AUDub 11,153 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: If this makes you feel better inside. Firebombings go unnoticed to most Americans but they actually did more damage than the actual nukes... Right? If anything, we are not allowed to have a moral ground for that. If anything, I hope we pushed the button, drank whiskey for a year straight, and prayed that our dissonance would distort our memories and rescue us from the guilt. Right because the Japanese were so much better about targeting civvies during the course of the war. They visited untold horrors upon their innocent, unoffending neighbors in their lust for expansion, killed tens of millions of people, raped millions, experimented on hundreds of thousands much like Mengele. We kill a paltry number in comparison grinding their fanatical asses to dust in an attempt to end the war ASAP. We are somehow equally morally culpable. What the **** ever, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnphan 6,050 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Has anyone heard how many Antifa members were actually in Charlottesville? I for one was expecting to see a large presence and through numerous videos I saw very little signs of Antifa members. To the dude calling them the alt-left, you are out of touch with what is going on. Antifa is a group of mostly anarchists who formed to stop the Hate groups by all means necessary and by that they are willing to go to battle. I can say I do not agree with how they go about executing their agenda but to say that they are the other side and imply liberal/conservative is just mind numbingly stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Trying to enlighten me that America can hold a moral high ground despite nuking Japanese citizenry? Yep. Granted, it takes a lot of reading to reach that point. But then, I have been reading for more than a half century whereas you haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: They visited untold horrors in their lust for expansion, killed tens of millions of people, raped millions, experimented on hundreds of thousands much like Mengele. We didn't nuke them for being barbaric to their neighboring countries. It took Pearl Harbor to join the war. Beforehand, we weren't in the world police business. Your point is kindve irrelavant. We nuked them because we didn't want to waste any more lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, auburnphan said: Has anyone heard how many Antifa members were actually in Charlottesville? I for one was expecting to see a large presence and through numerous videos I saw very little signs of Antifa members. To the dude calling them the alt-left, you are out of touch with what is going on. Antifa is a group of mostly anarchists who formed to stop the Hate groups by all means necessary and by that they are willing to go to battle. I can say I do not agree with how they go about executing their agenda but to say that they are the other side and imply liberal/conservative is just mind numbingly stupid. And it only takes a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, aujeff11 said: We didn't nuke them for being barbaric to their neighboring countries. It took Pearl Harbor to join the war. Beforehand, we weren't in the world police business. Your point is kindve irrelavant. We nuked them because we didn't want to waste any more lives. But the question is moral equivalence, which you say there was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, homersapien said: Yep. Granted, it takes a lot of reading to reach that point, but then, I have reading for more than a half century, whereas, you haven't. You'd think those books would make you smarter, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburnfan91 1,407 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, auburnphan said: Has anyone heard how many Antifa members were actually in Charlottesville? I for one was expecting to see a large presence and through numerous videos I saw very little signs of Antifa members. To the dude calling them the alt-left, you are out of touch with what is going on. Antifa is a group of mostly anarchists who formed to stop the Hate groups by all means necessary and by that they are willing to go to battle. I can say I do not agree with how they go about executing their agenda but to say that they are the other side and imply liberal/conservative is just mind numbingly stupid. Really? ..... Since you're more educated about Antifa than I am, are there members of Antifa that support Trump or the GOP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: You'd think those books would make you smarter, or something. Not necessarily, but they probably help. They certainly make you a lot more educated. You need to try it. Do you have a library card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,153 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, aujeff11 said: We didn't nuke them for being barbaric to their neighboring countries. It took Pearl Harbor to join the war. Beforehand, we weren't in the world police business. Your point is kindve irrelavant. We nuked them because we didn't want to waste any more lives. We fought them because the sucker punched us. We nuked them because their fanatical asses wouldn't capitulate. Our other options were to invade, risking millions, or starve them, extending the war and also likely killing millions. We won because they ****** up trying to sucker punch a country with 3 times their population and 10 times their industrial capacity. No matter how you slice it, we were the good guys. Of course we did some morally questionable things, but reality isn't contrasted that sharply. We were a much lighter shade of gray, by miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, auburnphan said: To the dude calling them the alt-left, you are out of touch with what is going on They're "anarchists" on the far left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnphan 6,050 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, homersapien said: And it only takes a few. Correct, but the way the right was building this up as the mega event, I thought Antifa would be out in full force 100's of them or more. I was commenting to many people after watching videos all afternoon that I was surprised that they were not there, cuz I saw no sign, I speculated that maybe they knew that crap was gonna go down and they knew that they would be greatly outnumbered...