Forward fumble into endzone

[AUTigerCourt 92]

I remember in the 2005 Auburn-UGA game we had a play that was fumbled forward into the endzone. It was recovered by a different player and was then called back to the spot of the fumble.

Tonight in the Holiday Bowl, Texas' QB McCoy fumbled the ball into the endzone and recovered by a different player. But it was ruled a touchdown.

Has there been a rule change or am I missing something?

[mowegl 4]

Youre missing something. The thing that was important about the UGA play is it was 4th down. The ball can not be fumbled forward on 4th down. It didnt really matter that it was a touchdown just that it was 4th down. Thats so you cant fumble it forward on 4th to pick up a 1st down or score a TD. You can still recover it, but the ball has to come back to the place it was fumbled from.

Ended up working out nicely for us in 05.

[bigsixfive 328]

I was thinking the same thing. Unless an ASU player touched it, the ball should have been down at the spot of the fumble... according to my rulebook anyways.

[DKW 86 7,441]

Youre missing something. The thing that was important about the UGA play is it was 4th down. The ball can not be fumbled forward on 4th down. It didnt really matter that it was a touchdown just that it was 4th down. Thats so you cant fumble it forward on 4th to pick up a 1st down or score a TD. You can still recover it, but the ball has to come back to the place it was fumbled from.

Ended up working out nicely for us in 05.

Man, thanks, that was an excellent explanantion. I had forgotten it was fourth down for a second.

[abrnfanatc 6]

I was thinking the same thing. Unless an ASU player touched it, the ball should have been down at the spot of the fumble... according to my rulebook anyways.

Only on 4th down.

[JohnDeere 0]

SECTION 2. Backward Pass and Fumble

During Live Ball

ARTICLE 1. A runner may hand or pass the ball backward at any time,

except to throw the ball intentionally out of bounds to conserve time.

PENALTY—Five yards from the spot of the foul; also loss of down if by

Team A before team possession changes during a scrimmage

down (A.R. 3-4-3-III) [s35 and S9].Caught or Recovered

ARTICLE 2. A backward pass or fumble may be caught or recovered by

any inbounds player.

a. If caught, the ball continues in play (A.R. 7-2-2-I and II).

Exceptions:

1. Rule 8-3-2-d-5.2. When on fourth down, before a change of team possession, a Team

A fumble is caught in advance of the fumble by a Team A player

other than the fumbler, the ball is dead and returned to the spot of

the fumble. If the fumble is caught behind the spot of the fumble by

a Team A player other than the Team A fumbler, the ball is dead at

that spot.

[WarTiger 3,922]

Youre missing something. The thing that was important about the UGA play is it was 4th down. The ball can not be fumbled forward on 4th down. It didnt really matter that it was a touchdown just that it was 4th down. Thats so you cant fumble it forward on 4th to pick up a 1st down or score a TD. You can still recover it, but the ball has to come back to the place it was fumbled from.

Ended up working out nicely for us in 05.

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

[mowegl 4]

Yeah I kinda forgot to mention that, but I was trying to keep it simple. Then Deere completed the explantion.

[weglchamp 0]

I believe the rule came from the NFL. They put it in after the "holy roller" play by the Raiders. The QB (Stabler I think) was about to be tackled and he fumbled the ball forward into the endzone to Dave Casper.

[bigsixfive 328]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

[WarTiger 3,922]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

[mowegl 4]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

[WarTiger 3,922]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

Answer mine above.... as for yours.... It would be either an illegal forward pass or illegal batting.

[mowegl 4]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

Answer mine above.... as for yours.... It would be either an illegal forward pass or illegal batting.

Pylon is part of the endzone. Ball fumbled into endzone and OOB is a touchback. Defending teams ball at the 20.

Does illegal batting include loss of down?

BTW what is really remarkable to me in 05 UGA is that the caused fumble knocked the ball toward the sideline. Aromashadu knocked it back into play with his hand trying to recover while in the meantime his foot just barely stayed in bounds for the time he was touching the ball. Then the ball bounced in the endzone without going off the sideline. Then CT made a perfect recovery - kept his body inbounds the whole time he recovered it, recovered it cleanly. If any of those things go wrong....touchback. Game, set, match.

