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ellitor

AU players, signees, commits on Top 200 draft prospect list

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1 hour ago, Auhud08 said:

Fyi first 10 rounds of baseball draft are considered high draft. So Keegan is gone. Hes gotta take the money. Tanner is gone, williams is a toss up, de la torre might be gone bc hes from PR. I think Steele sticks. 

There is a world of difference between 1st & 10th round money & I would not put them in the same category.. On Williams he is likely coming to AU unless he significantly passes his 6th round projection to be in the top 3 rounds. He has family at AU now & wants to come to AU barring huge MLB money. Tanner may not be cut and dry as he may not get the amount of money that his family wants from the majors. 

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1 hour ago, boomstick said:

I wish we had an idea of who we signed in the late session. That would give us an idea of who we expect to lose to the draft IMO. Anybody have any names?

Apparently, teams don't like to publicize those signees in case those players aren't on draft radars. They don't want to give scouts any assistance on finding possible hidden gems. 

In that case we will likely find out when the Fall Roster comes out if after graduation & the draft we are under 35 players since that is the limit now.

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12 hours ago, ellitor said:

There is a world of difference between 1st & 10th round money & I would not put them in the same category.. On Williams he is likely coming to AU unless he significantly passes his 6th round projection to be in the top 3 rounds. He has family at AU now & wants to come to AU barring huge MLB money. Tanner may not be cut and dry as he may not get the amount of money that his family wants from the majors. 

I've seen some articles on Burns that he really likes to hit, and would want to play both ways if he went to college- which Butch has told him he would let him do. This scenario is very unlikely, but imagine getting both Keegan and Tanner to stick around..... 

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About how much good that lottery money helps baseball programs:

The bottom two teams in the SEC East get lottery money. The number 2, 3 and 4 teams in the East do not.

The top 2 teams in the West get lottery money, the rest do not.

Lottery states in the SEC: East, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina. Vandy gets no lottery money because they are a private school.

Lottery states in the SEC West: LSU, Arkansas

If there's some advantage to getting lottery money, it's not statistically significant in the won-loss records.

Source for the above information, The infallible internet. :)

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1 hour ago, Mikey said:

About how much good that lottery money helps baseball programs:

The bottom two teams in the SEC East get lottery money. The number 2, 3 and 4 teams in the East do not.

The top 2 teams in the West get lottery money, the rest do not.

Lottery states in the SEC: East, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina. Vandy gets no lottery money because they are a private school.

Lottery states in the SEC West: LSU, Arkansas

If there's some advantage to getting lottery money, it's not statistically significant in the won-loss records.

Source for the above information, The infallible internet. :)

The Mississippi schools do something with academics and money and their baseball players. Something that allows them to free up more scholly money for out-of-state kids. Can't remember exactly what it is, but from what I remember, that's where they get their advantage. 

Edit: After a little googling, the Mississippi schools do it a variety of ways (needs based, merit based, private endowments and scholarships). Vandy has their own private financial aid system that allows them a ton of flexibility in getting baseball players' tuition paid. Currently, there are no restrictions on a school skirting the 11.7 athletic scholarship limit or how a school funds it's baseball players tuition, book, room and board. 

Edited by boomstick
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30 minutes ago, Mikey said:

About how much good that lottery money helps baseball programs:

The bottom two teams in the SEC East get lottery money. The number 2, 3 and 4 teams in the East do not.

The top 2 teams in the West get lottery money, the rest do not.

Lottery states in the SEC: East, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina. Vandy gets no lottery money because they are a private school.

Lottery states in the SEC West: LSU, Arkansas

If there's some advantage to getting lottery money, it's not statistically significant in the won-loss records.

Source for the above information, The infallible internet. :)

Could be ...but guess I would take a longer range look at the power structure ...just looking at one year is not a very good sample....and Vandy does not need lottery money.    Lotteries have been in effect for a dozen or more years so guess I would look at maybe ten years ....and of course it would be wise to consider who was coaching those teams in their ups and down years.

I noted earlier that Davidson gives 3 baseball scholarships but somehow is playing in the Supers this weekend.   And looking at the infallible internet, I found the following... https://www.davidson.edu/admission-and-financial-aid/financial-aid/scholarships/nomination-scholarships/lowell-bryan-scholarship

What do you bet that there are dozens or more such scholarships at most upscale private schools?  And because they are private schools they don't answer to any public body about what they do in the way of scholarship eligibility.

