Were Auburn fans spoiled?

[aubiefifty 17,269]

Were Auburn fans spoiled by Kevin Steele's defense?

Lance Dawe

2-3 minutes

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Auburn’s defense has been somewhat of a “bend don’t break” kind of unit.

The team has occasionally felt like it has bled yardage against its competition, even though Auburn is (usually) holding teams out of the endzone.

Are Auburn fans spoiled after having one of the best defenses in the nation during the Kevin Steele era?

Justin Ferguson of the ‘Auburn Observer‘ joined Zac Blackerby and the “Locked on Auburn Podcast” to talk about why this Auburn team is different and how fans should meter their expectations in year one of the Bryan Harsin era.

I think there is so much that’s unknown with this team… I just think (the Harsin era) is going to be different. Auburn fans for years never had a defense that they liked, and then they got a stretch with Kevin Steele where they were playing dominant defense. I think this year’s denfese has talent, and Derek Mason has done a good job making adjustments in game and closing well in the second half.

But this is a very different type of defense, and sometimes it may look like ‘oh, they don’t have any answers. They can’t stop Treylon Burks.’ The start at LSU was the same way, so you’re riding that momentum wave because things look different.

I think you look at the way this team is playing, with it being year one, as they are learning about things, they’re going to be riding the wave a little bit. I think fans will get more used to it as time goes on. However, I think the schedule combined with the fact that we are still learning how this team wants to run what they want to run will cause moments where the fans are like ‘oh, this is realy unexpected,’ but you can’t judge this team and make the same assumptions that you did in the Malzahn era… and I think it’s hard to break those habits.

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[bigbird 60,594]

No. I think AU fans got comfortable with the style of D he ran.  In time, they will love this type as well. Jimmies and Joe's...

[aubiefifty 17,269]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

No. I think AU fans got comfortable with the style of D he ran.  In time, they will love this type as well. Jimmies and Joe's...

i have no problem giving mason time. i remember his D's at stanford and they were great. i think folks are impatient but will be well pleased down the road.

[Guest MustardSeed]

20 minutes ago, bigbird said:

No. I think AU fans got comfortable with the style of D he ran.  In time, they will love this type as well. Jimmies and Joe's...

I don’t know. If it stays a bend but don’t break defense most fans (myself included) will despise the philosophy. Ted Roof never had many fans. Mason won’t either if he stays with that. 
If it’s just situational until we get guys better in the scheme then that’s a different ballgame. 

[bigbird 60,594]

4 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Ted Roof never had many fans

Which is telling. 

 

We weren't running Roof's D. He has always been a very aggressive, attacking DC

[Guest MustardSeed]

We’re we “spoiled” by Steele’s D versus Masons D?  No. We were given proper standards. Mason either gives us a top level D in the next couple years or he won’t be here.  Playing 10 yards off of receivers and waiting for guys to catch the ball in the opening in the zone before attempting to tackle them will never be accepted here. If that’s a player issue or a learning the scheme issue then Mason will get it worked out and “spoil” us as well. If that stays the norm he’s gone in a another year. Pulling for the glaring holes in the D to change and Mason to be the guy to fix it, but if he doesn’t we should get someone who “spoils” us. Masons Ds at Vanderbilt ended extremely badly. Let’s hope that’s not a sign of the future but due to other factors. I’m not sold personally. 

[Guest MustardSeed]

14 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Which is telling. 

 

We weren't running Roof's D. He has always been a very aggressive, attacking DC

Last year Mason brought in none other than Ted Roof himself to save his job. 
When they teamed up together they lost every single game, gave up over 33 points per game and gave up over 40 points in 55% of their games. They took the SECs 13th best defense and utterly destroyed it (not sure how that was possible). Doesn’t give the warm and fuzzies. There were EXTREMELY large red flags about his defenses when he was hired.  Just like Gus had lost ability to run top level offenses and the league passed him by, the same had happened to Mason. Hoping and praying there were other issues (recruiting maybe but also doesn’t bode well for our recruiting moving forward if that’s the case) and it wasn’t his scheming, but I personally don’t even remotely see a defense that is going to be able to stand up to top level offenses in this league. Hope I’m wrong. Willing to give him a little time to prove me wrong, but if we are still playing this awful soft zone next year, he’ll need to be going.  