Did we have Instant Replay in 05? Nvm pretty sure we did. I remember a few UK plays getting reviewed.

[WarEagle007 1]

What is the purpose of that 4th down rule anyways? Are they trying to prevent players from fumbling intentionally to get a first down?

[WarTiger 3,922]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

Answer mine above.... as for yours.... It would be either an illegal forward pass or illegal batting.

Pylon is part of the endzone. Ball fumbled into endzone and OOB is a touchback. Defending teams ball at the 20.

You are correct. The other night in one of the bowl games (can't remember which one) the offense had the ball at their opponents 4 yard line. they ran a little dump pass where the receiver turned toward the sideline and went up field to try to score. When he left his feet he dove for the endzone and when he reached the ball forward, he lost the ball, then he lands out of bounds without the ball. The ball in flight from the 1 yard line, hits the pilon and goes out of bounds. officials gave them the ball at the ONE.... They hosed it bad...

Does illegal batting include loss of down?

Not sure, I'll have to look that up. Can't remember.

BTW what is really remarkable to me in 05 UGA is that the caused fumble knocked the ball toward the sideline. Aromashadu knocked it back into play with his hand trying to recover while in the meantime his foot just barely stayed in bounds for the time he was touching the ball. Then the ball bounced in the endzone without going off the sideline. Then CT made a perfect recovery - kept his body inbounds the whole time he recovered it, recovered it cleanly. If any of those things go wrong....touchback. Game, set, match.

I can look up the play, but I'm pretty sure that nobody touched the ball after it was punched loose in the field of play until CT recovered it in the endzone. If i remember correctly he didn't step out of bounds, but I don't think he touched the ball either, until he fell on it.. But, you are right, if any of those things go differently, the game would have been over.

Did we have Instant Replay in 05? Nvm pretty sure we did. I remember a few UK plays getting reviewed.

I'm pretty sure we did.

What is the purpose of that 4th down rule anyways? Are they trying to prevent players from fumbling intentionally to get a first down?

I think its only purpose to to force you to EARN the first down and not get it by making a mistake such as fumbling the ball. As I said earlier, no player would ever risk fumbling the ball intentionally to gain extra yards, the risk is just too large. Besides, if he did intentionally fumble the ball forward, then he had to either "throw" it or bat it forward, and both are illegal by rule.

[mowegl 4]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

Answer mine above.... as for yours.... It would be either an illegal forward pass or illegal batting.

Pylon is part of the endzone. Ball fumbled into endzone and OOB is a touchback. Defending teams ball at the 20.

You are correct. The other night in one of the bowl games (can't remember which one) the offense had the ball at their opponents 4 yard line. they ran a little dump pass where the receiver turned toward the sideline and went up field to try to score. When he left his feet he dove for the endzone and when he reached the ball forward, he lost the ball, then he lands out of bounds without the ball. The ball in flight from the 1 yard line, hits the pilon and goes out of bounds. officials gave them the ball at the ONE.... They hosed it bad...

Does illegal batting include loss of down?

Not sure, I'll have to look that up. Can't remember.

BTW what is really remarkable to me in 05 UGA is that the caused fumble knocked the ball toward the sideline. Aromashadu knocked it back into play with his hand trying to recover while in the meantime his foot just barely stayed in bounds for the time he was touching the ball. Then the ball bounced in the endzone without going off the sideline. Then CT made a perfect recovery - kept his body inbounds the whole time he recovered it, recovered it cleanly. If any of those things go wrong....touchback. Game, set, match.

I can look up the play, but I'm pretty sure that nobody touched the ball after it was punched loose in the field of play until CT recovered it in the endzone. If i remember correctly he didn't step out of bounds, but I don't think he touched the ball either, until he fell on it.. But, you are right, if any of those things go differently, the game would have been over.

Watch the play again its pretty remarkable.

