The United Methodist Church is Undergoing a Schism

[TitanTiger 20,498]

49 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I believe the bible accurately relays the spirit of Jesus, His message, His commandments.

How do you determine what the “spirit” of Jesus, his message, and his commandments are?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

How do you determine what the “spirit” of Jesus, his message, and his commandments are?

The bible, His voice, being in His spirit.

[autigeremt 6,641]

Believe it or not (don’t blame you if you don’t lol) but I used to be the music director at Fairview UMC in South Carolina many moons ago. We were battling with this back in 1998. I’m kinda surprised it took this long. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

7 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Believe it or not (don’t blame you if you don’t lol) but I used to be the music director at Fairview UMC in South Carolina many moons ago. We were battling with this back in 1998. I’m kinda surprised it took this long. 

Whenever there is scandal or, controversy in a church,,, it usually originates with the music director. 

[TitanTiger 20,498]

13 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

The bible, His voice, being in His spirit.

What do you do when the Bible seems to contradict what you perceive to be his voice for being in his spirit?

[autigeremt 6,641]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Whenever there is scandal or, controversy in a church,,, it usually originates with the music director. 

That started when I started presenting contemporary/praise and worship on Sunday mornings. I thought I was going to get ran out the place. Lol 😂 

Edited November 15, 2022 by autigeremt

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

What do you do when the Bible seems to contradict what you perceive to be his voice for being in his spirit?

I have never known the words of Jesus to seemingly contradict His voice or, His spirit.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Just now, autigeremt said:

That started when I started presenting contemporary on Sunday mornings. I though I was going to get ran out the place. Lol 😂 

Oh brother,,, I've been to that church.

I used to sit with the kindly little old ladies at the Assembly of God church.  When the electric guitars and the drums came out,,, they got vicious.   They wanted the pastor, the music director and, everyone under 35 sent directly to the lake of fire.

[TitanTiger 20,498]

6 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I have never known the words of Jesus to seemingly contradict His voice or, His spirit.

Is the Bible and “the words of Jesus/God” one and the same?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Is the Bible and “the words of Jesus/God” one and the same?

The words of Jesus are the words of Jesus.  Still, Jesus is revealed by more than words.

[TitanTiger 20,498]

8 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

The words of Jesus are the words of Jesus.  Still, Jesus is revealed by more than words.

That’s not an answer to my question. Is the Bible the “words of Jesus/God” or is it not?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

29 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

That’s not an answer to my question. Is the Bible the “words of Jesus/God” or is it not?

The words of Jesus are the words of Jesus.  That is the only answer I can give you.  It is the truth.

[TitanTiger 20,498]

36 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

The words of Jesus are the words of Jesus.  That is the only answer I can give you.  It is the truth.

This sounds less like Christianity and more like some self-styled hokey New Age folk religion. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

51 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

This sounds less like Christianity and more like some self-styled hokey New Age folk religion. 

I'm very sorry you feel that way.  I think Jesus and His love are what it is all about.

I am sorry if I have offended you in any way.

[TitanTiger 20,498]

12 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I'm very sorry you feel that way.  I think Jesus and His love are what it is all about.

I am sorry if I have offended you in any way.

Puzzled perhaps.  A bit frustrated that you refuse to answer basic questions.  But not offended.

[AUDub 11,153]

Don't make me come separate you heathens. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Puzzled perhaps.  A bit frustrated that you refuse to answer basic questions.  But not offended.

I answered your questions to the best of my ability.  I don't believe you cared for the answers.  I wish I understood why.

[TitanTiger 20,498]

ok

[BizTiger 242]

On 11/14/2022 at 8:13 PM, SaltyTiger said:

Thought the Global was formed with churches that have taken a stance on the issue. 

I'm referring to the UMC as a global whole, not the new "Global Methodist" denomination. 

[AU9377 4,960]

On 11/14/2022 at 11:04 PM, TitanTiger said:

The conservatives have little choice but to leave.  They saw the mess and litigation that dragged on when orthodox Episcopal churches wanted to leave, and often had to leave behind church buildings and properties their great-grandparents helped build and generations of their families were baptized in because of clauses that granted ownership to the denomination.  Those congregations had to start over renting space from other churches or renting out storefronts.  All because the denomination had been taken over at the top by theological liberals who saw no problem ordaining bishops who denied the divinity of Christ, questioned whether Jesus was the only way to salvation, jettisoned traditional Christian sexual morality, and slowly turned the screws on the those who dissented from these moves.  

The UMC churches have a window that closes in 2023 that allows them to leave with their property so long as they pay into the retirement funds and some other financial obligations they owe.  They won't be left homeless by choosing to follow their consciences.  But if they don't leave now, then they will lose that window and will be trapped as a tiny minority in a denomination dominated by theological progressives with no real option to leave, unless like so many Episcopalians, they are willing to start over utterly from scratch.

It's sad to see what the UMC and TEC have become.  But people stuck it out as long as they could.  It became increasingly apparent that there was no will for coexistence, especially as the progressives gained more and more power at the seminaries and denominational leadership levels of both groups.  "Listening" and "conversation" was just code for waiting until they had the upper hand, and then people had to choose as the progressives pressed their advantage and ram-rodded through their changes.  I'm thankful that most faithful Methodists won't have to go through what refugees from TEC had to go through.

Be careful what you wish for.  There are many small churches that will choose to leave and within 10 years will be unable to afford a pastor or pay the bills associated with running a church.

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

12 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Be careful what you wish for.  There are many small churches that will choose to leave and within 10 years will be unable to afford a pastor or pay the bills associated with running a church.

Not sure what you consider a small church but many “community churches” have been in that position for years. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Following a pastor is not important.  Following a church is not important.  Following the bible is not important.

Following Jesus is everything.

[The Freak 2,528]

On 11/15/2022 at 5:42 PM, icanthearyou said:

They wanted the pastor, the music director and, everyone under 35 sent directly to the lake of fire.

That's where they belong... and the hands up people too!  😄

Lol, j/k - just stirring the puddin.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not sure what you consider a small church but many “community churches” have been in that position for years. 

As inequality increases, so goes the fate of any organization that cannot attract "capital". 

There is a reason for the "prosperity gospel".  There is a reason for introducing politics into the church.

A church that is striving for worldly ends has likely lost the spirit of Jesus.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, The Freak said:

That's where they belong... and the hands up people too!  😄

Lol, j/k - just stirring the puddin.

I've been to that church too.  Feeling the Holy Spirit will get you,,, "I'm sorry but, this probably isn't the church for you".  

Still, I've only been to one church where I was made to feel uncomfortable.  It wasn't so much the people.  They were actually quite nice but, when the box of snakes came out,,, I was on my way out.  Then, I saw the ladies putting out the weekly covered dish and,,, I decided to stay.  Squirrel meat with mushrooms, rice, gravy,,, delicious.