[e808 3,028]

IMO to much credit is being given to those Stanford defenses (in which he was DC one year)that has been years ago. Offensive philosophies have evolved so much since then. Also Vandy wasn’t known to have stellar defense. The only year they were decent is with Cunningham and he was a baller. Auburn is already short on rotational players so it would make sense to get in and get out not on the field for long unnecessary periods of time.

 The same hype was around Van Gorder and we all know how that ended. It appears u need some Fairley or Terrance Kodi type guys in the middle to make this scheme work

Edited October 23, 2021 by e808

[aubiefifty 17,269]

10 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

We’re we “spoiled” by Steele’s D versus Masons D?  No. We were given proper standards. Mason either gives us a top level D in the next couple years or he won’t be here.  Playing 10 yards off of receivers and waiting for guys to catch the ball in the opening in the zone before attempting to tackle them will never be accepted here. If that’s a player issue or a learning the scheme issue then Mason will get it worked out and “spoil” us as well. If that stays the norm he’s gone in a another year. Pulling for the glaring holes in the D to change and Mason to be the guy to fix it, but if he doesn’t we should get someone who “spoils” us. Masons Ds at Vanderbilt ended extremely badly. Let’s hope that’s not a sign of the future but due to other factors. I’m not sold personally. 

vandy is not a fair comparison. i doubt they had very many studs on D. we have been badly hurt in the middle with injuries and a borrowed car. and a couple of those guys were what they called coaches on the field. i imagine bird knows more about it than i do. you know bird played for the seahawks for almost three years before he got hurt right? he just will not give his real name so he will not be bothered with autographs and such.................

[bigbird 60,594]

16 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

you know bird played for the seahawks for almost three years before he got hurt right? he just will not give his real name so he will not be bothered with autographs and such.................

 

On 7/11/2016 at 10:16 PM, RunInRed said:

5) No "unsubstantiated" rumors. Rule of thumb, if you dont have a link for it, don't post it. Keeps the goofy stuff to a minimum. In some cases we may make an exception on what's considered a legit source. Just don't hallucinate new rumors. We are not Tider Insider.

 

[Guest MustardSeed]

16 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

vandy is not a fair comparison. i doubt they had very many studs on D. we have been badly hurt in the middle with injuries and a borrowed car. and a couple of those guys were what they called coaches on the field. i imagine bird knows more about it than i do. you know bird played for the seahawks for almost three years before he got hurt right? he just will not give his real name so he will not be bothered with autographs and such.................

Well, we can compare Vandy to Vandy for a fair comparison right?

The last 3 years before Mason took over at Vandy they averaged 37th in the nation in opponents PPG. 

The last 3 years of Mason’s tenure at Vandy they averaged 90.6th in the nation in opponents PPG

He took over a defense that was giving up over the previous 3 season an average of 22 points a game and turned it into a defense that over his final 3 seasons averaged giving up 32 points per game. Even if you change that to not include last year with the tougher schedule, the 3 years prior they averaged 31 PPG.  The stats are bad.
He either shows us something he hasn’t over many years or he will be replaced.  Again, I’ll give him time to prove me wrong, but the evidence isn’t in his favor so he’s got an uphill climb. Maybe being with Harsin changes his way of thinking and he becomes amazing. MAYBE. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

5 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Well, we can compare Vandy to Vandy for a fair comparison right?

The last 3 years before Mason took over at Vandy they averaged 37th in the nation in opponents PPG. 

The last 3 years of Mason’s tenure at Vandy they averaged 90.6th in the nation in opponents PPG

He took over a defense that was giving up over the previous 3 season an average of 22 points a game and turned it into a defense that over his final 3 seasons averaged giving up 32 points per game. Even if you change that to not include last year with the tougher schedule, the 3 years prior they averaged 31 PPG.  The stats are bad.
He either shows us something he hasn’t over many years or he will be replaced.  Again, I’ll give him time to prove me wrong, but the evidence isn’t in his favor so he’s got an uphill climb. Maybe being with Harsin changes his way of thinking and he becomes amazing. MAYBE. 

There are two options with Vandy. Mason could not recruit and develop talent or his defenses aren't good anymore vs new RPO type offenses and he hasn't adjusted. 

