If I were one of the PTB or Management (Pres, AD, etc.)

[gabo4au 228]

One thing I would do is put together a presentation and call a meeting with Harsin to go over a few things. Confront Harsin with the facts, if for no other reason than peace of mind.

- I would first do big picture. How do you compare with other coaches hired the past 2-3 years. How do you compare to Heuple at TN, KIffin at OM, Leach at MSU, Kelly at LSU, Beamer at USCe, Fisher at tamu, on and on. All of those schools have had something to hang their hat on. A better trajectory, better performance, better recruiting, better fan interaction, better energy. There is not one category where Harsin is competitive with any of them.

- Then I would talk players. He's run off many players, everyone from Bo Nix to Lee Hunter. Most of the time at least hinting that they didn't fit the culture that he's building. Ok, let's go with that. But what players have you brought in to fit the culture? What recruiting wins and inroads have you made to get us there?  What transfer portal guys have you brought in to move the culture in the direction you talk about? In competing with the above coaches, who are about as new as you are, you haven't won in any battles with culture. There is zero indication that you are building the culture you speak of.

- Then I would talk about building relationships. Relationships with the fans, relationships with high schools, relationships with anyone. What have you done in the way of building relationships with anyone? I don't see any entity that would proclaim he's even a friend or a good guy.

- Then I would talk about the money. I would confront him and ask him does he really think, based on the above info, that he deserves the millions of dollars we're paying him? What has he done to earn this money? Please tell me there is something I'm missing that deserves this money.

Would any of this matter or make a difference? NO.  But if I were one of the people who signed on, placed my trust in him, turned over the keys to him. I would at least have my say and confront him. Not in a "social media" drama filled rant. Not cussing, screaming and hollering. But in a professional presentation way, laying out the facts and giving him an opportunity to discuss and defend himself.

I, for one, was very excited when he came to AU. I supported him and bought in and would still buy in to the message, as it's a solid message. I thought he would be a very good coach for us. A slow methodical approach to building something good. Starting with the foundation and going up.

But I have to face the facts. I don't think I've ever seen such a complete failure in such a high paid position. It's incredible and he should be confronted with it and asked to explain his abysmal performance.  But I would also do it in private and not get into the public drama, so who knows maybe it's already happened or maybe it will happen. Hopefully I'll never know!

Edited October 23, 2022 by gabo4au
spelling

[ShocksMyBrain 9,389]

I would just show him his W/L record over p5 opponents and fire him. 

[Tiger Refuge 6,675]

My meeting….

[Mikey 16,777]

22 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

I would just show him his W/L record over p5 opponents and fire him. 

Yes. "The talkin's all dried up". ~~~From a John Wayne movie.

[LPTiger 5,202]

Well thought out post.   But, the people you are addressing i.e. the President and AD that signed on, hired and turned the keys over to Hars are no longer in those positions.

 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

2 hours ago, gabo4au said:

One thing I would do is put together a presentation and call a meeting with Harsin to go over a few things. Confront Harsin with the facts, if for no other reason than peace of mind.

- I would first do big picture. How do you compare with other coaches hired the past 2-3 years. How do you compare to Heuple at TN, KIffin at OM, Leach at MSU, Kelly at LSU, Beamer at USCe, Fisher at tamu, on and on. All of those schools have had something to hang their hat on. A better trajectory, better performance, better recruiting, better fan interaction, better energy. There is not one category where Harsin is competitive with any of them.

- Then I would talk players. He's run off many players, everyone from Bo Nix to Lee Hunter. Most of the time at least hinting that they didn't fit the culture that he's building. Ok, let's go with that. But what players have you brought in to fit the culture? What recruiting wins and inroads have you made to get us there?  What transfer portal guys have you brought in to move the culture in the direction you talk about? In competing with the above coaches, who are about as new as you are, you haven't won in any battles with culture. There is zero indication that you are building the culture you speak of.

