the right and church....

[aubiefifty 16,777]

i have noticed a ton of righties, a couple whom are friends, seem to want to change christianity AND the bible. i asked him what was wrong with with helping those in need. i told him jesus would feed the poor and hungry and he told me i was taking the bible out of context. there were other things he said were taken out of  context as well concerning immigrants. and yet i see bible verses that seem to claim otherwise. anyone care to comment? i am not looking for an argument as much as why some or most on the right feel this way. as a struggling christian i see so much hate coming out of churches that i refuse to attend church. so i do my praying at home. back before i started getting light headed my favorite place to pray was riding down the oad on my sportster marveling at the beauty of gods world. anyone care to help me out?

[homersapien 11,370]

I think you are wise to rely on yourself to define your Christian beliefs instead of others.

The whole church thing is more about "fellowship" than it is about Christianity.  (That's a politically correct way of saying the "church" is more about tribalism and politics than it is Christianity.)

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

57 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i have noticed a ton of righties, a couple whom are friends, seem to want to change christianity AND the bible. i asked him what was wrong with with helping those in need. i told him jesus would feed the poor and hungry and he told me i was taking the bible out of context. there were other things he said were taken out of  context as well concerning immigrants. and yet i see bible verses that seem to claim otherwise. anyone care to comment? i am not looking for an argument as much as why some or most on the right feel this way. as a struggling christian i see so much hate coming out of churches that i refuse to attend church. so i do my praying at home. back before i started getting light headed my favorite place to pray was riding down the oad on my sportster marveling at the beauty of gods world. anyone care to help me out?

I'm not going into a religious discussion. I always ends up with 50 posts and no minds changed. I would only comment on your saying so much hate coming out of churches and refusing to attend. I don't see that in my church but I sure see a lot of it in this forum which you like to participate in.

[aubiefifty 16,777]

12 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I'm not going into a religious discussion. I always ends up with 50 posts and no minds changed. I would only comment on your saying so much hate coming out of churches and refusing to attend. I don't see that in my church but I sure see a lot of it in this forum which you like to participate in.

so now i am full of hate proud? do not confuse anger at stupid responses for hate. ever. you are bearing false witness here so to speak. and by your standards which you try to smear me with i can say i have seen you say some pretty bad things as well.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

i have noticed a ton of righties, a couple whom are friends, seem to want to change christianity AND the bible. i asked him what was wrong with with helping those in need. i told him jesus would feed the poor and hungry and he told me i was taking the bible out of context. there were other things he said were taken out of  context as well concerning immigrants. and yet i see bible verses that seem to claim otherwise. anyone care to comment? i am not looking for an argument as much as why some or most on the right feel this way. as a struggling christian i see so much hate coming out of churches that i refuse to attend church. so i do my praying at home. back before i started getting light headed my favorite place to pray was riding down the oad on my sportster marveling at the beauty of gods world. anyone care to help me out?

In “The Merchant of Venice,” Shakespeare’s character Antonio proclaimed,”The devil can cite scripture for  his purpose.” For centuries men have been using scripture to justify their actions. In America, the Bible or rather it’s teachings  have been used as a reason for genocide of Native peoples, a reason for slavery, and currently a reason to support an immoral Republican candidate. So many use the Bible as a tool of condemnation rather than the marvelous work of redemption that it truly is. And that to me is tragic and heartbreaking. That’s why it’s so important to know what the Bible says so that we aren’t deceived by false teachers who subvert God’s word. Just my 2 cents. 

[AU64 10,122]

59 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I'm not going into a religious discussion. I always ends up with 50 posts and no minds changed. I would only comment on your saying so much hate coming out of churches and refusing to attend. I don't see that in my church but I sure see a lot of it in this forum which you like to participate in.

Yep but I always wonder what church these people have attended to draw such generalizations about Christians who are notorious for doing good deeds and loving acts all over the world in the name of Jesus Christ. .

I've been involved in church and church work my entire life and all I have heard from the pulpit is

"love thy neighbor...…" and "what does God ask of us but to do justice, love kindness and walk humbly with our God"…   

If anyone would like to put those two instructions into action I can provide a long list of opportunities where that can be done.....starting with your local Habitat for Humanity or food pantry.  

