thread topic is about Christians being beheaded, not a theological discussion of Islam.

Do you understand why that is?

Do you understand that is exactly what the terrorist would like for us to do?

They do not want a war on terror. They want a holy war. Do we want a religious war?

Is it wise to temper our own words? Do we really want to play into the hands of the terrorists? Do we want to radicalize Islamic moderates. Do we want to encourage some of our own "would be" radicals?

The time for worrying about ALL that is long gone. We need to do what Obama said he was going to do...."degrade and destroy ISIL"..that is an exact quote. He's not dong a damned thing thats actually getting that done, presumably, because he and his ilk have persuaded so many like you that the whole thing is our fault anyway and we shouldn't do anything else to stir it up further. We need to do what HE said HE was going to do, period!

Just as long as someone else's sons or daughters is doing the fighting, right?

I quoted Obama. Are yo saying he didn't say that? BTW, I have a daughter who is active duty Air Force and she doesn't post in a politics forum all day long, everyday, day in and day out like you do. What? Are you worried about not having time to waste ALL DAY in here everyday?

Did he provide a date to expect "Mission Accomplished"?

[homersapien 11,367]

aubfaninga.......first read the last line in Auburno6's post #6 above. That's the point.

The Quaran 2:191 says "and kill them wherever you find them...." That has often been interpreted by any as saying Islamists should kill infidels (non believers). That is what I was asking Auburn06. OK?

To be clear...... think ISIS is a bunch of extremist Islamic terrorists., and I think Aubun06and I agreed on that. That is what Obama won't call them and I far from being by myself in being critical of him for that unless you live in a cave.

In any event, the thread topic is about Christians being beheaded, not a theological discussion of Islam.

Do you understand why that is?

Do you understand that is exactly what the terrorist would like for us to do?

They do not want a war on terror. They want a holy war. Do we want a religious war?

Is it wise to temper our own words? Do we really want to play into the hands of the terrorists? Do we want to radicalize Islamic moderates. Do we want to encourage some of our own "would be" radicals?

The time for worrying about ALL that is long gone. We need to do what Obama said he was going to do...."degrade and destroy ISIL"..that is an exact quote. He's not dong a damned thing thats actually getting that done, presumably, because he and his ilk have persuaded so many like you that the whole thing is our fault anyway and we shouldn't do anything else to stir it up further. We need to do what HE said HE was going to do, period!

Rubbish. You should strive to be more truthful.

Now wait a second. That would disrupt most of the "charm" contained in his posts! It would change the whole dynamic of his style.

Take the (unintended) humor out and there'd be no reason to read his posts at all.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Parents don't give up their kids. It's an absurd idea from the start.

raptor: "Open war is upon us NOW, whether you want to accept it or not."

See, I knew you didn't understand what open war is. Lots of parents give up their kids in open war.

Homer - you have comprehension problems as it is. Stop mixing up answers and replies from different posts.

ISIS has declared war on all those who don't agree w/ their ideology. How anyone can't understand that is pretty amazing. And Obama just asked Congress for more military action to do what ? Fight ISIS.

And sorry UNS, but parents don't send their 12 yr olds off to war. Not here in the US. Asking if anyone would SEND their children, when young adults freely sign up and volunteer, should be something anyone claiming to be active military would understand.

[AUUSN 823]

Parents don't give up their kids. It's an absurd idea from the start.

raptor: "Open war is upon us NOW, whether you want to accept it or not."

See, I knew you didn't understand what open war is. Lots of parents give up their kids in open war.

Homer - you have comprehension problems as it is. Stop mixing up answers and replies from different posts.

ISIS has declared war on all those who don't agree w/ their ideology. How anyone can't understand that is pretty amazing. And Obama just asked Congress for more military action to do what ? Fight ISIS.

And sorry UNS, but parents don't send their 12 yr olds off to war. Not here in the US. Asking if anyone would SEND their children, when young adults freely sign up and volunteer, should be something anyone claiming to be active military would understand.

