Charlottesville: Race and Terror – VICE News

[AUDub 11,153]

19 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Well then why did everybody complain about Trump when he said as much? Or to me for that matter...

Because he cast them as equally morally culpable. 

Because he has already established a track record of bigotry and pandering to white supremacists and neo-nazis.

The so-called "alt left" groups that were there to counter protest the white supremacists and neo nazis were at times violent and some of them probably went to Charlottesville fully intending to act violently against the fascists. That isn’t in dispute.

What is so appalling, is the manner in which President Trump equivocates violence of fascist, racist neo-nazis with the violence of the so-called "alt left." Two wrongs may not make a right, but there is a long history of fascist, racist and neo-nazi groups perpetrating grotesque acts of murder and genocide and who have sought domination over millions of people. At times successfully.

He knows his base well enough that he feels he can get away with this sort of equivocation. I trust the majority of the American public enough to see through it. There are some individuals I had thought thoughtful that have surprised me though (hint hint).

[homersapien 11,382]

18 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

"Drawing equivalence" ..is that another Alt left phrase pending a patent? From what I read, it sounded like he said both sides were at fault. If he castigated both equally for their roles this weekend, link it. And if he did, I'll adjust my view of Trump from "s***ty president" to "POS."

I am referring to the part of his statements to the press conference where he talked about (paraphrase) "their being good people on both sides". 

That's drawing equivalence.

(Still waiting for you to tell me who the "alt left" are.)

[aujeff11 6,243]

https://mobile.twitter.com/bocavista2016/status/897957503132151808/video/1

 

Ben's Antifa group has been doing some push-ups  ?

[homersapien 11,382]

30 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

I knew you had it in you. And it's about time. Good night.

I didn't say I was quitting.

I give up on making an honest and sincere effort to help you understand the distinction between culpability for violence and holding the moral ground.  Clearly, it's too nuanced for you.

Maybe you're still too young. 

[homersapien 11,382]

10 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Because he cast them as equally morally culpable. 

Because he has already established a track record of bigotry and pandering to white supremacists and neo-nazis.

The so-called "alt left" groups that were there to counter protest the white supremacists and neo nazis were at times violent and some of them probably went to Charlottesville fully intending to act violently against the fascists. That isn’t in dispute.

What is so appalling, is the manner in which President Trump equivocates violence of fascist, racist neo-nazis with the violence of the so-called "alt left." Two wrongs may not make a right, but there is a long history of fascist, racist and neo-nazi groups perpetrating grotesque acts of murder and genocide and who have sought domination over millions of people. At times successfully.

He knows his base well enough that he feels he can get away with this sort of equivocation. I trust the majority of the American public enough to see through it. There are some individuals I had thought thoughtful that have surprised me though (hint hint).

Ironically, even in this very demonstration.

[homersapien 11,382]

Using Jeff's logic, neither side held the moral ground in WWII. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

23 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Because he cast them as equally morally culpable. 

They're both responsible for letting the skirmish get out of hand. Only one side is responsible for the death of the woman.

 

23 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Because he has already established a track record of bigotry and pandering to white supremacists and neo-nazis.

It would've helped his image with Alt left, no doubt. But if he said both sides were at fault, he probably saw the same video that I did and merely distributed blame for the skirmish where he saw fit.

 

23 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

What is so appalling, is the manner in which President Trump equivocates violence of fascist, racist neo-nazis with the violence of the so-called "alt left." 

I've seen plenty of violence from both. I think you're just being a drama queen. Given the Alt left just threatened to drive through Google protesters in retribution, its safe to say that neither side are playing patty cake right now.

 

23 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Two wrongs may not make a right, but there is a long history of fascist, racist and neo-nazi groups perpetrating grotesque acts of murder and genocide and who have sought domination over millions of people. At times successfully.

You're right. Two wrongs don't make a right. The rebellions could've been handled differently. Don't kid yourself if you think we couldn't have put those Neo Nazis down on our own turf. They're fakes.

 

23 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

He knows his base well enough that he feels he can get away with this sort of equivocation.

You're right.

23 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

I trust the majority of the American public enough to see through it.

The majority elected him with race relations already on their mind. 

[AUDub 11,153]

13 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bocavista2016/status/897957503132151808/video/1

 

Ben's Antifa group has been doing some push-ups  ?

Holy s***, that Twitter feed is poisonous. 