After the ball was punched lose it was in the air still and heading in the direction of the sideline. Devin reached up with his right hand to try to get it and basically slapped it back in..had he actually caught it then he probably would have been out of bounds by the time he got control, and if he hadnt hit it, it would have gone out as well.

[WarTiger 3,922]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

Answer mine above.... as for yours.... It would be either an illegal forward pass or illegal batting.

Pylon is part of the endzone. Ball fumbled into endzone and OOB is a touchback. Defending teams ball at the 20.

You are correct. The other night in one of the bowl games (can't remember which one) the offense had the ball at their opponents 4 yard line. they ran a little dump pass where the receiver turned toward the sideline and went up field to try to score. When he left his feet he dove for the endzone and when he reached the ball forward, he lost the ball, then he lands out of bounds without the ball. The ball in flight from the 1 yard line, hits the pilon and goes out of bounds. officials gave them the ball at the ONE.... They hosed it bad...

Does illegal batting include loss of down?

Not sure, I'll have to look that up. Can't remember.

BTW what is really remarkable to me in 05 UGA is that the caused fumble knocked the ball toward the sideline. Aromashadu knocked it back into play with his hand trying to recover while in the meantime his foot just barely stayed in bounds for the time he was touching the ball. Then the ball bounced in the endzone without going off the sideline. Then CT made a perfect recovery - kept his body inbounds the whole time he recovered it, recovered it cleanly. If any of those things go wrong....touchback. Game, set, match.

I can look up the play, but I'm pretty sure that nobody touched the ball after it was punched loose in the field of play until CT recovered it in the endzone. If i remember correctly he didn't step out of bounds, but I don't think he touched the ball either, until he fell on it.. But, you are right, if any of those things go differently, the game would have been over.

Watch the play again its pretty remarkable.

After the ball was punched lose it was in the air still and heading in the direction of the sideline. Devin reached up with his right hand to try to get it and basically slapped it back in..had he actually caught it then he probably would have been out of bounds by the time he got control, and if he hadnt hit it, it would have gone out as well.

while it was remarkable, it didn't happen that way. I just watched it again (I have it on the harddrive) and yes he reached up to recover it while it was in the air, but he reached with his left hand and he was well in bounds at the time and if he touched it at all, he BARELY touched it, then CT came in and recovered it. Regardless if he tipped it or not, I don't think it goes out of bounds. If he touched it at all, it wasn't enough to change the direction of the ball. He certainly didn't bat it back in to keep it from going out of bounds, though. Still an awesome play though..

[mowegl 4]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

Answer mine above.... as for yours.... It would be either an illegal forward pass or illegal batting.

Pylon is part of the endzone. Ball fumbled into endzone and OOB is a touchback. Defending teams ball at the 20.

You are correct. The other night in one of the bowl games (can't remember which one) the offense had the ball at their opponents 4 yard line. they ran a little dump pass where the receiver turned toward the sideline and went up field to try to score. When he left his feet he dove for the endzone and when he reached the ball forward, he lost the ball, then he lands out of bounds without the ball. The ball in flight from the 1 yard line, hits the pilon and goes out of bounds. officials gave them the ball at the ONE.... They hosed it bad...

Does illegal batting include loss of down?

Not sure, I'll have to look that up. Can't remember.

BTW what is really remarkable to me in 05 UGA is that the caused fumble knocked the ball toward the sideline. Aromashadu knocked it back into play with his hand trying to recover while in the meantime his foot just barely stayed in bounds for the time he was touching the ball. Then the ball bounced in the endzone without going off the sideline. Then CT made a perfect recovery - kept his body inbounds the whole time he recovered it, recovered it cleanly. If any of those things go wrong....touchback. Game, set, match.

I can look up the play, but I'm pretty sure that nobody touched the ball after it was punched loose in the field of play until CT recovered it in the endzone. If i remember correctly he didn't step out of bounds, but I don't think he touched the ball either, until he fell on it.. But, you are right, if any of those things go differently, the game would have been over.

Watch the play again its pretty remarkable.