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

2 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

so now i am full of hate proud? do not confuse anger at stupid responses for hate. ever. you are bearing false witness here so to speak. and by your standards which you try to smear me with i can say i have seen you say some pretty bad things as well.

Please note.......I DID NOT say YOU were spewing hate. I was trying to note that you quit attending your church but do spend a lot of time in this forum where a lot of hate is evident. And yes so do I.

Sorry it came across wrong.

[aubiefifty 16,777]

1 minute ago, Proud Tiger said:

Please note.......I DID NOT say YOU were spewing hate. I was trying to note that you quit attending your church but do spend a lot of time in this forum where a lot of hate is evident. And yes so do I.

Sorry it came across wrong.

proud i do plenty at home. i also live alone. my family is gone. i got two nieces up north and i seldom hear from them. so yes i spend most of my time reading,putering, watching movies and college football. i just want to be clear my opinions never come from hate. i fight hard and sometimes my temper comes into play but i hate no one on here. granted there are a couple here i do not care for when the truth is often turned into a joke. hell it might surprise you but i do not hate trump. but i sure do not like him. i just wanted to be clear about that.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Sorry you are alone but also glad you don't hate anyone.  If you notice I don't do long posts. At 80, the old fingers have arthritis so sometimes typing isn't easy. Peace brother.

[gr82be 14,423]

8 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i have noticed a ton of righties, a couple whom are friends, seem to want to change christianity AND the bible. i asked him what was wrong with with helping those in need. i told him jesus would feed the poor and hungry and he told me i was taking the bible out of context. there were other things he said were taken out of  context as well concerning immigrants. and yet i see bible verses that seem to claim otherwise. anyone care to comment? i am not looking for an argument as much as why some or most on the right feel this way. as a struggling christian i see so much hate coming out of churches that i refuse to attend church. so i do my praying at home. back before i started getting light headed my favorite place to pray was riding down the oad on my sportster marveling at the beauty of gods world. anyone care to help me out?

Fifty, there unfortunately are many people who go to church that don't act like Christians all of the time. If they were put on trial for being a Christian there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict them. Fellowship with other people who share your faith is good so maybe you haven't found the right church yet. Maybe you're not looking right now either and that's fine. A personal relationship with Jesus is what should be important to all who call themselves Christians. Sitting in church doesn't make someone a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes them a car. I don't agree with everything my church does but I don't think I ever will. I think that would be unrealistic for me to think that would be the case. My thought always comes back to if I don't like it what do I need to do to change it. If I don't have an answer then I need to stop complaining. Keep working on your relationship with Jesus and he will work on your relationships with others. Praying for you and with you. 

 

[aubiefifty 16,777]

2 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Fifty, there unfortunately are many people who go to church that don't act like Christians all of the time. If they were put on trial for being a Christian there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict them. Fellowship with other people who share your faith is good so maybe you haven't found the right church yet. Maybe you're not looking right now either and that's fine. A personal relationship with Jesus is what should be important to all who call themselves Christians. Sitting in church doesn't make someone a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes them a car. I don't agree with everything my church does but I don't think I ever will. I think that would be unrealistic for me to think that would be the case. My thought always comes back to if I don't like it what do I need to do to change it. If I don't have an answer then I need to stop complaining. Keep working on your relationship with Jesus and he will work on your relationships with others. Praying for you and with you. 

 

i am doing what i need to change it. i am sitting at home in protest. there are churches in anniston basically throwing shade on libs often without hiding their disdain. we are terrorists, commies, and godless. i have friends {ex friends} tell me to my face. same cat told me i was taking jesus out of context because i said he would feed the poor. also i tried to google it but when obama was first running for president some kids from a local church went out vandalizing cars with obama stickers. that is a fact but please check for yourself. now i am not saying it was sanctioned by the church but from what i remember they they did it right after attending some function they had.

  anyway i am checking out John Pavlovitz whom some call the devil. i have only listened to a small portion of one of his lectures so i am not sure i will agree with everything he says. but so far he pushes love for everyone and for us all to be more jesus like and i do like that.

   thanx for your caring. i guess i am saying too many folks mix their politics and religion together and i just do not trust that. shrugs. for the record i was baptized and a friend that is a preacher for the vineyard said because of that i will always be saved. if i was to go to church his would be it. they have couches, lots of music, preach nothing but love, and best of all they allow folks to bring their dogs with them.