And also there is this from one site:   

Full and partial scholarships are the norm for baseball players at the college level, and they can be hard to win. That being said, high school baseball players who want to play on a college team should also consider walk-on scholarships. These are in essence general academic scholarships that can get the student to the college they desire, where they can then try out for the team. Many well known professional ball players used walk-on scholarships to make their name in college baseball

But we've discussed this a few times....

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This pattern of no apparent advantage to lottery schools has been going on for years. It's been discussed for years and actually, this year the lottery schools did better than their average finish. If Mississippi is doing something, it didn't do much for Ole' Miss, did it?

Auburn can do anything the other schools can do, it's just a matter of finding baseball players that qualify for an academic scholarship. But no, a school may not give an academic scholarship to a baseball player that doesn't have the grades that would be required for a non-athlete to get that scholarship. The last time we discussed this finagling, two schools, one in Texas and one in California, were on probation for doing just that. Vandy finds baseball players that also qualify for an academic scholarship at Vanderbilt. We doubtless already have some on academic scholarship at Auburn but be assured, their grades would have gotten them the help without them being baseball players.

@PowerOfDixieland has much first-hand knowledge about this, maybe he'll chip in some thoughts.

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10 hours ago, Mikey said:

This pattern of no apparent advantage to lottery schools has been going on for years. It's been discussed for years and actually, this year the lottery schools did better than their average finish. If Mississippi is doing something, it didn't do much for Ole' Miss, did it?

Auburn can do anything the other schools can do, it's just a matter of finding baseball players that qualify for an academic scholarship. But no, a school may not give an academic scholarship to a baseball player that doesn't have the grades that would be required for a non-athlete to get that scholarship. The last time we discussed this finagling, two schools, one in Texas and one in California, were on probation for doing just that. Vandy finds baseball players that also qualify for an academic scholarship at Vanderbilt. We doubtless already have some on academic scholarship at Auburn but be assured, their grades would have gotten them the help without them being baseball players.

@PowerOfDixieland has much first-hand knowledge about this, maybe he'll chip in some thoughts.

thing is...qualifications for scholarships vary all over the place....don't have to be an A student to get academic aid...many have a need factor, etc. The Davidson link is a blatant advertisement for athletes to submit applications and that's just one example.

http://www.auburn.edu/scholarship/

http://www.auburn.edu/administration/business-finance/finaid/types-of-aid/grants.html

Even football players are eligible for Pell Grants I understand   ...so guessing that covers all sports if someone is out there helping the prospects get qualified.

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All students are available for pell grants.  My kid looked at playing college soccer.  It is all about the "packages" that can be put together.

superstars are gonna get a full ride however that is pieced together.  

I know a college that has an "endowed" scholarship that is eligible only for girls soccer players.  

A lot of these scholarships - particularly at smaller schools or schools that have less applicants have much lower baseline levels for the academic requirements - don't have any other requirements than to have a certain gpa.  Then that group is selected from.  I'm guessing a future varsity athlete has a significantly higher chance of being selected for those funds.

fwiw ... the only world I know is soccer.  The vast majority of those kids, the elite ones, are very good students and in honor societies etc.

i have been told numerous times by older soccer parents ... "your athletic ability gets you in the school and your academics pay for it"

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Yeah we've beaten this one to death.  I live in Georgia and have first hand knowledge of the Hope Scholarship (lottery) money.  It is a violation of NCAA rules to earmark financial aid (outside of that which is verifiable and documented as "athletic scholarship" money) for the purpose of awarding a specific student for athletic participation.  It is a violation for a targeted athlete to get general scholarship monies without meeting the requirement AND ahead of the general student population who also meet said qualifications strictly because they possess unique athletic talent.  I always go back to the Pepperdine violations.  Talk about a university with a financially advantaged base, they got drilled for giving general scholarship monies to high value athletic targets (prospects) for the expressed purpose of getting them in and on their athletic teams. In sports you would never think violations would occur (water polo, tennis, men's volleyball), but also in baseball.

This directly from the NCAA ruling:   "From 2007-08, the university’s financial aid office “prioritized” students demonstrating particular gifts or talents when awarding non-athletic scholarships. Athletics participation was one of the factors considered to be a gift or talent, so the scholarships awarded should have been, but were not, counted toward team scholarship totals."

