White House flag returns to full staff two days after McCain's death

[TitanTiger 20,499]

5 hours ago, Elephant Tipper said:

Apparently you never kept up with the news.  McCain chose to attack American voters, calling them "crazies", in reference to Trump voters. 

Per usual, you hear what you want to hear, and exaggerate - which is what Trump does and you follow his lead.  McCain didn't call "American voters" crazies.  He simply that Trump's immigration rhetoric was "firing up the crazies."  Which was true.  The crazies are a subset of Americans.

 

[TitanTiger 20,499]

6 hours ago, Elephant Tipper said:

And you have to be an idiot to not understand the turmoil that McCain brought upon this nation by introducing fake intelligence to the FBI in order to undermine the duly-elected president of the USA.  He should have been held accountable for that but escaped it only because of his cancer.

McCain did what any person in his position should have done when handed information that could indicate illegal activity of a massive and dangerous nature - he handed it over to law enforcement.  It is not his job to investigate, nor to decide for himself whether it's something that should be looked info further.  That is the job of the FBI.  Held accountable?  He fulfilled his duty as a Senator and an American.  He should be celebrated.  

If Trump truly did nothing wrong and has nothing to hide, he should welcome the investigation.  But I think you and me both know that's likely not the case.

 

Quote

Honor required a senator who died while in office was dutifully fulfilled within the parameters established by President Eisenhower.  Get over it.  Trump wasn't boorish and he certainly didn't piss on JM's grave.  The only one who pissed on JM's grave was himself.  McCain's pettiness is what started this tete-a-tete between DJT and himself, which consistently he maintained through his remaining days.  He chose to be a jerk.

JM did serve America with distinction but minimized himself by being less than he promised.

Again, bull****.  And Trump knew he'd stepped in it by reversing the decision when veterans groups criticized his pettiness.  Stop hanging on Trump's nut sack for a second and you might see objective reality for once.

 

[TitanTiger 20,499]

7 hours ago, Mikey said:

Many of us would put the blame for that at Obama's doorstep.

Many of us who pay attention would take it back much further than that.  I noticed a serious ratcheting up from the normal heated political debates during the Gingrich/Clinton years.  It escalated all through his tenure, the other side (over) reacted in response during the GWB years, and then the conservatives returned in spades with Obama.

But honestly, I don't think any of them are on the level of Trump.

[Mikey 16,655]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Many of us who pay attention would take it back much further than that.  I noticed a serious ratcheting up from the normal heated political debates during the Gingrich/Clinton years.  It escalated all through his tenure, the other side (over) reacted in response during the GWB years, and then the conservatives returned in spades with Obama.

But honestly, I don't think any of them are on the level of Trump.

I can accept that it's been a developmental thing with the elected government officials. I used to go to WDC to visit congress every year or so. They used to work together but starting with the Clinton/Gingrich era the relationships became more hateful. I didn't really see that in the news or on the internet among the general population until Obama fanned the flames. I still don.t see it in person as much as the media would like us to believe. Places I go, people are still holding grocery store doors open for others and smiling at each other without regard to race.

[SaltyTiger 7,825]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Many of us who pay attention would take it back much further than that.  I noticed a serious ratcheting up from the normal heated political debates during the Gingrich/Clinton years.  It escalated all through his tenure, the other side (over) reacted in response during the GWB years, and then the conservatives returned in spades with Obama.

But honestly, I don't think any of them are on the level of Trump.

I am with you and Mikey on the development thing. There are so many available avenues to express hate and division. Much more exposure now for the general public. I am with Mikey in that I rarely see it on a personnel level

[TitanTiger 20,499]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

I can accept that it's been a developmental thing with the elected government officials. I used to go to WDC to visit congress every year or so. They used to work together but starting with the Clinton/Gingrich era the relationships became more hateful. I didn't really see that in the news or on the internet among the general population until Obama fanned the flames. I still don.t see it in person as much as the media would like us to believe. Places I go, people are still holding grocery store doors open for others and smiling at each other without regard to race.

People are generally worse versions of themselves online than they are in person, me included.  Some take it to extremes.

