Does any one own an EV?

[Tigermike 3,027]

The all-electric Tesla Model S sedan has been on the market since 2012, and the electric Model X SUV since 2016. That's given the startup EV automaker plenty of time to analyze the batteries in its cars, and track how they lose some of their ability to charge and discharge over time. As degradation happens, the batteries lose functional capacity, and often the vehicle suffers a loss of a percentage of its available estimated driving range. You can track battery degradation by mileage, but batteries also degrade as time passes.

LINK

[Golden Eagle 365]

I drive a 2007 Prius and have averaged nearly 50 mpg over the past 16 years.  Battery was warranted for 8 years or 100,000 miles (which ever came first) but it's still doing its thing.  Even though this is a relatively small battery - and not the sole source of power for the car - its reliabiity/longevity has made me more open to an ev.  Prius uses regenerative braking to charge the battery so your brakes last forever, too - I'm still on original brakes.  I always try to maximize gas mileage so I take my foot off of accelerator when approaching a red (or yellow) light or a stop sign and coast so I only have to brake gently when I arrive at the stopping point - I'm sure that has helped extend the life of my brakes.  I think pure electric vehicles have this same feature?  And, of course, another benefit is that you have none of the mess or maintenance associated with internal combustion engines.

I'm currently considering an electric vehicle, also.  Like others, my concerns are charging infrastructure on road trips, purchase price, and what seems like quickly-changing battery technology.  I keep reading about advancements in battery technology and and charging time/technology and worry about buying before some of these become standard components that will drastically improve ownership of an electric vehicle.  Don't know whether I'll end up with an ev or another hybrid.  Here are some of the things I've come across as I've started my investigation:

1/  You may be eligible for a $7500 tax credit when buying an electric car.  (My 2007 Prius cost right at $24,000 with tax, title, and registration.  However, I got a $7500 federal tax credit on my 2007 taxes which brought my effective cost down to $16,500.)

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/07/1147209505/electric-car-tax-credit-climate-bill-tesla-volkswagen-ev

 

2/  What setup do you need to charge your ev at home and how much will that cost?

https://www.motortrend.com/features/home-ev-charging-installation-guide/

 

3/  Which ev should I buy in 2023?

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g40322167/best-electric-cars/

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/best/electric-cars/

https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/#all-wheel-drive-electric-suvs

 

4/ There are currently charging stations at many public libraries and Target stores (among other options).  And some parts of the country (e.g., California) currently have much better infrastructure than others (e.g., Alabama).  Federal Govt looking to have a network of 500,000 charging stations along highways across the country by 2030 - and - Tesla opening some of it's fast-charging stations to other ev brands. 

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/15/tesla-supercharger-network-open-agreement/

 

 

 

 

[Golden Eagle 365]

Hyundai Kona ev (subcompact) starting at $33,550

Hyundai Will Produce the Most Affordable Electric SUV After Its Rival Kicks the Bucket (msn.com)

[KansasTiger 3,248]

@RunInRed Pretty sure Wichita just had an EV bus catch fire while parked in the depot (they had been making the switch to electric busses). This is what I was talking about. It happens enough to some of these EV's that it should be a factor in your consideration.

[RunInRed 16,409]

Yeah, although, I guess there are examples of gas-powered engine fires too ... not sure this will be a deciding factor for me.  I just can't find an EV I really like yet at a reasonable price point.

[Didba 5,256]

Well, I just bought a 2005 Toyota 4-Runner Limited with 100k miles on it and in very good condition, switching from a Hyundai Genesis.  I went from 400 highway miles per tank in the Genesis to right at 500 miles in the 4-Runner after putting a Pedal Commander on it to boost the MPG on the highway. I also only paid $13,000.  Until these EVs can push 500 miles on one charge while not costing $45-50,000 I don't believe I will consider them.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for EVs. Just with my job I have to be able to make long drives on one tank to get to rural courthouses in Texas.

Just isn't feasible. Same boat as @RunInRed it seems.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Didba

[johnnyAU 3,630]

If I ever get one, it'll be as a short trip vehicle like many of you have stated. I do use a lot of battery tools...Ryobi drills, lawnmower, weed eater, etc...They use the same 18v batteries and chargers. If you have a smallish lawn, the yard tools are great. Medium yards, you might want to go 40v. 

I believe I heard that batteries for some of these EV's can be $15k or more. That's a concern. 

[AUBwins 10,075]

13 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

If I ever get one, it'll be as a short trip vehicle like many of you have stated. I do use a lot of battery tools...Ryobi drills, lawnmower, weed eater, etc...They use the same 18v batteries and chargers. If you have a smallish lawn, the yard tools are great. Medium yards, you might want to go 40v. 

I believe I heard that batteries for some of these EV's can be $15k or more. That's a concern. 

Yep I may have mentioned above but I got the 60v 6.0 amh battery in my Toro E-mower. Freaking love it.  Just enough to cut the grass twice without running out.  That battery came with it with only one port (that's all it needs). Some of them use multiple ports with smaller batteries. 