[SaltyTiger 7,795]

9 hours ago, homersapien said:

The whole church thing is more about "fellowship"

"fellowship" to me, is getting together and no beer. I hate that word.

I love church so I go for the right reasons Brother Homer. 

[japantiger 4,051]

16 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Fifty, there unfortunately are many people who go to church that don't act like Christians all of the time. If they were put on trial for being a Christian there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict them. Fellowship with other people who share your faith is good so maybe you haven't found the right church yet. Maybe you're not looking right now either and that's fine. A personal relationship with Jesus is what should be important to all who call themselves Christians. Sitting in church doesn't make someone a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes them a car. I don't agree with everything my church does but I don't think I ever will. I think that would be unrealistic for me to think that would be the case. My thought always comes back to if I don't like it what do I need to do to change it. If I don't have an answer then I need to stop complaining. Keep working on your relationship with Jesus and he will work on your relationships with others. Praying for you and with you. 

 

This is a great response gr82be...and Fifty I do hope you can find a family of believers to share with.  The Bible starts off pretty early in Genesis with God saying it's not good for us to be alone.  Christian relationships  serve many purposes....they affect our destiny; in Proverbs for example we are called to walk with the wise as that will help make us wise.  The opposite is also made clear.  Most of John is about love and relationships; in relationships we receive love and encouragement.  And I believe even more importantly we are called/able to give love and encouragement.   In 1 Corinthians 12, we are called to be part of the body....and the body/person can't fulfill it's purpose if all parts of the body aren't connected.  In Romans in particular we are called to admonish, encourage and counsel "one another"....and that the holy spirit will show us the way (as Fifty points out above).  Life is full of relationships up and downs...let's hope you don't give up on them...God created us for fellowship and thru fellowship His will be done.   

[aubiefifty 16,777]

7 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Sorry you are alone but also glad you don't hate anyone.  If you notice I don't do long posts. At 80, the old fingers have arthritis so sometimes typing isn't easy. Peace brother.

thanx for caring proud but i have it made in so many ways. i do what i want to when i want to. i feel i am blessed in many ways. now that time i was sick and could not get out of bed for five days was scary because i could not get to the phone and no one checked on me. that part is kind of a downer but i have to expect it being mostly the loner i am. but since then i have reconnected with a couple of friends that check up on me if they do not hear from me every day. so all is well..........

[DKW 86 7,419]

On 7/21/2018 at 8:30 PM, gr82be said:

Fifty, there unfortunately are many people who go to church that don't act like Christians all of the time. If they were put on trial for being a Christian there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict them. Fellowship with other people who share your faith is good so maybe you haven't found the right church yet. Maybe you're not looking right now either and that's fine. A personal relationship with Jesus is what should be important to all who call themselves Christians. Sitting in church doesn't make someone a Christian anymore than sitting in a garage makes them a car. I don't agree with everything my church does but I don't think I ever will. I think that would be unrealistic for me to think that would be the case. My thought always comes back to if I don't like it what do I need to do to change it. If I don't have an answer then I need to stop complaining. Keep working on your relationship with Jesus and he will work on your relationships with others. Praying for you and with you. 

 

 

On 7/21/2018 at 1:27 PM, GiveEmElle said:

In “The Merchant of Venice,” Shakespeare’s character Antonio proclaimed,”The devil can cite scripture for  his purpose.” For centuries men have been using scripture to justify their actions. In America, the Bible or rather it’s teachings  have been used as a reason for genocide of Native peoples, a reason for slavery, and currently a reason to support an immoral Republican candidate. So many use the Bible as a tool of condemnation rather than the marvelous work of redemption that it truly is. And that to me is tragic and heartbreaking. That’s why it’s so important to know what the Bible says so that we aren’t deceived by false teachers who subvert God’s word. Just my 2 cents. 