- Then I would talk about building relationships. Relationships with the fans, relationships with high schools, relationships with anyone. What have you done in the way of building relationships with anyone? I don't see any entity that would proclaim he's even a friend or a good guy.

- Then I would talk about the money. I would confront him and ask him does he really think, based on the above info, that he deserves the millions of dollars we're paying him? What has he done to earn this money? Please tell me there is something I'm missing that deserves this money.

Would any of this matter or make a difference? NO.  But if I were one of the people who signed on, placed my trust in him, turned over the keys to him. I would at least have my say and confront him. Not in a "social media" drama filled rant. Not cussing, screaming and hollering. But in a professional presentation way, laying out the facts and giving him an opportunity to discuss and defend himself.

I, for one, was very excited when he came to AU. I supported him and bought in and would still buy in to the message, as it's a solid message. I thought he would be a very good coach for us. A slow methodical approach to building something good. Starting with the foundation and going up.

But I have to face the facts. I don't think I've ever seen such a complete failure in such a high paid position. It's incredible and he should be confronted with it and asked to explain his abysmal performance.  But I would also do it in private and not get into the public drama, so who knows maybe it's already happened or maybe it will happen. Hopefully I'll never know!

Why would you waste so muc htime and effort?  Just fire him because he sucks and be done with him.

[JBiGGiE 2,488]

2 hours ago, gabo4au said:

- Then I would talk about the money. I would confront him and ask him does he really think, based on the above info, that he deserves the millions of dollars we're paying him? What has he done to earn this money? Please tell me there is something I'm missing that deserves this money.

Would any of this matter or make a difference? NO. 

Waste of time. We made a legally binding contract with him based on his previous accomplishments and the current market on coaching contracts.

Deserved or not it doesn't matter. He is owed. Gone are the days of performance based incentives. You're not going to guilt or scold a coach into taking less than what is owed to him simy because he hasn't met your expectations, especially when said expectations are not a condition of one's employment.

[Mike4AU 1,739]

2 hours ago, gabo4au said:

One thing I would do is put together a presentation and call a meeting with Harsin to go over a few things. Confront Harsin with the facts, if for no other reason than peace of mind.

- I would first do big picture. How do you compare with other coaches hired the past 2-3 years. How do you compare to Heuple at TN, KIffin at OM, Leach at MSU, Kelly at LSU, Beamer at USCe, Fisher at tamu, on and on. All of those schools have had something to hang their hat on. A better trajectory, better performance, better recruiting, better fan interaction, better energy. There is not one category where Harsin is competitive with any of them.

- Then I would talk players. He's run off many players, everyone from Bo Nix to Lee Hunter. Most of the time at least hinting that they didn't fit the culture that he's building. Ok, let's go with that. But what players have you brought in to fit the culture? What recruiting wins and inroads have you made to get us there?  What transfer portal guys have you brought in to move the culture in the direction you talk about? In competing with the above coaches, who are about as new as you are, you haven't won in any battles with culture. There is zero indication that you are building the culture you speak of.

- Then I would talk about building relationships. Relationships with the fans, relationships with high schools, relationships with anyone. What have you done in the way of building relationships with anyone? I don't see any entity that would proclaim he's even a friend or a good guy.

- Then I would talk about the money. I would confront him and ask him does he really think, based on the above info, that he deserves the millions of dollars we're paying him? What has he done to earn this money? Please tell me there is something I'm missing that deserves this money.

Would any of this matter or make a difference? NO.  But if I were one of the people who signed on, placed my trust in him, turned over the keys to him. I would at least have my say and confront him. Not in a "social media" drama filled rant. Not cussing, screaming and hollering. But in a professional presentation way, laying out the facts and giving him an opportunity to discuss and defend himself.

I, for one, was very excited when he came to AU. I supported him and bought in and would still buy in to the message, as it's a solid message. I thought he would be a very good coach for us. A slow methodical approach to building something good. Starting with the foundation and going up.