But that's why what Trump did here bothers me more.  It's one thing is some anonymous jerk on 4Chan, Twitter or Reddit is petty and vindictive and shows his ass toward those whom he disagrees with politically.  Certainly that behavior makes things worse overall, but the impact is lower.  The POTUS has an opportunity to 'set the tone' - for good or ill.  And Trump far too often chooses the latter when the country really needs the President to lead in doing the former.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Per usual, you hear what you want to hear, and exaggerate - which is what Trump does and you follow his lead.  McCain didn't call "American voters" crazies.  He simply that Trump's immigration rhetoric was "firing up the crazies."  Which was true.  The crazies are a subset of Americans.

 

As usual, you continue to write fiction and attempt to spin what McCain was actually doing.  JM's comments were aimed squarely at Trump voters and were in direct reference to the Phoenix Trump rally and the Trump supporters, not some ethereal "subset of Americans", the euphemism you've chosen to cover for McCain's denigration of Trump supporters.  McCain chose to directly demean fellow Republican voters.  JM didn't like the fact that Trump was taking a tough stance on immigration issues as the forefront of his campaign, which JM continued to undermine in the conservative movement and the DJT campaign.  This stance was a direct threat to JM's 2016 campaign, as he, himself, stated: “This performance with our friend out in Phoenix is very hurtful to me”.  And so McCain chose to denigrate American voters, calling them "crazies" in order to protect his own candidacy.  McCain chose to attack fellow American voters in order to protect his own candidacy as he himself stated.

I suggest that next time you do a little more clear-minded reading instead of maintaining the "anti-Trump at-all-costs bs " you fill this forum.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/john-mccain-has-a-few-things-to-say-about-donald-trump

[Elephant Tipper 430]

3 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

McCain did what any person in his position should have done when handed information that could indicate illegal activity of a massive and dangerous nature - he handed it over to law enforcement.  It is not his job to investigate, nor to decide for himself whether it's something that should be looked info further.  That is the job of the FBI.  Held accountable?  He fulfilled his duty as a Senator and an American.  He should be celebrated.  

If Trump truly did nothing wrong and has nothing to hide, he should welcome the investigation.  But I think you and me both know that's likely not the case.

 

Again, bull****.  And Trump knew he'd stepped in it by reversing the decision when veterans groups criticized his pettiness.  Stop hanging on Trump's nut sack for a second and you might see objective reality for once.

 

JM served on the following committees: Armed Services, Homeland Security, and Intelligence.  His was a Navy pilot.  Each of these require an excellent knowledge of intelligence and the need to identify bs from truth.  His bs meter apparently had the battery removed, on purpose, the day he received the Trump dossier.  McCain either failed that requirement of due diligence or he chose to promote the fake intelligence by passing it on to the FBI.  A person doesn't just hand a document to an intelligence dept., saying "look what I found on the street", without being thoroughly familiar with its contents yet the simple presentation of this fake document to the FBI was accepted....because it came from a patriot.  That patriot, John McCain, either failed to perform his own due diligence or was complicit in its promotion.  Take your pick.  Either way JM sought to undermine a duly-elected president.  As the investigation into the fake Trump dossier continues you will hear McCain's name mentioned more, along with Brennan.  They were the two of the funnels to give the fake document legitimacy.  McCain knew exactly what he was doing when he promoted fake intelligence or was turning a blind eye.
I'm sure we'll hear that JM was somehow duped.  Yeah, right.

And this is the stupidest comment you've made so far: "If Trump truly did nothing wrong and has nothing to hide, he should welcome the investigation."  Would you welcome a fake investigation from the local DA if a neighbor accused you of a fake case of pedophilia ?   "I think you and me both know that's likely not the case."

[TitanTiger 20,499]

2 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

As usual, you continue to write fiction and attempt to spin what McCain was actually doing.  JM's comments were aimed squarely at Trump voters and were in direct reference to the Phoenix Trump rally and the Trump supporters, not some ethereal "subset of Americans", the euphemism you've chosen to cover for McCain's denigration of Trump supporters.  McCain chose to directly demean fellow Republican voters.  JM didn't like the fact that Trump was taking a tough stance on immigration issues as the forefront of his campaign, which JM continued to undermine in the conservative movement and the DJT campaign.  This stance was a direct threat to JM's 2016 campaign, as he, himself, stated: “This performance with our friend out in Phoenix is very hurtful to me”.  And so McCain chose to denigrate American voters, calling them "crazies" in order to protect his own candidacy.  McCain chose to attack fellow American voters in order to protect his own candidacy as he himself stated.

