Who would support a nationwide ban on abortion after 15 weeks that guarantees the right to abortion before then?

[TexasTiger 12,835]

Republicans in Congress are planning legislation that outlaws abortion after 15 weeks.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/24/politics/republican-reaction-abortion-congress/index.html

What if the bill also prevented states from outlawing abortion before 15 weeks and only allowed it after that time with two doctors agreeing the health of the mother warranted it? This is similar to the law in many European countries? 

If you’re opposed to abortion would you support this compromise? If you’re pro-choice would you support it?

[autigeremt 6,600]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Republicans in Congress are planning legislation that outlaws abortion after 15 weeks.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/24/politics/republican-reaction-abortion-congress/index.html

What if the bill also prevented states from outlawing abortion before 15 weeks and only allowed it after that time with two doctors agreeing the health of the mother warranted it? This is similar to the law in many European countries? 

If you’re opposed to abortion would you support this compromise? If you’re pro-choice would you support it?

As long as there's a prevision for rape/incest I would see this as a positive. 

[shabby 1,957]

How would this work if it takes 4 weeks just to schedule with a provider. I would be okay with a 15 week provision if scheduling the service was a that day kind of appointment.

[GoAU 1,600]

I would see that as a significant improvement.  
 

My personal views differ, but that wouldn’t prevent this sort of compromise.  

[creed 1,635]

That's a tough question for me to answer. I'm leaning I'm okay with it but still have some concerns. Obviously, my opinion is secondary to the woman's.

Month 4 (weeks 13 through 16)

The fetal heartbeat may now be audible through an instrument called a doppler. The fingers and toes are well-defined. Eyelids, eyebrows, eyelashes, nails and hair are formed. Teeth and bones become denser. The fetus can even suck his or her thumb, yawn, stretch and make faces.

The nervous system is starting to function. The reproductive organs and genitalia are now fully developed, and your doctor can see on ultrasound if the fetus will be designated male or female at birth.

By the end of the fourth month, the fetus is about 6 inches long and weighs about 4 ounces.

 

[AuCivilEng1 11,004]

I would be ok with that, if it took into account rape, incest, and the mothers life. But the overwhelming majority of abortions are performed earlier. Here a screenshot of the cdc statistics on that

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

3 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Republicans in Congress are planning legislation that outlaws abortion after 15 weeks.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/24/politics/republican-reaction-abortion-congress/index.html

What if the bill also prevented states from outlawing abortion before 15 weeks and only allowed it after that time with two doctors agreeing the health of the mother warranted it? This is similar to the law in many European countries? 

If you’re opposed to abortion would you support this compromise? If you’re pro-choice would you support it?

It’s a start..now if we can just the idiots in Washington to pull their heads out each other butts and compromise. 
 

Debating in my mind if 15 weeks should be shortened to say 10-12 weeks though. I mean if a woman plans on having an abortion I feel that decision needs to be made as early as possible. 

[DKW 86 7,419]

3 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Republicans in Congress are planning legislation that outlaws abortion after 15 weeks.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/06/24/politics/republican-reaction-abortion-congress/index.html

What if the bill also prevented states from outlawing abortion before 15 weeks and only allowed it after that time with two doctors agreeing the health of the mother warranted it? This is similar to the law in many European countries? 

If you’re opposed to abortion would you support this compromise? If you’re pro-choice would you support it?

 

3 hours ago, autigeremt said:

As long as there's a prevision for rape/incest I would see this as a positive. 

 

1 hour ago, GoAU said:

I would see that as a significant improvement.  
 

My personal views differ, but that wouldn’t prevent this sort of compromise.  

This is what should have happened 50 ******* years ago...

How much less arguing and hate would be in the US if we simply did this in 1973?

[GoAU 1,600]

8 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

 

 

This is what should have happened 50 ******* years ago...

How much less arguing and hate would be in the US if we simply did this in 1973?

So, so true

[AUDub 11,147]

18 hours ago, autigeremt said:

As long as there's a prevision for rape/incest I would see this as a positive. 

I don't think it would be too hard to find 2 psychiatrists to approve the abortion on the grounds that carrying a child conceived via incest or rape is psychologically perilous to the woman. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by AUDub

[TexasTiger 12,835]

14 minutes ago, AUDub said:

I don't think it would be too hard to find 2 psychiatrists to approve the abortion on the grounds that carrying a child conceived via incest or rape is psychologically perilous to the woman. 

The first 15 weeks, no doctor approval would be necessary.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

What say you @TitanTiger@icanthearyou@SaltyTiger@homersapien@CoffeeTiger?

[tgrogan21 6,198]

A compromise is needed in our country to pass anything. Just like the gun safety bill that just passed, both sides had to compromise and didn't get everything they wanted.

I would be okay with the 15 weeks because then it doesn't leave it in the state's hands where the red states will do everything in their power to ban abortions completely with no exceptions.

[AUDub 11,147]

32 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

The first 15 weeks, no doctor approval would be necessary.

Yeah but he's talking about adding exceptions. Think he's talking about after 15 weeks. 

[gr82be 14,423]

I believe rape and incest exceptions should be allowed. The "woman's body woman's choice" is a lame argument to me though. Unless it was rape, the woman already made a conscious choice knowing full well that she could get pregnant. Abortion shouldn't be that convenient just because the baby will be an inconvenience to the mother or father. 

[AUDub 11,147]

19 minutes ago, gr82be said:

I believe rape and incest exceptions should be allowed. The "woman's body woman's choice" is a lame argument to me though. Unless it was rape, the woman already made a conscious choice knowing full well that she could get pregnant. Abortion shouldn't be that convenient just because the baby will be an inconvenience to the mother or father. 