Where did I ever say 12 year olds? Have you ever recruited? Have you sat in the living room of a recruit and sell parent? You dont think they have a huge part in their child's decision? So yes...... parents send their children off to war!

[DKW 86 7,419]

Since I don't know you, I have no idea what you know about Islam. Doesn't the Quran say they should kill infidels?

No, it does not. The sunnah(teachings of Muhammad) says to treat them with kindness.

the correct word is "kaffir" which simply means "non-Muslim"...though the word has been used in negative connotation.

The same kaffir?

The word kaffir is used in South Africa to refer to a black person. Now widely considered an offensive ethnic slur, it was formerly a neutral term for South African blacks.

The word is derived from the Arabic term kafir (meaning 'infidel'), which originally had the meaning 'one without religion'.^[1]

Portuguese explorers adopted the term to refer to black non-Muslim peoples when they became involved in the Arab slave trade along the Swahili Coast. Later, other European traders also adopted its use.^[2]

^{http://en.wikipedia....r_(racial_term)}

[AURaptor 1,122]

Parents don't give up their kids. It's an absurd idea from the start.

raptor: "Open war is upon us NOW, whether you want to accept it or not."

See, I knew you didn't understand what open war is. Lots of parents give up their kids in open war.

Homer - you have comprehension problems as it is. Stop mixing up answers and replies from different posts.

ISIS has declared war on all those who don't agree w/ their ideology. How anyone can't understand that is pretty amazing. And Obama just asked Congress for more military action to do what ? Fight ISIS.

And sorry UNS, but parents don't send their 12 yr olds off to war. Not here in the US. Asking if anyone would SEND their children, when young adults freely sign up and volunteer, should be something anyone claiming to be active military would understand.

Where did I ever say 12 year olds? Have you ever recruited? Have you sat in the living room of a recruit and sell parent? You dont think they have a huge part in their child's decision? So yes...... parents send their children off to war!

No. They don't. Not here. Mindless hyperbole , if ever there was any. They may be involved in whether or not their kid decides to join the military, whether in war or peace time. But the individual signs the papers. Not the parent. Mum and dad don't send Jr off to boarding school, and then directly into the military or some such.

[DKW 86 7,419]

Found the followup poll the article in August was referring to:

http://www.newrepubl...prising-results

How much grassroots support does the Islamic State of Iraq and Al Sham (ISIS) enjoy in key "coalition" countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon? Until today, one could only guess at the answer. Recent news reports about the arrests of ISIS adherents in all three of these countries add urgency to the question.

Now, however, a trio of new polls—the first ones of their kind—provides the hard data on which to make this judgment. The polls were conducted in September by a leading commercial survey firm in the Middle East, using face-to-face interviews by experienced local professionals. The sample was a random, geographic probability national sample of 1,000 respondents (nationals only, excluding expatriates or refugees) in each country, yielding a statistical margin of error of approximately 3 percent (visit this link for charts illustrating the data).

The most striking as well as encouraging finding is that ISIS has almost no popular support in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, or Lebanon—even among Sunnis. Among Egyptians, a mere 3 percent express a favorable opinion of ISIS. In Saudi Arabia, the figure is slightly higher: 5 percent rate ISIS positively. In Lebanon, not a single Christian, Shiite, or Druze respondent viewed ISIS favorably; and even among Lebanon's Sunnis, that figure is almost equally low at 1 percent.

Nevertheless, there is a real difference between almost no support and no support at all. Since 3 percent of adult Egyptians say they approve of ISIS, that is nearly 1.5 million people. For Saudis, the 5 percent of adult nationals who support ISIS means over half a million people. And even in tiny Lebanon, 1 percent of adult Sunnis equals a few thousand ISIS sympathizers. In any of these places, this is enough to harbor at least a few cells of serious troublemakers.

Another major caveat is that the nearly uniform opposition to ISIS does not extend to other political Islamist organizations. In Egypt, for example, a surprisingly high proportion—one-third of the total population—voices a positive attitude toward Hamas. In Saudi Arabia, that figure is even higher at 52 percent. Still more surprising, despite the Egyptian and Saudi governments' relentless crackdowns and propaganda campaigns against the Muslim Brotherhood, is the comparable percentage who say they view the group favorably: 35 percent in Egypt and 31 percent in Saudi Arabia. By way of comparison, Hezbollah, a Shiite Islamist organization, receives just 12-13 percent popular approval among Egypt's or Saudi Arabia's overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim populations.