Could be a little of both, we'll see. We might not have elite talent on defense. But I do think ppl are really selling the talent we have short.  We have really solid/good players at all 3 levels and NFL players at each.

There is zero reason we shouldn't be able to put together an above average defense....and we are. Right now we're sub 20ppg. So we're doing what we should.

Overall we're doing above average but I think there are a few areas that need direct focus vs some generic "bad defense" statement.

Our opponents comp% and passing yards is horrendous. Additional we are near league bottom in turnovers. 

[Guest MustardSeed]

7 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

There are two options with Vandy. Mason could not recruit and develop talent or his defenses aren't good anymore vs new RPO type offenses and he hasn't adjusted

Either of those 2 options scream impending disaster

I think we are actually having decent defense performance in PPG due to quality of our players. They make plays, though they are continually out of position. We do make some good stops on running downs and in the red zone. Everywhere else we are downright turrible. 
We can look at the big drop in db performance 2 ways. Either they are learning a new system and it hasn’t clicked yet, or they are being coached poorly. I think we as AU fans have seen enough DC changes over the year with opposing philosophies of the previous DC and have immediate positive impacts that we know something here may be off but at the same time we have to have some patience and trust that Harsin will do what is best for this team and will make sure our DC is making good decisions. I have some hope that Mason and Harsin together adjust the philosophy over time and create a top level d…but it’s not a lot of hope. 
I fully expect there to be a lot of folks screaming bad things after the Ole Miss game when we finally face a dangerous offense capable of destroying our soft zone. 

[aubiefifty 17,269]

9 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Either of those 2 options scream impending disaster

I think we are actually having decent defense performance in PPG due to quality of our players. They make plays, though they are continually out of position. We do make some good stops on running downs and in the red zone. Everywhere else we are downright turrible. 
We can look at the big drop in db performance 2 ways. Either they are learning a new system and it hasn’t clicked yet, or they are being coached poorly. I think we as AU fans have seen enough DC changes over the year with opposing philosophies of the previous DC and have immediate positive impacts that we know something here may be off but at the same time we have to have some patience and trust that Harsin will do what is best for this team and will make sure our DC is making good decisions. I have some hope that Mason and Harsin together adjust the philosophy over time and create a top level d…but it’s not a lot of hope. 
I fully expect there to be a lot of folks screaming bad things after the Ole Miss game when we finally face a dangerous offense capable of destroying our soft zone. 

one thing is i really trust coach harsin and if it is not getting done he will make some changes. i do believe this D is different from what he has run according to one of the asssitant coaches said in another article i posted. it is supposed to be something a lot of d guys are moving to because of the spread stuff. it was stated something about this d is big out west but sec coaches are looking more into this style because it worked better on spreads offenses. but that bend but do not break stuff makes me nervous.

[Guest MustardSeed]

4 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

one thing is i really trust coach harsin and if it is not getting done he will make some changes. i do believe this D is different from what he has run according to one of the asssitant coaches said in another article i posted. it is supposed to be something a lot of d guys are moving to because of the spread stuff. it was stated something about this d is big out west but sec coaches are looking more into this style because it worked better on spreads offenses. but that bend but do not break stuff makes me nervous.

Agreed. I trust Harsin to make the right call and even steer Mason in a different direction if need be or make a change (he’s already made one). The bend don’t break to me is horrible. I get the point is keeping the opponent out of the end zone, but giving them 30 to 50 yards every time they get the ball (1) keeps your D on the field getting tired which almost always backfires in big games in the 4th quarter (2) keeps your offense off the field and out of rhythm (3) keeps you losing the field position battle constantly forcing your offense to go long distances to score as they come in cold every series and (4) gives the other teams defense an almost guaranteed break between every series 

I think it shows that the downfall of bend but don’t break isn’t always the points it gives up, but the many disadvantages it constantly puts your own offense in. Teams like UGA don’t bend period. That’s always the best option.  Recruit the best players #1, #2 don’t bend or break. Many teams have had success with #2 while lacking in #1

Well, I’m out for a while with a date with my 10 yo daughter (bowling and shopping). 👋

[Hank2020 3,228]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Well, we can compare Vandy to Vandy for a fair comparison right?