[Tigermike 3,027]

"EV drivers in Texas don’t pay at the pump, but will have to start paying a significant annual fee that critics are calling “punitive.” "

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[AUBwins 10,075]

16 hours ago, Tigermike said:

"EV drivers in Texas don’t pay at the pump, but will have to start paying a significant annual fee that critics are calling “punitive.” "

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Oh I figured taxes for EVs would occur.  States will find a way to make their money.  Although with the way Kentucky taxes owning a vehicle (gas or EV), nothing surprises me.  KY charges property tax on vehicles based on 80% of car value every year as a part of registration (basically depreciation). Instead of $50 like most states have, I have to pay like $500 a year for both vehicles!  But we don't tax groceries 🙄

[Tigermike 3,027]

"Current EV batteries "are really not designed to be recycled,"

LINK

 

[Tigermike 3,027]

Both lithium ion and lead acid batteries used in electric vehicles can be recycled — to a point.

It’s crucial to keep electric car batteries, especially lithium ion batteries, out of landfills because they are highly toxic and flammable. 

LINK

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

On 5/22/2023 at 11:35 AM, AUBwins said:

Oh I figured taxes for EVs would occur.  States will find a way to make their money.  Although with the way Kentucky taxes owning a vehicle (gas or EV), nothing surprises me.  KY charges property tax on vehicles based on 80% of car value every year as a part of registration (basically depreciation). Instead of $50 like most states have, I have to pay like $500 a year for both vehicles!  But we don't tax groceries 🙄

It's not just that "states will find a way to make their money."  EVs are substantially heavier than ICE vehicles because of the batteries and consequently, pavements will wear out more frequently.  If a state's gas tax is used to fund road maintenance and EV drivers aren't contributing to it, then states will have to find other mechanisms to fund their road maintenance.  There is no free lunch.  I'm hesitant to buy an EV.  The initial price is daunting for sure.  Effective range on a single charge is another limitation.  Keep in mind that using the A/C or the heater will cut into your effective range as they require energy to operate and that's only available from the battery in an EV.  Also, battery replacement is another daunting cost.  Finally, the fire issue that KansasTiger mentioned is real and can't be ignored.  When these types of batteries burn, they burn extremely hot,  emit toxic gases and are very difficult for fire departments to put out.  Hypothetical -- if your EV gets into an accident, maybe just a fender bender, is your EV battery OK or damaged?  If not, great.  If so, well the risk of it catching fire has just gone up.  How much has the risk gone up?  Literally, that's a $60k question.  

[Cardin Drake 1,827]

Toyota claims they can bring an EV to market by 2027 with a solid state battery that will give EVs 700-900 mile range.  Now we are talking. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/toyota-claims-solid-state-battery-breakthrough-will-give-evs-932-mile-range

 

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

22 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

Toyota claims they can bring an EV to market by 2027 with a solid state battery that will give EVs 700-900 mile range.  Now we are talking. 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/toyota-claims-solid-state-battery-breakthrough-will-give-evs-932-mile-range

 

That would be a game changer.  I've owned a few Toyota vehicles over the years and have always been impressed with their quality/reliability.  Here's an article about the different battery technologies that are being developed.  It's a brave, new world.  

[Tigermike 3,027]

An informative and interesting article. 

What to know before installing a home electric car charger

 

 

[Tigermike 3,027]

"...one common question among prospective EV owners is how much it costs to charge an electric car."

 

LINK

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

One other consideration is the (prohibitive) cost of repair bills for fender benders.  Here's an article of a Rivian truck that got hit by another vehicle.    Insurance company offered $1600, the repair came in at $42k:  

Ouch  

Quote

 

... The price tag was so high in part because the very minor accident "affected a panel that reaches from the back of the vehicle all the way to the front roof pillars of the truck," and the repair required the removal of both the ceiling and front windshield.

The extremely limited number of licensed Rivian repair centers also drives the cost up.  ...

 

 

[Tigermike 3,027]

How about an Electric bike?

 

QuietKat

[Tigermike 3,027]

Green with disappointment.   

Or - It ain't cheap to have an EV.

 

LINK

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

Interesting development:  Buyer's Remorse

Quote

The Journal Nature published a study revealing that of the folks who were early adopters of EVs in California (between 2012 and 2018), 20% of PHEV drivers have returned to fully gas-powered vehicles and 18% of full EV drivers returned to gas-powered–with their subsequent vehicle purchase.  ...  

The researchers found some other factors. Households with fewer vehicles were likely to “discontinue” their EV ways. Again, this makes sense because if you have at least one vehicle capable of long, gas-powered road trips, commuting in an EV might be more appealing.

There are two other factors that are a bit more mysterious. Any household that bought an EV and retained at least one less efficient vehicle was less likely to keep the EV. And women were more likely to try an EV and then return to internal combustion with their next vehicle than men.  ...

 ...

 

[AUloggerhead 2,231]

At first I thought about putting this one in the funny pictures thread, and then thought it belonged here instead: