$aban wants his daughter to be like Rashad

[runswithscissors 33]

you guys are going down a completely different tangent that was not the point of my post.

my point is kids can do stupid things and make stupid decisions, and just because of a minor indescretion doesn't mean they are bad guys or thugs. i think we can all agree that what Elder did was not a minor indescration and that he's a moron. kids do stupid things sometimes, such as Johnson has. it doesn't mean that they're necessarily a horrible person.

I agree...whole heartedly. I do. But are you saying that there should be no reprecussions for their "stupid" actions? That is one of the MANY differences between the 2 programs right now. TT hold his players accountable to act like men, and if they don't, they pay the consequences.

What does Saban do? And if he doesn't do anything, is he teaching them it is OK to do stupid things...contributing to turning these kids into "thugs" or "bad people"?

no, i'm not saying that there should be no repercussions for their stupid actions. i do believe the penalty should fit the crime, though.

[WAR EAGLE!!! 0]

you guys are going down a completely different tangent that was not the point of my post.

my point is kids can do stupid things and make stupid decisions, and just because of a minor indescretion doesn't mean they are bad guys or thugs. i think we can all agree that what Elder did was not a minor indescration and that he's a moron. kids do stupid things sometimes, such as Johnson has. it doesn't mean that they're necessarily a horrible person.

I agree...whole heartedly. I do. But are you saying that there should be no reprecussions for their "stupid" actions? That is one of the MANY differences between the 2 programs right now. TT hold his players accountable to act like men, and if they don't, they pay the consequences.

What does Saban do? And if he doesn't do anything, is he teaching them it is OK to do stupid things...contributing to turning these kids into "thugs" or "bad people"?

no, i'm not saying that there should be no repercussions for their stupid actions. i do believe the penalty should fit the crime, though.

Which is freaking WHAT???? That is the whole point!!!!

[The Prowler 1]

What some people are forgetting is that, and this is a Major Point here, Castille and Rashad were the Team Leaders...they were the ones, appointed by $abahr, to lead the young men and to teach them what Not to do as well as what to do. So, when these two young men are arrested, what does that teach the young men that are trying to learn from them? Especially when they don't get much punishment, if any. And to say, "well Coach made these kids do community service, like visiting the Nursing Homes and such." Most places have their players do that, it's not Punishment or it shouldn't be punishment. And how does that make uat look when the Coach supposedly punishes a player and has two or three more players get arrested not three weeks later? How does that make you bammers feel when one of your RBs tells the Police Officer..."F You and F Coach S" and at the same time another player is kicking at the windows of the Police car from the inside? Does that make yall feel better, knowing that there wasn't that much punishment coming from your Head Coach? And, when your Coach is asked about how he feels about suspending players for X amount of games he turns around and says, "Well, I don't think I should take away something that they came to College for (Basically, what they Enjoy)."

I'm sorry, but as a Parent if my boy messes up, I'm taking away EVERYTHING that he Enjoys and he usually gets the point after the first time. I know that Coaches shouldn't be put in a place as being a Father figure, but with today's kids...more and more of them are coming from a broken home sometimes without a father figure at all. And yes, the penalty should fit the crime. So, how would you bammers discipline your player(s) if they get Arrested for disorderly conduct (which in Rashad's case would've been Much Worse if it'd been you or me), or tells a Police Officer, "F You and F Coach S"? Those are just Two examples that I'd like to hear from you bammers on how yall would go about disciplining these players?

[PChamp119 96]

Well said about Tray Blackmon by the Auburn folks. Bammers, did we, or Tubs, ever come out and say "well Tray is a fine citizen and he will not be suspended." Nooooo. He never used the "fine citizen" as an excuse. He suspended, end of story. That's the difference here. CTT doesn't care who the athlete is - his history of being a good citizen or if he is the star of the team. Whomever he is, he will be suspended / disciplined. He doesn't make excuses for his players getting in trouble. He acknowledges it and does something about it.

And stadiums for 3 hours ... I'm surprised you guys don't spin that as extra conditioning time to build them to be better athletes. That's the stupidest excuse I have heard... stadiums. I bet Saban was having DJ Hall do stadiums, then after the first section or so, he changed his mind...

Suspension is what makes someone disappoint their team. Look at your textbook scandal. "The worst part of this is I could not be on the field to help our team out. I could've made a difference and helped us win (against La Monroe!! LOL)."