And the idea  of a "full ride" in division 1 baseball is a misnomer.  This is a cause which Ron Polk, the "godfather of college baseball", has essentially gotten himself ex-communicated from the NCCAA for http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/college/on-campus/2008/265068.html.  D! baseball programs have the equivalent of 11.7 scholarships which essentially must be (by NCAA requirement) divided 27 ways with each scholarship being a minimum of 25%.  You do the math on that.  It has been said that a D1 baseball scholarship is the most expensive scholarship that there is.  Baseball is a sport primarily played by middle to upper class white kids and as such does not merit much in the way of scholarship availability by the NCAA.  Junior college is a different story (in every respect except the game itself) and I believe the way for a kid to go.

There are some advantages to lottery state schools and other such scholarship "windfalls", however they are very slight and you can bet that the NCAA does everything in their power to minimize them.  It is certainly not an excuse for lack of success, nor is it a guarantee for championship.  If it were, Georgia and Georgia Tech would both be baseball powerhouses.  I've never seen the statistics, but my guess is that Georgia produces as many D1 baseball players as any state in the country.  If I were a college recruiter I would spend all my time in the spring in north metro Atlanta and every week in the summer at the Lake Point facility that hosts Perfect Game in Emerson.  

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5 hours ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

Yeah we've beaten this one to death.  I live in Georgia and have first hand knowledge of the Hope Scholarship (lottery) money.  It is a violation of NCAA rules to earmark financial aid (outside of that which is verifiable and documented as "athletic scholarship" money) for the purpose of awarding a specific student for athletic participation.  It is a violation for a targeted athlete to get general scholarship monies without meeting the requirement AND ahead of the general student population who also meet said qualifications strictly because they possess unique athletic talent.  I always go back to the Pepperdine violations.  Talk about a university with a financially advantaged base, they got drilled for giving general scholarship monies to high value athletic targets (prospects) for the expressed purpose of getting them in and on their athletic teams. In sports you would never think violations would occur (water polo, tennis, men's volleyball), but also in baseball.

This directly from the NCAA ruling:   "From 2007-08, the university’s financial aid office “prioritized” students demonstrating particular gifts or talents when awarding non-athletic scholarships. Athletics participation was one of the factors considered to be a gift or talent, so the scholarships awarded should have been, but were not, counted toward team scholarship totals."

And the idea  of a "full ride" in division 1 baseball is a misnomer.  This is a cause which Ron Polk, the "godfather of college baseball", has essentially gotten himself ex-communicated from the NCCAA for http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/college/on-campus/2008/265068.html.  D! baseball programs have the equivalent of 11.7 scholarships which essentially must be (by NCAA requirement) divided 27 ways with each scholarship being a minimum of 25%.  You do the math on that.  It has been said that a D1 baseball scholarship is the most expensive scholarship that there is.  Baseball is a sport primarily played by middle to upper class white kids and as such does not merit much in the way of scholarship availability by the NCAA.  Junior college is a different story (in every respect except the game itself) and I believe the way for a kid to go.

There are some advantages to lottery state schools and other such scholarship "windfalls", however they are very slight and you can bet that the NCAA does everything in their power to minimize them.  It is certainly not an excuse for lack of success, nor is it a guarantee for championship.  If it were, Georgia and Georgia Tech would both be baseball powerhouses.  I've never seen the statistics, but my guess is that Georgia produces as many D1 baseball players as any state in the country.  If I were a college recruiter I would spend all my time in the spring in north metro Atlanta and every week in the summer at the Lake Point facility that hosts Perfect Game in Emerson.  

I keep reading that but I think it is  self defeating view of things.   MLB makes all kinds of efforts to attract black kids from the US toward baseball...but likely those efforts are negated by the lack of opportunity for those kids to get a college education by virtue of their skills in baseball.  Meanwhile most of the minority players  in professional baseball are from Latin American countries.....some of which might technically be African heritage.....but apparently not necessarily the ones that MLB is looking for?  