After the ball was punched lose it was in the air still and heading in the direction of the sideline. Devin reached up with his right hand to try to get it and basically slapped it back in..had he actually caught it then he probably would have been out of bounds by the time he got control, and if he hadnt hit it, it would have gone out as well.

while it was remarkable, it didn't happen that way. I just watched it again (I have it on the harddrive) and yes he reached up to recover it while it was in the air, but he reached with his left hand and he was well in bounds at the time and if he touched it at all, he BARELY touched it, then CT came in and recovered it. Regardless if he tipped it or not, I don't think it goes out of bounds. If he touched it at all, it wasn't enough to change the direction of the ball. He certainly didn't bat it back in to keep it from going out of bounds, though. Still an awesome play though..

Ok dont take this personally, but I dont agree with anything you just said. Ive watched it many times before and I just checked it several times and in slow mo etc. Even the part about his left hand isnt right. I never said he batted it up, but he certainly changed the direction of the ball.

And people wonder why we questions officials sometimes.

[lukeduke 8]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

Answer mine above.... as for yours.... It would be either an illegal forward pass or illegal batting.

Pylon is part of the endzone. Ball fumbled into endzone and OOB is a touchback. Defending teams ball at the 20.

You are correct. The other night in one of the bowl games (can't remember which one) the offense had the ball at their opponents 4 yard line. they ran a little dump pass where the receiver turned toward the sideline and went up field to try to score. When he left his feet he dove for the endzone and when he reached the ball forward, he lost the ball, then he lands out of bounds without the ball. The ball in flight from the 1 yard line, hits the pilon and goes out of bounds. officials gave them the ball at the ONE.... They hosed it bad...

Does illegal batting include loss of down?

Not sure, I'll have to look that up. Can't remember.

BTW what is really remarkable to me in 05 UGA is that the caused fumble knocked the ball toward the sideline. Aromashadu knocked it back into play with his hand trying to recover while in the meantime his foot just barely stayed in bounds for the time he was touching the ball. Then the ball bounced in the endzone without going off the sideline. Then CT made a perfect recovery - kept his body inbounds the whole time he recovered it, recovered it cleanly. If any of those things go wrong....touchback. Game, set, match.

I can look up the play, but I'm pretty sure that nobody touched the ball after it was punched loose in the field of play until CT recovered it in the endzone. If i remember correctly he didn't step out of bounds, but I don't think he touched the ball either, until he fell on it.. But, you are right, if any of those things go differently, the game would have been over.

Watch the play again its pretty remarkable.

After the ball was punched lose it was in the air still and heading in the direction of the sideline. Devin reached up with his right hand to try to get it and basically slapped it back in..had he actually caught it then he probably would have been out of bounds by the time he got control, and if he hadnt hit it, it would have gone out as well.

while it was remarkable, it didn't happen that way. I just watched it again (I have it on the harddrive) and yes he reached up to recover it while it was in the air, but he reached with his left hand and he was well in bounds at the time and if he touched it at all, he BARELY touched it, then CT came in and recovered it. Regardless if he tipped it or not, I don't think it goes out of bounds. If he touched it at all, it wasn't enough to change the direction of the ball. He certainly didn't bat it back in to keep it from going out of bounds, though. Still an awesome play though..

Ok dont take this personally, but I dont agree with anything you just said. Ive watched it many times before and I just checked it several times and in slow mo etc. Even the part about his left hand isnt right. I never said he batted it up, but he certainly changed the direction of the ball.

And people wonder why we questions officials sometimes.

I am replying not to add anything to the point, but just to be a part of what appears to be destined as the longest post in message board history with all of the replies

[WarTiger 3,922]

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

What if it goes forward and out of bounds? In that case, I thought it returned to the spot of the fumble. If not, players would be "fumbling" every now and then to get some more yardage.

then it belongs to the offensive team where it went out of bounds. The only time it comes back to the spot of the fumble is if its fourth down and either nobody recovers it (in your situation above) or a teammate of the fumbler recovers it. No player is going to risk fumbling the ball intentionally for extra yardage, cause there is no guarantee that the ball will go out of bounds.