These posts made my day. I have been in churches up until about age 1998, and then shifted again in 2007, that were "Religious" ruled nightmares. They cumulatively did more damage than good. They were awful to women and to minorities. Oh, they gave lip service to The Sermon on the Mount, but that was all. Those churches were driven by "Ole Brother So&So" thinking. They had zero to actually do with the bible. They were "Rule Making Conservative Country Clubs" posing as churches. God will deal with them as He said in Revelations. 

Since 1998, I have belonged to a basically a non-denom church that while almost baptist in doctrine, is radically liberal in caring for people and rehabbing those burned up the Religious Country Clubber Churches. We are about 3500 strong and we are changing Morgan County and North Alabama and Parts of Swaziland.  The old Conservative, Rule-minded, Non-Spiritually Led, Dead as a doornail churches have done so much damage to families and to the world. Most attend out of guilt than Love for Christ. 

Not all Churches are bad, but I tend to find that the churches that are spiritually led rather than Rule-led (Modern Pharisees) are usually non-denom and growing like wildfire. 

Test: If you do not LOOK FORWARD to Sunday morning, chances you are in the wrong church. We lift up others, and talk about the big wins during the week. Church should be THE reason we do what we do. It should be the source of enjoyment and light in our lives and the light we give to others. I am the most screwed up guy I know. But I pro-actively give to and serve a wonderful life-giving God. That makes all the difference.

[homersapien 11,370]

On 7/21/2018 at 10:01 PM, SaltyTiger said:

"fellowship" to me, is getting together and no beer. I hate that word.

I love church so I go for the right reasons Brother Homer. 

I didn't mean to imply fellowship was a poor reason to attend church.  In fact, it's the best reason.

Perhaps the only reason in aubiefifty's case.  It is in mine.

[AU64 10,122]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 3:24 PM, homersapien said:

I didn't mean to imply fellowship was a poor reason to attend church.  In fact, it's the best reason.

Perhaps the only reason in aubiefifty's case.  It is in mine.

One can certainly be religious and a Christian without attending church but the fellowship of a church is a good place to reinforce one's beliefs and share them with others and also find some support during difficult times. . 

JMO but unless you combine your religious beliefs with your fellowship you might as well be attending the Elks Club or Kiwanis.....where there is plenty of fellowship opportunity and people are also striving to do some good things with their time.    

[triangletiger 1,599]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 9:51 PM, aubiefifty said:

i am doing what i need to change it. i am sitting at home in protest. there are churches in anniston basically throwing shade on libs often without hiding their disdain. we are terrorists, commies, and godless. i have friends {ex friends} tell me to my face. same cat told me i was taking jesus out of context because i said he would feed the poor. also i tried to google it but when obama was first running for president some kids from a local church went out vandalizing cars with obama stickers. that is a fact but please check for yourself. now i am not saying it was sanctioned by the church but from what i remember they they did it right after attending some function they had.

  anyway i am checking out John Pavlovitz whom some call the devil. i have only listened to a small portion of one of his lectures so i am not sure i will agree with everything he says. but so far he pushes love for everyone and for us all to be more jesus like and i do like that.

   thanx for your caring. i guess i am saying too many folks mix their politics and religion together and i just do not trust that. shrugs. for the record i was baptized and a friend that is a preacher for the vineyard said because of that i will always be saved. if i was to go to church his would be it. they have couches, lots of music, preach nothing but love, and best of all they allow folks to bring their dogs with them.

I understand where you're coming from, @aubiefifty.  Truly, I do.  My mother professed to be a Christian (and I believe she truly did believe) and would sit at home by herself and read her Bible lesson.  Then she would commence to drinking Maker's Mark for the rest of the day until she passed out in a drunken stupor.  She struggled with depression and alcoholism for many years (with it getting worse and worse) until it finally killed her at age 58.  She would not go to church.  She cited the self-righteousness and judgementalism of church folks as her excuse (and there is some truth to that, but I believe mostly she didn't want to have to deal with her own sense of shame and didn't want to go through the effort of changing.  I implored her, with tears in my eyes, on many occasions to let me get her help, but she would always put me off - either denying that she had a problem or saying that she needed more time to be ready to change.  The last time I visited her in her home, she told be that she'd be ready in a month.  Three weeks later, she was in the hospital with liver failure and died  after a few days.  My second oldest son was 6 months old when my mother died.  I have 2 children that were born after she died.  It saddens me that my kids will never get to know their grandmother. 