On these and other issues, there is very little variation among Egyptians by various demographic categories. For example, the Muslim Brotherhood rates 37 percent approval in urban concentrations like Cairo or Alexandria; 35 percent approval in Upper Egypt; and 33 percent approval in the Delta countryside. The subsample of Egypt's Coptic Christians, fewer than 10 percent of the total, is too small to be statistically significant.

In Lebanon, by contrast, even as nearly all reject ISIS across the board, opinions about other Islamist groups are highly polarized by sect—but not always in the way one might expect. Hezbollah, as expected, is rated favorably by 92 percent of Shiites. Among Christians, that figure drops dramatically, yet still hovers near 40 percent. But among Lebanon's Sunnis, a mere 8 percent have a positive view of Hezbollah. More counterintuitive, however, is the relatively low level of support for Hamas among Lebanon's Sunni Muslims, especially so soon after the latest war in Gaza. Only one-fourth have even a "fairly positive" view of the Palestinian Islamist movement.

A further major point is that shared opposition to ISIS does not mean high ratings for the United States. In Egypt and in Saudi Arabia alike, America now has a dismal 12 percent approval number. In Lebanon, that number doubles to 25 percent, but again along a sharply polarized sectarian gradient: from 39 percent among Christians, to 30 percent among Sunnis or Druze, down to a measly 3 percent approval among the plurality Shiite population. To put these figures in perspective, China rates 38 percent positive among Saudis, 40 percent positive among Egyptians, and 54 percent positive among Lebanese.

One final key finding concerns popular attitudes toward two other common enemies of ISIS: Syria and Iran. In both Egypt and Saudi Arabia, favorable attitudes toward either the Iranian or the Syrian government barely make it into double digits. The relevant numbers in each country are stuck at merely 12-14 percent approval.

But in Lebanon, once again, sectarian polarization is the rule, in this case to an astonishing degree. Among the country's Shiites, both the Iranian and even the Syrian governments enjoy a 96-97 percent approval rating. Conversely, among Lebanon's Sunnis, Iran gets just 12 percent favorable reviews and Syria just 14 percent. Interestingly, however, Lebanese Christians fall somewhere in the middle on this measure: over a third (37 percent) give Iran at least a "fairly positive" rating, and nearly half (47 percent) say the same about Syria, where Bashar Al Assad's regime is sometimes viewed as their protector against ISIS and other Islamic extremists.

What do all these numbers mean for the current U.S. campaign against ISIS? Public opinion can be fickle, but for now several policy implications emerge from this analysis. First, Washington and its allies need not fear that ISIS might attract a mass following in these nearby Arab societies, or that a strong popular backlash might develop against U.S. airstrikes, or against our other Arab allies in this fight. But second, the United States would be well advised to target its actions very narrowly against ISIS—not against other Islamist groups that have recently come under American fire, and could well add to their substantial popularity as a result. And third, any U.S. overtures either to Assad or to Iran, as potential partners against ISIS, run a great risk both of further alienating the Egyptian and the Saudi publics, and of further inflaming the dangerous sectarian polarization among Lebanese at the same time.

[AUUSN 823]

Parents don't give up their kids. It's an absurd idea from the start.

raptor: "Open war is upon us NOW, whether you want to accept it or not."

See, I knew you didn't understand what open war is. Lots of parents give up their kids in open war.

Homer - you have comprehension problems as it is. Stop mixing up answers and replies from different posts.

ISIS has declared war on all those who don't agree w/ their ideology. How anyone can't understand that is pretty amazing. And Obama just asked Congress for more military action to do what ? Fight ISIS.

And sorry UNS, but parents don't send their 12 yr olds off to war. Not here in the US. Asking if anyone would SEND their children, when young adults freely sign up and volunteer, should be something anyone claiming to be active military would understand.