In any given year, AU has 2 or maybe 3 black baseball players....not because there are not good players out there who would love to play college base...but more likely because many of them can't afford to play college ball, even with a 25% scholarship.    So....talented black HS baseball players are disproportionately pushed toward minor league baseball with modest salaries and lottery-like odds of making a living in baseball. JMO

Meanwhile I guess I would love to see some NCAA official of consequence look into a camera and say that the reason that so few baseball scholarships are provided is because of that statement made above....that white kids don't need financial aid to attend college..  

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I can't answer the why, other than the economics of the scholarship limitations.  As for the numbers at Auburn or any other school, I would say go and look at any HBC pictorial roster and you will be blown away by what you see.  Baseball is a very white sport....

"As the Rams took the infield for a recent game, anyone could see the obvious. Only three players on the Winston-Salem traveling team are black. The Rams' team picture could pass for a college lacrosse team in Idaho."    http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/72021954/white-players-making-up-majority-of-historically-black-college-baseball-teams

Edited by PowerOfDixieland

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1 hour ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

I can't answer the why, other than the economics of the scholarship limitations.  As for the numbers at Auburn or any other school, I would say go and look at any HBC pictorial roster and you will be blown away by what you see.  Baseball is a very white sport....

"As the Rams took the infield for a recent game, anyone could see the obvious. Only three players on the Winston-Salem traveling team are black. The Rams' team picture could pass for a college lacrosse team in Idaho."    http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/72021954/white-players-making-up-majority-of-historically-black-college-baseball-teams

 Yup baseball, is the only sport that at the college level does not seem representative...diversified...  as the professional teams of the sport.

Re: the link....noticed that when we played Ala State  and guess it was Bethune recently..also Fla A and M....

Edited by AU64

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You can't compare baseball with other professional sport teams.   What other countries are producing NFL players?   Basketball is becoming more of a foreign connection but no way near what baseball produces 

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1 hour ago, aubaseball said:

You can't compare baseball with other professional sport teams.   What other countries are producing NFL players?   Basketball is becoming more of a foreign connection but no way near what baseball produces 

Good point but MLB's efforts to encourage good young black US athletes to play baseball is going backwards if anything. 

Colleges have limited baseball scholarship opportunities and JMO...but that has a down stream effect.  Young kids know where the money is and the opportunities are....and it's not baseball at the college level.   And of course as you note,  if they try to go pro out of HS they find themselves in competition with young guys from all over North and South America who will play for peanuts.

 

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3 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

 

 

FAMU Baseball Team 2017

Holy moley! Jake Gaither is rolling over in his grave.

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12 hours ago, Mikey said:

Holy moley! Jake Gaither is rolling over in his grave.

lol never thought about that but your right.

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12 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

lol never thought about that but your right.

Coach Jake Gaither once said, when asked what he looked for in a football player: I want 'em A-gile, MO-bile and HOSTILE! I also saw him on a TV show that had the head coaches of Forida, Miami, FSU and FAMU in a panel discussion. This was when integration first started in southern college football. When it came Jake Gaither's turn to comment he said this was going to be a one way street: "Y'all are going to be taking my best players and I'm not getting a thing in return."

He had some mannerisms abut him that reminded me of Coach Jordan.

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A few years ago there was one of these "oh poor me" articles in the Dallas paper about TCU. Now they've been to the CWS four times in the past five years, more than anybody else.

I'll stick with my position of previous years. This whining about lottery money and so forth is nothing but excuse making. Lottery schools Georgia and Tennessee finished near the bottom of the heap in the SEC. Kentucky, MSU, A&M and Vandy did very well with no lottery help.

While these stories as written would seem to indicate that schools with the lottery money have a huge advantage that's never been borne out by results in the won-loss columns. The rest of us have always and will continue to find ways to level the playing field.

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The message is:  private schools learning how to "work" the system....

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6 minutes ago, AU64 said:

The message is:  private schools learning how to "work" the system....

As are the many other schools with  baseball programs and no lottery money. The above article was making a case for public schools having all the advantage.

When someone can post a list, over years and competitive levels, that shows lottery schools with a significantly higher winning percentage than schools without lottery money, then it may be time to get interested in this. As it stands, results on the field don't support that the schools in states with lotteries have any competitive advantage.

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1 hour ago, Auhud08 said:

Draft is tonight! 

Baseball America with a state of Alabama preview. 

Burns is high...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2017-state-draft-report-alabama/?amphtml=1

thanks for posting that...interesting but baseball at all levels in the state is not very impressive in my view..

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