I don't know your situation or if any of my story resonates with you, but I would encourage you to seek a body of genuine believers that you can get plugged into.  With that in mind, I have compiled a list of reasons to go to church.  The list is not exhaustive, but it's what I came up with after a little bit of thought.

• Relationship – we were made to be in relationship with God and with each other.  There are many aspects of this

  • Support – we can support each other during difficult times.  This can take many forms – financial/physical support (e.g., someone has lost a job, someone has large medical expenses,  someone’s home has been damaged due to fire or natural disaster, someone is physically incapacitated (either temporarily or permanently) and needs support with fulfilling basic needs (like transportation to the store or to church), emotional support (e.g., grief over the death or illness of a loved one, marital difficulties/divorce, parental difficulties), spiritual support (e.g., struggles with addiction or anger, praying for each other), or sometimes, we just need a smile, a friendly word, or a hug.

  • Accountability – we can hold each other accountable as we strive to become the people God has made us to be

  • Opportunity to get outside of ourselves and put the needs of others ahead of our own desires

  • Encouragement – sharing what’s going in our lives (the good and the bad) with each other gives us opportunities to encourage each other, support each other, and pray for each other.   It reminds us that we are not alone in our struggles and that our temporal trials will ultimately have a joyful end.  (Maybe this is covered by ‘support’, but I thought it was worthy of being singled out.)

  • Develop Friendships – allows the opportunity for social engagement.  We churchgoers do actually do fun stuff sometimes, too.

• Education/Discipleship/Personal Growth – increase in our knowledge of the Bible and its application in our lives, increase in our knowledge of theology and Christian apologetics (I Peter 3:15); increase in our ‘Christlikeness’ and spiritual maturity; get out of own bubble of thinking and have our own viewpoints/opinions challenged

• Opportunities to serve others – we can more effectively minister to others by combining our resources and abilities – this can be done on local, regional, national, or international level.  Also, we all have talents and skills that can be used to help within our own body of believers (musicians can  play/sing during worship services, builders/contractors can support maintenance or improvements of church buildings and grounds, accountants can support and develop church budget, etc.), we can also give financially to those in need

• Preparation and opportunities for evangelism – Jesus commands us to go and make disciple (i.e., The Great Commission  (Matthew 28:16-20)

• Opportunity to worship God and see Him working in the world

• It’s biblical – Hebrews 10:25 tells us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together    

 

[DKW 86 7,419]

Personally, when dealing with Christians I do not personally know, the first question I ask or listen for is the Religion versus Relationship Question. I have a Relationship with Christ. Religion asks only about what you do. Relationship asks Why do you do it?

I donate to good, well researched causes, usually sourced thru my church, because it honors God to do so.
I had several really nice Christian Friends go off to Bible College and come back literally destroyed with all the legalism they found there. One of the most prolific and wildly successful worship leaders I know was runoff from college because he left his check in a theater. Ran him out of college when the theater called to return his check book. 

Now, he is a great Man of God. Bears fruit all over the place on three continents. But he was run off from bible college over going to see ANY movie. They did not care what movie he saw, the college rules were attending ANY movie would get you expelled. Another friend, my old business partner and his wife, all they remember about about bible college was that standing on the grass, or wearing shorts, even for sports or to workout in, would get you demerits and enough demerits got you expelled. Off the top pof my head, I know at least 6 bible college burnouts. They went off to college on fire and came back shattered by all the legalism.

Relationships make people prosper, excel, bear fruit.
Religion kills on all kinds of levels.

[AU64 10,122]

thanks Triangle.....not an easy story for you to tell. 

Christians have all the personal weaknesses and problems of non-Christians.  We are all sinners in the eyes of God and there is no test of "worthiness" for those who want to change their lives through an involvement with a church family.  If you have a desire to  help the less fortunate in your community, a church  of about any denomination can provide an opportunity for you to do that....