Trump's income taxes were often paltry, newly released documents show

[aubiefifty 16,778]

Trump's income taxes were often paltry, newly released documents show

 

J. Scott Applewhite/AP Photo

Former President Donald Trump repeatedly paid little or nothing in federal income taxes between 2015 and 2020 despite reporting millions in earnings.

Documents released Tuesday night by House Democrats said Trump frequently made tens of millions of dollars annually during that period. But he was able to whittle away his tax bill by claiming steep business losses that offset that income.

In 2016, he paid $750. The following year he again paid just $750. In 2020, he paid nothing.

And though the IRS has a longstanding policy of automatically auditing every president, Democrats say the agency did not begin vetting Trump’s filings until they began asking about them in 2019.

Trump frequently claimed he was under continuous audits by the IRS to justify his refusal to voluntarily disclose his taxes, which snapped a longstanding tradition of presidents and White House contenders volunteering their returns.

The revelations, which came after House Democrats voted Tuesday to make Trump’s returns public, marks the culmination of the long-running mystery of what’s in his filings, something he’s fought for years in court to conceal. It promises to create yet another controversy for the scandal-plagued Trump, one that is sure to shadow his bid to return to the White House and raise uncomfortable questions for his fellow Republicans.

It also puts a spotlight on the IRS as well, including its recently departed commissioner, Chuck Rettig, and its promise to impartially administer the tax code.

At the same time, it is a last-minute victory for Democrats, particularly Ways and Means Committee Chairman Richard Neal, who waged a three-and-a-half year court battle for the returns but whose enthusiasm for the fight was often questioned by his party’s liberal wing.

Neal obtained the returns just last month, after the Supreme Court declined to block their release to him, and Democrats raced to get the information out before they slip into the minority in the House on Jan. 3.

Democrats said it would take some time to scrub the filings of Trump’s personal information, such as his Social Security number and addresses, but that the returns would be released in the coming days.

But Democrats asked the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan office of tax lawyers and economists that advises lawmakers on tax issues, to examine Trump’s filings and lawmakers released the agency’s findings along with their own report on the IRS audit system.

Though Trump has cultivated an image of a wildly successful businessman, and bragged about paying little in taxes, he appears to do that mostly by reporting big losses.

In 2015, JCT said, Trump reported making more than $50 million, through a combination of capital gains, interest, dividends and other earnings. That was offset though by more than $85 million in reported losses.

He was hit by the alternative minimum tax that year, a levy designed to make it harder for the rich to zero out their tax bills. It generated a $641,931 tax bill.

The following year he reported making $30 million but also claimed $60 million in losses. He was dinged again by the AMT that year, though he still ended up owing just $750.

In other years, Trump paid more. In 2018, he had far fewer losses to report and ended up paying $999,466.

JCT did not itself audit Trump’s returns and did not attempt to verify the numbers he reported. It criticized the IRS though for not more vigorously examining the filings.

The IRS has a policy dating to the Nixon administration of automatically vetting every president’s returns — something designed to both assure the public that the tax system is being administered equitably and also to spare the IRS from having to make politically fraught decisions over which presidents to audit.

Little is known publicly about how that process work. A 1998 law makes White House meddling in audits a felony.

Neal told reporters though he had not come across evidence that Trump had tried to influence the agency when it came to examining his taxes.

The super-rich are typically subject to relatively high audit rates. The IRS says it examined 8.7 percent of those who made more than $10 million in 2019.

People in the top 0.01 percent of incomes, making more than $7.4 million in 2020, paid an average tax rate of 25.1 percent. The average rate that year for everyone was 13.6 percent.

Earlier this year, President Joe Biden reported paying 24.6 percent.

It is highly unusual for lawmakers to forcibly release private tax information, and Trump was not legally required to disclose his taxes.

But he defied a decades-old tradition of presidents volunteering their filings, incensing congressional Democrats who seized his returns under a century-old law allowing the chairs of Congress’s tax committees to examine anyone’s private tax information.

Many Democrats said the public not only had a right to know about Trump’s finances, they also said they wanted to know how vigorously the IRS was questioning the president’s returns.

Republicans scoffed, saying Democrats were simply looking for ways to embarrass Trump and warned Neal’s move would create a precedent that could be used against other people.

Democrats got his personal returns as well as a handful of business filings from 2015 to 2020 — mostly coinciding with Trump’s time in office.

Some said Democrats did not demand to see enough of Trump’s records, arguing they should have asked for more from previous years, before he was running for president, that could have still been under audit when he came to the White House.