[AUDub 11,153]

23 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

It sounds you like misinterpreted. When I said cast the first stone, it meant he was in a glass house. 

The Socrates comparison affirms my point. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

2 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Holy s***, that Twitter feed is poisonous. 

For real. Surely an Alt-lefty wouldn't write All Nazis must die on a 100 foot wall. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

The Socrates comparison affirms my point. 

No it doesn't. They killed Socrates for what he promoted. Your point is a sane person calling a Nazi an a**hole.

[aujeff11 6,243]

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Using Jeff's logic, neither side held the moral ground in WWII. 

America sure as **** didn't 

[AUDub 11,153]

4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

No it doesn't. They killed Socrates for what he promoted. Your point is a sane person calling a Nazi an a**hole.

A distinction without a difference, really. I could change the specifics if you prefer, but the point remains the same. No matter what the idea is, castigating them for having abhorrent, but legal ideas is immediately surrendering the moral high ground. 

[AUDub 11,153]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

America sure as **** didn't 

Wut

[homersapien 11,382]

4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

America sure as **** didn't 

 

I understand pacifism, but WTF?

[AUDub 11,153]

 

12 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

For real. Surely an Alt-lefty wouldn't write All Nazis must die on a 100 foot wall. 

Once again, there is no such thing as an alt left, not in any tangible sense. There are no alt left representatives in the government like there are alt right folks in positions of power.

Most of these people ANTIFA loons aren't even democrats. Don't know how many of them you've encountered or how much research you've done, but they're generally anarchists rather than having any ties to any political party.

[AUDub 11,153]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

 

I understand pacifism, but WTF?

I'm expecting a lecture on Japanese-American internment. Want to make a bet?

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Wut

We had a long drawn out discussion on this. And I'm never going to be fine with nuking an entire country including an entire citizenry including babies, kids, and women. 

[AUDub 11,153]

Just now, aujeff11 said:

We had a long drawn out discussion on this. And I'm never going to be fine with nuking an entire country including an entire citizenry including babies, kids, and women. 

I was wrong, it was the nukes he was planning on bringing up.

Laughable. Their own holocaust against the unoffending Chinese, Korean and Pacific Islander civilians easily doubled the number killed in the holocause in Europe. Yeah we targeted civilians in the course of the war and that's pretty shameful, but there really is no comparison. The devastation they leveled on Nanking alone, the rape, the murder, the human experimentation, dwarfs what we did in firebombing Tokyo and nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[homersapien 11,382]

11 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

I'm expecting a lecture on Japanese-American internment. Want to make a bet?

Bombing Dresden?  

[homersapien 11,382]

9 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

I was wrong, it was the nukes he was planning on bringing up.

Laughable. Their own holocaust against the unoffending Chinese, Korean and Pacific Islander civilians easily doubled the number killed in the holocause in Europe. Yeah we targeted civilians in the course of the war and that's pretty shameful, but there really is no comparison. The devastation they leveled on Nanking alone, the rape, the murder, the human experimentation, dwarfs what we did in firebombing Tokyo and nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Not to mention the casualities that would have resulted from an invasion of the home islands - on both sides.  

This boy is highly uneducated. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 minute ago, Bigbens42 said:

The devastation they leveled on Nanking alone, the rape, the murder, the human experimentation, dwarfs what we did in firebombing Tokyo and nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

If this makes you feel better inside. Firebombings go unnoticed to most Americans but they actually did more damage than the actual nukes...

 

2 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Yeah we targeted civilians in the course of the war and that's pretty shameful,

Right? If anything, we are not allowed to have a moral ground for that. If anything, I hope we pushed the button, drank whiskey for a year straight, and prayed that our dissonance would distort our memories and rescue us from the guilt. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Not to mention the casualities resulting from an invasion of the home islands - on both sides.  

This boy is highly uneducated. 

You're like the ad hominem King around here. It's a shame such a brain has to go to waste.

[homersapien 11,382]

2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

You're like the ad hominem King around here. It's a shame such a brain has to go to waste.

True.  I admit it.  I am wasting my talents.

Particularly regarding the time I've spent trying to enlighten you.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Just now, homersapien said:

True.  I admit it.  I am wasting my talents.

Particularly the time I've spent trying to enlighten you.

Trying to enlighten me that America can hold a moral high ground despite nuking Japanese citizenry?