Sounds like someone is sowing some chaos.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

4 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

So Trump is responsible for the acts of lunatics now? He’s the X factor in this???

Trump is responsible for HIS RHETORIC. I know you aren’t this ignorant so I can only infer at this point your loyalty and devotion to Trump is blinding. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,046]

3 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

So Trump is responsible for the acts of lunatics now? He’s the X factor in this???

Nola are you serious right now? Do you think it helps the case, when the man they trust and have voted for to protect them and change their lives tells them that all of these people are out to get them and enemies? Nobody is saying that everyone who supports Trump is unstable enough to do things like this, but there are def unstable and mentally disturbed people who support the man and when he tells them their well being is in danger, they believe him and feel the obligation to do their part. 

[TitanTiger 20,563]

2 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I had the same thought. Even Kavanaugh lost his cool with that mob of Dems

This dude was on the bleeding edge of wingnuttery long before Kavanaugh.  A light breeze would have pushed him over the edge.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, GiveEmElle said:

Trump is responsible for HIS RHETORIC. I know you aren’t this ignorant so I can only infer at this point your loyalty and devotion to Trump is blinding. 

Yeah, just like you are for yours. Who argued otherwise? Were you not saying, earlier in the discussion, that Donald J Trump is responsible for acts such as sending explosives in the mail?

[AUDub 11,214]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

This dude was on the bleeding edge of wingnuttery long before Kavanaugh.  A light breeze would have pushed him over the edge. 

I mean, as if the van wasn't a dead giveaway.

[AuCivilEng1 11,046]

This has gotten ridiculous. Trump says that CNN and the Democrats are the enemy of America and trying to ruin everyone's lives. His supporters start doing shady crap and one of them sends explosives to EVERY SINGLE PERSON Trump has attacked, from Hillary Clinton, to George Soros and Eric Holder. But it has nothing to do with Trump. He has nothing to do with it. What world are you Trumpsters living in?! Blinded by your own pride. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

9 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Yeah, just like you are for yours. Who argued otherwise? Were you not saying, earlier in the discussion, that Donald J Trump is responsible for acts such as sending explosives in the mail?

What I’ve said is that his rhetoric is influential. Trump’s rhetoric could have influenced this man to view those people he chose to send bombs to as enemies. This is why EVERY OTHER POTUS has avoided inflammatory rhetoric. 

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

12 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Nola are you serious right now? Do you think it helps the case, when the man they trust and have voted for to protect them and change their lives tells them that all of these people are out to get them and enemies? Nobody is saying that everyone who supports Trump is unstable enough to do things like this, but there are def unstable and mentally disturbed people who support the man and when he tells them their well being is in danger, they believe him and feel the obligation to do their part. 

Yes, I want you to answer the question. I’m asking you whether or not Trump should be blamed for the perpetrator’s actions. Is he an intervening cause, without which the act would not have occurred?

Under your scenario, who is the problem, Trump or the psycho a**hole who hears something and subsequently convinces himself to send explosives in the mail? Is Hillary or Bernie to blame to for the attempted murder of Steve Scalise because of their anti-Trump rhetoric? Is CNN or MSNBC blameworthy? 

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

4 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

What I’ve said is that his rhetoric is influential. Trump’s rhetoric could have influenced this man to view those people he chose to send bombs to as enemies. This is why EVERY OTHER POTUS has avoided inflammatory rhetoric. 

IS that what you’ve said the whole time???

So when a man goes to such an extreme, how would you allocate the percentage of fault between himself and the President, objectively?

[johnnyAU 3,668]

11 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

This dude was on the bleeding edge of wingnuttery long before Kavanaugh.  A light breeze would have pushed him over the edge.

I agree. Anything could have set him off.  Doesn't mean it was Trump. Doesn't mean it wasn't. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,046]

1 minute ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Yes, I want you to answer the question. I’m asking you whether or not Trump should be blamed for the perpetrator’s actions. Is he an intervening cause, without which the act would not have occurred?

Under your scenario, who is the problem, Trump or the psycho a**hole who hears something and subsequently convinces themselves to send explosives in the mail? Is Hillary or Bernie to blame to for the attempted murder of Steve Scalise because of their anti-Trump rhetoric? Is CNN or MSNBC blameworthy? 

 

In this case. A case which you can literally find video evidence of Donald Trump personally mentioning every single one of these people being an enemy, yes, he holds some responsibility for what his lies and attacks on his enemys has caused. There's your answer. If it was just Hillary Clinton, you could have and argument that it's just someone who hates Hillary Clinton. But this specific case, every single person who got a bomb was mentioned by Donald Trump as being an enemy in one way or the other. And to clarify, I do firmly believe that if Trump had never mentioned any of these people or if he wasnt the president and in the spotlight, this almost certainly wouldn't have happened to all of these people.

[TitanTiger 20,563]

Just now, johnnyAU said:

I agree. Anything could have set him off.  Doesn't mean it was Trump. Doesn't mean it wasn't. 

However, that doesn't absolve anyone who is in the office of President from being more careful about their rhetoric.  Some people take the s*** they say seriously.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

Just now, NolaAuTiger said:

So when a man goes to such an extreme, how would allocate the percentage of fault between himself and the President, objectively?