Democrats’ impending release of the returns will create an opportunity for a crowdsourced audit, with outside tax experts eager to weigh in, something Trump confidante Michael Cohen told Congress in 2019 that Trump feared if they ever became public.

“What he didn’t want was to have an entire group of think tanks that are tax experts run through his tax returns and start ripping it to pieces, and then he’ll end up in an audit and he’ll ultimately have taxable consequences, penalties and so on,” Cohen said.

[homersapien 11,371]

Wonder what the average MAGA's tax bill was.  Maybe this will get them to thinking.  (Naaaaah.)

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Y'all still obsessed with how much he paid? Looking through the report it looks like he just used the code to his advantage.

I am not saying it is right for the super rich to be able to do this, but I can't blame him for taking advantage of the rules....the rules the elites put in place to benefit themselves. 

[SaltyTiger 7,795]

30 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Wonder what the average MAGA's tax bill was.  Maybe this will get them to thinking.  (Naaaaah.)

Naaaaaah is absolutely right. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

I'm sure all the Republicans who oppose funding the IRS will put 2+2 together in their heads and think "wait...why do all these rich Conservatives that hate the IRS and want to defund it also simultaneously pay almost no taxes and take advantage of the tax codes in ways people like me with my income and income sources aren't able to?"

 

Its almost like wealthy people benefit from a weak, understaffed IRS that only has the resources to do quick and easy audits on poor/middle class people. 

[homersapien 11,371]

48 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Naaaaaah is absolutely right. 

Frankly, I doubt most of them will even be aware of it.

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

4 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I'm sure all the Republicans who oppose funding the IRS will put 2+2 together in their heads and think "wait...why do all these rich Conservatives that hate the IRS and want to defund it also simultaneously pay almost no taxes and take advantage of the tax codes in ways people like me with my income and income sources aren't able to?"

 

Its almost like wealthy people benefit from a weak, understaffed IRS that only has the resources to do quick and easy audits on poor/middle class people. 

Another misread.  You are fully capable of taking advantage of income tax loop holes that are written in the code.  All you have to do is hire a tax lawyer and let him/her act in your stead.  Now, if this is not fiscally warranted, then go with the Turbo Tax and hope for the best when the 87,000 IRS agents come after you.

Rich people are taking advantage of the tax code that has changes every so often and their lawyers are on top of it.  The rest of us are just blowing in the wind.

Keep in mind nothing will change until the tax code changes and that takes an act of Congress (rich people).

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

Y'all still obsessed with how much he paid? Looking through the report it looks like he just used the code to his advantage.

I am not saying it is right for the super rich to be able to do this, but I can't blame him for taking advantage of the rules....the rules the elites put in place to benefit themselves. 

Thank God you were able to analyze his taxes for a second and determine it was all legal and above board. 

Whenever I take illegal deductions on my taxes I always write into the margins that these deductions are not legal or i highlight them in red marker so if anyone ever reads my taxes they'd be able to easily and quickly identify the fraud.

Edited December 21, 2022 by CoffeeTiger

[homersapien 11,371]

34 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Another misread.  You are fully capable of taking advantage of income tax loop holes that are written in the code.  All you have to do is hire a tax lawyer and let him/her act in your stead.  Now, if this is not fiscally warranted, then go with the Turbo Tax and hope for the best when the 87,000 IRS agents come after you.

Rich people are taking advantage of the tax code that has changes every so often and their lawyers are on top of it.  The rest of us are just blowing in the wind.

Keep in mind nothing will change until the tax code changes and that takes an act of Congress (rich people).

"87,000 IRS agents come after you"?  

You sabotage your own arguments - as flimsy as they are - with such twisted partisan nonsense. 

[homersapien 11,371]

28 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Thank God you were able to analyze his taxes for a second and determine it was all legal and above board. 

Whenever I take illegal deductions on my taxes I always write into the margins that these deductions are not legal or i highlight them in red marker so if anyone ever reads my taxes they'd be able to easily and quickly identify the fraud.

Yeah, you'd think that if the strategies producing such outcomes were actually and fully legal, we'd hear a lot more reporting on them - if only from the "fake news" mass media.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

Just now, homersapien said:

"87,000 IRS agents come after you"?  

You sabotage your own arguments - as flimsy as they are - with such twisted partisan nonsense. 

Do you think the 87,000 IRS agents are coming after the rich?  The ones that have tax lawyers to keep them out of trouble.  It Biden wants to tax the rich he is going to have to change the tax code, he hasn’t yet.  One would think he would have to do that first, otherwise its just window dressing.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

26 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Thank God you were able to analyze his taxes for a second and determine it was all legal and above board. 