I suggest that next time you do a little more clear-minded reading instead of maintaining the "anti-Trump at-all-costs bs " you fill this forum.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/john-mccain-has-a-few-things-to-say-about-donald-trump

Absolutely nothing in that article supports your contention.  He did not call all Trump voters crazy, much less "American voters" (which includes not just those who were supporting him back in 2015, but those who supported other GOP candidates, those who didn't know who they supported but couldn't support Trump, and those who supported various Democrat or independent candidates.  You are reading those sentiments into what he said rather than dealing with what he actually said.  I can't help that you are unable or unwilling to under stand basic grammatical principles.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

3 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

JM served on the following committees: Armed Services, Homeland Security, and Intelligence.  His was a Navy pilot.  Each of these require an excellent knowledge of intelligence and the need to identify bs from truth.  His bs meter apparently had the battery removed, on purpose, the day he received the Trump dossier.  McCain either failed that requirement of due diligence or he chose to promote the fake intelligence by passing it on to the FBI.  A person doesn't just hand a document to an intelligence dept., saying "look what I found on the street", without being thoroughly familiar with its contents yet the simple presentation of this fake document to the FBI was accepted....because it came from a patriot.  That patriot, John McCain, either failed to perform his own due diligence or was complicit in its promotion.  Take your pick.  Either way JM sought to undermine a duly-elected president.  As the investigation into the fake Trump dossier continues you will hear McCain's name mentioned more, along with Brennan.  They were the two of the funnels to give the fake document legitimacy.  McCain knew exactly what he was doing when he promoted fake intelligence or was turning a blind eye.
I'm sure we'll hear that JM was somehow duped.  Yeah, right.

It is still not his prerogative to just bury or ignore information like this.  If it was clearly made-up BS, then the FBI was the proper authority to look into it and make such a determination.

 

3 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

And this is the stupidest comment you've made so far: "If Trump truly did nothing wrong and has nothing to hide, he should welcome the investigation."  Would you welcome a fake investigation from the local DA if a neighbor accused you of a fake case of pedophilia ?   "I think you and me both know that's likely not the case."

Maybe "welcome" was a bit much (though accusations of possible election shenanigans being equated to accusations of pedophilia are a tad extreme).  But "not rant and Tweet like a batshit crazy teenager" about it isn't too much to expect from someone who knows there's nothing unethical or illegal there for anyone to find.

[SaltyTiger 7,825]

11 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Where have you been when I needed you the last couple of days?

I thought Trump was going to impeached after "hell hour" last week according to some folks around here so been laying low. Looks like that is falling apart fast though. 

Na, been a lot busier than I like with some work stuff I still do but that is fine. To hot to fish. Looking forward to spending a lot of time on the Plains this fall. Was up this past weekend looking after a few things. Catch you for coffee one morning soon.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Absolutely nothing in that article supports your contention.  He did not call all Trump voters crazy, much less "American voters" (which includes not just those who were supporting him back in 2015, but those who supported other GOP candidates, those who didn't know who they supported but couldn't support Trump, and those who supported various Democrat or independent candidates.  You are reading those sentiments into what he said rather than dealing with what he actually said.  I can't help that you are unable or unwilling to under stand basic grammatical principles.

Yes, the second paragraph directly supports my assertion: " He was particularly rankled by Trump’s rally. “This performance with our friend out in Phoenix is very hurtful to me,” McCain said. “Because what he did was he fired up the crazies.”   McCain was directly referring to Trump supporters.  I suggest you repeat third grade reading class.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

4 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

Yes, the second paragraph directly supports my assertion: " He was particularly rankled by Trump’s rally. “This performance with our friend out in Phoenix is very hurtful to me,” McCain said. “Because what he did was he fired up the crazies.”   McCain was directly referring to Trump supporters.  I suggest you repeat third grade reading class.

Let's see.  He's talking about one specific rally in one state on one issue and says in the course of that rally that his immigration rhetoric is "firing up the crazies."  You have to be an absolute blithering idiot to think that must mean he's indicting ALL Trump voters, much less "American voters" (which was your original contention).  He was referencing some Trump supporters, not all.  Some "American voters", not all.