[Ashandarei 0]

I said 3 weeks. That's just a tad different than 3 hours.

[CircleDrill 178]

Look, the phrase "you are missing the point" has been worn out in this thread. But, everybody here is missing the point.

This is no longer about winning or losing football games. Saban has a moral and ethical responsibility as a human being to get these boys under control. Why should he do something? Because he can, and that is the right thing to do. Not because he has to look good to the media, or because that's going to win or lose games. NO ONE else has the chance that he as at this moment to do something and he is dropping the ball on the MOST IMPORTANT part of being a coach....teaching boys how to be men!!

THAT is the POINT.

As cliched as it is and sick as it makes Auburn fans to hear this...load them up on a bus and take them somewhere and go "Junction" on them. Run off all but the most committed. Lose every game next year. There is way more character in that, than in press conferences where you simply "talk" about character. Stop TALKING and freakin' DO SOMETHING about it man. Alabama fans would be talking about him for 100 years if he did something like that.

But he won't because he has no guts and no character.

I swear, if I was the coach I would call a team meeting and get every kid in there. If you miss you are off the team, period. I would chew them up one side and down the other and tell them "The next person that I see in the paper is gone. Period. I don't care who it is, who your daddy is, who your daddy played for, or how much money y'all gave to the school. YOU WILL BE GONE. I don't care what Mal Moore or anybody else says. Your tail will be GONE. Just try me. Now get out of my face."

[runswithscissors 33]

Look, the phrase "you are missing the point" has been worn out in this thread. But, everybody here is missing the point.

This is no longer about winning or losing football games. Saban has a moral and ethical responsibility as a human being to get these boys under control. Why should he do something? Because he can, and that is the right thing to do. Not because he has to look good to the media, or because that's going to win or lose games. NO ONE else has the chance that he as at this moment to do something and he is dropping the ball on the MOST IMPORTANT part of being a coach....teaching boys how to be men!!

THAT is the POINT.

As cliched as it is and sick as it makes Auburn fans to hear this...load them up on a bus and take them somewhere and go "Junction" on them. Run off all but the most committed. Lose every game next year. There is way more character in that, than in press conferences where you simply "talk" about character. Stop TALKING and freakin' DO SOMETHING about it man. Alabama fans would be talking about him for 100 years if he did something like that.

But he won't because he has no guts and no character.

I swear, if I was the coach I would call a team meeting and get every kid in there. If you miss you are off the team, period. I would chew them up one side and down the other and tell them "The next person that I see in the paper is gone. Period. I don't care who it is, who your daddy is, who your daddy played for, or how much money y'all gave to the school. YOU WILL BE GONE. I don't care what Mal Moore or anybody else says. Your tail will be GONE. Just try me. Now get out of my face."

and that is STILL no guarantee that people won't screw up. you just can't force somebody to do something. you can threaten about it, sure. what if he did threaten to kick the next guy off the team? then somebody did something and got kicked off. then threatened again. then somebody got kicked off. and so on, and so on. just because you threaten to do something, then you do it, is no guarantee that people will never EVER do something wrong ever again. we're talking about 17-21 year old kids here.

[CircleDrill 178]

and that is STILL no guarantee that people won't screw up. you just can't force somebody to do something. you can threaten about it, sure. what if he did threaten to kick the next guy off the team? then somebody did something and got kicked off. then threatened again. then somebody got kicked off. and so on, and so on. just because you threaten to do something, then you do it, is no guarantee that people will never EVER do something wrong ever again. we're talking about 17-21 year old kids here.

Is playing football at the university of Alabama a "right" or a "privelege"?

You are acting like it is a right. Well, it's not. It is a privelege and it can be taken away just as easily as it can be granted. These kids are not entitled to anything. They do not respect putting on the uniforms that they are given. If they did respect it, then they would not do anything to jeopardize their ability to put that uniform on. Now I know that you have plenty that do respect it.

But you have too many that are "entitled" to their position, and that is the problem right there.

That is the difference between these kids getting arrested every week and Trey Blackmon. Trey Blackmon was held accountable. When he finally got the chance to put on that jersey and get out there, he respected it as a privelege and not a right. He was not entitled to it. He EARNED it. I remember him hitting a couple of people so hard in that game I thought they were going to have to come out.