Whenever I take illegal deductions on my taxes I always write into the margins that these deductions are not legal or i highlight them in red marker so if anyone ever reads my taxes they'd be able to easily and quickly identify the fraud.

Funny.....that document says certain areas should be looked into to make sure its done legally. Right now there isn't much other than folks like yourself sitting back just hoping they find something.

If he took illegal deductions then you do something about it. 

 

[homersapien 11,371]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

Do you think the 87,000 IRS agents are coming after the rich?  The ones that have tax lawyers to keep them out of trouble.  It Biden wants to tax the rich he is going to have to change the tax code, he hasn’t yet.  One would think he would have to do that first, otherwise its just window dressing.

"87,000 agents coming after after you" is clearly a Republican talking point - also known as propaganda or "fake news". 

(But knowing your penchant for right wing conspiracies, I'm hardly surprised you bought into it hook, line and sinker.)

So for your benefit, here's an article that gives a more accurate and reasoned explanation of the effects the "Inflation Reduction Act" has on the IRS:

https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605107/new-irs-agents-and-the-inflation-reduction-act

 

As for Biden's intentions for modifying the tax code, I haven't delved into it.  But I seriously doubt he can make any changes - such as "taxing the rich (more)" without passing legislation. Speaking of which, as I recall, it's was Trump and the Republicans who passed the last tax legislation, and it sure as hell wasn't aimed at having the rich pay more, just the opposite.

 

 

[homersapien 11,371]

12 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Funny.....that document says certain areas should be looked into to make sure its done legally. Right now there isn't much other than folks like yourself sitting back just hoping they find something.

If he took illegal deductions then you do something about it. 

 

First, you have a strange sense of humor.

And faith for that matter.  If someone as rich as Trump can produce a legal tax return that results in taxes that low, then it will be a  virtual miracle of legal strategy, IMO. (But I'm no lawyer.)

But I suppose you could be right, at least in theory.  If so, maybe that will be the emphasis to force an overhaul of the tax laws.

Edited December 21, 2022 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

As for Biden's intentions for modifying the tax code, I haven't delved into it.  But I seriously doubt he can make any changes - such as "taxing the rich (more)" without passing legislation. Speaking of which, as I recall, it's was Trump and the Republicans who passed the last tax legislation, and it sure as hell wasn't aimed at having the rich pay more, just the opposite.

If he can’t make any changes; why so many IRS agents?  They can’t all be for retirement and attrition.  The tax lawyers have the code down pretty well, so what are these agents that are going to focus on compliance going to do?

Biden is good at saying something that will get the emotion up, but falls short on follow through.  How’s that student loan relief thing going?

[wdefromtx 3,159]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

First, you have a strange sense of humor.

And faith for that matter.  If someone as rich as Trump can produce a legal tax return that results in taxes that low, then it will be a  virtual miracle of legal strategy, IMO. (But I'm no lawyer.)

But I suppose you could be right, at least in theory.  If so, maybe that will be the emphasis to force an overhaul of the tax laws.

I guess I do have more faith in this matter...........the IRS is the one entity that is going to get their money one way or another. So if he did commit tax fraud it will come out. If he does any time or anything is another matter. 

 

[homersapien 11,371]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

If he can’t make any changes; why so many IRS agents?  They can’t all be for retirement and attrition.  The tax lawyers have the code down pretty well, so what are these agents that are going to focus on compliance going to do?

Biden is good at saying something that will get the emotion up, but falls short on follow through.  How’s that student loan relief thing going?

 Biden didn't make changes.  The legislation he sponsored made changes.  Those changes were presumably based on an analysis of what the IRS required after years of neglect. 

(And I suspect the term "agents" is being used deliberately to spin these personnel needs in order to make them seem threatening. "Employees" is probably a more accurate term for the sake of this discussion.)

And as the bill makes clear, some portion of these employees are needed to address general administration needs.  Another portion ("agents"/"auditors"?) will be dedicated to increasing audits and/or increasing general compliance with the tax code - which I think was estimated in excess of $200 billion dollars.  I support that, as should any patriotic American citizen.  I don't like supporting rich free-loaders.

I don't like paying taxes either (especially since I am now at the mandatory disbursement phase of my portfolio).  And while I haven't been audited, I certainly don't want to be.

But paying one's taxes is our patriotic and legal duty - it's the dues for living in a democracy.  And one can avoid the pain of an audit by keeping good records and following the law.

(While off subject, last I heard the student loan "thing" is in the courts, because of lawsuits presented by opponents, likely Republicans.)

Finally, I think Biden has done a pretty good job in following through campaign promises and/or delivering needed results - certainly better than TFG.