Stop typing while you have some shred of dignity left.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

It is still not his prerogative to just bury or ignore information like this.  If it was clearly made-up BS, then the FBI was the proper authority to look into it and make such a determination.

John McCain had the proper authority to investigate this before presenting it to the FBI.  As a US Senator on the AS and Homeland Security Committees he had the necessary resources to give this fake dossier a more than thorough examination.  He chose to introduce this document in order to legitimize a prosecution of DJT, and that he accomplished.

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Maybe "welcome" was a bit much (though accusations of possible election shenanigans being equated to accusations of pedophilia are a tad extreme).  But "not rant and Tweet like a batshit crazy teenager" about it isn't too much to expect from someone who knows there's nothing unethical or illegal there for anyone to find.

Then, with the extreme, you get the point.  Imagine, a duly-elected president being called Hitler, fascist, or even "batshit crazy teenager" every day by enemies such as yourself, everyday.  Only a fool welcomes a fake investigation.  I'm sure you're open arms to being investigated.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Let's see.  He's talking about one specific rally in one state on one issue and says in the course of that rally that his immigration rhetoric is "firing up the crazies."  You have to be an absolute blithering idiot to think that must mean he's indicting ALL Trump voters, much less "American voters" (which was your original contention).  He was referencing some Trump supporters, not all.  Some "American voters", not all.

Stop typing while you have some shred of dignity left.

See, you write fiction, again.  I didn't say "all" as you claim I did.  Trump voters are American voters, or does that simple fact escape you ?  Apparently it does.  McCain was referring to the Trump voters in Phoenix (pay attention), McCain's own voters........“This performance with our friend out in Phoenix is very hurtful to me”.  McCain was very specific, direct and made no bones about it.  JM didn't like the attitude of the Trump supporters because it directly harmed his campaign.

You should stop while you are losing this argument.  You can't follow a 1 with a 2 in common sequential logic.  You should stop typing now.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

9 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

John McCain had the proper authority to investigate this before presenting it to the FBI.  As a US Senator on the AS and Homeland Security Committees he had the necessary resources to give this fake dossier a more than thorough examination.  He chose to introduce this document in order to legitimize a prosecution of DJT, and that he accomplished.

It is not the primary role of any of his committees to investigate this.  If anything, it would give the appearance of being more partisan or politically motivated to investigate it himself or through committees he's on than to hand it over to a non-political body - law enforcement.

 

9 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

Then, with the extreme, you get the point.  Imagine, a duly-elected president being called Hitler, fascist, or even "batshit crazy teenager" every day by enemies such as yourself, everyday.  Only a fool welcomes a fake investigation.  I'm sure you're open arms to being investigated.

Again, even if I was accused of something like this, instead of behaving like the batshit crazy teenager vomiting all over social media, I'd put down the phone and do things the right way.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

1 minute ago, Elephant Tipper said:

See, you write fiction, again.  I didn't say "all" as you claim I did.  Trump voters are American voters, or does that simple fact escape you ?  Apparently it does. 

Without qualification, it does.  Substitute "white people" for "American voters."  Grammatically, one would rightly assume, with no further explanation or qualification, that you were referencing all white people.  When you instead mean "some" white people, you say so.

 

1 minute ago, Elephant Tipper said:

McCain was referring to the Trump voters in Phoenix (pay attention), McCain's own voters........“This performance with our friend out in Phoenix is very hurtful to me”.  McCain was very specific, direct and made no bones about it.  JM didn't like the attitude of the Trump supporters because it directly harmed his campaign.

Then we are back to what I said - he referenced a subset of voters.  Not all American voters.  Not all Trump supporters.  Not even all of them in Pheonix.  Just the crazies, who are a subset of Trump supporters.  Why are you even arguing with me on this point now?  You made vague and overly broad statements and I corrected you to say that the "crazies" he referred to were merely a subset of overall American voters and Trump supporters.  Now you apparently agree and say that's what you meant all along?

Go to bed ET.  You're drunk.

 

1 minute ago, Elephant Tipper said:

You should stop while you are losing this argument.  You can't follow a 1 with a 2 in common sequential logic.  You should stop typing now.