[runswithscissors 33]

and that is STILL no guarantee that people won't screw up. you just can't force somebody to do something. you can threaten about it, sure. what if he did threaten to kick the next guy off the team? then somebody did something and got kicked off. then threatened again. then somebody got kicked off. and so on, and so on. just because you threaten to do something, then you do it, is no guarantee that people will never EVER do something wrong ever again. we're talking about 17-21 year old kids here.

Is playing football at the university of Alabama a "right" or a "privelege"?

You are acting like it is a right. Well, it's not. It is a privelege and it can be taken away just as easily as it can be granted. These kids are not entitled to anything. They do not respect putting on the uniforms that they are given. If they did respect it, then they would not do anything to jeopardize their ability to put that uniform on. Now I know that you have plenty that do respect it.

But you have too many that are "entitled" to their position, and that is the problem right there.

That is the difference between these kids getting arrested every week and Trey Blackmon. Trey Blackmon was held accountable. When he finally got the chance to put on that jersey and get out there, he respected it as a privelege and not a right. He was not entitled to it. He EARNED it. I remember him hitting a couple of people so hard in that game I thought they were going to have to come out.

i never even brought up Blackmon. but if you are going to, he got in trouble for the same thing twice. i guess according to some folks here, CTT should have kicked him off the team since he got arrested for the same thing TWICE, right? i guess he only respected it the second time around....

[eagle76 1]

Just another point of view................

If you were a high school athlete, who would you rather play for --

Team A -- program that lives off of past "tradition", has a big name coach, high probabilities of playing as a freshman, AND you know that if you get into trouble that the coach will handle the issue behind closed doors (if at all) and it more than likely will never affect your playing time.

Team B -- program with less historical tradition than Team A but has won consistently over the past decade, a very recognizable coach, team depth such that you may have to redshirt or get very limited playing time in freshman year, AND you know on the front end that if you get into trouble that your career at Team B may be in jeopardy, at the least, you will be suspended for multiple games regardless of how good you are.

Talking with some guys at work, they all felt that a hs athlete would rather have the situation at Team A due to the lack of severity of punishment and knowing that they did not have to worry or fear the discipline. The guys also stated that as parents that they would rather their son play for Team B but realized that if their little Johnny did screw up (and kids will be kids) that Team A would more than likely get the final nod just to make sure Johnny could play if he did screw up.

It's sad what this world as come to. We expect our kids to screw up and we are not willing to let them suffer the consequences. If this is so, then Team A will continue to get the lion's share of the recruits and will continue to have off the field problems. BUT as long as they WIN, then most people will not give a d#@m about discipline.

I heard a sports guy from espn say almost the same thing yesterday. He believed that saban was doing the right things to show that he "cared" for the players and that he would not let a couple of mistakes "ruin" a players career. Players liked this attitude and so did their parents.

[AUChizad 0]

and that is STILL no guarantee that people won't screw up. you just can't force somebody to do something. you can threaten about it, sure. what if he did threaten to kick the next guy off the team? then somebody did something and got kicked off. then threatened again. then somebody got kicked off. and so on, and so on. just because you threaten to do something, then you do it, is no guarantee that people will never EVER do something wrong ever again. we're talking about 17-21 year old kids here.

Is playing football at the university of Alabama a "right" or a "privelege"?

You are acting like it is a right. Well, it's not. It is a privelege and it can be taken away just as easily as it can be granted. These kids are not entitled to anything. They do not respect putting on the uniforms that they are given. If they did respect it, then they would not do anything to jeopardize their ability to put that uniform on. Now I know that you have plenty that do respect it.

But you have too many that are "entitled" to their position, and that is the problem right there.

That is the difference between these kids getting arrested every week and Trey Blackmon. Trey Blackmon was held accountable. When he finally got the chance to put on that jersey and get out there, he respected it as a privelege and not a right. He was not entitled to it. He EARNED it. I remember him hitting a couple of people so hard in that game I thought they were going to have to come out.

i never even brought up Blackmon. but if you are going to, he got in trouble for the same thing twice. i guess according to some folks here, CTT should have kicked him off the team since he got arrested for the same thing TWICE, right? i guess he only respected it the second time around....

Wrong again.