Just spitballing, but how about we do a better job as a society taking care of babies after they're born? After all, most abortions are for financial reasons.

Abortion won't actually go down until we address why women feel the need to abort on the first place. 

[gr82be 14,423]

14 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Just spitballing, but how about we do a better job as a society taking care of babies after they're born? After all, most abortions are for financial reasons.

Abortion won't actually go down until we address why women feel the need to abort on the first place. 

This was from an adoption website so it is as good as it's sources but the numbers provided are intriguing to me 

Some sources estimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. Based on this couples waiting to adopt statistic, many couples are waiting to adopt.

 

 

[Didba 5,256]

It's better than none at all

[Didba 5,256]

49 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Just spitballing, but how about we do a better job as a society taking care of babies after they're born? After all, most abortions are for financial reasons.

Abortion won't actually go down until we address why women feel the need to abort on the first place. 

Providing cheap contraception is a start. Alot of women I know start BC so they could be more regular or not have a period at all, the no babies thing was an incidental benefit.

[Didba 5,256]

1 hour ago, gr82be said:

I believe rape and incest exceptions should be allowed. The "woman's body woman's choice" is a lame argument to me though. Unless it was rape, the woman already made a conscious choice knowing full well that she could get pregnant. Abortion shouldn't be that convenient just because the baby will be an inconvenience to the mother or father. 

The main reason I cannot agree with this is because contraception can be impossible for some women of lower socioeconomic status to get on a consistent basis.

You have to choose between food/rent or BC/condoms, itsnan easy choice. Also, sex education is very bad/low in many places.

Did you know some women believe that using a tampon after unprotected sex will keep them from being pregnant? Abstinence only sex education leads to these beliefs. I mean I've met women that haven't even know basic genital physiology for men and women.

[CoffeeTiger 5,102]

Yeah, I'd be for a compromise like this. 

 

Not really much more for me to say on it since this just a thought exercise. The Republican party of today will NEVER  consider a bill that would legalize abortion nationally no matter the 'week' constraint or time limits. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[CoffeeTiger 5,102]

1 hour ago, gr82be said:

This was from an adoption website so it is as good as it's sources but the numbers provided are intriguing to me 

Some sources estimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. Based on this couples waiting to adopt statistic, many couples are waiting to adopt.

 

 

 

That has nothing to do with making America an easier place to raise a child. Adoption isn't the magic pill or excuse for why abortion shouldn't be legal. 

Many children in adoption and foster care have mental/phycological issues from being carried to term during pregnancies from mothers who didn't take care of their bodies, smoked, drank, didn't provide enough nourishment, etc. or from going years growing up without loving parents to nurture them. This sets them up for being harder to adopt and harder to properly grow and adapt into society when they grow into adults.  

Also there is the issue of abandonment that many adopted children deal with knowing that their original parents didn't want them and just gave them up. They spend a lot of their formative years without the love and care of their natural mother and parents. 

 

There may be 1-2 million people in the US waiting or wanting to adopt but that doesn't mean all of them are able/capable/or in a good position to adopt. Adoption agencies have a serious responsibility to ensure they aren't placing children with abusers, people who will give up the child again later, or people who aren't able to afford to raise the child and will lead to a bad standard of living for the child. 

 

Adoption is an imperfect solution....it shouldn't be what is encouraged and isn't a system that sets all children up for success and productive, healthy lives. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Didba said:

The main reason I cannot agree with this is because contraception can be impossible for some women of lower socioeconomic status to get on a consistent basis.

You have to choose between food/rent or BC/condoms, itsnan easy choice. Also, sex education is very bad/low in many places.

Did you know some women believe that using a tampon after unprotected sex will keep them from being pregnant? Abstinence only sex education leads to these beliefs. I mean I've met women that haven't even know basic genital physiology for men and women.

 

I distinctly remember in college a woman asking out loud which forms of birth control can prevent you from getting HIV. 

Our schools really fail in regards to sex education and in private households,  Especially in conservative/religious  households, sex and sex education is considered a very awkward and uncomfortable subject that many people don't want to really talk about. Many parents believe that as long as they drill into their kids to not to have sex until you marry your one life partner then everything else will work out fine. No need for sex education if you live your life by the Bible. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[AUDub 11,147]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

Providing cheap contraception is a start. Alot of women I know start BC so they could be more regular or not have a period at all, the no babies thing was an incidental benefit.

My wife and my oldest daughter are both on hormonal birth control due to very uncomfortable periods. 

[AUDub 11,147]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Our schools really fail in regards to sex education and in private households,  Especially in conservative/religious  households, sex and sex education is considered a very awkward and uncomfortable subject that many people don't want to really talk about. Many parents believe that as long as they drill into their kids to not to have sex until you marry your one life partner then everything else will work out fine. No need for sex education if you live your life by the Bible. 

In 2022 that's surprising. These days with the internet just about everyone knows the basics as a matter of course, at least.

In a household with heavily monitored internet I guess that could be the result, but unless the parents know what they're doing the kids can probably find a way around it. Just as an example, Duggar roundabouting the monitoring software his family put on his PCs,  Covenant Eyes, with a simple dual boot into a Linux partition. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by AUDub

[AUDub 11,147]

2 hours ago, gr82be said:

This was from an adoption website so it is as good as it's sources but the numbers provided are intriguing to me 

Some sources estimate that there are about 2 million couples currently waiting to adopt in the United States — which means there are as many as 36 waiting families for every one child who is placed for adoption. Based on this couples waiting to adopt statistic, many couples are waiting to adopt.

We could start by fixing that. Foster care in general is an absolute mess. But it doesn't really address the issue, as Coffee laid out.