Sorry, you look like an imbecile trying to turn this back on me after the cluster you just walked through above.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

It is not the primary role of any of his committees to investigate this.  If anything, it would give the appearance of being more partisan or politically motivated to investigate it himself or through committees he's on than to hand it over to a non-political body - law enforcement.

 

Again, even if I was accused of something like this, instead of behaving like the batshit crazy teenager vomiting all over social media, I'd put down the phone and do things the right way.

Who said it was the committee's primary role ?   I certainly didn't, but responsible intelligence means performing due diligence.   McCain did not do so.  Again, no one, I repeat NO ONE (of JM's standing) just picks up "intelligence" and says to the FBI, "Lookey here what I found when I was overseas.  Hey Mr. Comey how about checking this out ?"  McCain was either complicit or turned a blind eye.  Due diligence is mandatory of person in his position.  HE FAILED !  Miserably so, on purpose.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

1 minute ago, Elephant Tipper said:

Who said it was the committee's primary role ?   I certainly didn't, but responsible intelligence means performing due diligence.  

But it IS the FBI's primary responsibility.  It makes complete sense to simply hand it over to them and let them conduct an investigation to see if there's anything to it.  And it also removes (or does for sane people) accusations of politically motivated impropriety by removing McCain and other politicians from the equation.

 

 

[Elephant Tipper 430]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Without qualification, it does.  Substitute "white people" for "American voters."  Grammatically, one would rightly assume, with no further explanation or qualification, that you were referencing all white people.  When you instead mean "some" white people, you say so.

You're full of nonsense, complete nonsense.  There is no expansion to include "all", but only in your imagination there is.

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Then we are back to what I said - he referenced a subset of voters.  Not all American voters.  Not all Trump supporters.  Not even all of them in Pheonix.  Just the crazies, who are a subset of Trump supporters.  Why are you even arguing with me on this point now?  You made vague and overly broad statements and I corrected you to say that the "crazies" he referred to were merely a subset of overall American voters and Trump supporters.  Now you apparently agree and say that's what you meant all along?

Again, you keep stating that I said "all", I didn't, YOU did.  It doesn't matter the number, McCain's denigration was of fellow Arizonan Trump supporters, McCain's own voting base.  And Arizonans remember JM's colorful description of them.

 

6 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Sorry, you look like an imbecile trying to turn this back on me after the cluster you just walked through above.

Again, you're the idiot who keeps trying to put words in my mouth.

[homersapien 11,396]

5 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

Who said it was the committee's primary role ?   I certainly didn't, but responsible intelligence means performing due diligence.   McCain did not do so.  Again, no one, I repeat NO ONE (of JM's standing) just picks up "intelligence" and says to the FBI, "Lookey here what I found when I was overseas.  Hey Mr. Comey how about checking this out ?"  McCain was either complicit or turned a blind eye.  Due diligence is mandatory of person in his position.  HE FAILED !  Miserably so, on purpose.

Man, that's just crazy.  The duty of anyone who receives such information is to immediately turn it over the to FBI.  That's the proper and responsible thing to do.

Just as a candidate should immediately contact the FBI to report any involvement by a foreign source into the campaign.  It's their responsibility.

 

[Elephant Tipper 430]

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

But it IS the FBI's primary responsibility.  It makes complete sense to simply hand it over to them and let them conduct an investigation to see if there's anything to it.  And it also removes (or does for sane people) accusations of politically motivated impropriety by removing McCain and other politicians from the equation.

And again, McCain chose to not perform due diligence.  Only an idiot would not do so.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Man, that's just crazy.  The duty of anyone who receives such information is to immediately turn it over the to FBI.  That's the proper and responsible thing to do.

Just as a candidate should immediately contact the FBI to report any involvement by a foreign source into the campaign.  It's their responsibility.

 

And the FBI would be receiving 100 times more fake information from those individuals who can/should perform due diligence and JM was more than capable.  McCain pursued a fake agenda against DJT.  He promoted fake intelligence.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

4 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

And again, McCain chose to not perform due diligence.  Only an idiot would not do so.

Take another gulp.

[homersapien 11,396]

13 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

And again, McCain chose to not perform due diligence.  Only an idiot would not do so.

That's the FBI's job, not McCain's.