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,153 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said: Really? ..... Since you're more educated about Antifa than I am, are there members of Antifa that support Trump or the GOP? No, but most anarchists don't like the democrats either. See: Chomsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said: Really? ..... Since you're more educated about Antifa than I am, are there members of Antifa that support Trump or the GOP? If they are really anarchists, there probably are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnphan 6,050 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said: Really? ..... Since you're more educated about Antifa than I am, are there members of Antifa that support Trump or the GOP? They really don't support the establishment. To be honest they are dipsh*ts in my opinion with no actual focus or structure other than to fight racists and skinheads in recent years. I think their members go through phases, most are not involved very long, kinda like going punk or goth for a teenager....of course some never out grow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, auburnphan said: Correct, but the way the right was building this up as the mega event, I thought Antifa would be out in full force 100's of them or more. I was commenting to many people after watching videos all afternoon that I was surprised that they were not there, cuz I saw no sign, I speculated that maybe they knew that crap was gonna go down and they knew that they would be greatly outnumbered...... If there was anyway you could identify them from film, I would think a pretty good estimate could be made. I don't know if wearing masks would be definitive but it would be interesting to get an estimate on masked participates. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if someone, at some point, does that sort of research. Likewise, it would be interesting to try to estimate the number of physical assaults initiated by the alt right. Somewhat on the same subject, I heard that several militia groups that were present don't plan to attend such events in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: Our other options were to invade, risking millions, or starve them, extending the war and also likely killing millions. We very well could've starved them. But I get it, the spoils go to the victors so we didn't have to face serious questions/ international charges regarding the usage of nukes. 8 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: No matter how you slice it, we were the good guys. We were the winners. We weren't the good guys. We fought atrocity with atrocity. We imprisoned the Japs and we nuked them- ruining them for decades. 5 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said: We won because they ****** up trying to sucker punch a country with 3 times their population and 10 times their industrial capacity. It was dumb that they sucker punched us. They didn't think that through to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 11 hours ago, aujeff11 said: We very well could've starved them. But I get it, the spoils go to the victors so we didn't have to face serious questions/ international charges regarding the usage of nukes. Starving millions of people is more humane than killing a little over 200k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,153 Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, aujeff11 said: We very well could've starved them. But I get it, the spoils go to the victors so we didn't have to face serious questions/ international charges regarding the usage of nukes. Which very likely would have killed many more than the nukes. Would those people have been any less dead? Is killing a hundred thousand with a bomb that much more horrific than starving millions of them? 1 minute ago, aujeff11 said: We were the winners. We weren't the good guys. We fought atrocity with atrocity. We imprisoned the Japs and we nuked them- ruining them for decades. Actually, we were quite gracious in victory. More gracious than they deserved. We let them keep their emperor. We made their society much more free. That post war economic miracle that made them one of the worlds largest economies? They have us and our democratization of their country to thank for that. We're good friends now too. 1 minute ago, aujeff11 said: It was dumb that they sucker punched us. They didn't think that through to say the least. Ditto. And to make sure they never did it again, we could expect nothing less than complete capitulation, which they only offered after the shock of the nukes hit them. Even then, factions within the palace staged a coup in an attempt to continue the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: We were the winners. We weren't the good guys. We fought atrocity with atrocity. We imprisoned the Japs and we nuked them- ruining them for decades. War is hell. Would we have been more moral by losing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnphan 6,050 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, homersapien said: If there was anyway you could identify them from film, I would think a pretty good estimate could be made. I don't know if wearing masks would be definitive but it would be interesting to get an estimate on masked participates. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if someone, at some point, does that sort of research. Likewise, it would be interesting to try to estimate the number of physical assaults initiated by the alt right. Somewhat on the same subject, I heard that several militia groups that were present don't plan to attend such events in the future. There are usually several indicators including their flags, clothing and volume of noice. They make their presence known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Bigbens42 said: Which very likely would have killed many more than the nukes. Would those people have been any less dead? Is killing a hundred thousand with a bomb that much more horrific than starving millions of them? If they don't want to call mercy, it's their own fault if they have to starve to inexistence. Two bombs plus decades long of radiological effects left on the country though.. That's like shooting a rabbit with a .50 machine gun. Alternatives could been had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, homersapien said: War is hell. Would we have been more moral by losing? "War is hell" Well aren't you very bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: "War is hell" Well aren't you very bright. But you're the one who didn't seem to know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,382 Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: If they don't want to call mercy, it's their own fault if they have to starve to inexistence. Two bombs plus decades long of radiological effects left on the country though.. That's like shooting a rabbit with a .50 machine gun. Alternatives could been had. There's that ignorance jumping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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