Add a twist to this situation, (happened in a game the other night and the officials screwed it up) and say the player fumbles the ball at the opponents 3 yard line, the ball goes forward and while in flight hits the pilon in the corner of the endzone and goes out of bounds... where is the ball spotted in that case?

What if he intentionally basically throws/fumbles it forward and out of bounds? What exactly is that called? Im pretty sure theres a rule for it.

Answer mine above.... as for yours.... It would be either an illegal forward pass or illegal batting.

Pylon is part of the endzone. Ball fumbled into endzone and OOB is a touchback. Defending teams ball at the 20.

You are correct. The other night in one of the bowl games (can't remember which one) the offense had the ball at their opponents 4 yard line. they ran a little dump pass where the receiver turned toward the sideline and went up field to try to score. When he left his feet he dove for the endzone and when he reached the ball forward, he lost the ball, then he lands out of bounds without the ball. The ball in flight from the 1 yard line, hits the pilon and goes out of bounds. officials gave them the ball at the ONE.... They hosed it bad...

Does illegal batting include loss of down?

Not sure, I'll have to look that up. Can't remember.

BTW what is really remarkable to me in 05 UGA is that the caused fumble knocked the ball toward the sideline. Aromashadu knocked it back into play with his hand trying to recover while in the meantime his foot just barely stayed in bounds for the time he was touching the ball. Then the ball bounced in the endzone without going off the sideline. Then CT made a perfect recovery - kept his body inbounds the whole time he recovered it, recovered it cleanly. If any of those things go wrong....touchback. Game, set, match.

I can look up the play, but I'm pretty sure that nobody touched the ball after it was punched loose in the field of play until CT recovered it in the endzone. If i remember correctly he didn't step out of bounds, but I don't think he touched the ball either, until he fell on it.. But, you are right, if any of those things go differently, the game would have been over.

Watch the play again its pretty remarkable.

After the ball was punched lose it was in the air still and heading in the direction of the sideline. Devin reached up with his right hand to try to get it and basically slapped it back in..had he actually caught it then he probably would have been out of bounds by the time he got control, and if he hadnt hit it, it would have gone out as well.

while it was remarkable, it didn't happen that way. I just watched it again (I have it on the harddrive) and yes he reached up to recover it while it was in the air, but he reached with his left hand and he was well in bounds at the time and if he touched it at all, he BARELY touched it, then CT came in and recovered it. Regardless if he tipped it or not, I don't think it goes out of bounds. If he touched it at all, it wasn't enough to change the direction of the ball. He certainly didn't bat it back in to keep it from going out of bounds, though. Still an awesome play though..

Ok dont take this personally, but I dont agree with anything you just said. Ive watched it many times before and I just checked it several times and in slow mo etc. Even the part about his left hand isnt right. I never said he batted it up, but he certainly changed the direction of the ball.

And people wonder why we questions officials sometimes.

you know, you may be right...i just looked at it again, and he very well may have hit the loose ball with his right hand. He was very much in bounds though, but a step later and he wouldn't have been. lol. I will stand by my statement about the ball going or not going out of bounds. The ball can take very unpredictable bounces as we all know and its no better than a 50/50 shot at whether it would have gone out of bounds or not. lol. Either way the officiating crew hosed a similar call in the utah game a few days ago..lol.

[CCTAU 3,345]

Youre missing something. The thing that was important about the UGA play is it was 4th down. The ball can not be fumbled forward on 4th down. It didnt really matter that it was a touchdown just that it was 4th down. Thats so you cant fumble it forward on 4th to pick up a 1st down or score a TD. You can still recover it, but the ball has to come back to the place it was fumbled from.

Ended up working out nicely for us in 05.

Let me add something to this....this is only the case if its 4th down... and even on 4th down, if the player that fumbled the ball recovered it, the ball would stay where he recovered it. (thanks Johndeere for the rule reference). The ball only returns to the spot of the fumble if its 4th down, and if a player other than the fumbler recovers it. Any other down, anybody can recover it whether it went forward or not. If it goes forward on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down and ends up in the endzone and a teammate recovers it, its a touchdown.

Kinda like the year Ronney Daniels recovered his own fumble in the end-zone for a touchdown?