But I have to face the facts. I don't think I've ever seen such a complete failure in such a high paid position. It's incredible and he should be confronted with it and asked to explain his abysmal performance.  But I would also do it in private and not get into the public drama, so who knows maybe it's already happened or maybe it will happen. Hopefully I'll never know!

[gr82be 14,502]

Talk is cheap and firing is expensive but I'd still just fire him. Silence is deafening in this case. 

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

1 hour ago, gr82be said:

Talk is cheap and firing is expensive but I'd still just fire him. Silence is deafening in this case. 

I can halfway understand not firing him till end of season.  However,  it makes no sense to not have an AD already in place 

[AUINSY 2,228]

2 hours ago, JBiGGiE said:

Waste of time. We made a legally binding contract with him based on his previous accomplishments and the current market on coaching contracts.

Deserved or not it doesn't matter. He is owed. Gone are the days of performance based incentives. You're not going to guilt or scold a coach into taking less than what is owed to him simy because he hasn't met your expectations, especially when said expectations are not a condition of one's employment.

This is a good point. We need to put those expectations into the contract. 

[subterranean_jack 112]

I know everyone feels let down. However, this needs to be handled professionally. The hiring was made following the chitshow of bungling the Cristobal hiring (maybe we dodged a bullet there) and then the chitshow earlier this year. Firing after only 2 seasons, whether warranted or not, will turn into another chitshow in the national media if not done with respect and making the case very much in the way the original poster did. We're already known as Chitshow U nationally. Let's try not to perpetuate the image any further. Please.

[IronMan70 3,277]

30 minutes ago, AUINSY said:

This is a good point. We need to put those expectations into the contract. 

$1M/SEC win, $750K/P5 win and a $250K salary for walk around money, is a contract where a GOOD coach can make a lot of money. A certain person who already has their bank might be interested in a regular season contract like that. If he made $8-10M with a contract like that, everybody would be happy.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

13 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

$1M/SEC win, $750K/P5 win and a $250K salary for walk around money, is a contract where a GOOD coach can make a lot of money. A certain person who already has their bank might be interested in a regular season contract like that. If he made $8-10M with a contract like that, everybody would be happy.

Sounds great until you step back and see that we live in reality.

[Hank2020 3,224]

53 minutes ago, AUINSY said:

This is a good point. We need to put those expectations into the contract. 

Thise kind if conditions are already built into the contracts: in the form of bonus/incentive pay.

[eaglenest 332]

41 minutes ago, subterranean_jack said:

I know everyone feels let down. However, this needs to be handled professionally. The hiring was made following the chitshow of bungling the Cristobal hiring (maybe we dodged a bullet there) and then the chitshow earlier this year. Firing after only 2 seasons, whether warranted or not, will turn into another chitshow in the national media if not done with respect and making the case very much in the way the original poster did. We're already known as Chitshow U nationally. Let's try not to perpetuate the image any further. Please.

21 mil for Gus and 15plus mil for Harsin, that my friend is tried and true unstableness at it's finest, any takers on this thread to help pony up ALL of these buyouts? y'all are begging for SOMEBODY else to take on this absurdity. You talk about the lack of recruiting now, just imagine who ever this mythical coach y'all want to see be name and he goes to see a kid and Kirby follow our coach and Smart then tells the kid son that coach will only be here for 2 years and Auburn will be again on the hook for his buyout you sure about that son.

[AUx 3,016]

[gabo4au 228]

3 hours ago, JBiGGiE said:

Waste of time. We made a legally binding contract with him based on his previous accomplishments and the current market on coaching contracts.

Deserved or not it doesn't matter. He is owed. Gone are the days of performance based incentives. You're not going to guilt or scold a coach into taking less than what is owed to him simy because he hasn't met your expectations, especially when said expectations are not a condition of one's employment.

 

I never said or even hinted at trying to recover any money from the contract. Yes we owe him and we'll pay him. However, if you're the entity that hired him,  you absolutely have the right to scold him and make him face his shortcomings.