The last 3 years before Mason took over at Vandy they averaged 37th in the nation in opponents PPG. 

The last 3 years of Mason’s tenure at Vandy they averaged 90.6th in the nation in opponents PPG

He took over a defense that was giving up over the previous 3 season an average of 22 points a game and turned it into a defense that over his final 3 seasons averaged giving up 32 points per game. Even if you change that to not include last year with the tougher schedule, the 3 years prior they averaged 31 PPG.  The stats are bad.
He either shows us something he hasn’t over many years or he will be replaced.  Again, I’ll give him time to prove me wrong, but the evidence isn’t in his favor so he’s got an uphill climb. Maybe being with Harsin changes his way of thinking and he becomes amazing. MAYBE. 

I definitely believe Harsin will influence. I don’t believe he is hands off on any aspect of his program.

[johnnyAU 3,668]

The problem with Mason's D will be Mason's departure after one year to be a HC. 

[tbone4jc 2,241]

Some of you are so pessimistic when it comes to our defense. We lost 3 d lineman that either started or was part of the rotation.  We are asked to blitz but when we do we get burnt. Asked to play man , we get burnt. Maybe we don't have the personel to be anything other than bend don't break? Maybe we dont have the speed or skill at all 4 positions on the d backfield to play any other style? K Steele wes good with Boomers recruits but after D Brown and Marlon Davidson graduated what did the d look like?

[e808 3,028]

23 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

Some of you are so pessimistic when it comes to our defense. We lost 3 d lineman that either started or was part of the rotation.  We are asked to blitz but when we do we get burnt. Asked to play man , we get burnt. Maybe we don't have the personel to be anything other than bend don't break? Maybe we dont have the speed or skill at all 4 positions on the d backfield to play any other style? K Steele wes good with Boomers recruits but after D Brown and Marlon Davidson graduated what did the d look like?

That’s a tough take being that last year was a Covid year and an all SEC schedule. The defense seemed pretty good IMO. The offense was the problem. The only game that was really bad was Bama and I recall the defense had some takeaways but the offense did nothing.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

42 minutes ago, e808 said:

That’s a tough take being that last year was a Covid year and an all SEC schedule. The defense seemed pretty good IMO. The offense was the problem. The only game that was really bad was Bama and I recall the defense had some takeaways but the offense did nothing.

Stats don't lie.  Look it up. I've posted the stat in another thread somewhere. With that being said why does Steele get a pass but not Mason? 

[aubcali 436]

4 hours ago, bigbird said:

 

 

I thought Bird played in the NHL.

[Hank2020 3,228]

5 minutes ago, aubcali said:

I thought Bird played in the NHL.

That doesn’t look like a “unsubstantiated  rumor” to me.

[oracle79 3,569]

6 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

Are Auburn fans spoiled after having one of the best defenses in the nation during the Kevin Steele era?

That's laughable. We were spoiled by 2 superbowl cornerbacks and Marlon Davidson and Derek Brown.

[e808 3,028]

31 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

Stats don't lie.  Look it up. I've posted the stat in another thread somewhere. With that being said why does Steele get a pass but not Mason? 

Auburn didn’t play any cream puffs last year like this year. Maybe I am missing the point. Also we have yet to see what the defense does against Tamu, Ole Miss, Miss State and Bama. Maybe revisit after those games

[Guest MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

Stats don't lie.  Look it up. I've posted the stat in another thread somewhere. With that being said why does Steele get a pass but not Mason? 

Ok. Just went and looked. I took out last year due to the different and tougher schedule (even though it was better than this year still….)

Years 2017, 18 and 19 we averaged giving up 20 points a game and had an average national ranking of 16th with the lowest being 23rd. 
We are currently 45th in PPG giving up an average of 23. 

In yards per game those years we averaged 29th in the country (with the lowest being 42nd) and gave up on average 351 ypg. 
We are currently 52nd in the country and giving up 378 ypg 

All this with some offenses ahead that will likely make our numbers worse for the season total than they are now. 

So which stats is it that don’t lie?  I guess I’m confused.  The stats show we have regressed in both major categories and are likely to get worse stat-wise by the end of the year 🤷‍♂️