Where did I ever say 12 year olds? Have you ever recruited? Have you sat in the living room of a recruit and sell parent? You dont think they have a huge part in their child's decision? So yes...... parents send their children off to war!

No. They don't. Not here. Mindless hyperbole , if ever there was any. They may be involved in whether or not their kid decides to join the military, whether in war or peace time. But the individual signs the papers. Not the parent. Mum and dad don't send Jr off to boarding school, and then directly into the military or some such.

So you are another chickenhawk who is fine with this as long as it's someone else's kid.

[AURaptor 1,122]

\So you are another chickenhawk who is fine with this as long as it's someone else's kid.

Fine with what ? People making their own minds up, whether to join the military or not ?

Absolutely. Seems YOU have a problem w/ it, for some reason.

Love the name calling on your part though.

I win.

[AUUSN 823]

\So you are another chickenhawk who is fine with this as long as it's someone else's kid.

Fine with what ? People making their own minds up, whether to join the military or not ?

Absolutely. Seems YOU have a problem w/ it, for some reason.

Love the name calling on your part though.

I win.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Raptor....yep you win

[homersapien 11,367]

So you guys are fine with wasting other kid's lives as long as they are volunteers?

Man, that's the most succinct and compelling argument for a universal draft I've ever seen!

[AUDub 11,147]

They so proudly wear this insignia.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

"They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated—the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground. These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect." - Hebrews 11:35-40

[Wrights_Mill_Road 2]

this is like saying the nazis were Christians. sure, they waved their flags and whatnot, but what they did was hijack Christianity and warp it into a perverse, murdering cult.

[AURaptor 1,122]

So you guys are fine with wasting other kid's lives as long as they are volunteers?

Man, that's the most succinct and compelling argument for a universal draft I've ever seen!

I love how , almost exclusively, the Left make up a totally fictitious and baseless straw man claim, and then goes and builds upon it, as if they truly are shocked and stunned.

No one here is fine with ANYONE'S kids lives being 'wasted' in service for the country.

Seriously, how in the hell does your mind come to that conclusion ? Or are you simply set on TROLL mode, always, no matter what ?

[homersapien 11,367]

Parents don't give up their kids. It's an absurd idea from the start.

raptor: "Open war is upon us NOW, whether you want to accept it or not."

See, I knew you didn't understand what open war is. Lots of parents give up their kids in open war.

Homer - you have comprehension problems as it is. Stop mixing up answers and replies from different posts.

ISIS has declared war on all those who don't agree w/ their ideology. How anyone can't understand that is pretty amazing. And Obama just asked Congress for more military action to do what ? Fight ISIS.

And sorry UNS, but parents don't send their 12 yr olds off to war. Not here in the US. Asking if anyone would SEND their children, when young adults freely sign up and volunteer, should be something anyone claiming to be active military would understand.

LOL! When you contradict yourself it's hard not to point it out. First, you claim we are already in an "open war". Then you insist no one is actually offering up their kids since they are volunteers, as if the victim wasted their own lives, not the society that sent them to war.

Oh, and nice touch introducing 12 year-olds, as if by "kids" we were talking pre-teens. :-\

[homersapien 11,367]

So you guys are fine with wasting other kid's lives as long as they are volunteers?

Man, that's the most succinct and compelling argument for a universal draft I've ever seen!

I love how , almost exclusively, the Left make up a totally fictitious and baseless straw man claim, and then goes and builds upon it, as if they truly are shocked and stunned.

No one here is fine with ANYONE'S kids lives being 'wasted' in service for the country.

Seriously, how in the hell does your mind come to that conclusion ? Or are you simply set on TROLL mode, always, no matter what ?

BS. No straw man here.

You tried to disarm USN's point by discounting our responsibility of needlessly sacrificing young lives because they volunteered.

Now maybe you didn't mean it that way, but that was the way it came across.

[homersapien 11,367]

\So you are another chickenhawk who is fine with this as long as it's someone else's kid.

I win.

Now that's the mark of a loser if I ever saw one.