Edited December 21, 2022 by homersapien

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

14 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

If he can’t make any changes; why so many IRS agents?  They can’t all be for retirement and attrition.  The tax lawyers have the code down pretty well, so what are these agents that are going to focus on compliance going to do?

 

you seriously think rich people don’t alter their finances to illegally dodge taxes? You don’t think they don’t take illegal deductions or route money through ‘zombie’ companies or through other countries to dodge taxes? 
 

you think every rich person that has a ‘tax lawyer’ is playing by the rules and would have no reason to be audited? 
 Really? 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I support that, as should any patriotic American citizen.

Paying your fair share is a duty, paying more than that is stupid.

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

(While off subject, last I heard the student loan "thing" is in the courts, because of lawsuits presented by opponents, likely Republicans.)

It’s in court because Biden has no authority to forgive those loans.  That has to come from congress if they want to increase the debt by $600 billion which would increase taxes.

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Finally, I think Biden has done a pretty good job in following through campaign promises and/or delivering needed results

Totally disagree.

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

41 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Funny.....that document says certain areas should be looked into to make sure its done legally. Right now there isn't much other than folks like yourself sitting back just hoping they find something.

If he took illegal deductions then you do something about it. 

 

I don’t ‘hope’ for any outcome. I don’t know if he cheated on his taxes or not, but I am curious as to why he fought tooth and nail and paid likely millions of dollars in legal fees to try and keep his taxes from the eyes of congress and the public. The only President to do so. 
 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

3 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

you seriously think rich people don’t alter their finances to illegally dodge taxes? You don’t think they don’t take illegal deductions or route money through ‘zombie’ companies or through other countries to dodge taxes? 
 

you think every rich person that has a ‘tax lawyer’ is playing by the rules and would have no reason to be audited? 
 Really? 

 

No, but they are vey good at finding loopholes in the tax codes.  There are firms that are very creative in that pursuit.  You can tell.  If you ask what is 2+2 they will reply; “what do you want it to be”.  You want to see an amateur see FTX, they were using Quick Books for their accounting firm.

[homersapien 11,371]

36 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I guess I do have more faith in this matter...........the IRS is the one entity that is going to get their money one way or another. So if he did commit tax fraud it will come out. If he does any time or anything is another matter. 

 

Let's keep in mind that it's not their (the IRS's) money. It's our money.  As a democracy, it's the way we fund our government.

But as someone who's financial wealth is fully documented in IRA accounts, I do appreciate your sentiment.   There's no way of my avoiding paying taxes on it, although my wife (in particular) and I both plan to avoid as much tax as possible by contributing to qualified charities.

In fact, we are getting ready to pay good money for an estate attorney to help us along the way.

[homersapien 11,371]

50 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Paying your fair share is a duty, paying more than that is stupid.

 

Does a $0 to $750 tax bill for Trump sound "fair" to you? 

Are you OK with a system of tax laws that would allow for that to be a legal ("fair") outcome?

I'm fine with determining if Trump paid his "fair share".   Let's see if he fully complied with the law.  

It least, it will reveal Trump as the cheat we all know he is.  At the most, it will reveal and publicize the inequities in our tax law.

Presumably, you do remember what Trump said about paying taxes?

https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/trump-not-paying-taxes-makes-me-smart/507-554c5121-313c-4228-9751-53479c65176a

Edited December 21, 2022 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,371]

28 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

It’s in court because Biden has no authority to forgive those loans.  That has to come from congress if they want to increase the debt by $600 billion which would increase taxes.

Too bad they didn't just consult you.  Could have saved a lot of judicial time.

 

28 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Totally disagree.

Of course you do.  You're a conspiracist with a serious case of BDS.

[I_M4_AU 7,810]

26 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Does a $0 to $750 tax bill for Trump sound "fair" to you? 

Are you OK with a system of tax laws that would allow for that to be a legal ("fair") outcome?

I'm fine with determining if Trump paid his "fair share".   Let's see if he fully complied with the law.  

It least, it will reveal Trump as the cheat we all know he is.  At the most, it will reveal and publicize the inequities in our tax law.

Presumably, you do remember what Trump said about paying taxes?

https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/trump-not-paying-taxes-makes-me-smart/507-554c5121-313c-4228-9751-53479c65176a

Exactly right.  If he broke no law he is smarter than the rest of us.  If he broke the law he pays the price, which will be paying more tax.  The tax returns have been in the IRS’ hands for years now, he has been audited and these, as I understand it, his returns that are settled as complete.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean the he didn’t pay his legal and fair taxes.  If it reveals and publicizes the inequities of our tax law then have Biden do something about it.

It’s pretty simle.