Ultimately, law will only hold the bomb maker responsible. You know this. And everyone criticizing Trump’s rhetoric knows this as well. But Trump does bear responsibility for his words. They are influential now. 

[homersapien 11,571]

12 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Yeah, just like you are for yours. Who argued otherwise? Were you not saying, earlier in the discussion, that Donald J Trump is responsible for acts such as sending explosives in the mail?

Considering the arguments you have been making, it's kind of late to be asking that now.

(But the legal analysis contending Trump isn't directly criminally liable was very useful to all of us who thought he might be. ) 

 

 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

2 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

In this case. A case which you can literally find video evidence of Donald Trump personally mentioning every single one of these people being an enemy, yes, he holds some responsibility for what his lies and attacks on his enemys has caused. There's your answer. If it was just Hillary Clinton, you could have and argument that it's just someone who hates Hillary Clinton. But this specific case, every single person who got a bomb was mentioned by Donald Trump as being an enemy in one way or the other. And to clarify, I do firmly believe that if Trump had never mentioned any of these people or if he wasnt the president and in the spotlight, this almost certainly wouldn't have happened to all of these people.

Victimology 101

[johnnyAU 3,668]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

However, that doesn't absolve anyone who is in the office of President from being more careful about their rhetoric.  Some people take the s*** they say seriously.

I also agree. However, some are saying this guy's actions are a direct result. That is simply an unfounded leap of faith. 

Regardless of the impetus, the guy is responsible for his own actions, as are any individuals who commit violent acts under any circumstances. 

[alexava 6,974]

1 minute ago, johnnyAU said:

I agree. Anything could have set him off.  Doesn't mean it was Trump. Doesn't mean it wasn't. 

I’ll bet the farm, if you ask him he’ll tell you it was exactly Trump. The investigation will show it was trump, head shrinks will say it was trump. Early this morning I wasn’t sure what we were dealing with. Today it became utterly, totally crystal clear. If you are still looking for wiggle room to acquit trump you have your own issues. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,046]

What are we even arguing about here? If Barack Obama had gone on national television at one of his rallies and told his supporters that Fox News was an enemy to America and Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnel, and Sara Palin were trying to destroy their lives and destroy America, and one of his supporters went out and shot all three of them, Nola, Proud, and all the other conservatives would be calling for Barack Obama to be removed from office for causing violence. They know it. We know it. And anyone who spends more that 10 mins reading these forums knows it. This is just a case of blind prideful allegence.

[johnnyAU 3,668]

1 minute ago, alexava said:

I’ll bet the farm, if you ask him he’ll tell you it was exactly Trump. The investigation will show it was trump, head shrinks will say it was trump. Early this morning I wasn’t sure what we were dealing with. Today it became utterly, totally crystal clear. If you are still looking for wiggle room to acquit trump you have your own issues. 

I'm no Trump fan. I wish he would shut the heck up and quit Twitter in the process, and focus on his job. 

However, he is not directly responsible for this idiot's actions. 

[homersapien 11,571]

4 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

Ultimately, law will only hold the bomb maker responsible. You know this. And everyone criticizing Trump’s rhetoric knows this as well. But Trump does bear responsibility for his words. They are influential now. 

Nola doesn't believe that. He assumes we are idiots.  Right Nola?

[AUDub 11,214]

 

[homersapien 11,571]

5 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

I also agree. However, some are saying this guy's actions are a direct result. That is simply an unfounded leap of faith. 

Regardless of the impetus, the guy is responsible for his own actions, as are any individuals who commit violent acts under any circumstances. 

Who said that?

I think what people have said is that Trump has created an atmosphere of hate and violence which encourages such acts by people who are already inclined to do something crazy.

You and Nola with your straw man points of debate.  

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

In this case. A case which you can literally find video evidence of Donald Trump personally mentioning every single one of these people being an enemy, yes, he holds some responsibility for what his lies and attacks on his enemys has caused. There's your answer. If it was just Hillary Clinton, you could have and argument that it's just someone who hates Hillary Clinton. But this specific case, every single person who got a bomb was mentioned by Donald Trump as being an enemy in one way or the other. And to clarify, I do firmly believe that if Trump had never mentioned any of these people or if he wasnt the president and in the spotlight, this almost certainly wouldn't have happened to all of these people.

Does that allocate fault, though, in the sense that we should shake our fist at the President for what happened? This guy could’ve done numerous things “in the name of Trump.” I mean, what if had murdered all of those people? I’m really trying to pinpoint how far you, and your counterparts, extend the direct responsibility of Trump for unilateral unlawful acts engaged in by those who interpret his words.

[TexasTiger 13,235]

5 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

I'm no Trump fan. I wish he would shut the heck up and quit Twitter in the process, and focus on his job. 

However, he is not directly responsible for this idiot's actions. 

Not directly. But surely you recognize there are folks who respond to that kind of vitriol in violent ways.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Nola doesn't believe that. He assumes we are idiots.  Right Nola?

You’re definitely an idiot