He was arrested once. The single arrest got him 6 games. He was not arrested again, but broke undisclosed "team rules" (presumably he was under a microscope after the original punishment, and slipped up somewhere, most likely getting caught drinking underage again NOT BY THE POLICE) and for that he was suspended for a bowl game.

Seriously check the plank in your eye before commenting on a speck of sawdust in ours (two years ago).

[AUesquire 1]

Did RWS just publically state that Trey Blackmon was arrested twice for underage drinking?

Please provide verification of that. Trey Blackmon was suspended from a bowl game for an undisclosed violation as Chiz just stated. I don't recall anyone doing anything more than speculating on what he did. Could have been late for a team meeting for all anyone knows. So, you say he was arrested? I think there better be some proof of that.

[aumd03 2]

Not to mention that Tuberville has never written a book on "how to lead and be successful in life." I can guarantee that a criminal record isn't the way to go about being successful.

[MDM4AU 336]

he got arrested for the same thing TWICE, right? i guess he only respected it the second time around....

He was suspended from the team twice. One we know had to do with his underage drinking arrest. The second time was for violating UNDISCLOSED rules. You have no proof that he was arrested. You can't produce a police report or an article from somewhere other than the West Vance tri-weekly gossip rag that backs you up on this. You are running on pure speculation that makes you and the rest of the unwashed masses feel better about the state of your program.

[runswithscissors 33]

he got arrested for the same thing TWICE, right? i guess he only respected it the second time around....

He was suspended from the team twice. One we know had to do with his underage drinking arrest. The second time was for violating UNDISCLOSED rules. You have no proof that he was arrested. You can't produce a police report or an article from somewhere other than the West Vance tri-weekly gossip rag that backs you up on this. You are running on pure speculation that makes you and the rest of the unwashed masses feel better about the state of your program.

hm, then i must be thinking that it was heavily speculated that the second infraction was for an undisclosed arrest again in LaGrange, GA, his hometown where the one arrest took place. my mistake.

[runswithscissors 33]

hm, then i must be thinking that it was heavily speculated that the second infraction was for an undisclosed arrest again in LaGrange, GA, his hometown where the one arrest took place. my mistake.

In other word, you ******' made it up.

if thats what you want to believe, ok. i did not intentionally make it up, i honestly thought there was a second arrest. it was my mistake.

[tiger88 934]

He ******' wishful thinkinged it up.

[abrnfanatc 6]

i never even brought up Blackmon. but if you are going to, he got in trouble for the same thing twice. i guess according to some folks here, CTT should have kicked him off the team since he got arrested for the same thing TWICE, right? i guess he only respected it the second time around....

The kid was arrested ONCE for underage drinking. He was suspended for 6 games for that. He was later suspended for other reasons which have never been stated to my knowledge. Everyone ASSUMED that it was for the same reason.

In the famous words of Steve Perry, Don't stop believing...

[AuburnChopper1 0]

Yeah, bring up the Blackmon situation, mis-state it, but ultimately try to use it to offset somehow the quagmire that is "discipline" at UAT. Brilliant.

No more arrests, very few to nill discipline problems at Auburn, no freaking "peer councils", no "peer council" members getting busted. No other run in's with the law. No Coach from Auburn treating the media like garbage.

...but hey... Brilliant argument rambleswithscissors... top notch buddy.

[AU alum 2]

hm, then i must be thinking that it was heavily speculated that the second infraction was for an undisclosed arrest again in LaGrange, GA, his hometown where the one arrest took place. my mistake.

In other word, you ******' made it up.

if thats what you want to believe, ok. i did not intentionally make it up, i honestly thought there was a second arrest. it was my mistake.

Be truthful, here. That is what you WANTED to believe.

[runswithscissors 33]

Yeah, bring up the Blackmon situation, mis-state it, but ultimately try to use it to offset somehow the quagmire that is "discipline" at UAT. Brilliant.

No more arrests, very few to nill discipline problems at Auburn, no freaking "peer councils", no "peer council" members getting busted. No other run in's with the law. No Coach from Auburn treating the media like garbage.

...but hey... Brilliant argument rambleswithscissors... top notch buddy.

i never even brought up the Blackmon issue, somebody else did earlier in the thread then it was brought up again by another person in a reply to me. and Blackmon getting in trouble doesn't change the fact that our team has a problem.

[MDP32AU 0]

He ******' wishful thinkinged it up.