And I'm not saying not to fire him. Yes, fire him. But put him in a meeting room in front of the people who put their trust in him and make him uncomfortable for a while. Make him face the facts and give some answers or excuses. And give him the opportunity to rebut and/or make his case for any excuse he has.

Look at it as a learning experience, an exit interview. Here are the things we are completely upset about, now you tell me your perspective. Maybe you have some good points, maybe there are things we can learn for the next time. AU and the PTB aren't without their problems and issues, let him make his case, if he has one, for how they undermined  him or didn't give him what he needed. 

Both sides can always learn how to do better and be better. He needs to understand that at this level, at this amount of money, no matter what the PTB does you still have your responsibilities to move things in a good direction. You have to win at least one category vs your peers. But the PTB also might need to hear that they need to also do things differently to put a coach in the position to be successful. 

It should begin as a very contentious meeting and end with everyone agreeing that both sides need to improve. And with that knowledge, let's both sides separate and move on to the next opportunity and DO IT BETTER!

[1716AU 732]

You give Auburn's Board way more credit than they deserve 

[AUINSY 2,228]

4 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

Thise kind if conditions are already built into the contracts: in the form of bonus/incentive pay.

Let’s do it also in contract buyouts upon termination. Not recruiting? No buyout. No recruits on signing day? No buyout. 

[AUINSY 2,228]

5 hours ago, IronMan70 said:

$1M/SEC win, $750K/P5 win and a $250K salary for walk around money, is a contract where a GOOD coach can make a lot of money. A certain person who already has their bank might be interested in a regular season contract like that. If he made $8-10M with a contract like that, everybody would be happy.

If a coach doesn’t sign a recruit on national signing day, that should cut their buyout upon termination in half. It should work for rewards as well as punishments. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by AUINSY

[Hank2020 3,224]

11 hours ago, AUINSY said:

Let’s do it also in contract buyouts upon termination. Not recruiting? No buyout. No recruits on signing day? No buyout. 

I’m sure all the best coaches will be running towards that contract,lol. Coaches usually have the upper hand in these negotiations.

[AUINSY 2,228]

1 hour ago, Hank2020 said:

I’m sure all the best coaches will be running towards that contract,lol. Coaches usually have the upper hand in these negotiations.

Any coach worth his salt would not be afraid of a contract saying he needs to sign at least 1 recruit on signing day. That’s the equivalent of you or me saying we must show up to work if we expect to collect a paycheck. Just wait until a few more Harsins and Jimbos rob these universities and embarrass them in the national media…

[EagleEye67 1,945]

On 10/23/2022 at 8:38 AM, gabo4au said:

 

Would any of this matter or make a difference? NO. 

That's what I got out of it

[AUINSY 2,228]

18 hours ago, gabo4au said:

 

I never said or even hinted at trying to recover any money from the contract. Yes we owe him and we'll pay him. However, if you're the entity that hired him,  you absolutely have the right to scold him and make him face his shortcomings.

And I'm not saying not to fire him. Yes, fire him. But put him in a meeting room in front of the people who put their trust in him and make him uncomfortable for a while. Make him face the facts and give some answers or excuses. And give him the opportunity to rebut and/or make his case for any excuse he has.

Look at it as a learning experience, an exit interview. Here are the things we are completely upset about, now you tell me your perspective. Maybe you have some good points, maybe there are things we can learn for the next time. AU and the PTB aren't without their problems and issues, let him make his case, if he has one, for how they undermined  him or didn't give him what he needed. 

Both sides can always learn how to do better and be better. He needs to understand that at this level, at this amount of money, no matter what the PTB does you still have your responsibilities to move things in a good direction. You have to win at least one category vs your peers. But the PTB also might need to hear that they need to also do things differently to put a coach in the position to be successful. 

It should begin as a very contentious meeting and end with everyone agreeing that both sides need to improve. And with that knowledge, let's both sides separate and move on to the next opportunity and DO IT BETTER!

good points. this should give the AU staff perspective on questions to ask, and should help them know what to say/do, and not say/not do with the next round of guys they interview.